Why do people still live in New Orleans?

[index]

I think the more shocking thing is people still living in Grand Isle. Or maybe that Grand Isle still exists..

Or Isle de Jean Charles. That place has no future but the residents have such a deep connection there so it's a tough pill to swallow that they have to go. I've watched two documentaries on it, Can't Stop the Water and Isle de Jean Charles. The road there is pretty frightening. The overall socioeconomic situation of Louisiana also doesn't help, a good video series I recommend on this is Why Louisiana Stays Poor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWTic9btP38

I once saw a graphic that I think was from the New Yorker that showed Louisiana's southeast as what was shown as land on our maps, versus actual solid ground. When you have a map that shows what's actually solid ground, New Orleans is essentially an island city. Every time I push a bowl down into the sink when I'm doing dishes I think of New Orleans.

Here is that map:



Along with one from Medium showing actual solid ground:

[7/8]

The overall socioeconomic situation of Louisiana also doesn't help, a good video series I recommend on this is Why Louisiana Stays Poor:

This is a great video! I watched it a few weeks ago. It blew me away how extreme the property tax exemptions are compared to every other state. Hopefully their activism can make a change.

Also, I feel like this is fitting

[bing101]

I genuinely wonder why people still live in New Orleans in 2021. There's only one way that the story of New Orleans can end, and it's with a hugely devastating flood that leaves the city completely underwater. How do the residents live their lives with the thought that everything they own could, realistically, be literally washed away from them during the next, or ongoing, storm season? With every passing tragic hurricane that hits NOLA I just wonder how anyone still lives there when there are so many other places to be around the US and beyond. And this isn't even getting into the host of non-weather related other issues that the city has. I understand that there are a lot of jobs in New Orleans; yet there's also a major labor shortage in every city around the country. But if you are a resident of NOLA who can afford to leave, yet you haven't, why?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/ida-batters-new-york-city-region-flood-emergency-issued-first-n1278336


Now the same thing is happening in New York where people have died from Hurricane Ida's remains as the OP here. Basically its any city in the Cfa Climate zone thats affected here.


https://www.mindat.org/climate-Cfa.html

[Scott5114]

I feel like a better question to ask is "Why do people still live in coastal cities with a current elevation of 230' ASL or less?".

Chris

Some people just enjoy living close to the ocean. If your favorite thing to do in life is to surf, or go saltwater fishing, or you just plain like to go to the beach on the weekends, living closer to shore so you can do that is probably a much bigger positive than potential seawater rise by 2100 is a drawback. Besides, people are very talented at rationalizing away non-imminent dangers; just see the response to the pandemic and climate change in general. And if you rent and thus aren't going to lose too much when the sea level does rise, why not live there?

The word "current" in your post makes me think...when the sea levels do rise, are we going to have to go through and recalculate every town's new elevation, or are we just going to accept that towns newly on the coast have an elevation of 230 feet "above sea level"?

[JayhawkCO]

I feel like a better question to ask is "Why do people still live in coastal cities with a current elevation of 230' ASL or less?".

Chris

Some people just enjoy living close to the ocean. If your favorite thing to do in life is to surf, or go saltwater fishing, or you just plain like to go to the beach on the weekends, living closer to shore so you can do that is probably a much bigger positive than potential seawater rise by 2100 is a drawback. Besides, people are very talented at rationalizing away non-imminent dangers; just see the response to the pandemic and climate change in general. And if you rent and thus aren't going to lose too much when the sea level does rise, why not live there?

The word "current" in your post makes me think...when the sea levels do rise, are we going to have to go through and recalculate every town's new elevation, or are we just going to accept that towns newly on the coast have an elevation of 230 feet "above sea level"?

Oh, I know that's why they do, just generalizing that it's not only about New Orleans when it comes to the weather.

Re: the ASL, interesting question.  I gotta think we readjust, right?  It makes no sense for cities on the sea to be above sea level.

Chris

[kphoger]

The word "current" in your post makes me think...when the sea levels do rise, are we going to have to go through and recalculate every town's new elevation, or are we just going to accept that towns newly on the coast have an elevation of 230 feet "above sea level"?

It's complicated from the get-go.  Land rises and falls too, such that the sea level can appear to change differently than is actually happening.

