Largest waste of money for roads in your state?

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Why all questions have to end with 'in your state'? That way I can't answer simply because I don't have a state to go with.

Anyway, I'm not answering for my country either, because if I start then I would never end .

[national highway 1]

My interstate plan for the California Delta region




I-70 is my planned extension of I-70 in California

I-72 is part of my planned of I-72 into California

I-74 is my planned Carson City to San Francisco Interstate

I-76 is my western I-76 to

I-505 gets its long needed completion is a bypass road for travellers on I-5

I-701 replaces I-880 and CA-17 all the way down to my I-1 in Santa Cruz

I-570, I-670 and I-770 replace I-580, I-680 and I-780 respectively

I-774 is a long needed upgrade of "blood alley" to freeway.

I-776 replaces Columbus parkway

I-870 replaces CA-13 and also makes the remaining part of the highway freeway all the way to my I-74 (currently I-80/580) in Berkeley. Ashby Avenue is replaced with a freeway

I-872 replaces Vasco Road

I-907 is the Antioch to Auburn toll road proposed on one now defunct interstate highway page.

I-970 is a freeway that would run from Walnut Creek all the way to Ocean Beach in San Francisco, building one of four new bridges accross the bay in my plan

Fritzowl.


iPhone

[ZLoth]

The biggest waste of money in California has got to be the new SF-Oakland Bay Bridge. There is no argument that the bridge needed replacing after the 1989 Loma-Prieta Earthquake, but the cost was massively increased due to the locals desire to have a "showcase bridge". A couple of billion later, and the bridge has problems.

[KEVIN_224]

Let's see how much of a waste the Busway is when it opens on March 28th. I want to ride on it...but how many others will?

Maybe if the money was spent on rail, the commuter rail improvements between New Haven and Springfield, MA would be further along? It's going to be interesting once that project is done, since the new Busway uses some of the Amtrak ROW from the Newington Junction area to Hartford's Union Station.

[SteveG1988]

Two fairly big wastes of money in the Philly area would be the Commodore Barry Bridge and the Betsy Ross Bridge. Both in theory should have higher traffic volumes, but due to not building the roads they connect to up to freeway standards (322 in NJ, never built PA90) the roads are underused. The Betsy Ross Bridge has lower traffic counts than the non limited access toll bridge to the north which charges less. I do use the Betsy Ross Bridge when i have to connect to I-95 as it is a quicker connection.

For a NJ freeway that I feel is a total waste of money, the NJ29 tunnel. It was a built that way due to local residents not wanting to view a freeway, but it went over budget. And due to the same local groups they could not build a direct connection as a freeway to the existing NJ29, they had to put in traffic lights, making the tunnel back up at times.

[roadman65]

Oh yes and those towers that are supposed to look like Cable Stay Bridge towers on the long Lake Underhill Causeway on the Four oh Eight, are money that should have never been spent. 

It was to create a gateway to Orlando from the east for travelers heading into O Town on FL 408, but it really does not do much for the road.  Heck those ugly spires on the Conroy Road overpass (which I hate too) do more for aesthetics than these eyesores for a gateway into the city.

Then how about the FL 451 project taking away the bridges that carried the former FL 429 over FL 414 when the new FL 429 was built to Plymouth to align itself with the future Wekiva Parkway project?  Those particular bridges were fairly new and constructed only a few years prior to their destruction.

Plus the elimination of the high speed connection between FL 408 E Bound and FL 417 N Bound using the old E-W Expressway grade, as well as its counterpart from FL 417 S Bound to FL 408 W Bound?  Thus removing a totally freeway grade for a good distance all in favor a flyover ramps at another location.   

I call all of these a total waste!

[1995hoo]

....

I feel like the impact a toll has on people's willingness to use a road tends to be underestimated in traffic projections. Note how the ICC in Maryland has been suffering from similar lackluster usage. If you want a toll road to be successful you either need it to offer MASSIVE time savings over any alternatives, have it be the only way to get somewhere, or have all practical alternatives also be tolled. VA 895 is none of these three things.

