News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

St. Louis freeways

Started by Chris, June 21, 2009, 02:55:07 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

ChiMilNet

Quote from: US20IL64 on September 20, 2021, 11:44:21 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 18, 2021, 02:04:39 PM
Quote from: US20IL64 on September 15, 2021, 04:53:13 PM
Used to visit STL region seeing relatives and weddings. Cousins' family lived in 1960 era sub-division by Cave Springs exit, in St. Charles Co. Back in 60's was rural, and their neighborhood [West Clay & Sawyer] seemed like only houses for miles, though I was pre-teen. {Didn't see old part of St. Charles til 1972.}

Then, when there in '73, traffic on I-70 was heavy, and its bridge had potholes. By next visit in '78 was fully suburban, with Target, Venture and other shops at Cave Spgs. In 80's saw new St. Peters Mall and more development to US-40. And, the 270-70 interchange was modernized from cloverleaf. 90s-00s even more built up.

As someone said, was amazed at all the wide free/expressways & interchanges, but then Chicagoland doesn't have the room to expand as much.

Now, like to look at area on Google, and recently joined this site, and interesting to hear what's going on with roads, etc.
Do you remember if I-70 in St Charles County (specifically the area around Cave Springs you mentioned) was 4 lanes or 6 lanes back then? Based on the satellite image, with different pavement color and a narrow left shoulder (6 feet, opposed to the 10 feet required in interstate standards), I have a feeling that it was originally 4 lanes, and later widened to 6 in the inside. I could be wrong.


I-70 was 4 lanes back then, [late 60's]. Was clogged by 1972/73. By 1978, MO was building 2nd bridge, and then 70 was 6 lanes.

Why I-70 West of I-270 is not at least eight lanes the entire way to at least I-64 by now just blows my mind. I think I have seen that there are at least plans now to extend the six-lane portion to West of Wentzville Pkwy (that old railroad underpass has been needing work for over 20 years now). Of course, I-64 should also be six lanes to I-70 (I guess we should also be happy at least it is a full interstate that distance now, considering the memory of dealing with those stoplights).


jbrocato

Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 18, 2021, 02:46:54 PM
Does anyone have photographic evidence what exit number that MO 94/MO 364 has for the new Heritage Crossing exit?

I have driven past the interchange (no photos).  Heritage Crossing is 13A and MO 94 east is now 13B (formerly 13).

SkyPesos

Quote from: jbrocato on September 23, 2021, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 18, 2021, 02:46:54 PM
Does anyone have photographic evidence what exit number that MO 94/MO 364 has for the new Heritage Crossing exit?

I have driven past the interchange (no photos).  Heritage Crossing is 13A and MO 94 east is now 13B (formerly 13).
Congratulations MoDOT, you spent extra money replacing other signs that you didn't really need to by not calling it exit 12, and not matching with the WB exit for the same road.

SkyPesos

Quote from: SkyPesos on September 23, 2021, 05:56:06 PM
Quote from: jbrocato on September 23, 2021, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 18, 2021, 02:46:54 PM
Does anyone have photographic evidence what exit number that MO 94/MO 364 has for the new Heritage Crossing exit?

I have driven past the interchange (no photos).  Heritage Crossing is 13A and MO 94 east is now 13B (formerly 13).
Congratulations MoDOT, you spent extra money replacing other signs that you didn't really need to by not calling it exit 12, and not matching with the WB exit for the same road.
That was quick, it's on GSV already.
Interesting seeing two signs go on a single side gantry. Normally (at least in Missouri), I only see a single sign on a side gantry, and if more than one is needed, then an overhead gantry is used instead.

SkyPesos

#279
Looks like the WB US 40 to 22nd St/Jefferson Ave opened sometime in the past month or two (also the first 2022 GSV I've seen!)

And a view from the Jefferson Ave overpass.

EDIT: Seems like the opening is only a partial opening. Full opening will come this spring.

ilpt4u

Quote from: SkyPesos on February 03, 2022, 08:37:09 PM
Looks like the WB US 40 to 22nd St/Jefferson Ave opened sometime in the past month or two (also the first 2022 GSV I've seen!)

And a view from the Jefferson Ave overpass.

EDIT: Seems like the opening is only a partial opening. Full opening will come this spring.
This post maybe belongs in the old thread I made about the old interchange, originally designed for the cancelled MO 755 Freeway, giving way for the new soccer stadium

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25883.0

Discussion of the new/reconfigured roads and exits took place in that thread, also

adt1982

Quote from: SkyPesos on February 03, 2022, 08:37:09 PM
Looks like the WB US 40 to 22nd St/Jefferson Ave opened sometime in the past month or two (also the first 2022 GSV I've seen!)

And a view from the Jefferson Ave overpass.

EDIT: Seems like the opening is only a partial opening. Full opening will come this spring.