[silverback1065]

southern LA has been slowly eroding into the sea forever. look at "Lake" Borgne. used to be a lake back in the day, i.e. hundreds of years ago, but it's now just a part of the gulf of mexico.

[michravera]

I feel like a better question to ask is "Why do people still live in coastal cities with a current elevation of 230' ASL or less?".

Chris

Some people just enjoy living close to the ocean. If your favorite thing to do in life is to surf, or go saltwater fishing, or you just plain like to go to the beach on the weekends, living closer to shore so you can do that is probably a much bigger positive than potential seawater rise by 2100 is a drawback. Besides, people are very talented at rationalizing away non-imminent dangers; just see the response to the pandemic and climate change in general. And if you rent and thus aren't going to lose too much when the sea level does rise, why not live there?

The word "current" in your post makes me think...when the sea levels do rise, are we going to have to go through and recalculate every town's new elevation, or are we just going to accept that towns newly on the coast have an elevation of 230 feet "above sea level"?

Oh, I know that's why they do, just generalizing that it's not only about New Orleans when it comes to the weather.

Re: the ASL, interesting question.  I gotta think we readjust, right?  It makes no sense for cities on the sea to be above sea level.

Chris

The definition of "Mean Sea Level"="MSL" is adjusted periodically (one source says every couple of months). I know of no one who thinks that MSL will rise 230 feet (70 m?) in the next hundred years or so. I have been going to some of the same beaches for over 40 years (in some cases over 55 that I know of). Any rise of sea level at any of those beaches has been imperceptible. The level looks pretty much the way it did 40 years ago. Would I have missed 200 or 300 mm of rise? I doubt it. 100 mm? maybe. Could it just be the beaches that I go to are like this? I also doubt it.

[triplemultiplex]

Along with one from Medium showing actual solid ground:

That looks so metal!
LA should use that for the state highway shield. \m/

[CtrlAltDel]

Would I have missed 200 or 300 mm of rise? I doubt it. 100 mm? maybe. Could it just be the beaches that I go to are like this? I also doubt it.

It's important to keep in mind that people get used to new normals fairly quickly, over a couple of years or so, and so changes are likely to escape perception if they're slow enough. In the case of sea level rise, while I don't know the particularities of the beaches you have in mind, on average it's increased by about 160 or so mm since 1950.

[michravera]

Would I have missed 200 or 300 mm of rise? I doubt it. 100 mm? maybe. Could it just be the beaches that I go to are like this? I also doubt it.

It's important to keep in mind that people get used to new normals fairly quickly, over a couple of years or so, and so changes are likely to escape perception if they're slow enough. In the case of sea level rise, while I don't know the particularities of the beaches you have in mind, on average it's increased by about 160 or so mm since 1950.

So, a rise of 100 mm (or less) during the last 40 years would certainly fit both of our data sets. One must keep in mind that, especially in bays (where almost all of the beaches of my lengthy experience are), sand and rocks get kicked around a lot, so the rise might even be (or seem) less still. In California, most good beaches have cliffs, so erosion, seismicity, and such might build up the beach area despite any sea level rise. In any case, sea levels may have risen 70 m in the last 10000 years and may in the next 10000, but I don't think that anyone is predicting more than a meter or so by 2200. That would be very much in line with what has happened over the last 10000 years (I get 1.26 m). Now a meter might inundate some low lying islands in the Pacific, but daily tides do more than that.

[Brian556]

My two cents... Canal Street and the Street Cars are nice. The waterfront is nice. Thats it. The rest of the city is really, really dumpy. High weeds and rotting homes everywhere. Streets are in unbelievably horrible condition.

As for the sinking land of the Mississippi River Delta:

Grand Isle...the normal water level is almost level with the ground at the back side of the island. The huge dune (which in large part was washed away by Ida), only protected from storm waves, not storm surge.

Leeville, just north of Grand Isle, was once a more significant town, but was mostly gone before Ida, and Ida destroyed most of what was left.

I think the construction of the LA 1 elevated highway would have never taken place just for Grand Isle. Its only there for Port Forchon, because it is extremely important for oil.

Normal water level in Bayou Lafourche, which runs along LA 1 thru Golden Meadow is even with the level of the road in some places, and is held back by a wall.