No kidding. The resistance to paying any toll on the Beltway can be astonishing. In the video below from December 2013, traffic entering the express lanes in Tysons would have paid 90¢ to go to Maryland and maybe 30¢ to go to the Dulles Toll Road. I can kind of understand why some people might not think it's worth the toll to Maryland on a Saturday night since presumably they have no set deadline they need to meet and they'd still wind up back out with all the slow traffic–you're paying to jump the queue, in essence. But I don't understand sitting in that traffic to save 30¢ to the Dulles exit when it's so easy and fast to bypass it. (In our case, you hear me refer to a $2.85 toll, but we had come from the lanes' southern end and we did need to be somewhere by a specific time due to a dinner reservation.)

I have an easier time understanding some people's resistance to paying the rush-hour tolls, as those are usually a lot higher and can add up pretty quickly. I also certainly understand the rationale for avoiding certain obvious tolls that come across as a middle-finger gesture, such as the Delaware Turnpike toll or the northbound one south of the canal on Delaware Route 1 or the Exit 44 "Tourist Exit" toll on the Maine Turnpike. They're all extremely easy to avoid without delaying yourself in any substantial way.

[PHLBOS]

Two fairly big wastes of money in the Philly area would be the Commodore Barry Bridge and the Betsy Ross Bridge. Both in theory should have higher traffic volumes, but due to not building the roads they connect to up to freeway standards (322 in NJ, never built PA90) the roads are underused. The Betsy Ross Bridge has lower traffic counts than the non limited access toll bridge to the north which charges less. I do use the Betsy Ross Bridge when i have to connect to I-95 as it is a quicker connection.

While such can be said for the Betsy Ross Bridge; I wouldn't completely say similar for the Commodore Barry Bridge; the latter replaced a ferry and the nearest bridges (Walt Whitman & the Delaware Memorial) are far enough away to justify the Barry Bridge's existence. 

I'm almost certain that traffic counts for that bridge increased when I-476 was finally fully completed in the early 90s.

Granted, the Commodore Barry Bridge would probably see more traffic if US 322 were an expressway all the way to NJ 55.  One has to wonder once the missing moves are added to the I-76/295/NJ 42 interchange (mainly I-295 North to NJ 42 South) whether or not that might stimulate more traffic on the Barry Bridge.

[jeffandnicole]

Two fairly big wastes of money in the Philly area would be the Commodore Barry Bridge and the Betsy Ross Bridge. Both in theory should have higher traffic volumes, but due to not building the roads they connect to up to freeway standards (322 in NJ, never built PA90) the roads are underused. The Betsy Ross Bridge has lower traffic counts than the non limited access toll bridge to the north which charges less. I do use the Betsy Ross Bridge when i have to connect to I-95 as it is a quicker connection.

While such can be said for the Betsy Ross Bridge; I wouldn't completely say similar for the Commodore Barry Bridge; the latter replaced a ferry and the nearest bridges (Walt Whitman & the Delaware Memorial) are far enough away to justify the Barry Bridge's existence. 

I'm almost certain that traffic counts for that bridge increased when I-476 was finally fully completed in the early 90s.

Granted, the Commodore Barry Bridge would probably see more traffic if US 322 were an expressway all the way to NJ 55.  One has to wonder once the missing moves are added to the I-76/295/NJ 42 interchange (mainly I-295 North to NJ 42 South) whether or not that might stimulate more traffic on the Barry Bridge.

Maybe if the DRPA didn't keep raising the tolls, more people would use it.  No doubt it's a faster ride than the Tacony, but for commuters, saving $3 a day is a big deal.  I would bet the volume of traffic enjoying the free ride back to NJ is a bit heavier.  (Also, since I don't drive it much, is the 45 mph limit a gigantic speed trap, or do they show a bit of leniency)?

The 295/42 missing moves are enjoying the same timeframe as the 95/PA Turnpike missing moves.  NJDOT doesn't appear to be in much of a rush to get them done, and have continually pushed back the timeframe of construction.  This is now a $150 million project - just for these ramps.  In 2013, the project was scheduled for funding starting in FY16.  In 2014, all but $4 million was pushed to FY17.  The fact that they kept a very small bit of funding in FY16 is considered progress in my book.

[PHLBOS]

Maybe if the DRPA didn't keep raising the tolls, more people would use it.  No doubt it's a faster ride than the Tacony, but for commuters, saving $3 a day is a big deal.  I would bet the volume of traffic enjoying the free ride back to NJ is a bit heavier.  (Also, since I don't drive it much, is the 45 mph limit a gigantic speed trap, or do they show a bit of leniency)?

