Largest waste of money for roads in your state?

[JoePCool14]

Can't think of one in PA. PennDOT doesn't spend money.

So PennDOT's largest waste of money is not spending any of it? Or do they not get enough money from the state itself?

[wanderer2575]

In Michigan?

<snip>

• MDOT taking over and reconstructing the Davison Freeway (M-8) instead of converting it back to surface street. Not like it's ever going to reach I-96 or I-94.

A surface street was MDOT's original plan.  The political brouhaha that ensued resulted in reconstructing the freeway.  And while the freeway will never extend on either end, what's there gets quite a bit of use as a connector between M-10 and I-75.

• The proposal to eliminate I-375, which unlike M-8, is definitely needed.

Six years after your post, I-375 is very much in need of complete reconstruction.  So pay to replace it or pay to remove it.  I question the need for a freeway; I generally see very little traffic using it.

[andrepoiy]

In Ontario, I'd say it's the Highway 407 East project. The Highway 407 East project was an eastern extension to Highway 407 ETR, except that this time it's owned by the government. It also included the new toll freeways of Highway 412 and Highway 418. The government tolls are cheaper than the ETR's, and the toll structure is also less convoluted.

However, almost nobody uses them, since they are rural freeways that are tolled 29 cents/km during peak hours for light vehicles.

You can tell the usage of the freeways on Google Streetview:

Highway 407 near Brooklin, Ontario:


Highway 412 near Rossland Road:


Compare this to Highway 35/115, which parallels Highway 418 but is 12 km to the east, this is a Right-in-right-out expressway and it has more traffic.



If these freeways were free to use, I think there'd be a lot more traffic and it'll be a lot more useful to local residents. However, since it gets so little traffic, I'd say that they're a big waste of money. How are they supposed to pay off the bonds with tolls if so few people drive on it?

[Big John]

^^ So what you up there is shunpiking.

[ahj2000]

I-73 as a whole in the NC/VA has bothered me.
North of Greensboro, it's a lot of money to completely upgrade US220 to freeway status, when a divided highway would be more fitting to the traffic and much cheaper.
South of Rockingham, take I 74 south to Myrtle instead of the weird Almost-Wilmington Elbow. Route a new I-36/38 to Charlotte if you really need an interstate there.

[epzik8]

I really can't think of any for Maryland. In my lifetime, both the MD 43 extension to Middle River and MD 200 have served practical purposes, and the I-95 Express Toll Lanes and MD 404 widening have accommodated increased traffic.

[jeffandnicole]

^^ So what you up there is shunpiking.

Depends.  Shunpiking is taking a longer, higher mileage, more time, convoluted route to avoid paying a toll.  Some people want to term any route that avoids a toll a shunpike, even when the toll-free routing is the most sensible anyway.

Also...if someone is used to a specific route, and another one opens up, they may not necessarily be shunpiking, but rather just feel comfortable taking the old route.  I've seen that even when new, toll-free alternatives open up.

[webny99]

Shunpiking is taking a longer, higher mileage, more time, convoluted route to avoid paying a toll.

I don't necessarily think a shunpike has to be all of those. Taking more time is the main one - there are plenty of routes I'd consider shunpiking that are shorter mileage-wise than their tolled counterparts. Here's a PA example. And a Western NY example.

[jeffandnicole]

I really can't think of any for Maryland. In my lifetime, both the MD 43 extension to Middle River and MD 200 have served practical purposes, and the I-95 Express Toll Lanes and MD 404 widening have accommodated increased traffic.

But, have those 95 ETLs lived up to expectations?  I tried hard to locate some info about their actual vs. expected revenues.  Best I could find was actual revenues, using page 24 of this PDF (Report page 2-9): https://mdta.maryland.gov/sites/default/files/Files/Financial_Forecast/FY2021%20T%26R%20Forecast%20Update%20Systemwide%20Final%20Report%20v3_FINAL.pdf .  It shows in 2019, about $14 Million was derived from the 95 ETLs, and had been increasing by about 5% - 6% each of the previous 2 years.  (2020 was lower, for obvious reasons).

One link to a revenue forecast I found is inactive (http://www.i-95expresstolllanes.com/linked_files/I-95_Master_Plan/I-95_MasterPlan.pdf#page=23) and there doesn't seem to be much else out there.  Even newspaper sites, that at one point were supposed to be the source of investigation to determine if the government is acting on the public's best interest, is noticeably silent about the issue.

