PA Turnpike News

[ARMOURERERIC]

Thanks for posting the 10 year plan link.  A lot of disappointment  there, but some curious moves:  The Cranberry to Warrendale  barrier total reconstruction will start FY2020, but rather than resume many delayed sections, there is a huge line item over many years for the mainline 99-110 work, which I thought was done about 20 years ago.  Could this involve additional lanes?  Also, about 6 miles of work from the bottom of the hill east of the Allegheny  Tunnel towards Bedford is included, but it appears to be mostly ROW from Irwin to 28.

[BigRedDog]

...there is a huge line item over many years for the mainline 99-110 work, which I thought was done about 20 years ago.  Could this involve additional lanes? ...

FWIW, there has been a lot of tree clearing in the area in that last half year, particularly on the EB side.

[jeffandnicole]

Eh..."developing plans" can be a far cry from actually moving forward.

The next tab there: https://www.patpconstruction.com/scrantonbeltway/detail.aspx , is probably more important, which shows construction won't begin until 2022.
But the most important link and document on the PTC website is the actual Capital Plan, which shows the budget for the upcoming 10 years.  The current plan, https://www.paturnpike.com/pdfs/business/FY2020_Capital_Plan.pdf , reveals on Page 6 that funding for this project is continuing, and does confirm that prelim engineering is underway, and based on the costs the project is scheduled to begin in FY 2023, which could mean Calendar Year 2022 (I think their FY is July - June).

It would be nice to see cost estimates, but they might not be quite there yet --

Preliminary Engineering: Spring 2019 - Fall 2020
Open House Plans Display - Fall 2020

What do you mean you would like to see cost estimates?  That Capital Plan link contains the cost estimates for every year for every project listed.  That's literally what a Capital Plan is!

[Crown Victoria]

The Act 44 lawsuit has been appealed to the Supreme Court:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2019/12/12/Truckers-turn-to-U-S-Supreme-Court-over-Turnpike-toll-diversion/stories/201912120135

[jeffandnicole]

The Act 44 lawsuit has been appealed to the Supreme Court:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2019/12/12/Truckers-turn-to-U-S-Supreme-Court-over-Turnpike-toll-diversion/stories/201912120135

I would be surprised if the Supreme Court heard it, and would be even more surprised if they overturn it.

And overturning it could have severe ramifications. What if I applied that to every product I purchase? What benefit am I getting if a company charges more than necessary with the extra money going towards their annual holiday party or bonuses? Does their president flying first class benefit me when he could've done a conference call?

I haven't foreseen these truckers winning a lawsuit yet, and they're continuing to throw money out the window with these lawsuits.

[SignBridge]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

[Crown Victoria]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

The Act 44 lawsuit has been appealed to the Supreme Court:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2019/12/12/Truckers-turn-to-U-S-Supreme-Court-over-Turnpike-toll-diversion/stories/201912120135

I would be surprised if the Supreme Court heard it, and would be even more surprised if they overturn it.

And overturning it could have severe ramifications. What if I applied that to every product I purchase? What benefit am I getting if a company charges more than necessary with the extra money going towards their annual holiday party or bonuses? Does their president flying first class benefit me when he could've done a conference call?

I haven't foreseen these tuckers winning a lawsuit yet, and they're continuing to throw money out the window with these lawsuits.

I agree with you both...the truckers have a better chance of seeing relief through legislative action, which might just happen sooner rather than later.

[ixnay]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

Are any of the other long distance toll roads as much of a ripoff as the PA Turnpike?

ixnay

[02 Park Ave]

All of the bridges and tunnels in the New York City area are.

This could be monumental!  Just think of the GWB toll being rolled back to 50¢.

[jeffandnicole]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

Are any of the other long distance toll roads as much of a ripoff as the PA Turnpike?

ixnay?

The PA Turnpike will roughly be about 18 cents per mile.

On a per mile basis, Delaware's I-95 is $4 for 11 miles, or 36.3 cents per mile.

[Beltway]

Are any of the other long distance toll roads as much of a ripoff as the PA Turnpike?

The PA Turnpike will roughly be about 18 cents per mile.

They do have about a $5.5 billion capital project program in the next 10 years.

