Francis Scott Key Bridge (I-695) complete collapse after large ship hits it

[wdcrft63]

The name will almost certainly be changed. Francis Scott Key was a slave owner, and he was also a lawyer who fought to preserve slavery in court. On the other side of that, Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass were both born (as slaves) in Maryland.

[vdeane]

To the first question, I would hope yes, but then again, (1) it is not an Interstate albeit signed as one (officially MD-695), and (2) MDTA just built the new Nice Bridge with microscopic shoulders, so I wouldn't bet on it.

To the second question, (1) traffic counts really don't justify it (3x,000 AADT is pretty low, especially in MD), and (2) see above  for MDTA's value engineering history.

Also, (3) the less the difference between the footprint of the new bridge and the footprint of the old bridge, the simpler the environmental approval process is (especially as this is an emergency replacement, so there are waivers to many requirements if they rebuild largely in kind).

[Rothman]

I've been hearing stories that the new bridge will not be named the Francis Scott Key Bridge due to a second verse of his poem that became our nation's anthem. Apparently the song we recite at ball games etc, has more lyrics to it that we never sing as well as even know about.

I don't know what they are as it's news to me that the anthem even had another verse. However MD lawmakers are listening to public opinion already not to rename the bridge its existing name.

Pfft.  Hymnals contain all verses of the anthem.

[hotdogPi]

It's the third verse of the Star-Spangled Banner that's controversial, not the second.

[ilpt4u]

I've been hearing stories that the new bridge will not be named the Francis Scott Key Bridge due to a second verse of his poem that became our nation's anthem. Apparently the song we recite at ball games etc, has more lyrics to it that we never sing as well as even know about.

I don't know what they are as it's news to me that the anthem even had another verse. However MD lawmakers are listening to public opinion already not to rename the bridge its existing name.

The "song"/tune is older than Key's poem that is sang to the tune.

I was taught in HS music/band class that the song is an old British drinking song, of all things. I've done some quick google checks when bored...apparently during the Revolutionary War period, there were differing lyrics to the tune for the Crown Loyalists and the Rebels->Patriots

I've never done a deep dive into the history of the tune, tho. No idea how old it actually is

[roadman65]

It's like the song My Maryland is the tune of the Christmas Carol   O Tannenbaum. They write lyrics and apply them to old songs.

Even the Christmas song isn't original as it was originally "Lauriger Horatius" the melody of.

[ran4sh]

It's like the song My Maryland is the tune of the Christmas Carol   O Tannenbaum. They write lyrics and apply them to old songs.

And "The Red Flag" as well, which is the anthem of a political party in the UK.

[Rothman]

If you want a controversial song, try "My Old Kentucky Home."

[1995hoo]

I've been hearing stories that the new bridge will not be named the Francis Scott Key Bridge due to a second verse of his poem that became our nation's anthem. Apparently the song we recite at ball games etc, has more lyrics to it that we never sing as well as even know about.

I don't know what they are as it's news to me that the anthem even had another verse. However MD lawmakers are listening to public opinion already not to rename the bridge its existing name.

I doubt it'll surprise anyone to hear that I know the words to all four verses.

If you've never heard the whole anthem performed and you have eleven minutes, here you go.

[webny99]

I can't seem to find what the controversy about that verse is though. For example, the Wikipedia article about the song doesn't mention any lyrics being controversial.

Towards the bottom of the wikipedia article there's a Protests section where it's covered in quite a bit of detail.

The name will almost certainly be changed. Francis Scott Key was a slave owner, and he was also a lawyer who fought to preserve slavery in court. On the other side of that, Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass were both born (as slaves) in Maryland.

There is already a bridge named after Frederick Douglass, not in Maryland though.

[davewiecking]

I can't seem to find what the controversy about that verse is though. For example, the Wikipedia article about the song doesn't mention any lyrics being controversial.

Towards the bottom of the wikipedia article there's a Protests section where it's covered in quite a bit of detail.

The name will almost certainly be changed. Francis Scott Key was a slave owner, and he was also a lawyer who fought to preserve slavery in court. On the other side of that, Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass were both born (as slaves) in Maryland.

There is already a bridge named after Frederick Douglass, not in Maryland though.

There's one a lot closer: the bridge in DC previously known as the South Capital St. Bridge. But still not in MD. Nothing wrong with more than one structure being named after someone.

[1995hoo]

^^^^

The old bridge in DC was also known as the Frederick Douglass Memorial Bridge; it received that name in 1965. As you note, when it opened in 1950 it was the South Capitol Street Bridge.

[Henry]

It's like the song My Maryland is the tune of the Christmas Carol   O Tannenbaum. They write lyrics and apply them to old songs.

And "The Red Flag" as well, which is the anthem of a political party in the UK.

Then we have My Country, Tis of Thee, which is basically an Americanized version of God Save the King/Queen.

Also, Greensleeves lent its tune to the Christmas carol What Child is This?

I've been hearing stories that the new bridge will not be named the Francis Scott Key Bridge due to a second verse of his poem that became our nation's anthem. Apparently the song we recite at ball games etc, has more lyrics to it that we never sing as well as even know about.