Basically, I think in the long run, the entire Mississippi River Delta portion of Louisiana will have to depopulate

[RobbieL2415]

Is there even a part of the US that will never be affected by some sort of natural disaster event? There's earthquakes in the west, tornadoes in the midwest and south, and hurricanes in the gulf and Atlantic coasts.

I've tried to figure this out myself. Kentucky and Tennessee seem to be safe. (I'm including blizzards in the list of natural disasters, which you didn't mention.)

A blizzard is not a natural disaster, it's just a pain in the ass. In a blizzard most of the deaths are people dying of heart attacks removing the snow.

Not in western NY where lake-effect blizzards can dump upwards of 100" of snow.

[webny99]

Is there even a part of the US that will never be affected by some sort of natural disaster event? There's earthquakes in the west, tornadoes in the midwest and south, and hurricanes in the gulf and Atlantic coasts.

I've tried to figure this out myself. Kentucky and Tennessee seem to be safe. (I'm including blizzards in the list of natural disasters, which you didn't mention.)

A blizzard is not a natural disaster, it's just a pain in the ass. In a blizzard most of the deaths are people dying of heart attacks removing the snow.

Not in western NY where lake-effect blizzards can dump upwards of 100" of snow.

However, that much snow is a rare event and certainly not something that happens every season. This area is well-equipped to handle up to 2-3 feet of snow. Anything more than that is rare enough that it could potentially qualify as a natural disaster.

[Rothman]

Is there even a part of the US that will never be affected by some sort of natural disaster event? There's earthquakes in the west, tornadoes in the midwest and south, and hurricanes in the gulf and Atlantic coasts.

I've tried to figure this out myself. Kentucky and Tennessee seem to be safe. (I'm including blizzards in the list of natural disasters, which you didn't mention.)

A blizzard is not a natural disaster, it's just a pain in the ass. In a blizzard most of the deaths are people dying of heart attacks removing the snow.

Not in western NY where lake-effect blizzards can dump upwards of 100" of snow.

However, that much snow is a rare event and certainly not something that happens every season. This area is well-equipped to handle up to 2-3 feet of snow. Anything more than that is rare enough that it could potentially qualify as a natural disaster.

NYSDOT and NYSTA, yes, but localities are less consistent.  City of Syracuse is a standout in terms of shoddy plowing given its Golden Snowball victories.

[Urban Prairie Schooner]

Beats me, and I'm from there. After Katrina I said "Never again."

I thought after Katrina perhaps the people of this state would get some sense and take a serious look at evacuating populated areas that are vulnerable to storm surge-type flooding, among other needed reforms. The levees held this time (Ida) but inevitably they will fail. It is baked into the cake. The political complacency that caused the levees to fail in 2005 has ultimately not abated.

The issue with New Orleans, and Louisiana in general, is not the tax structure or bad politicians or out of control crime and poverty. Those are the symptoms. The cause is a human capital deficit. Like many declining places, the best and the brightest leave once they graduate from university - the classic "brain drain" phenomenon. The upshot is that it leaves a remaining population that is largely poorer, less educated, and apathetic about anything beyond LSU football and Carnival. I realize this is a generalization, and yes there are many smart and talented people who remain here against all odds, but it describes a large number of people here - maybe not the majority but certainly a large plurality.  The government and society we have then comes to reflect the values and mores of the people.  And thus the brain drain is perpetuated further as continued decline sets in.

I would love to see New Orleans and Louisiana turn the corner and succeed, but I am very skeptical that it will ever happen.

[thspfc]

One of my favorite YouTube channels just posted a video on this topic:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dVpEEBcE8tc

[zachary_amaryllis]

I genuinely wonder why people still live in New Orleans in 2021. There's only one way that the story of New Orleans can end, and it's with a hugely devastating flood that leaves the city completely underwater. How do the residents live their lives with the thought that everything they own could, realistically, be literally washed away from them during the next, or ongoing, storm season? With every passing tragic hurricane that hits NOLA I just wonder how anyone still lives there when there are so many other places to be around the US and beyond. And this isn't even getting into the host of non-weather related other issues that the city has. I understand that there are a lot of jobs in New Orleans; yet there's also a major labor shortage in every city around the country. But if you are a resident of NOLA who can afford to leave, yet you haven't, why?