That will be a -lot- of widening projects.

[cpzilliacus]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

If the truckers and other toll road patrons want to stop abuses of toll collecting powers to keep other taxes low (which is what Act 44 was about and Act 89 is (to some extent) about), then Congress needs to step in by imposing statutory limits on how much debt (on which interest on that debt is exempt from federal taxation) that agencies like PTC can issue for projects that have nothing to do with the toll roads that they operate   

Ideally, there would also be restrictions on how much cash that toll road operators can divert to non-toll road uses (and I do not mean improvements to a "free" highway segment that leads directly to a toll road or toll crossing).

[vdeane]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

Are any of the other long distance toll roads as much of a ripoff as the PA Turnpike?

ixnay?

The PA Turnpike will roughly be about 18 cents per mile.

On a per mile basis, Delaware's I-95 is $4 for 11 miles, or 36.3 cents per mile.

I'd hardly call I-95 in DE a long-distance toll road.  It's more of a border toll.  It is a ripoff , though.  IMO the feds should have stepped in and forced DE to finish the plan to remove the tolls.  Same for all the other northeast toll roads, too.

[Alps]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

Are any of the other long distance toll roads as much of a ripoff as the PA Turnpike?

ixnay?

The PA Turnpike will roughly be about 18 cents per mile.

On a per mile basis, Delaware's I-95 is $4 for 11 miles, or 36.3 cents per mile.

I'd hardly call I-95 in DE a long-distance toll road.  It's more of a border toll.  It is a ripoff , though.  IMO the feds should have stepped in and forced DE to finish the plan to remove the tolls.  Same for all the other northeast toll roads, too.

I do not support Federal overreach. The state granted those charters and it's a state's right issue.

[jeffandnicole]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

Are any of the other long distance toll roads as much of a ripoff as the PA Turnpike?

ixnay?

The PA Turnpike will roughly be about 18 cents per mile.

On a per mile basis, Delaware's I-95 is $4 for 11 miles, or 36.3 cents per mile.

I'd hardly call I-95 in DE a long-distance toll road.  It's more of a border toll.  It is a ripoff , though.  IMO the feds should have stepped in and forced DE to finish the plan to remove the tolls.  Same for all the other northeast toll roads, too.

If the feds forced toll removal, then to make up the difference to the states the feds will likely have to increase transportation funding, or take from other states. So in the long run it hurts the feds, and being it comes out of our pockets, it hurts us too!

[Rothman]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

Are any of the other long distance toll roads as much of a ripoff as the PA Turnpike?

ixnay?

The PA Turnpike will roughly be about 18 cents per mile.

On a per mile basis, Delaware's I-95 is $4 for 11 miles, or 36.3 cents per mile.

I'd hardly call I-95 in DE a long-distance toll road.  It's more of a border toll.  It is a ripoff , though.  IMO the feds should have stepped in and forced DE to finish the plan to remove the tolls.  Same for all the other northeast toll roads, too.

If the feds forced toll removal, then to make up the difference to the states the feds will likely have to increase transportation funding, or take from other states. So in the long run it hurts the feds, and being it comes out of our pockets, it hurts us too!

All for that rather than live with the historically sketchy finances of public authorities.

[Crown Victoria]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

Are any of the other long distance toll roads as much of a ripoff as the PA Turnpike?

ixnay?

The PA Turnpike will roughly be about 18 cents per mile.

On a per mile basis, Delaware's I-95 is $4 for 11 miles, or 36.3 cents per mile.

I'd hardly call I-95 in DE a long-distance toll road.  It's more of a border toll.  It is a ripoff , though.  IMO the feds should have stepped in and forced DE to finish the plan to remove the tolls.  Same for all the other northeast toll roads, too.

If the feds forced toll removal, then to make up the difference to the states the feds will likely have to increase transportation funding, or take from other states. So in the long run it hurts the feds, and being it comes out of our pockets, it hurts us too!

All for that rather than live with the historically sketchy finances of public authorities.

On a cash basis, undoubtedly the most expensive long-distance toll road in the US (say over 50 miles or so) is the PA Turnpike.  However, if my calculations are correct (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), your most expensive ride using a transponder would be if you're using an out-of-state EZ Pass on the West Virginia Turnpike, where you'll pay $0.136 per mile for the privilege.  As of next year the PA Turnpike would only be $0.123 per mile with any state's EZ Pass. (Don't worry, we'll take the lead eventually!)

