What Vehicle is more entitled on the Road

Started by Tonytone, October 25, 2018, 02:32:33 PM

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cjk374

Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road.  Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.

Very good point. I have seen towns along the KCS's Vicksburg Subdivision (where my hometown is located) call the railroad and request a curfew (usually a couple of hours on average) to allow a parade to go through town and not be interrupted.
Runnin' roads and polishin' rails.


abefroman329

Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 11:16:40 AM
Quote from: sparker on November 20, 2018, 02:36:06 AM
Besides La Grange, other cities with significant main-line street trackage include Oakland, CA (UP/Amtrak), Fresno, CA (BNSF/Amtrak), and Monongahela, PA (CSX).  A famous/infamous relatively long (about 2 miles) stretch of CSX in Lafayette, IN featured main line street running before 2004; a bypass was completed at that time.

Also commuter rail in Michigan City, IN–including a station stop on the sidewalk.
Quaint as it is, they really want to get rid of the street running in Michigan City. The SS alignment along the Toll Road replaced street running through Gary.

kphoger

Quote from: cjk374 on November 21, 2018, 06:39:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road.  Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.

Very good point. I have seen towns along the KCS's Vicksburg Subdivision (where my hometown is located) call the railroad and request a curfew (usually a couple of hours on average) to allow a parade to go through town and not be interrupted.

I've had to sit stopped on an Amtrak train that was already running late, because a small town in northwestern Indiana couldn't pause their parade for like two minutes.  So instead, we waited for the end of the parade.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

hotdogPi

Quote from: kphoger on November 21, 2018, 01:05:21 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 21, 2018, 06:39:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road.  Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.

Very good point. I have seen towns along the KCS's Vicksburg Subdivision (where my hometown is located) call the railroad and request a curfew (usually a couple of hours on average) to allow a parade to go through town and not be interrupted.

I've had to sit stopped on an Amtrak train that was already running late, because a small town in northwestern Indiana couldn't pause their parade for like two minutes.  So instead, we waited for the end of the parade.

It changed a few years ago, but it used to be that Amtrak trains had priority over freight trains unless they were an hour or more late. The rationale was that Amtrak would rather have most on time and a few very late than have most of them slightly late.

Not sure about parades, though.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

kphoger

Quote from: 1 on November 21, 2018, 01:10:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 21, 2018, 01:05:21 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 21, 2018, 06:39:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road.  Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.

Very good point. I have seen towns along the KCS's Vicksburg Subdivision (where my hometown is located) call the railroad and request a curfew (usually a couple of hours on average) to allow a parade to go through town and not be interrupted.

I've had to sit stopped on an Amtrak train that was already running late, because a small town in northwestern Indiana couldn't pause their parade for like two minutes.  So instead, we waited for the end of the parade.

It changed a few years ago, but it used to be that Amtrak trains had priority over freight trains unless they were an hour or more late. The rationale was that Amtrak would rather have most on time and a few very late than have most of them slightly late.

Not sure about parades, though.

It was a decision made between the engineer and the mayor, IIRC.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

abefroman329

Quote from: kphoger on November 21, 2018, 01:59:50 PM
Quote from: 1 on November 21, 2018, 01:10:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 21, 2018, 01:05:21 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 21, 2018, 06:39:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road.  Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.

Very good point. I have seen towns along the KCS's Vicksburg Subdivision (where my hometown is located) call the railroad and request a curfew (usually a couple of hours on average) to allow a parade to go through town and not be interrupted.

I've had to sit stopped on an Amtrak train that was already running late, because a small town in northwestern Indiana couldn't pause their parade for like two minutes.  So instead, we waited for the end of the parade.

It changed a few years ago, but it used to be that Amtrak trains had priority over freight trains unless they were an hour or more late. The rationale was that Amtrak would rather have most on time and a few very late than have most of them slightly late.

Not sure about parades, though.

It was a decision made between the engineer and the mayor, IIRC.
I guess you really can't fight City Hall.

mrsman

#106
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 21, 2018, 08:15:19 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 11:16:40 AM
Quote from: sparker on November 20, 2018, 02:36:06 AM
Besides La Grange, other cities with significant main-line street trackage include Oakland, CA (UP/Amtrak), Fresno, CA (BNSF/Amtrak), and Monongahela, PA (CSX).  A famous/infamous relatively long (about 2 miles) stretch of CSX in Lafayette, IN featured main line street running before 2004; a bypass was completed at that time.

