Metrication

[Poiponen13]

Why fractions are not usually used with metric units? For example, 3/4 km would be 750 m. And using mixed units like 1 m 33 cm, similar to e.g. 5 ft 2 in.

[GaryV]

And using mixed units like 1 m 33 cm, similar to e.g. 5 ft 2 in.

I've more often seen metric in all one measurement. If someone's height is 6' 2", I've seen that being denoted as 188 cm, not 1 m 88 cm.

(For that matter, the height might be expressed as 74", depending on the setting.)

[1995hoo]

Why fractions are not usually used with metric units? ....

Why is sentence coherent you write not?

[Poiponen13]

I have almost never seen fractions used with metric units. Which is the reason for that?

[1995hoo]

I have almost never seen fractions used with metric units. Which is the reason for that?

You're the one demanding the US adopt metric units, so why don't you tell us what the reason is?

[Poiponen13]

I have almost never seen fractions used with metric units. Which is the reason for that?

You're the one demanding the US adopt metric units, so why don't you tell us what the reason is?

Reason for US's total metrication:


The US is a superpower country that does not use metric units, at least very much. The US is the world's largest economy, but still uses units like mile, foot, ounce, pound, gallon and Fahrenheit. Why this superpower cannot use metric? Other countries use metric, at least nearly all of them. For example, Australia used to be like US, but it completely metricated in the 1970s. Can US do it too? The US should use the system that everyone else uses, and is more logical than imperial / US customary system. The US should also switch to DMY date format and Monday as the first day of week in calendars because most other countries uses them.

[7/8]

I have almost never seen fractions used with metric units. Which is the reason for that?

You're the one demanding the US adopt metric units, so why don't you tell us what the reason is?

Reason for US's total metrication:


The US is a superpower country that does not use metric units, at least very much. The US is the world's largest economy, but still uses units like mile, foot, ounce, pound, gallon and Fahrenheit. Why this superpower cannot use metric? Other countries use metric, at least nearly all of them. For example, Australia used to be like US, but it completely metricated in the 1970s. Can US do it too? The US should use the system that everyone else uses, and is more logical than imperial / US customary system. The US should also switch to DMY date format and Monday as the first day of week in calendars because most other countries uses them.

I agree with everything except DMY. YYYY-MM-DD is superior (ISO 8601).

[vdeane]

I'm currently sitting at a Peruvian-Japanese restaurant. The menu used a comma for a decimal point, so my meal was "16,50". Japan does not use the comma this way. Internet sources disagree on whether Peru does, although someone on Discord says yes.

My check is not in 24-hour time — the internet also disagrees on this with regard to Peru. (If they did, it wouldn't be the first I've seen in the US to do so, unlike the comma for a decimal point.)

It also had an already-included 15% tip (I tipped 20%) even though I was alone, which I have no idea if Peru does, and a 4% credit card fee which seems to be the hot new trend in Massachusetts.

Eh, charging more for credit card users has been around for years.

Still illegal in Massachusetts. Last place I had do it to me, I asked my credit card company to charge it back, and they did.

Looks like now explicitly legal in NY with some fine print:
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-new-law-clarify-disclosure-credit-card-surcharges-goes-effect-sunday

Meh.  Been standard practice in NY.  Haven't been surprised by a charge yet.  At least with the businesses I've been to, they've been good about posting it.

There is one big change: stores wouldn't be allowed to simply post "all credit card transactions have a 3% surcharge" or similar anymore.  Instead they would be required to list separate cash/card prices for everything they sell, like gas pumps do.

[1995hoo]

I have almost never seen fractions used with metric units. Which is the reason for that?

You're the one demanding the US adopt metric units, so why don't you tell us what the reason is?

non-response deleted

No, what I meant is, you're the one telling us the US should adopt metric, so you tell us why metric doesn't use fractions. As the proponent of the system, the burden falls on you to explain such things.

[Poiponen13]

I have almost never seen fractions used with metric units. Which is the reason for that?

You're the one demanding the US adopt metric units, so why don't you tell us what the reason is?

non-response deleted

No, what I meant is, you're the one telling us the US should adopt metric, so you tell us why metric doesn't use fractions. As the proponent of the system, the burden falls on you to explain such things.