Because of a four-letter word more important than Love: Home. It's their home. Not to mention, frankly, America wouldn't be America without New Orleans. Too much of our national history, culture, even society is tied up in that geographically fragile place.

second that. i've lived in, or near, the city i live in (or near) most of my life. every time i leave, i find myself back here, because my life seems to emanate from this place. we all have our homes, dysfunctional or weird as they (or i) might be.

[thspfc]

I genuinely wonder why people still live in New Orleans in 2021. There's only one way that the story of New Orleans can end, and it's with a hugely devastating flood that leaves the city completely underwater. How do the residents live their lives with the thought that everything they own could, realistically, be literally washed away from them during the next, or ongoing, storm season? With every passing tragic hurricane that hits NOLA I just wonder how anyone still lives there when there are so many other places to be around the US and beyond. And this isn't even getting into the host of non-weather related other issues that the city has. I understand that there are a lot of jobs in New Orleans; yet there's also a major labor shortage in every city around the country. But if you are a resident of NOLA who can afford to leave, yet you haven't, why?

Because of a four-letter word more important than Love: Home. It's their home. Not to mention, frankly, America wouldn't be America without New Orleans. Too much of our national history, culture, even society is tied up in that geographically fragile place.

second that. i've lived in, or near, the city i live in (or near) most of my life. every time i leave, i find myself back here, because my life seems to emanate from this place. we all have our homes, dysfunctional or weird as they (or i) might be.

Colorado is statistically one of the best states to live in. Maybe a little bit different in New Orleans.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I genuinely wonder why people still live in New Orleans in 2021. There's only one way that the story of New Orleans can end, and it's with a hugely devastating flood that leaves the city completely underwater. How do the residents live their lives with the thought that everything they own could, realistically, be literally washed away from them during the next, or ongoing, storm season? With every passing tragic hurricane that hits NOLA I just wonder how anyone still lives there when there are so many other places to be around the US and beyond. And this isn't even getting into the host of non-weather related other issues that the city has. I understand that there are a lot of jobs in New Orleans; yet there's also a major labor shortage in every city around the country. But if you are a resident of NOLA who can afford to leave, yet you haven't, why?

Because of a four-letter word more important than Love: Home. It's their home. Not to mention, frankly, America wouldn't be America without New Orleans. Too much of our national history, culture, even society is tied up in that geographically fragile place.

second that. i've lived in, or near, the city i live in (or near) most of my life. every time i leave, i find myself back here, because my life seems to emanate from this place. we all have our homes, dysfunctional or weird as they (or i) might be.

Colorado is statistically one of the best states to live in. Maybe a little bit different in New Orleans.

But that's starting to conflate with people's personal feelings about places. Many people who grew up in NOLA might stay there precisely because they're trying to make it a better place to live - because it's their home, and someone has to fight for it.

[zachary_amaryllis]

I genuinely wonder why people still live in New Orleans in 2021. There's only one way that the story of New Orleans can end, and it's with a hugely devastating flood that leaves the city completely underwater. How do the residents live their lives with the thought that everything they own could, realistically, be literally washed away from them during the next, or ongoing, storm season? With every passing tragic hurricane that hits NOLA I just wonder how anyone still lives there when there are so many other places to be around the US and beyond. And this isn't even getting into the host of non-weather related other issues that the city has. I understand that there are a lot of jobs in New Orleans; yet there's also a major labor shortage in every city around the country. But if you are a resident of NOLA who can afford to leave, yet you haven't, why?

Because of a four-letter word more important than Love: Home. It's their home. Not to mention, frankly, America wouldn't be America without New Orleans. Too much of our national history, culture, even society is tied up in that geographically fragile place.

second that. i've lived in, or near, the city i live in (or near) most of my life. every time i leave, i find myself back here, because my life seems to emanate from this place. we all have our homes, dysfunctional or weird as they (or i) might be.

Colorado is statistically one of the best states to live in. Maybe a little bit different in New Orleans.

slightly drier.

[SSOWorld]

'cause they can.

[thspfc]

'cause they can.

For now, at least.