It wasn't open when I last went by on January 9th.

skluth

I found this 2018 pub from MODOT on the I-70 Express Lanes in St Louis. Has some interesting proposals on its future. I wish when they last rebuilt I-70 (IIRC, 15-20 years ago) that they had just gotten rid of the express lanes and made I-70 four lanes each way. It would probably mean a return of the backups westbound near Union Blvd, but I've never seen the express lanes all that busy except at rush hour when I lived in St Louis.

SkyPesos

#283
I was looking at historical MoDOT maps for another thread, examined the metro St Louis insert, and found some interesting things to note. Map split into 2 images as route numbers would be unreadable if I screenshotted it in 1:


- So many bannered US routes that went through St Louis, that I lost track of them all. Some US routes have multiple routes (mainline + multiple bannered) through the city, like US 67 on Kingshighway, US 67 ALT to the east, going via downtown, and US 67 Bypass on Lindbergh. US 40 have four, with a US 40 BYP via St Charles and the Chain of Rocks bridge, US 40 ALT along St Charles Rock Rd, and US 40 TRUCK on Manchester east of Lindbergh.
- Speaking of Lindbergh, I see a concurrency of 4 US routes between MO 100 (Manchester) and US 40 on it: US 40 TRUCK/US 61/US 66/US 67 BYP. And it seems like the MacArthur Bridge was a 5-way concurrency between US 40/US 50/US 66 CITY/US 67 ALT/US 460? I wonder how this (along with all the US routes in the metro area) was signed. Also, the MacArthur Bridge was actually one of two bridges to carry both US 40 and US 50 across a body of water back then, along with the SF Bay Bridge. Those two routes really do hang out close with each other for x0 routes  :-D
- The "CITY" banner (seen on US 66) is new to me. I don't really get the point of it over other banners, like ALT or Business, but are there any modern-day examples of US routes with a CITY banner left?
- Also, why does US 66 CITY split into two routes north/east of downtown? Wouldn't that be confusing to drivers?

edwaleni

Note that there are 2 "CITY" US-66 on this map.

One on the Illinois side and one on the Missouri side.

BUSN (I thought) was used for truck routing.

ALT was used when a primary route had a potential obstruction (like a draw bridge) or something that would cause congestion.

I still see BUSN and ALT used, but I haven't seen CTY since I was a kid.

Plutonic Panda

Are there any upcoming "mega"  freeway projects for the St. Louis metro?

SkyPesos

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 07, 2022, 10:07:42 AM
Are there any upcoming "mega"  freeway projects for the St. Louis metro?
The main one I can think of off the top of my head is the improvement of the northern loop of I-270 (called the I-270 North Project by MoDOT), which includes widening that part of I-270 to 8 lanes, reconstructing the US 67 and MO 367 interchanges, converting Dunn Rd to a one-way (WB) frontage road (and Pershall to EB), which removes the situation where WB I-270 exits slip lane have to cross over the EB Dunn Rd lanes each time.

But besides that, it seems like the region's "mega" freeway projects have been concluded in the past decade. Stuff like the I-64 rebuild, Stan Musial Bridge, MO 364, MO 141 northern extension, etc.

Plutonic Panda

Yeah I am aware of the I-270 upgrades. I've been watching that on Twitter. That'll be nice once completed I'll probably make a drive up there just see it and hit up Six Flags while I'm at it.

I swear there was a plan to rebuild and modernize the double decker I-64 viaduct and ramps in DTSTL but I can't find anything on it.

SkyPesos

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 07, 2022, 10:34:44 AM
Yeah I am aware of the I-270 upgrades. I’ve been watching that on Twitter. That’ll be nice once completed I’ll probably make a drive up there just see it and hit up Six Flags while I’m at it.
My only additional wish for the I-270 project is that hopefully, the New Chain of Rocks Bridge over the Mississippi River can get replaced with a 6 lane one in the future. I think suddenly dropping down from 8 lanes (after the completion of the I-270 North project) to 4 lanes could cause some traffic issues.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 07, 2022, 10:34:44 AM
I swear there was a plan to rebuild and modernize the double decker I-64 viaduct and ramps in DTSTL but I can’t find anything on it.
There is an I-64 ramps project in downtown STL, it's the new Jefferson Ave and 22nd St interchanges in place of the old flyovers (exits 38A-B), to serve the new soccer stadium. I'll be completed later this year. I posted some GSV links on that above.

While browsing the MoDOT site for more projects that I'm not aware of, there are improvements on I-70 between Wentzville Pkwy and US 40/61 in St Charles County under construction right now, which would widen that part from 4 to 8 lanes. After that, there's another project that will rebuild the I-70 and US 40/61 interchange, which is currently unfunded though. Hoping this would also widen US 40/61 south of I-70 to 6 (or even 8) lanes; the project page of the interchange mentions that the AADT of US 40/61 south of I-70 is around 75k, which is high for 4 lanes.