Had the DRPA not spent toll money for non-transportation related projects (something they did for at least 10 to 15 years); the tolls would probably still be at $4 or even $3 with no revenue shortfall for maintenance projects.

As far as the 45 limit is concerned; such is the maximum speed limit for all DRPA bridges.  Had the Tacony/Pulaski Expressway been built, could the DRPA raised the speed limit on the Betsy to 50 or 55?  Who knows?

[Zeffy]

For a NJ freeway that I feel is a total waste of money, the NJ29 tunnel. It was a built that way due to local residents not wanting to view a freeway, but it went over budget. And due to the same local groups they could not build a direct connection as a freeway to the existing NJ29, they had to put in traffic lights, making the tunnel back up at times.

I don't think this was a waste of money. It allowed Trenton to regain a bit of it's pride (the 'HISTORIC TRENTON' on the tunnel as you enter the city), while also providing a connection from I-195, as well as I-295 and the South Jersey area. The traffic isn't that bad, and the signal timing is pretty good for Cass and Warren Streets. It allows a lot of workers in the city to bypass the residential sections and immediately access the downtown area (where most of the offices are clustered).

The 295/42 missing moves are enjoying the same timeframe as the 95/PA Turnpike missing moves.  NJDOT doesn't appear to be in much of a rush to get them done, and have continually pushed back the timeframe of construction.  This is now a $150 million project - just for these ramps.  In 2013, the project was scheduled for funding starting in FY16.  In 2014, all but $4 million was pushed to FY17.  The fact that they kept a very small bit of funding in FY16 is considered progress in my book.

Really? When I went down to Camden last year it looked like they were moving at a decent pace. It seems like a lot of road projects in New Jersey that aren't related to the Turnpike Authority have serious timeframe issues (206 bypass........). What about the project to improve the US 46 / NJ 3 merge? Has that even been started, or is it still in finalizing stages of preparation?

[texaskdog]

All Texas toll roads.  They are overpriced and few drive on them.

[PHLBOS]

The 295/42 missing moves are enjoying the same timeframe as the 95/PA Turnpike missing moves.  NJDOT doesn't appear to be in much of a rush to get them done, and have continually pushed back the timeframe of construction.  This is now a $150 million project - just for these ramps.  In 2013, the project was scheduled for funding starting in FY16.  In 2014, all but $4 million was pushed to FY17.  The fact that they kept a very small bit of funding in FY16 is considered progress in my book.

Really? When I went down to Camden last year it looked like they were moving at a decent pace.

The construction you're seeing is part of the straightening of I-295 project in that area (aka Goodbye Al-Jo Curve).  The missing moves, IIRC was originally part of the overall 295 project; has either been moved to either a later phase, add-alternate or a separate project.  Jeffandnicole can confirm/clarify/correct.

[jeffandnicole]

For a NJ freeway that I feel is a total waste of money, the NJ29 tunnel. It was a built that way due to local residents not wanting to view a freeway, but it went over budget. And due to the same local groups they could not build a direct connection as a freeway to the existing NJ29, they had to put in traffic lights, making the tunnel back up at times.

I don't think this was a waste of money. It allowed Trenton to regain a bit of it's pride (the 'HISTORIC TRENTON' on the tunnel as you enter the city), while also providing a connection from I-195, as well as I-295 and the South Jersey area. The traffic isn't that bad, and the signal timing is pretty good for Cass and Warren Streets. It allows a lot of workers in the city to bypass the residential sections and immediately access the downtown area (where most of the offices are clustered).

Come by during rush hour in the morning, when 29 is routinely backed up from 295 all the way to Cass Street.  In the afternoon, traffic congests as well getting thru those lights again.  Generally speaking, employees start their day between 7:30 and 9:30am, so there's already a large window of staggered work shifts.

It definitely has improved access for South Jersey residents getting to Trenton, compared first to no Rt. 29/129 in the area whatsoever, then with motorists having to narrow down to 1 lane thru the missing area of 29 which was 1 lane each way on Lumberton Ave.  However, the project could have been done at a much lower cost by removing the tunnel portion of it, and just making it a 4 lane highway.   The roof of the tunnel was supposed to be so residents could avoid looking at the tunnel and have a nice landscaped area, except the tunnel had to be built higher than originally anticipated, so many of those residents look at a wall unless they're on the top floor of their house.

