Infrastructure Bill 2021

[kalvado]

As far as I know, Buttigieg wasn't directly involved in determining the contents of the bill; that was Senate staff.

What about allocation? Let me talk about it in terms of local examples.
I-81 is one of those projects with a lot of connotation in terms of racial justice, anti-highway etc.
While I-81 is basically  a set of compromises in pretty inconvenient circumstances, once it is sold in those terms, it may set a precedent.  I wonder if Buttigieg would have enough power, for example, to override more realistic local opinions about I-787 and push for "more justice"? That would put him, from my perspective, right on the same page as Robert Moses.

[jamess]

I wonder if Buttigieg would have enough power, for example, to override more realistic local opinions about I-787 and push for "more justice"? That would put him, from my perspective, right on the same page as Robert Moses.

There has always been discretion in how federal funding is distributed. During the last admin, it was incredibly obvious that funds were being given primarily to red states as a political favor.

[Scott5114]

As far as I know, Buttigieg wasn't directly involved in determining the contents of the bill; that was Senate staff.

What about allocation? Let me talk about it in terms of local examples.
I-81 is one of those projects with a lot of connotation in terms of racial justice, anti-highway etc.
While I-81 is basically  a set of compromises in pretty inconvenient circumstances, once it is sold in those terms, it may set a precedent.  I wonder if Buttigieg would have enough power, for example, to override more realistic local opinions about I-787 and push for "more justice"? That would put him, from my perspective, right on the same page as Robert Moses.

I don't think he has that power, but Rothman is the expert on how federal funding from a bill such as this is allocated.

[hbelkins]

As far as I know, Buttigieg wasn't directly involved in determining the contents of the bill; that was Senate staff.

What about allocation? Let me talk about it in terms of local examples.
I-81 is one of those projects with a lot of connotation in terms of racial justice, anti-highway etc.
While I-81 is basically  a set of compromises in pretty inconvenient circumstances, once it is sold in those terms, it may set a precedent.  I wonder if Buttigieg would have enough power, for example, to override more realistic local opinions about I-787 and push for "more justice"? That would put him, from my perspective, right on the same page as Robert Moses.

I don't think he has that power, but Rothman is the expert on how federal funding from a bill such as this is allocated.

I'm not Rothman, and I don't do the same thing for my agency that he does for his, but I've heard enough about this bill to know that there are two different processes at work, and things will probably vary from state to state.

As far as Kentucky goes, we plan to use the regular allocations in the bill for already-planned federally-funded projects. Right now we're awaiting direction from FHWA on how the competitive grant process is going to work before knowing how to apply, what to apply for, which projects to include in the application process, and all that good stuff.

Everyone seems to assume that Kentucky's share is going to go for a companion to the Brent Spence Bridge, but that's definitely not yet set in stone.

[Rothman]

As far as I know, Buttigieg wasn't directly involved in determining the contents of the bill; that was Senate staff.

What about allocation? Let me talk about it in terms of local examples.
I-81 is one of those projects with a lot of connotation in terms of racial justice, anti-highway etc.
While I-81 is basically  a set of compromises in pretty inconvenient circumstances, once it is sold in those terms, it may set a precedent.  I wonder if Buttigieg would have enough power, for example, to override more realistic local opinions about I-787 and push for "more justice"? That would put him, from my perspective, right on the same page as Robert Moses.

I don't think he has that power, but Rothman is the expert on how federal funding from a bill such as this is allocated.

We don't even have the FHWA apportionment notice yet, which is the actual document that divvies out the funds.

[Scott5114]

As far as I know, Buttigieg wasn't directly involved in determining the contents of the bill; that was Senate staff.

What about allocation? Let me talk about it in terms of local examples.
I-81 is one of those projects with a lot of connotation in terms of racial justice, anti-highway etc.
While I-81 is basically  a set of compromises in pretty inconvenient circumstances, once it is sold in those terms, it may set a precedent.  I wonder if Buttigieg would have enough power, for example, to override more realistic local opinions about I-787 and push for "more justice"? That would put him, from my perspective, right on the same page as Robert Moses.

I don't think he has that power, but Rothman is the expert on how federal funding from a bill such as this is allocated.

We don't even have the FHWA apportionment notice yet, which is the actual document that divvies out the funds.