Plutonic Panda

Hopefully they also build an iconic span for the new, New Chain of Rock Bridge(not everyday I can say that lol) as opposed to the bland Rocheport bridge. I'd also move to suggest they rename the bridge to the Really New Chain of Rocks Bridge. That would be funny.

skluth

I think it should be the New New Chain of Rocks Bridge and the current one should be the Old New Chain of Rocks Bridge.  :biggrin:

Scott5114

Quote from: SkyPesos on March 05, 2022, 09:05:33 PM
- The "CITY" banner (seen on US 66) is new to me. I don't really get the point of it over other banners, like ALT or Business, but are there any modern-day examples of US routes with a CITY banner left?

Business and city routes are essentially the same thing. When the concept of bannered routes came into being (Jake Bear tells me this was officially with the 1948 MUTCD, but some states had been using them before then), some states called them CITY and some called them BUSINESS. So you weren't likely to see them both in the same city. The 1961 MUTCD standardized them all to BUSINESS.

Somewhere there might be an old remnant CITY banner still standing, but it would be over 60 years old at this point.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: skluth on March 07, 2022, 05:29:37 PM
I think it should be the New New Chain of Rocks Bridge and the current one should be the Old New Chain of Rocks Bridge.  :biggrin:
Hah that could work  :clap:

Revive 755

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 07, 2022, 10:53:41 AM
Hopefully they also build an iconic span for the new, New Chain of Rock Bridge(not everyday I can say that lol) as opposed to the bland Rocheport bridge. I'd also move to suggest they rename the bridge to the Really New Chain of Rocks Bridge. That would be funny.

Given the main channel is non-navigable, a signature bridge is very unlikely.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 07, 2022, 10:34:44 AM
I swear there was a plan to rebuild and modernize the double decker I-64 viaduct and ramps in DTSTL but I can't find anything on it.
I think there was a deck replacement/rehab project a few years ago, but I can't recall hearing anything about a rebuild/modernization.




As for freeway mega projects, I think St. Louis will be quiet for a few years beyond maintenance and rehab projects.

edwaleni

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 07, 2022, 10:53:41 AM
Hopefully they also build an iconic span for the new, New Chain of Rock Bridge(not everyday I can say that lol) as opposed to the bland Rocheport bridge. I'd also move to suggest they rename the bridge to the Really New Chain of Rocks Bridge. That would be funny.

I saw the design that went out for bid. Nothing iconic at all. It will be a standard concrete pylon and pre-stressed concrete girder bridge.

One benefit is that it will have less pylons in the water than the old bridge and as noted above there are no navigation requirements, so the bridge will remain the same height.

It will be cheaper to build and way, way more safer than that antique that currently spans the river today.

Revive 755

Quote from: edwaleni on March 07, 2022, 10:55:11 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 07, 2022, 10:53:41 AM
Hopefully they also build an iconic span for the new, New Chain of Rock Bridge(not everyday I can say that lol) as opposed to the bland Rocheport bridge. I'd also move to suggest they rename the bridge to the Really New Chain of Rocks Bridge. That would be funny.

I saw the design that went out for bid. Nothing iconic at all. It will be a standard concrete pylon and pre-stressed concrete girder bridge.

Went to bid or is going to go to bid?  I am not recalling the new main channel bridge making it to an IDOT letting.

Either way:

Type, Size & Location plans for the new EB Bridge

Type, Size & Location plans for the new WB bridge.

edwaleni

Quote from: Revive 755 on March 08, 2022, 10:29:02 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on March 07, 2022, 10:55:11 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 07, 2022, 10:53:41 AM
Hopefully they also build an iconic span for the new, New Chain of Rock Bridge(not everyday I can say that lol) as opposed to the bland Rocheport bridge. I'd also move to suggest they rename the bridge to the Really New Chain of Rocks Bridge. That would be funny.

I saw the design that went out for bid. Nothing iconic at all. It will be a standard concrete pylon and pre-stressed concrete girder bridge.

Went to bid or is going to go to bid?  I am not recalling the new main channel bridge making it to an IDOT letting.

Either way:

Type, Size & Location plans for the new EB Bridge

Type, Size & Location plans for the new WB bridge.

Let me rephrase, I saw the design that was "going to bid", but I don't have visibility on if it actually went to bid.

mvak36

Counties: Counties visited
Travel Mapping: Summary

edwaleni

Quote from: mvak36 on March 09, 2022, 02:15:07 PM
This was the latest info I could find on their project site: https://idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/files/IDOT-Projects/District-8/I-270-Over-Mississippi/documents/Issue%204%20I-270%20Nswltr%20June%202021.pdf

I also stand corrected on the bridge construction type.

It will not be pre-stressed concrete girder, it will be a web plate steel composite girder.

"Composite" just means that the road deck structure will share load bearing with the girders.

SkyPesos

#299
Found out today that the MO 364 and MO 141 interchange got modified (again!), with a bit of an unconventional design on one half. I'm late to the party, as it's already finished. Looks like it'll turn the southern signals into two-phase as well, with the displaced EB off-ramp left turns

Project page: https://www.modot.org/route-141-route-364-intersection-improvement-project

Image of modified interchange: https://www.modot.org/sites/default/files/documents/Route%20141%20and%20364%20Exhibit.pdf




Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.