Also commuter rail in Michigan City, IN—including a station stop on the sidewalk.
Quaint as it is, they really want to get rid of the street running in Michigan City. The SS alignment along the Toll Road replaced street running through Gary.

Here's a picture along Oakland CA's stretch with an Amtrak train.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7957325,-122.277994,3a,75y,345.77h,83.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2ckBfznSiHDdrTsraZ6W8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And let's not forget Ashland, VA:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7604093,-77.4809696,3a,75y,148.25h,92.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYy1xUQOxCX47Kk9ih3EJPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


But at some point perhaps there is a distinction to be made between mainline tracks that are right down the middle of the street (Oakland, La Grange, Michigan City) vs. those that are in a median or otherwise curb-separated (Fresno, Ashland).  La Grange is particularly unique as the RR tracks are along a driving lane, not even a painted median like in Oakland and Michigan City.  I imagine traffic must simply move to the other way when a train is coming.  Fortunately, it appears that Main St in La Grange does not get much traffic and this can be done with ease. 

And of course, determining the difference between a mainline track and a secondary without much train traffic.  There are plenty of examples of secondaries, but they may not get enough train traffic to warrant a mention and the train traffic will move slowly.

sparker

^^^^^^^^^
When I was living part-time ("commuter" marriage) in Fresno in the early '80's, the (then) Santa Fe/Amtrak line ran right down the middle of a couple of streets north of the depot; it wasn't until around the turn of the century that the configuration was changed to place the tracks on their own ROW next to a narrowed street.  IIRC, the RR speed limit was 25 for passenger trains and 15 for freights for the street-running portion. 

Bruce

The worst offenders that I encounter normally on city streets are those armored money vans that pick up from businesses. They'll park wherever they want, cut off people, and get aggressive if you try to call them out. All in the name of "security".

ipeters61

Quote from: Bruce on November 24, 2018, 10:41:30 PM
The worst offenders that I encounter normally on city streets are those armored money vans that pick up from businesses. They'll park wherever they want, cut off people, and get aggressive if you try to call them out. All in the name of "security".
"My truck is made of pure iron so GET OUT OF MY WAY!"
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on my posts on the AARoads Forum are my own and do not represent official positions of my employer.
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kphoger

Quote from: ipeters61 on November 25, 2018, 11:20:12 AM
"My truck is made of pure iron so GET OUT OF MY WAY!"

That reminds me of the time in high school some of us friends decided to go cruising in a guy's grandma's 1955 Ford.  We were out in the country, and we told him he should be careful of deer.  His response:

I'm driving two tons of steel with no power steering.  I dare a deer to jump out in front of me!
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

SSOWorld

Buy a diesel truck, modify it, then spit the exhaust on some poor unsuspecting green car.

Large cities have heavily put bikes at the top of the order via the installation of bike lanes.  They've also heavily discriminated against UTVs (think Polaris Ranger) and ATVs (4-wheelers). 
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

ipeters61

Quote from: kphoger on November 25, 2018, 04:19:50 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on November 25, 2018, 11:20:12 AM
"My truck is made of pure iron so GET OUT OF MY WAY!"

That reminds me of the time in high school some of us friends decided to go cruising in a guy's grandma's 1955 Ford.  We were out in the country, and we told him he should be careful of deer.  His response:

I'm driving two tons of steel with no power steering.  I dare a deer to jump out in front of me!
That just made me think of last week when I was driving the state van (for work) and it was literally the first time I ever saw a deer on the road, thankfully in the shoulder, on the ramp from MD-32 West to US-1 North.

Quote from: SSOWorld on November 25, 2018, 04:45:17 PM
Buy a diesel truck, modify it, then spit the exhaust on some poor unsuspecting green car.
And make sure it sounds like you're driving an 18-wheeler carrying bricks of lead under a full load, so the entire city can hear.
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on my posts on the AARoads Forum are my own and do not represent official positions of my employer.
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abefroman329

Quote from: SSOWorld on November 25, 2018, 04:45:17 PM
Buy a diesel truck, modify it, then spit the exhaust on some poor unsuspecting green car.
Or you could just write "I'm a tool"  on the tailgate and save yourself a lot of trouble.
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 25, 2018, 04:45:17 PMLarge cities have heavily put bikes at the top of the order via the installation of bike lanes.
No, they're just ensuring bicyclists can get around the city without being killed, and motorists can easily get around the city without killing anyone, via the installation of bike lanes.
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 25, 2018, 04:45:17 PMThey've also heavily discriminated against UTVs (think Polaris Ranger) and ATVs (4-wheelers).
Why in the world would you need, or want, to drive an ATV through a city?