What would you expect the process to look like from here on out? Is the apportionment notice basically just a sight draft saying "pay to the order of NYSDOT: X billion dollars" or is it more involved than that? Is there much leeway for Secretary Buttigieg to materially affect the process of how much money NYSDOT will get, or what it can be used on?

[Rothman]

As far as I know, Buttigieg wasn't directly involved in determining the contents of the bill; that was Senate staff.

What about allocation? Let me talk about it in terms of local examples.
I-81 is one of those projects with a lot of connotation in terms of racial justice, anti-highway etc.
While I-81 is basically  a set of compromises in pretty inconvenient circumstances, once it is sold in those terms, it may set a precedent.  I wonder if Buttigieg would have enough power, for example, to override more realistic local opinions about I-787 and push for "more justice"? That would put him, from my perspective, right on the same page as Robert Moses.

I don't think he has that power, but Rothman is the expert on how federal funding from a bill such as this is allocated.

We don't even have the FHWA apportionment notice yet, which is the actual document that divvies out the funds.

What would you expect the process to look like from here on out? Is the apportionment notice basically just a sight draft saying "pay to the order of NYSDOT: X billion dollars" or is it more involved than that? Is there much leeway for Secretary Buttigieg to materially affect the process of how much money NYSDOT will get, or what it can be used on?

At least for core funding, FHWA will issue the official apportionments in document that is about 13 pages long showing their calculations (somewhat...it's a little swiss cheese like) and then -- hopefully -- updated the amount of obligation limitation available to utilize such apportionments.

Special programs will get separate notices and their own program codes.  Then, for those discretionary grant programs that people are so excited about for some reason, FHWA will set up their application processes and the overly-convoluted journey to either get approved or rejected will follow for years to come.

At this point, I'm most interested in what appears to be the re-establishment of bridge rehab/replacement funding.  I'll be looking for that in FMIS to see how NYSDOT is handling it.  So far, I'm assuming that they'll hold it back in the MO and divvy it out for specific projects at the Commissioner's/Governor's discretion.  Other states will definitely be handling that one differently.

[LM117]

As mentioned in the main NC thread, the infrastructure bill created a new High Priority Corridor and future interstate in NC, which would follow US-421 from I-85 in Greensboro to I-95 in Dunn. NCDOT is expected to seek approval from AASHTO (presumably at the spring meeting) to designate it as Future I-685.

https://www.tarpo.org/2021/11/bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-clears-the-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-the-carolina-core/

[DenverBrian]

If Buttigieg was going to "pork" the distribution of funds, wouldn't there be something for Indiana by now?

[snowc]

As mentioned in the main NC thread, the infrastructure bill created a new High Priority Corridor and future interstate in NC, which would follow US-421 from I-85 in Greensboro to I-95 in Dunn. NCDOT is expected to seek approval from AASHTO (presumably at the spring meeting) to designate it as Future I-685.

https://www.tarpo.org/2021/11/bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-clears-the-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-the-carolina-core/

ITS ABOUT TIME THAT DUNN GETS A NEW INTERCHANGE! 

[DenverBrian]

As mentioned in the main NC thread, the infrastructure bill created a new High Priority Corridor and future interstate in NC, which would follow US-421 from I-85 in Greensboro to I-95 in Dunn. NCDOT is expected to seek approval from AASHTO (presumably at the spring meeting) to designate it as Future I-685.

https://www.tarpo.org/2021/11/bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-clears-the-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-the-carolina-core/

Is the numbering system completely kaput at this time? Shouldn't this be an odd-numbered 3di? It's not a loop; it's a spur into a city.

[snowc]

As mentioned in the main NC thread, the infrastructure bill created a new High Priority Corridor and future interstate in NC, which would follow US-421 from I-85 in Greensboro to I-95 in Dunn. NCDOT is expected to seek approval from AASHTO (presumably at the spring meeting) to designate it as Future I-685.

https://www.tarpo.org/2021/11/bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-clears-the-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-the-carolina-core/

Is the numbering system completely kaput at this time? Shouldn't this be an odd-numbered 3di? It's not a loop; it's a spur into a city.

it should. 