Having said all of that, the walk on top of the tunnel provides a nice history of the city.  Definitely worth someone's time to walk it.  But for the tens of millions of $$, we could've done without it.

The 295/42 missing moves are enjoying the same timeframe as the 95/PA Turnpike missing moves.  NJDOT doesn't appear to be in much of a rush to get them done, and have continually pushed back the timeframe of construction.  This is now a $150 million project - just for these ramps.  In 2013, the project was scheduled for funding starting in FY16.  In 2014, all but $4 million was pushed to FY17.  The fact that they kept a very small bit of funding in FY16 is considered progress in my book.

Really? When I went down to Camden last year it looked like they were moving at a decent pace.

The construction you're seeing is part of the straightening of I-295 project in that area (aka Goodbye Al-Jo Curve).  The missing moves, IIRC was originally part of the overall 295 project; has either been moved to either a later phase, add-alternate or a separate project.  Jeffandnicole can confirm/clarify/correct.

I don't believe the missing moves were ever part of the main interchange project.  I do recall that the missing moves were originally scheduled to be built before construction commenced on the main interchange project.  Since 295 North to 42 South traffic had to go thru the existing interchange twice (same is true from 42 North to 295 South), both NJDOT & the Feds figured the missing moves would relieve the interchange of that additional traffic.  NJDOT determined the overall percent of traffic going thru the interchange twice was relatively small, and the Feds agreed, so that issue went away.

Even then, the missing move ramps were to be built first anyway, but then a developer wanting to build a large scale development on top of a capped landfill in Bellmawr (which was to include a Bass Pro Shop & indoor arena) threw his 20 pound wrench into things, wanting easier highway access to his proposed development.  Bellmawr and NJDOT held off on the project again to allow the developer time to present his point.  But then something happened, which caught the developer off guard.  Apparently, when businesses valued in the billions of dollars want to look for a new location, one of the turnoffs is a large, massive, construction project which will potentially keep customers away from their business.  If the timeline of the highway and development was the same, everything would be cool.  When the timeline for the main 295 interchange project would be several years after the development's planned opening, cool it is not.  Thus, the developer lost his leverage when his potential businesses wouldn't commit to the development.

Now, it's just a waiting game with funding and such.  And other 20 pound wrenches, of course.

[jeffandnicole]

During the meetings and public presentations, the most the missing moves got mentioned was a small line where the ramps are proposed to go.  They were never discussed otherwise, unless someone brought them up (which did happen often).

While we want to think that everyone in NJDOT knows about everything NJDOT does, the reality is more like any typical office setting.  I have my job to do.  The guy in the office next to mind has his job to do.  I don't know much if anything what he does, and he doesn't know what I do. 

Thus, most people working on the main 295 interchange have nothing to do with the missing moves.  And if they do have any knowledge of it, they aren't permitted to publicly talk about it.

[PColumbus73]

Then how about the FL 451 project taking away the bridges that carried the former FL 429 over FL 414 when the new FL 429 was built to Plymouth to align itself with the future Wekiva Parkway project?  Those particular bridges were fairly new and constructed only a few years prior to their destruction.

Plus the elimination of the high speed connection between FL 408 E Bound and FL 417 N Bound using the old E-W Expressway grade, as well as its counterpart from FL 417 S Bound to FL 408 W Bound?  Thus removing a totally freeway grade for a good distance all in favor a flyover ramps at another location.   

I call all of these a total waste!

Does anyone know why they removed the high-speed ramps from FL 408 E to FL 417 N? That seems like a huge backpedal, not to mention millions spent to REMOVE a good freeway connection.

[NE2]

Weaving between that and 50, for one. The current ramps are still pretty high speed.

[Tom958]

In Georgia, too many of the GRIP corridors:  nearly-deserted four lane highways across the trackless wastes of rural Georgia.

[US81]

All Texas toll roads.  They are overpriced and few drive on them.

Agreed. Some of the newer ones also seem too far away from the areas they supposedly serve in order to be meeting the needs they're supposed to be meeting: Toll 45, Toll 49, Toll 130, and Toll 255 in particular.