The reason probably is that metric system is fully decimal, and things like 5/6 are always understood to mean 8.33, 83.3, 833, 8,330 etc, like 5/6 m is 8.33 decimeters, 83.3 centimeters and 833 millimeters. By contrast, 5/6 yards is 2.5 feet and 30 inches. No 8.333333 here.

[kphoger]

An advantage of metric system is that its units always have ratios of powers of 10. Converting to larger and smaller units just involves moving the decimal dot around ... This makes metric system more logical than imperial/US customary system.

Why fractions are not usually used with metric units? For example, 3/4 km would be 750 m.

That would make it less logical, wouldn't it?

Reason for against US's total metrication:

The US is a superpower country
The US is the world's largest economy

FTFY

things like 5/6 are always understood to mean 8.33, 83.3, 833, 8,330 etc, like 5/6 m is 8.33 decimeters, 83.3 centimeters and 833 millimeters. By contrast, 5/6 yards is 2.5 feet and 30 inches. No 8.333333 here.

I'm glad you pointed this out.

Figuring out five-sixths of a mile (4400 feet) is more accurate and yields a rounder result than figuring out five-sixths of a kilometer (833 meters).  It also yields a result that can be further divided evenly by 1, 2, 4, 5, and 8.

Figuring out five-sixths of a yard (30 inches) is more accurate and yields a rounder result than figuring out five-sixths of a meter (83.3 centimeters).  It also yields a result that can be further divided evenly by 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6.

Finland should convert to US Customary units.

[Poiponen13]

An advantage of metric system is that its units always have ratios of powers of 10. Converting to larger and smaller units just involves moving the decimal dot around ... This makes metric system more logical than imperial/US customary system.

Why fractions are not usually used with metric units? For example, 3/4 km would be 750 m.

That would make it less logical, wouldn't it?

Reason for[/s] against US's total metrication:

The US is a superpower country
The US is the world's largest economy

FTFY

things like 5/6 are always understood to mean 8.33, 83.3, 833, 8,330 etc, like 5/6 m is 8.33 decimeters, 83.3 centimeters and 833 millimeters. By contrast, 5/6 yards is 2.5 feet and 30 inches. No 8.333333 here.

I'm glad you pointed this out.

Figuring out five-sixths of a mile (4400 feet) is more accurate and yields a rounder result than figuring out five-sixths of a kilometer (833 meters).  It also yields a result that can be further divided evenly by 1, 2, 4, 5, and 8.

Figuring out five-sixths of a yard (30 inches) is more accurate and yields a rounder result than figuring out five-sixths of a meter (83.3 centimeters).  It also yields a result that can be further divided evenly by 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6.

Finland should convert to US Customary units.

But metric system uses 10 because we use decimal numeral system. The 10 is divisible by 1, 2 and 5. In contrast, 12 is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6. We could possible use duodecimal (base-12 system) but we have decided to use base-10 because we have ten fingers and toes. I now make few comparisons of decimal and duodecimal systems:
(Note: the apostrophe means duodecimal)
0=0'
1=1'
9=9'
10=A'
11=B'
12=10'
144=100'
1728=1000'


In this system, 5/6 of 100 (duodecimal), which is 120 in decimal, is round A0. The 144 is round 100. The 132 is B0. The 1/3 of 100 is repeating 33.33333333....., but 1/3 of 144 is 48. In duodecimal, 48 is 40, so 1/3 of their 100 is 40 - a round number. In duodecimal, 1/3 also has terminating decimals rather than repeating threes.

[kphoger]

But metric system uses 10 because we use decimal numeral system.

And that has its trade-offs.  See below.

10 is divisible by 1, 2 and 5.
12 is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6.

Five numbers is more than three numbers.  12 is more usefully divisible than 10.