[LM117]

As mentioned in the main NC thread, the infrastructure bill created a new High Priority Corridor and future interstate in NC, which would follow US-421 from I-85 in Greensboro to I-95 in Dunn. NCDOT is expected to seek approval from AASHTO (presumably at the spring meeting) to designate it as Future I-685.

https://www.tarpo.org/2021/11/bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-clears-the-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-the-carolina-core/

To give some background on this, there's strong suspicion that Toyota will build a battery plant at the Greensboro-Randolph megasite, which sits along US-421. Can't help but wonder if that's the reason I-685(?) was included in the infrastructure bill...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-19/toyota-eyes-panasonic-as-partner-in-north-carolina-battery-plant

[sprjus4]

As mentioned in the main NC thread, the infrastructure bill created a new High Priority Corridor and future interstate in NC, which would follow US-421 from I-85 in Greensboro to I-95 in Dunn. NCDOT is expected to seek approval from AASHTO (presumably at the spring meeting) to designate it as Future I-685.

https://www.tarpo.org/2021/11/bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-clears-the-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-the-carolina-core/

Is the numbering system completely kaput at this time? Shouldn't this be an odd-numbered 3di? It's not a loop; it's a spur into a city.

No, it connects two interstates (I-85 to I-95) therefore it would be an even number.

As mentioned in the main NC thread, the infrastructure bill created a new High Priority Corridor and future interstate in NC, which would follow US-421 from I-85 in Greensboro to I-95 in Dunn. NCDOT is expected to seek approval from AASHTO (presumably at the spring meeting) to designate it as Future I-685.

https://www.tarpo.org/2021/11/bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-clears-the-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-the-carolina-core/

Seems foolish to send it to Dunn... keep it going down NC-87 and terminate at I-295. Actually connect to Fayetteville instead of deliberately shifting away from it at Sanford.

[hotdogPi]

As mentioned in the main NC thread, the infrastructure bill created a new High Priority Corridor and future interstate in NC, which would follow US-421 from I-85 in Greensboro to I-95 in Dunn. NCDOT is expected to seek approval from AASHTO (presumably at the spring meeting) to designate it as Future I-685.

https://www.tarpo.org/2021/11/bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-clears-the-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-the-carolina-core/

Is the numbering system completely kaput at this time? Shouldn't this be an odd-numbered 3di? It's not a loop; it's a spur into a city.

No, it connects two interstates (I-85 to I-95) therefore it would be an even number.

I'm seeing it as odd. Compare to I-135 and I-335 in Kansas, I-155 in Illinois, I-195 and I-395 in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut, I-380 in Iowa, and I-385 in South Carolina. This isn't a loop or beltway.

[LM117]

As mentioned in the main NC thread, the infrastructure bill created a new High Priority Corridor and future interstate in NC, which would follow US-421 from I-85 in Greensboro to I-95 in Dunn. NCDOT is expected to seek approval from AASHTO (presumably at the spring meeting) to designate it as Future I-685.

https://www.tarpo.org/2021/11/bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-clears-the-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-the-carolina-core/

Seems foolish to send it to Dunn... keep it going down NC-87 and terminate at I-295. Actually connect to Fayetteville instead of deliberately shifting away from it at Sanford.

That was my thought as well, and when I mentioned it in the NC thread, WashuOatku suggested that it was routed to Dunn in order to avoid any interference with Fort Bragg.

[DenverBrian]

As mentioned in the main NC thread, the infrastructure bill created a new High Priority Corridor and future interstate in NC, which would follow US-421 from I-85 in Greensboro to I-95 in Dunn. NCDOT is expected to seek approval from AASHTO (presumably at the spring meeting) to designate it as Future I-685.

https://www.tarpo.org/2021/11/bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-clears-the-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-the-carolina-core/

Is the numbering system completely kaput at this time? Shouldn't this be an odd-numbered 3di? It's not a loop; it's a spur into a city.

No, it connects two interstates (I-85 to I-95) therefore it would be an even number.

I'm seeing it as odd. Compare to I-135 and I-335 in Kansas, I-155 in Illinois, I-195 and I-395 in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut, I-380 in Iowa, and I-385 in South Carolina. This isn't a loop or beltway.

Exactly. Where did the "it connects two interstates" idea come from? That's never been protocol.

