Hwy 17 in New Jersey....What is it?

[longhorn]

I am from Texas, and went through Mahwah, NJ last week. What do you call Hwy 17, a freeway? Parkway? Blvd?

Never seen a roadway with 55 mph, concrete barrier down the middle requiring you to go 4 miles out of your way to U-turn, yet have businesses have direct access to it (suicidal trying to pull out of a gas station with traffic barreling down on you), no access roads, and no traffic lights.

Its frustrating, yet genius at the same time, I see how it such a design cuts down on cross traffic bottlenecks.

[Pete from Boston]

Some refer to this as a "Jersey freeway."  Route 17 (as it is spoken there) had businesses and at-grade intersections before it had overpasses and a barrier.  The last light north of US 46 in Hasbrouck Heights was removed in the late 1980s.

[ixnay]

Reading, PA has a short Jersey freeway (PA 12 between U.S. 222/422 and PA 183).

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3529092,-75.9545677,3a,75y,36.37h,83.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVJuokbtvWwRhCCiPBc8IpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

ixnay

[AMLNet49]

There are many, many of these roads in the northeast. US-1 is in this style for much of it's run through CT, RI and especially MA. However, I have never heard any explicit name for them, though most refer to them as either a boulevard or a highway (highway meaning freeway. In the northeast most call a freeway a "highway", or if they are referring to a freeway with an "expressway" name, then they sometimes call it an "expressway").

[roadman65]

Some refer to this as a "Jersey freeway."  Route 17 (as it is spoken there) had businesses and at-grade intersections before it had overpasses and a barrier.  The last light north of US 46 in Hasbrouck Heights was removed in the late 1980s.

Yes it was in Ramsey the last light around Lake Street.  I remember driving around in my Ford Mustang checking out the 287 road work where it now interchanges with NJ 17, and remember them building the overpass for Lake Street with both Lake and the shopping plaza next to it having two lights.  After that it was not until just south of US 46 was the next one and none before that  construction area either.

I had my Mustang from 1985 to 1989, so it had to be either 87 or 88 as I think 85 and 86 was too early for work completed in 1993 for a freeway even in mountainous New Jersey.  Heck I-78 in PA started in 1986 and finished in 1990, and that was because of the hills around Easton and Bethlehem that took it around 4 full years.  1987, would be about right for those signals being removed.

Also NJ 4 is a Jersey Freeway as well with no lights east of NJ 208, and parts of US 46 in Bergen County east of I-95, between Clifton and NJ 159 at Fairfield, and even US 22 east of New Providence Road in Mountainside.  Even US 30 along Admiral Wilson Blvd. in Camden is a road like Route 17, and the NJ 33 & NJ 34 brief concurrency in Howell is one but no overpasses.  Just no median breaks where you have to u turn at each end of that concurrency which is almost two miles long.

[dgolub]

There are many, many of these roads in the northeast. US-1 is in this style for much of it's run through CT, RI and especially MA. However, I have never heard any explicit name for them, though most refer to them as either a boulevard or a highway (highway meaning freeway. In the northeast most call a freeway a "highway", or if they are referring to a freeway with an "expressway" name, then they sometimes call it an "expressway").

Where does US 1 become a Jersey freeway in Connecticut?  That's news to me.  The state has very few grade separations that aren't on expressways or parkways.

[AMLNet49]

There are many, many of these roads in the northeast. US-1 is in this style for much of it's run through CT, RI and especially MA. However, I have never heard any explicit name for them, though most refer to them as either a boulevard or a highway (highway meaning freeway. In the northeast most call a freeway a "highway", or if they are referring to a freeway with an "expressway" name, then they sometimes call it an "expressway").

Where does US 1 become a Jersey freeway in Connecticut?  That's news to me.  The state has very few grade separations that aren't on expressways or parkways.

Not a whole lot I don't think in CT. Just in East Haven really, where  it's a jersey freeway in a frontage road style, I think that was the only spot I was thinking about.

[shadyjay]

US 1 in CT a "jersey freeway"?  I think not.  Except the aforementioned East Haven section, and that's only a mile or so.
In Mass, for sure, especially the section from the MA 60 circle, though Saugus and Peabody, up to Danvers.
In RI, sort of... but with median u-turns and a lot more "rural" than the territory NJ 17 passes through

[roadman65]

It is in NH along its Bypass near the ME Border.

Also US 69 in Overland Park, KS used to be one until Home Depot opened up.

[Pete from Boston]

It is in NH along its Bypass near the ME Border.

Only a <1 mile leg of Bypass 1 north of the circle really counts.  The rest has traffic lights and at-grade intersections.

[Alps]

It is in NH along its Bypass near the ME Border.

Only a <1 mile leg of Bypass 1 north of the circle really counts.  The rest has traffic lights and at-grade intersections.