[vdeane]

If the feds forced toll removal, then to make up the difference to the states the feds will likely have to increase transportation funding, or take from other states. So in the long run it hurts the feds, and being it comes out of our pockets, it hurts us too!

Go for it.  I'm very much supportive of Eisenhower's vision of a national toll-free network of highways.

[SignBridge]

Vdeane, in a perfect world I might well agree with you (and the state of California). But in the real world of highways, you can't escape the fact that the toll turnpikes in the Northeast are generally better maintained and provide better services than the toll-free Interstates. The New Jersey Turnpike is probably the best example.

[Rothman]

Vdeane, in a perfect world I might well agree with you (and the state of California). But in the real world of highways, you can't escape the fact that the toll turnpikes in the Northeast are generally better maintained and provide better services than the toll-free Interstates. The New Jersey Turnpike is probably the best example.

Pfft.  Yes, you can escape that fact.  I remember this argument being made ten years ago as the Thruway started taking about themselves as a "premium" service.  I don't see a different level of maintenance between the Thruway and say, I-81 or the Northway.  In fact, there are a whole host of bridges over the Thruway that have had signs of neglect.

Just VMT tax us and forget this ridiculous hodgepodge system of funding.  Besides the obstacle of implementing a VMT tax, the fact that we have these inscrutable public authorities that have become bureaucratic monsters in their own right is repugnant.

[PHLBOS]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

Are any of the other long distance toll roads as much of a ripoff as the PA Turnpike?

ixnay?

The PA Turnpike will roughly be about 18 cents per mile.

On a per mile basis, Delaware's I-95 is $4 for 11 miles, or 36.3 cents per mile.

I'd hardly call I-95 in DE a long-distance toll road.  It's more of a border toll.  It is a ripoff , though.

At least for the I-95 toll situation in DE, truckers do have a short & easy option to legally bypass that I-95 toll by using US 40 & MD 213 between DE 896 & MD 279.  Yes, such is a slower route than staying on I-95; but the savings in tolls may be justified.  Note: the northern DE 896 to DE/MD 279 bypass route has a through-truck prohibition imposed on it.

In contrast & depending on origin & destination; it's not always easy to fully-bypass the PA Turnpike  While there is I-80 to the north and I-68/70 to the south & west; such only are beneficial for long-distance through traffic.

But in the real world of highways, you can't escape the fact that the toll turnpikes in the Northeast are generally better maintained and provide better services than the toll-free Interstates. The New Jersey Turnpike is probably the best example.

It's also worth noting that prior to the 2007 collapse of I-35W in Minneapolis; most of the non-earthquake or non-weather-related highway collapses occurred on tolled facilities.  Two examples:

1.  The 1983 collapse of the Mianus River Bridge of the then-tolled CT Turnpike (I-95) due to a failure of two pin and hanger assemblies.  A condition to receive federal funding to replace the collapsed span was that the tolls for that road were to be removed within 2 years (such were).

2.  The 2006 tunnel ceiling collapse of one of the fairly new Big Dig ramp tunnels linking I-90 in Boston.  The I-90 portion, including the Ted Williams Tunnel is a tolled facility even though there was only one toll booth at the westbound tunnel entrance (pre-AET conversion).

Years prior to Act 44, the PA Turnpike has had a reputation for years if not decades of being one of the most expensive toll-road facilities in the nation but in being not in the best condition.

So tolled highways don't always mean better condition highways.

[jeffandnicole]

At least for the I-95 toll situation in DE, truckers do have a short & easy option to legally bypass that I-95 toll by using US 40 & MD 213 between DE 896 & MD 279.  Yes, such is a slower route than staying on I-95; but the savings in tolls may be justified.  Note: the northern DE 896 to DE/MD 279 bypass route has a through-truck prohibition imposed on it.

Considering the toll for regular 5 axle tractor trailers is $9, the hassle of bypassing it really isn't all that worthwhile.  At a loss of time and approximately another gallon of diesel being used, the net savings is maybe $6.  A few truckers make this detour, but by in large it's easier just to stay on the highway.