[codyg1985]

In Georgia, too many of the GRIP corridors:  nearly-deserted four lane highways across the trackless wastes of rural Georgia.

On the same vein, I would have to say that four-laning US 64 across southern Tennessee is also a waste. It doesn't get a lot of traffic, and it isn't built to have really great bypasses of the towns. Some of the towns (like Lawrenceburg) will have US 64 bypass the town with an interchange at US 43, but Fayetteville has a setup to where you have to turn to get onto the bypass. If it was truly built to bypass all of the towns, then it would be a great alternative to US 72 between Memphis and Chattanooga.

[SP Cook]

WV's biggest waste is the triangle of roads formed by US 50 (Corridor D), I-79 and I-77 between Parkersburg, Charleston and Clarksburg.

50, 80 miles of construction, runs though the middle of nowhere, an area not amenable to development and thus, 40 years in, still undeveloped.  79, 120 miles of construction, likewise travels though areas without economic potential. 

Eliminate either 77 or 79 and you only add 20 miles of travel between Clarksburg and Parkersburg.  100 or 120 miles of construction to save only 20 miles, is a waste.  Do what the original Turnpike wanted to do, which is a single road, slightly to the east of the where 77 ended up, with a branch off to Clarksburg and billions would have been saved.

[on_wisconsin]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but...

The vast majority of the WIS 26-to-freeway upgrades, while fun'ish to track, are realistically an unnecessary waste of state money. Once the I-39/90 upgrade is done, most of that stretch (outside of the Water, Fort, and Jeff bypasses) will most likely be at less then full freeway needed levels of AADT.

[PColumbus73]

WV's biggest waste is the triangle of roads formed by US 50 (Corridor D), I-79 and I-77 between Parkersburg, Charleston and Clarksburg.

50, 80 miles of construction, runs though the middle of nowhere, an area not amenable to development and thus, 40 years in, still undeveloped.  79, 120 miles of construction, likewise travels though areas without economic potential. 

Eliminate either 77 or 79 and you only add 20 miles of travel between Clarksburg and Parkersburg.  100 or 120 miles of construction to save only 20 miles, is a waste.  Do what the original Turnpike wanted to do, which is a single road, slightly to the east of the where 77 ended up, with a branch off to Clarksburg and billions would have been saved.

I don't think the terrain that I-77, 79 and US 50 travel through help matters either. I've driven I-77 from Charleston to the Ravenwood Bridge and it is just as mountainous as the Turnpike. I rode across US 50 when I was younger, but I don't remember it very well.

I-77, I-79 and US 50 are great if you're traveling through West Virginia, but if I were a businessman, I don't think I'd want to set up shop in the mountains in the middle of nowhere. (I love the scenery of WV though.)

[hbelkins]

I've traveled 79 a lot more than I have 77, but there is very little of note between the the Elkview and Flatwoods exits on 79. Then it's 30 more miles to Weston. At least Ripley's there to kinda serve as a halfway point between Charleston and Parkersburg on 77.

As for US 50, I've only driven it three times (twice eastbound and once westbound). Last time I drove it was about 18 months ago. I didn't remember it being as crooked as it is, but it's certainly desolate. Seems like there may have been one fast food place (a McDonald's) at West Union, but there's sure not much else.

[lepidopteran]

Not my state, but what about the PA Turnpike's two projects:  The Mon-Fayette Expressway, and the Southern Beltway?

The completed section of the Mon-Fayette north of Uniontown sees some use, but IMHO not really enough to justify its cost over improving some of the existing roads. (Not that I don't enjoy the free-flow between US-40 and I-70) South of Uniontown, the road pretty much parallels I-79; it would have been way more useful to have continued southeast instead to meet up with I-68 at a point 40-50 miles east of where it does now, making it a useful alternate route for the overcrowded PA Turnpike mainline (hey, they'd be getting tolls anyway.)  Ironically, the section of the Mon-Fayette that would be the most practical, from PA-51 to the Parkway East, will probably never be built.

As for the Southern Beltway, I wonder how much usage the only completed section -- that stub between Parkway West and US-22 -- gets.  Although I can't say for certain how justified the rest of the Southern Beltway is, I do seem to recall that east-west travel in the area can be kind of slow due all the hills in the region.