[Rothman]

As mentioned in the main NC thread, the infrastructure bill created a new High Priority Corridor and future interstate in NC, which would follow US-421 from I-85 in Greensboro to I-95 in Dunn. NCDOT is expected to seek approval from AASHTO (presumably at the spring meeting) to designate it as Future I-685.

https://www.tarpo.org/2021/11/bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-clears-the-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-the-carolina-core/

Is the numbering system completely kaput at this time? Shouldn't this be an odd-numbered 3di? It's not a loop; it's a spur into a city.

No, it connects two interstates (I-85 to I-95) therefore it would be an even number.

I'm seeing it as odd. Compare to I-135 and I-335 in Kansas, I-155 in Illinois, I-195 and I-395 in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut, I-380 in Iowa, and I-385 in South Carolina. This isn't a loop or beltway.

Exactly. Where did the "it connects two interstates" idea come from? That's never been protocol.

The NY Division of FHWA says hello (see I-86...).

[vdeane]

Given NCDOT's funding situation and whatnot, don't they have enough on their plate right now?  They don't need yet another interstate that's going to take forever to finish.  We're already talking about DECADES before the interstates they already added will be finished.  What point is a short stub of an interstate that won't be done for decades?  Even if we buy into the idea that simply having a shield is all that matters whether it goes anywhere or not, doesn't the fact that these routes won't be fully designated for decades devalue the brand?

[Scott5114]

It's simple–if NCDOT uses up all of the interstate numbers, nobody else will be able to build any, so NCDOT gets all of that sweet Interstate money to themselves.

[froggie]

so NCDOT gets all of that sweet Interstate money to themselves.

What "sweet Interstate money"?  A separate funding pot for Interstate highways went away years ago.  And all these new Interstates of the past 20 years were added as non-chargeable Interstates, meaning they weren't eligible for that Interstate funding to begin with.

They're eligible for NHS funding, but there are plenty of non-Interstate corridors also eligible for NHS funding.


No.  NCDOT is doing this because they (and a number of other states especially across the Southeast) see the Interstate shield as a brand...one that to them attracts business and revenue.  THAT is why they're so gung-ho with Interstates.

[Rothman]

so NCDOT gets all of that sweet Interstate money to themselves.

What "sweet Interstate money"?  A separate funding pot for Interstate highways went away years ago.  And all these new Interstates of the past 20 years were added as non-chargeable Interstates, meaning they weren't eligible for that Interstate funding to begin with.

They're eligible for NHS funding, but there are plenty of non-Interstate corridors also eligible for NHS funding.


No.  NCDOT is doing this because they (and a number of other states especially across the Southeast) see the Interstate shield as a brand...one that to them attracts business and revenue.  THAT is why they're so gung-ho with Interstates.

The new interstates aren't eligible for 90% share of NHP?  I know there have been some screwy limitations in federal legislation in days of yore (e.g., the old IM funding was based upon the interstate system as defined in a certain year, but I thought more recent bills had been more flexible.  I could be wrong on that).

[froggie]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the newer Interstates were capped at 80% like the rest of the NHS...only the "legacy" Interstates (i.e. the chargable interstates) were 90%.  I do know that, before IM went away, the newer Interstates were not eligible for IM.

[Scott5114]

- Interstate construction in the other 47 contiguous states not being possible anymore because NCDOT used up all the numbers: totally believable
- Implying that Interstate Maintenance funding still exists: UTTERLY IMPLAUSIBLE, GET HIS ASS

It was a joke, guys.

[Scott5114]

A politics site I follow had this reader Q&A question, which answers a question that was asked here upthread:

S.K. in Chappaqua, NY, asks: How much authority does the bipartisan infrastructure bill afford the executive branch with respect to allocation of funds to, oh, say. West Virginia vs. Alaska, to take a very nonrandomly selected example?

V & Z answer: Very little. A large portion of the funds are earmarked for specific projects, like a bridge from Kentucky to Ohio, restoration of the San Francisco Bay, and cleaning up the Great Lakes. Money that is not already earmarked is generally doled out by a formula that considers a state's population and a few other factors.

Like all veteran senators, Joe Manchin and Lisa Murkowski know that the time to stick your hand out is before the bill is voted on. And so, Manchin got a bunch of goodies related to coal, most obviously $11.3 billion for the Abandoned Mine Land Reclamation Fund. And Murkowski got a bunch, too, most obviously $3.5 billion to fix highways (particularly the Yukon Highway) and $225 million to fix broken bridges.

Presumably by "Yukon Highway" they mean Alaska Highway.