...So tolled highways don't always mean better condition highways.

I was on the NJ Turnpike Friday for the first time in a long time.  especially between Interchanges 4 and 6, I was horribly surprised at the condition of the pavement in that stretch.  It was very patched with pothole conditions on the skip lines within the asphalt joints, especially between the right and center lanes.  This would've never been heard of on the Turnpike 10 or 20 years ago.

[ixnay]

I agree with J&N that the Supreme Court may well decline to hear the case. It's not a matter of real national importance where a precedent or national standard needs to be established. It's a local issue at least local to the Northeast anyway.

Are any of the other long distance toll roads as much of a ripoff as the PA Turnpike?

ixnay?

The PA Turnpike will roughly be about 18 cents per mile.

On a per mile basis, Delaware's I-95 is $4 for 11 miles, or 36.3 cents per mile.

I'd hardly call I-95 in DE a long-distance toll road.  It's more of a border toll.  It is a ripoff , though.

At least for the I-95 toll situation in DE, truckers do have a short & easy option to legally bypass that I-95 toll by using US 40 & MD 213 between DE 896 & MD 279.  Yes, such is a slower route than staying on I-95; but the savings in tolls may be justified.  Note: the northern DE 896 to DE/MD 279 bypass route has a through-truck prohibition imposed on it.

In contrast & depending on origin & destination; it's not always easy to fully-bypass the PA Turnpike  While there is I-80 to the north and I-68/70 to the south & west; such only are beneficial for long-distance through traffic.

But in the real world of highways, you can't escape the fact that the toll turnpikes in the Northeast are generally better maintained and provide better services than the toll-free Interstates. The New Jersey Turnpike is probably the best example.

It's also worth noting that prior to the 2007 collapse of I-35W in Minneapolis; most of the non-earthquake or non-weather-related highway collapses occurred on tolled facilities.  Two examples:

1.  The 1983 collapse of the Mianus River Bridge of the then-tolled CT Turnpike (I-95) due to a failure of two pin and hanger assemblies.  A condition to receive federal funding to replace the collapsed span was that the tolls for that road were to be removed within 2 years (such were).

2.  The 2006 tunnel ceiling collapse of one of the fairly new Big Dig ramp tunnels linking I-90 in Boston.  The I-90 portion, including the Ted Williams Tunnel is a tolled facility even though there was only one toll booth at the westbound tunnel entrance (pre-AET conversion).

Years prior to Act 44, the PA Turnpike has had a reputation for years if not decades of being one of the most expensive toll-road facilities in the nation but in being not in the best condition.

So tolled highways don't always mean better condition highways.

And didn't the Schoharie Bridge on the Thruway collapse sometime in the late '80s?  (Looking at you, Rothman)

ixnay

[SignBridge]

J&N, I'm impressed by your observation that ten or twenty years ago the NJTA would not have allowed the pavement to deteriorate so badly on the Turnpike. What would you attribute this change to nowadays? Is the Turnpike Authority getting sloppy or just tighter with spending or both?

Ixnay, you are correct about the Schoharie Bridge disaster in 1987. And the other posters do make valid points about all of the infrastructure failures that happened on toll roads in the Northeast. All were under the control of toll authorities except possibly the Connecticut Tpk. I'm not sure what agency operated that road during the tolled era.

Despite those serious failures, the toll roads still have better motorist services than toll-free highways. That includes well equipped service areas you can access without leaving the highway and more resources to assist you with a car breakdown. NY Thruway Authority is particularly efficient in that regard. I imagine the NJTA is too. And Penn. Turnpike for years had emergency call boxes at frequent intervals. Don't know if they still do. So you see my point about the toll roads.

[vdeane]

Those service areas aren't because the roads are collecting tolls, though.  They're because they were grandfathered in when Congress banned service areas on the interstates.  CT still has them and hasn't collected tolls in decades.  Same for I-95/MA 128 and the service areas around NYC.  Canada, which doesn't have this prohibition, also has service areas on some free roads.  Finally, one of Cuomo's recent fights with FHWA was about what could be interpreted as the establishment of three new service areas on free interstates.