I rarely need to divide anything into fifths or sixths.  It's almost always halves, thirds, or quarters.  In summary:

12 ÷ 2 = a whole number
12 ÷ 3 = a whole number
12 ÷ 4 = a whole number
12 ÷ 5 = not a whole number, but I hardly ever need to do this
12 ÷ 6 = a whole number, but I hardly ever need to do this

10 ÷ 2 = a whole number
10 ÷ 3 = not a whole number
10 ÷ 4 = not a whole number
10 ÷ 5 = a whole number, but I hardly ever need to do this
10 ÷ 6 = not a whole number, but I hardly ever need to do this

[Poiponen13]

But metric system uses 10 because we use decimal numeral system.

And that has its trade-offs.  See below.

10 is divisible by 1, 2 and 5.
12 is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6.

Five numbers is more than three numbers.  12 is more usefully divisible than 10.

I rarely need to divide anything into fifths or sixths.  It's almost always halves, thirds, or quarters.  In summary:

12 ÷ 2 = a whole number
12 ÷ 3 = a whole number
12 ÷ 4 = a whole number
12 ÷ 5 = not a whole number, but I hardly ever need to do this
12 ÷ 6 = a whole number, but I hardly ever need to do this

10 ÷ 2 = a whole number
10 ÷ 3 = not a whole number
10 ÷ 4 = not a whole number
10 ÷ 5 = a whole number, but I hardly ever need to do this
10 ÷ 6 = not a whole number, but I hardly ever need to do this

That's why I said that we should use duodecimal. But human evolution has disagreed. And what about if metric system was base-12, so that "deca" and "deci" would mean 12, "hecto" and "centi" 144, "kilo" and "milli" 1,728, etc. But remembering larger powers of 12 is a challenge, unless we use duodecimal. I have made a conlang which uses duodecimal number names.

[kphoger]

That's why I said that we should use duodecimal. But human evolution has disagreed. And what about if metric system was base-12, so that "deca" and "deci" would mean 12, "hecto" and "centi" 144, "kilo" and "milli" 1,728, etc. But remembering larger powers of 12 is a challenge, unless we use duodecimal.

So let me get this straight.  The USA should switch to Metric because it's better than US Customary.  But Metric should be changed because it's less useful than US Customary?

I have an easier plan in mind.  Can you guess what it is?

[hotdogPi]

Relations between units in US customary aren't obvious.

Volumes (cups, etc.) are generally binary, except a tablespoon is three teaspoons, not two or four. There are also some (Scott5114 among them) who don't know the relative order of a cup, pint, and quart.
5280 is a multiple of 11 — how did that get in there?
I still don't know if a BTU or horsepower is larger or if they're even the same type of unit.
Very small units don't work in US customary simply because those units don't exist — prescriptions are in grams and milligrams, and so are nutrition labels.

Metric fixes all this.

[Poiponen13]

That's why I said that we should use duodecimal. But human evolution has disagreed. And what about if metric system was base-12, so that "deca" and "deci" would mean 12, "hecto" and "centi" 144, "kilo" and "milli" 1,728, etc. But remembering larger powers of 12 is a challenge, unless we use duodecimal.

So let me get this straight.  The USA should switch to Metric because it's better than US Customary.  But Metric should be changed because it's less useful than US Customary?

I have an easier plan in mind.  Can you guess what it is?

It's of Finland adopting US customary.

[jeffandnicole]

Relations between units in US customary aren't obvious.

Volumes (cups, etc.) are generally binary, except a tablespoon is three teaspoons, not two or four. There are also some (Scott5114 among them) who don't know the relative order of a cup, pint, and quart.
5280 is a multiple of 11 — how did that get in there?
I still don't know if a BTU or horsepower is larger or if they're even the same type of unit.
Very small units don't work in US customary simply because those units don't exist — prescriptions are in grams and milligrams, and so are nutrition labels.

Metric fixes all this.

We just use fractions if we have to describe some numbers. If we told someone a half inch, they'll get it. A really small measurement may be 1/64th of 1 inch.

For people and professions where small units are important, metric works well. For the vast majority of us, fractions get us by.

[Poiponen13]

Relations between units in US customary aren't obvious.

Volumes (cups, etc.) are generally binary, except a tablespoon is three teaspoons, not two or four. There are also some (Scott5114 among them) who don't know the relative order of a cup, pint, and quart.
5280 is a multiple of 11 — how did that get in there?
I still don't know if a BTU or horsepower is larger or if they're even the same type of unit.
Very small units don't work in US customary simply because those units don't exist — prescriptions are in grams and milligrams, and so are nutrition labels.