I don't know what they are as it's news to me that the anthem even had another verse. However MD lawmakers are listening to public opinion already not to rename the bridge its existing name.

The name will almost certainly be changed. Francis Scott Key was a slave owner, and he was also a lawyer who fought to preserve slavery in court. On the other side of that, Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass were both born (as slaves) in Maryland.

If the new bridge won't be called the Francis Scott Key Bridge, what other name could it be? And is there a similar movement in DC to rename its own Key Bridge?

[ixnay]

I can't seem to find what the controversy about that verse is though. For example, the Wikipedia article about the song doesn't mention any lyrics being controversial.

Towards the bottom of the wikipedia article there's a Protests section where it's covered in quite a bit of detail.

The name will almost certainly be changed. Francis Scott Key was a slave owner, and he was also a lawyer who fought to preserve slavery in court. On the other side of that, Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass were both born (as slaves) in Maryland.

There is already a bridge named after Frederick Douglass, not in Maryland though.

There's one a lot closer: the bridge in DC previously known as the South Capital St. Bridge. But still not in MD. Nothing wrong with more than one structure being named after someone.

Besides the Douglass Bridge in DC (and the one in Rochester [shared with Miss Anthony] and the one on MD 528 on the way from Denton to Easton, and the highway MD 33 between Easton and Tilghman Island), the new Amtrak tunnel nw of dt Baltimore (when it eventually happens) will have Fred's name.

[wdcrft63]

Thurgood Marshall, the Supreme Court justice, was born in Baltimore.

[Rothman]

Thurgood Marshall, the Supreme Court justice, was born in Baltimore.

See airport...

[cockroachking]

There's always Spiro Agnew...

[/sarcasm]

[roadman65]

Basically we are going through a change in demographics. The same demographics that define popular music and radio format is happening.  It's just you got a change in culture to go with it either due to technology or the fact we have other things that are out there that are making the race evolve.

I'm not going to speculate about the other things as there are way too many theories and explanations. My good friend told me once to just live your live and trust that in our old age, children's or grandchildren's lives we will see it get stabilized. Right now there is way too much important stuff to tend to than to theorize on what is the blame ( or who to blame)as there are more theories out there than there are people in the world so it seems.

That's why I ignore social media because too many theorizing on what's happening in this world on that.

[Rothman]

Basically we are going through a change in demographics. The same demographics that define popular music and radio format is happening.  It's just you got a change in culture to go with it either due to technology or the fact we have other things that are out there that are making the race evolve.

I'm not going to speculate about the other things as there are way too many theories and explanations. My good friend told me once to just live your live and trust that in our old age, children's or grandchildren's lives we will see it get stabilized. Right now there is way too much important stuff to tend to than to theorize on what is the blame ( or who to blame)as there are more theories out there than there are people in the world so it seems.

That's why I ignore social media because too many theorizing on what's happening in this world on that.

Wut.

[kalvado]

Basically we are going through a change in demographics. The same demographics that define popular music and radio format is happening.  It's just you got a change in culture to go with it either due to technology or the fact we have other things that are out there that are making the race evolve.

I'm not going to speculate about the other things as there are way too many theories and explanations. My good friend told me once to just live your live and trust that in our old age, children's or grandchildren's lives we will see it get stabilized. Right now there is way too much important stuff to tend to than to theorize on what is the blame ( or who to blame)as there are more theories out there than there are people in the world so it seems.

That's why I ignore social media because too many theorizing on what's happening in this world on that.

Wut.

In simple words:
Old farts like us are used to work.
 So - Go and do your work, let younger guys take care of the rest. You'll be fine, don't worry.

[Rothman]

Basically we are going through a change in demographics. The same demographics that define popular music and radio format is happening.  It's just you got a change in culture to go with it either due to technology or the fact we have other things that are out there that are making the race evolve.

I'm not going to speculate about the other things as there are way too many theories and explanations. My good friend told me once to just live your live and trust that in our old age, children's or grandchildren's lives we will see it get stabilized. Right now there is way too much important stuff to tend to than to theorize on what is the blame ( or who to blame)as there are more theories out there than there are people in the world so it seems.

That's why I ignore social media because too many theorizing on what's happening in this world on that.

Wut.

In simple words:
Old farts like us are used to work.
 So - Go and do your work, let younger guys take care of the rest. You'll be fine, don't worry.

And how is this related to the Key Bridge?

Kind of a convoluted way to just say, "I disagree with younger generations on what is offensive and what isn't, but I'm not going to let them bother me."

[Alex]

Until there is something formal announced about a name change for a replacement bridge, let's move on from that speculation, Francis Scott Key's legacy, and also philosophical concepts involving demographics.

[RobbieL2415]

Rename it to the George Herman Ruth Bridge.

The Babe was born in Baltimore.

[kalvado]

Rename it to the George Herman Ruth Bridge.

The Babe was born in Baltimore.

Step 1: rebuild the bridge...