Bypass 1 isn't 1. 1 goes through Portsmouth. It's one of the only cases where the main highway is the "business" route (and not even bannered, which is why I know this).

[Pete from Boston]

You're right, and after I wrote this I realized the split is further north than I remembered.  There is a mix of lights and grade separation between there and the circle, with full grade separation in the segment I noted (north of which is another light before the Long Bridge).

[roadman65]

You're right, and after I wrote this I realized the split is further north than I remembered.  There is a mix of lights and grade separation between there and the circle, with full grade separation in the segment I noted (north of which is another light before the Long Bridge).

Let me check that one out too. 

[MrDisco99]

Heh... last time I was road tripping up that way I took US 1 from NYC down towards Philly thinking it would be a proper Jersey freeway... not so much... ended up losing about an hour compared to the turnpike.

[Pete from Boston]

Heh... last time I was road tripping up that way I took US 1 from NYC down towards Philly thinking it would be a proper Jersey freeway... not so much... ended up losing about an hour compared to the turnpike.

Twenty-five years ago, it was a shortcut.  Traffic increase on Route 1 and the recent Turnpike expansion change the game somewhat.

[odditude]

Heh... last time I was road tripping up that way I took US 1 from NYC down towards Philly thinking it would be a proper Jersey freeway... not so much... ended up losing about an hour compared to the turnpike.

Twenty-five years ago, it was a shortcut.  Traffic increase on Route 1 and the recent Turnpike expansion change the game somewhat.

Route 1 is a good alternative south of exit 9 if you're well outside rush hour; otherwise, you're setting yourself up for misery.

[roadman65]

Heh... last time I was road tripping up that way I took US 1 from NYC down towards Philly thinking it would be a proper Jersey freeway... not so much... ended up losing about an hour compared to the turnpike.

Twenty-five years ago, it was a shortcut.  Traffic increase on Route 1 and the recent Turnpike expansion change the game somewhat.

I can tell you about US 1 between New Brunswick and Trenton as I saw the boom there take place starting in 1985 onward.

It was a great road, even though many lights on it, as at one time NJDOT knew how to time lights so you could travel through many without getting nailed at one.  It was hardship on the side roads as you had long waits for a green, but it kept the road moving. 

Then the Forrestal Center along with Carnagie Center was developed shortly followed by a strip mall here and there.  Also NJDOT allowed for two new signals in North Brunswick between NJ 26 and US 130 to be installed, in which that stretch was a Jersey Freeway for years.  Many of us at Prudential, when I worked in Iselin at the office at 131A (now 131)of the Parkway had a hefty discussion about those two signals which were for new developments consisting of a Pathmark and new apartments.

Pretty much it really went from rural to suburbia so did the patterns of traffic as more shopping, homes, apartments, and offices will add to the roadway which was only four lanes at the time.  Now, I see many parts are six to eight lanes.

[longhorn]

So how well does this pseudo not boulevard, yet not freeway design move traffic?

[Pete from Boston]

So how well does this pseudo not boulevard, yet not freeway design move traffic?

I would say it strikes a decent balance.  These are generally roads where the development alongside, something that started in many cases before "freeway" was a thing, creates a lot of the traffic and simultaneously requires a certain capacity for very frequent driveway entering and exiting.  On Route 17, traffic is slow during peak shopping times, but it moves.  Most of the worst bottlenecks (with one 4-lane exception) have been removed.

Most importantly, people in New Jersey are used to this type of setup and it's unlikely many of them consider that it's at all peculiar to their area.

[odditude]

Most importantly, people in New Jersey are used to this type of setup and it's unlikely many of them consider that it's at all peculiar to their area.

this is a very good point.

[roadman65]

Oh yes, we in New Jersey used to accept jug handles and other obstacles as normal.  In fact when I moved to Florida and saw that some traffic issues were addressed by construction projects, I thought it was weird to see.

Back in NJ, NJ 495 we considered traffic at a crawl into the Lincoln Tunnel to be normal as well as other major roadways with constant jams.  We never complained at all about, except we all left for work early and planned for the delays.  Florida compared to New Jersey, even with its long PDE studies and permits and all, has too many things with roads handed to them practically.

[BrianP]

Most importantly, people in New Jersey are used to this type of setup and it's unlikely many of them consider that it's at all peculiar to their area.

Maybe northern Jerseyans are used to it.  But as a former south Jerseyan, it was a new experience when I finally had the chance to experience some of NJ 4.  Whoa no traffic lights and interchanges but driveways to shopping centers etc along the highway?  Well that's different.

I can only think of one small stretch of Jersey freeway in south Jersey and I don't recall being on it before: Admiral Wilson Blvd.

But Jughandles.  Yeah got those.