Metric fixes all this.

We just use fractions if we have to describe some numbers. If we told someone a half inch, they'll get it. A really small measurement may be 1/64th of 1 inch.

For people and professions where small units are important, metric works well. For the vast majority of us, fractions get us by.

A half centimeter is just 0.5 cm or 5 mm. So, is it logical to say 1/2 cm instead of 0.5 cm or 5 mm?

[kphoger]

5280 is a multiple of 11 — how did that get in there?

This is the worst part of our system.  I explained it in detail up-thread in this post.

[Poiponen13]

5280 is a multiple of 11 — how did that get in there?

This is the worst part of our system.  I explained it in detail up-thread in this post.

The UK should first adopted metric system when it had just been invented in France, namely in early 19th century.

[Brandon]

I have almost never seen fractions used with metric units. Which is the reason for that?

You're the one demanding the US adopt metric units, so why don't you tell us what the reason is?

Reason for US's total metrication:


The US is a superpower country that does not use metric units, at least very much. The US is the world's largest economy, but still uses units like mile, foot, ounce, pound, gallon and Fahrenheit. Why this superpower cannot use metric? Other countries use metric, at least nearly all of them. For example, Australia used to be like US, but it completely metricated in the 1970s. Can US do it too? The US should use the system that everyone else uses, and is more logical than imperial / US customary system. The US should also switch to DMY date format and Monday as the first day of week in calendars because most other countries uses them.

Why?  Does everywhere need to use the same system?  As long as a system is coherent to users and consistent, what's the point of everywhere having the same exact systems?

US customary/Imperial is logical in a different way.  It's meant to be split 4 ways instead of 10.  What's so natural or even logical about 10 instead of 4?

Why shouldn't we use a dating system that reflects how people actually speak?

Why should the first day of the week change?  Sunday is perfectly fine here.  Saturday is used in a lot of Muslim countries.  It's OK to be different.

[Brandon]

5280 is a multiple of 11 — how did that get in there?

This is the worst part of our system.  I explained it in detail up-thread in this post.

The UK should first adopted metric system when it had just been invented in France, namely in early 19th century.

Why would they use the measurement system of their then-current enemy?

[hotdogPi]

The UK should first adopted metric system when it had just been invented in France, namely in early 19th century.

Why would they use the measurement system of their then-current enemy?

The US was allied with France during that time, though. We could easily have switched.

[Poiponen13]

I have almost never seen fractions used with metric units. Which is the reason for that?

You're the one demanding the US adopt metric units, so why don't you tell us what the reason is?

Reason for US's total metrication:


The US is a superpower country that does not use metric units, at least very much. The US is the world's largest economy, but still uses units like mile, foot, ounce, pound, gallon and Fahrenheit. Why this superpower cannot use metric? Other countries use metric, at least nearly all of them. For example, Australia used to be like US, but it completely metricated in the 1970s. Can US do it too? The US should use the system that everyone else uses, and is more logical than imperial / US customary system. The US should also switch to DMY date format and Monday as the first day of week in calendars because most other countries uses them.

Why?  Does everywhere need to use the same system?  As long as a system is coherent to users and consistent, what's the point of everywhere having the same exact systems?

US customary/Imperial is logical in a different way.  It's meant to be split 4 ways instead of 10.  What's so natural or even logical about 10 instead of 4?

Why shouldn't we use a dating system that reflects how people actually speak?

Why should the first day of the week change?  Sunday is perfectly fine here.  Saturday is used in a lot of Muslim countries.  It's OK to be different.

ARGUMENTS

Monday is better because it is the first day of working week. US's metrication would unite the world. It's very very very very disgusting that US does not use metric, at least very much.

Most languages use DMY when spoken. In Finnish, it's "kahdestoista helmikuuta", 12.2., 12 February. Tomorrow's date will spell my favorite 132, and 13/2 is possible only in DMY because there cannot be month 13.

But I would like to use a duodecimal numeral system. Mayde someday extra fingers and toes are common.