jeffandnicole

Quote from: abefroman329 on November 26, 2018, 07:21:05 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 25, 2018, 04:45:17 PMLarge cities have heavily put bikes at the top of the order via the installation of bike lanes.
No, they're just ensuring bicyclists can get around the city without being killed, and motorists can easily get around the city without killing anyone, via the installation of bike lanes.

Except that hasn't happened. 

Bicyclists are still being killed because they're going thru red lights and stop signs.

Motorists, trucks, etc now have limited/no areas to park, but still need to make stops, make deliveries, etc, so they have to park in the bike lanes.

Bike lanes, especially by removing parking or a travel lane, hasn't made things better, and has often made things worse.

kphoger

Quote from: abefroman329 on November 26, 2018, 07:21:05 AM
Why in the world would you need, or want, to drive an ATV through a city?

Could be a farmer popping into town to grab a bite to eat while checking fence.
Could be maintenance staff at a college transiting between sites.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

abefroman329

Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 01:44:51 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 26, 2018, 07:21:05 AM
Why in the world would you need, or want, to drive an ATV through a city?

Could be a farmer popping into town to grab a bite to eat while checking fence.
Could be maintenance staff at a college transiting between sites.
Thanks, hadn't considered either one.

Tonytone

The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.


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kphoger

Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.

Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland.  They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car.  But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever...  It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end.  I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Tonytone

Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.

Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland.  They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car.  But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever...  It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end.  I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Wow KP, you're not as conservative as I thought, I should stop judging people by their actions & start judging by their words. But yes imagine how many less cars would be on the road, if they accepted other forms of vehicles other then cars.


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kphoger

Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.

Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland.  They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car.  But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever...  It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end.  I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Wow KP, you're not as conservative as I thought, I should stop judging people by their actions & start judging by their words. But yes imagine how many less cars would be on the road, if they accepted other forms of vehicles other then cars.

??   Isn't it a fairly conservative ideal to have the government prohibit fewer things?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Tonytone

Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.

Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland.  They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car.  But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever...  It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end.  I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Wow KP, you're not as conservative as I thought, I should stop judging people by their actions & start judging by their words. But yes imagine how many less cars would be on the road, if they accepted other forms of vehicles other then cars.

??   Isn't it a fairly conservative ideal to have the government prohibit fewer things?
I coulda sworn conservatives wanted to keep things old school & have as little change as possible, while liberal ideal is to have new Ideas & encourage change.


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kphoger

Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.

Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland.  They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car.  But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever...  It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end.  I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Wow KP, you're not as conservative as I thought, I should stop judging people by their actions & start judging by their words. But yes imagine how many less cars would be on the road, if they accepted other forms of vehicles other then cars.

??   Isn't it a fairly conservative ideal to have the government prohibit fewer things?
I coulda sworn conservatives wanted to keep things old school & have as little change as possible, while liberal ideal is to have new Ideas & encourage change.

Ah, yes.  Perhaps it would better be described as a "libertarian ideal" to have the government prohibit fewer things.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Tonytone

Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 03:02:25 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.

Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland.  They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car.  But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever...  It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end.  I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Wow KP, you're not as conservative as I thought, I should stop judging people by their actions & start judging by their words. But yes imagine how many less cars would be on the road, if they accepted other forms of vehicles other then cars.

??   Isn't it a fairly conservative ideal to have the government prohibit fewer things?
I coulda sworn conservatives wanted to keep things old school & have as little change as possible, while liberal ideal is to have new Ideas & encourage change.

Ah, yes.  Perhaps it would better be described as a "libertarian ideal" to have the government prohibit fewer things.
Hold on, what you said right there, sorry to be OT right quick, maybe most Americans think Being conservative is change & Being liberal is to stay the same. That's probably why a-lot of things aren't changing & keep gridlocking.


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abefroman329

Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.

Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland.  They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car.  But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever...  It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end.  I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
I think a bicycle or a Vespa or something that was designed to be driven on paved city streets would be even more useful, but point taken, any of these would be better than a car.



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