[jwolfer]

Heh... last time I was road tripping up that way I took US 1 from NYC down towards Philly thinking it would be a proper Jersey freeway... not so much... ended up losing about an hour compared to the turnpike.

Twenty-five years ago, it was a shortcut.  Traffic increase on Route 1 and the recent Turnpike expansion change the game somewhat.

I can tell you about US 1 between New Brunswick and Trenton as I saw the boom there take place starting in 1985 onward.

It was a great road, even though many lights on it, as at one time NJDOT knew how to time lights so you could travel through many without getting nailed at one.  It was hardship on the side roads as you had long waits for a green, but it kept the road moving. 

Then the Forrestal Center along with Carnagie Center was developed shortly followed by a strip mall here and there.  Also NJDOT allowed for two new signals in North Brunswick between NJ 26 and US 130 to be installed, in which that stretch was a Jersey Freeway for years.  Many of us at Prudential, when I worked in Iselin at the office at 131A (now 131)of the Parkway had a hefty discussion about those two signals which were for new developments consisting of a Pathmark and new apartments.

Pretty much it really went from rural to suburbia so did the patterns of traffic as more shopping, homes, apartments, and offices will add to the roadway which was only four lanes at the time.  Now, I see many parts are six to eight lanes.

A lot of rural divided highways in Florida were pretty much freeways in traffic movement.. Now chocked with suburban development. Like US 1 between Jacksonville and St Augustine or US 27near Clermont

Most importantly, people in New Jersey are used to this type of setup and it's unlikely many of them consider that it's at all peculiar to their area.

this is a very good point.

[roadman65]

Yes, US 1 and US 27 in those locations saddens me.  Also US 27 had the 65 mph speed limit from I-4 to just south of Clermont which is now 45 in many places thanks to Lake County saying yes to land raping!

US 1, will probably go back to 55 soon.  I have not been on it since 2008, so I imagine some new signals have been added to it between St. Augustine and Bayard.  I remember in 1983 when no signals existed between I-95 near the current Avenues Mall and SR 16 in St. Augustine.  The SR 115 intersection was without a signal which now you could not imagine it being without one. Plus the interchange with I-95 was a rural one with only one gas station at it.

Believe me we in Florida are getting tired of this sprawl taking over farm lands.  Ask flaroads and he is disgusted with Pasco County letting SR 54 transform into a suburban arterial from a road that not too long ago was two lanes and in a farm land environment.  We do get mad when extra traffic is now caused by rapid development places more cars on the road.  Roads like OBT that were free flowing in the 90's now takes almost a half hour to go what used to be ten minutes in the Florida Mall area.  Heck in Southchase we have a signal that I call Luis, named after a flaky nutcase I unfortunately know who worships at my church who lives in the apartment complex nearby that is in part to why the signal was installed created a change in flow on OBT drastically after the signal was turned on permanently.  Before the light was there it was so good to travel OBT between 417 and Wetherbee Road.  Now this one light backs up traffic into long queues especially in the right lane SB making my turn into nearby Deerfield Blvd a chore that it never was over 2 years ago.

[noelbotevera]

Yes, US 1 and US 27 in those locations saddens me.  Also US 27 had the 65 mph speed limit from I-4 to just south of Clermont which is now 45 in many places thanks to Lake County saying yes to land raping!

US 1, will probably go back to 55 soon.  I have not been on it since 2008, so I imagine some new signals have been added to it between St. Augustine and Bayard.  I remember in 1983 when no signals existed between I-95 near the current Avenues Mall and SR 16 in St. Augustine.  The SR 115 intersection was without a signal which now you could not imagine it being without one. Plus the interchange with I-95 was a rural one with only one gas station at it.

Believe me we in Florida are getting tired of this sprawl taking over farm lands.  Ask flaroads and he is disgusted with Pasco County letting SR 54 transform into a suburban arterial from a road that not too long ago was two lanes and in a farm land environment.  We do get mad when extra traffic is now caused by rapid development places more cars on the road.  Roads like OBT that were free flowing in the 90's now takes almost a half hour to go what used to be ten minutes in the Florida Mall area.  Heck in Southchase we have a signal that I call Luis, named after a flaky nutcase I unfortunately know who worships at my church who lives in the apartment complex nearby that is in part to why the signal was installed created a change in flow on OBT drastically after the signal was turned on permanently.  Before the light was there it was so good to travel OBT between 417 and Wetherbee Road.  Now this one light backs up traffic into long queues especially in the right lane SB making my turn into nearby Deerfield Blvd a chore that it never was over 2 years ago.

Florida is a place where everyone visits. The sprawl can't be stopped, a lot more people are coming to the U.S. than ever before. What can we do? We have no choice but to let them in, but how do we combat Florida sprawl, reaching into other states? That's the big money question.