So, $14 million per year is better than $0 per year, but since the toll lanes incurred additional costs for ramps, signage, tolling equipment, barriers from the non-tolled lanes, wider and longer wider bridges, traffic lights, etc, all of those extra costs need to be added up to determine if the project was truly a success.  If a similar expansion with 5 or 6 lanes on a single roadway could've been done for $500 million vs. this dual roadway plan for $1.1 Billion, that would mean the toll lanes need to raise $600 million in revenue to be successful (plus bond interest). Remember...the original plan were for the ETLs to be longer, and incorporate a full interchange with 695 too...and the actual costs to build the smaller project were higher than the original plan. The prospect of variable tolls based on traffic flow was reduced to fixed tolling rates at specific times of day. 

I would chalk this up to one of MD's largest wastes of money, because the project went well over budget and the revenue sources were greatly reduced. 

[jeffandnicole]

Shunpiking is taking a longer, higher mileage, more time, convoluted route to avoid paying a toll.

I don't necessarily think a shunpike has to be all of those. Taking more time is the main one - there are plenty of routes I'd consider shunpiking that are shorter mileage-wise than their tolled counterparts. Here's a PA example. And a Western NY example.

No doubt...and it will highly depend on one's actual starting and ending point and circumstances.  Using the PA Turnpike example, the cheapest toll would be $9.90.  The non-tolled route saves 8 miles, which is roughly a dollar's worth of gas, but adds 20 minutes. 

Is that a shunpike?  Tough to say.  If you solely look at time, then yes.  If you look at the full picture, it's less so.  If I'm running late for an important event, I would say take the Turnpike.  If I figure I have extra time available, I'll save the money.

But what about the frequently shunpiked Delaware I-95 tolls?  If I'm coming from Newark and going to Harve de Grace, conventional wisdom may say to get to I-95 in Delaware and head South.  Or, I could take 279 from DE into Maryland.  It's roughly 1/4 mile shorter, I'm only driving about 2 minutes longer, and I'm saving $4.  I'm not really shunpiking at that point, because it's really the most obvious route to take, even if it's not the absolute fastest route.

[roadman65]

The Road Diet Test in Lakeland, Florida for FL 37 into Downtown from Dixieland.

[jmacswimmer]

I really can't think of any for Maryland. In my lifetime, both the MD 43 extension to Middle River and MD 200 have served practical purposes, and the I-95 Express Toll Lanes and MD 404 widening have accommodated increased traffic.

But, have those 95 ETLs lived up to expectations?
...
I would chalk this up to one of MD's largest wastes of money, because the project went well over budget and the revenue sources were greatly reduced.

I've always held the view on the overall JFK Highway master plan that it won't really be worth it until fully built out - but of course, that's a long ways off (if ever).

It's somewhat ironic that direct ramps from I-695 to the ETL's was a budget casualty, because having those connections would lead to much higher utilization (read: $$$) of the current segment.  For someone like me who always gets onto I-95 from I-695 (because of where I live), the ETL's currently have zero utility.

We'll see what happens when the northbound-only (for now) extension opens to exit 77 - it'll be helpful on weekdays since commuter traffic drops off past Bel Air, but on weekends it might make the existing bottleneck at exit 77 worse than it already is.

[mgk920]

Not my state, but I would suspect that the biggest waste of money for roads to those in Pennsylvania is the toll for driving the Pennsylvania Turnpike.



Mike

[midwesternroadguy]

I'm going to get a lot of flack over this one, particularly from Rochesterians, but in Minnesota, the US 52 bypass expansion in Rochester was way overbuilt in the 2000s.  As one who was Commuting in Rochester daily, the highway was never at capacity when it was 4 lanes.  Rochester will tell you differently.  However, the Level of Service has never reached a level seen on most Twin Cities freeways.  This was a payback to political/Mayo Clinic machinery.  To this day, four lanes would be sufficient.  Granted, some interchanges needed improvements, and still do (55th Street, 19th Street).  The money should have been used elsewhere. 

[Roadgeekteen]

We underspend, not overspend

[ftballfan]

The Road Diet Test in Lakeland, Florida for FL 37 into Downtown from Dixieland.

I've been on it recently and it looks like it had to have been done very recently