Washington

[jakeroot]

Speaking of ancient shields, does anyone know what happened to the old state-named I-5 shield that was along Cedardale Road in Mount Vernon? It appears to have been 1957-spec.

https://goo.gl/maps/dWdCrTDiEmNuN6iy7

As far as I know, it was the last-remaining cut-out state-named shield in the state, and possibly the oldest route shield posted anywhere in Washington. Seems to have been removed in 2021.

Bit curious if anyone actually grabbed a picture of it. I only went past it about a thousand times and never grabbed a picture .

When did they build the roundabout at Anderson Rd.?  Maybe they thought it would confuse people into turning left into the roundabout.

The roundabout opened in 2013. I don't know if the left arrow was confusing, and/or the reason for its removal, as most advanced signage for roundabouts use left/right/straight arrows (sometimes with "hook" arrows, sometimes not).

In fact, it seems the roundabout was modified to make it more permanent looking in late 2019/early 2020. New median, shoulder improvements. I think it was removed when that project occurred, as it was shown in street view prior to the reconstruction and was missing afterwards.

[jay8g]

From what I can tell from historic aerial photography, 51st has always ended where it does today, at S 160 St.

Particularly bizarre is the route that one would actually have to take to reach the 405: north on 51st Ave S, right on S 160 St, left on 53 Ave S, right on Klickitat Drive, left on Southcenter Parkway, and then all the way around the curve going east, past the 61 Ave S overpass, and then a left onto the 405. 518 is certainly much easier to reach....but then there is no sign for that, that I knew/know of.

The truck route sign makes me suspect it's less about encouraging people to use 51st and more about discouraging them from continuing straight and using 53rd, perhaps because of this section. That could explain why there aren't any further signs down the line (that's the only decision point they cared about). It's also close to the Tukwila-Seatac (which would have been unincorporated King County when the sign was installed) city limits, so perhaps Tukwila put up a fuss and got King County to direct people to stay on their side of the line.

Of course, I still have no idea why people (and especially trucks) would be on 170th looking for 405 in the first place...

[Bruce]

The transportation package (Move Ahead WA) has been passed by the legislature, albeit with different funding methods due to opposition from Oregon and Idaho. No gas tax increase, just an increase in car tab and license fees.

https://www.knkx.org/2022-03-10/new-bridges-and-ferries-wider-highways-and-free-fares-in-freshly-passed-wa-transportation-package

[jakeroot]

I wonder if the next transport package will fund HOV direct access ramps at the 90/405, as shown in this render (circa 2008):


I-405/I-90 Master Plan, Circa 2008 by Jacob Root, on Flickr
Original image source: https://web.archive.org/web/20080822064052/http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/i405/112thAvetoSE8th/Default.htm

Jokes aside, the master plan for 405 has really changed a lot in the last 15 years.

Then: HOV direct access ramps + 1 HOV + 4 GP lanes + C/D roadways
Now: two express toll lanes + two GP lanes + maybe C/D roadway for Coal Creek Parkway.

Based on this render, I do find it interesting that WSDOT built what they did in this area in the late 2000s (northbound HOV on old southbound lanes, new southbound carriageway), as it doesn't align at all with this master plan.

[Plutonic Panda]

Beautiful interchange. I hope it gets built!

[Bruce]

Do we even need direct HOV/HOT connections at Factoria? Probably not.

I'd rather see that money spent on fixing the mess at Coal Creek Parkway (not sure if this is being addressed with the current HOT/widening project) or rebuilding the weaves in Downtown Bellevue.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yes in order to get this interchange built it needs the direct connectors.

[jakeroot]

Do we even need direct HOV/HOT connections at Factoria? Probably not.

I'd rather see that money spent on fixing the mess at Coal Creek Parkway (not sure if this is being addressed with the current HOT/widening project) or rebuilding the weaves in Downtown Bellevue.

I don't truly think there is any "need" but I appreciate WSDOT's focus on improving capacity for carpools and transit. As evidenced by this being Washington's only stack interchange, most maneuvers in this interchange are relatively equal. The worst approaches seem to be from I-90 to I-405; the opposite is not as busy from what I've seen. So if direct access ramps were ever built, perhaps focus on getting HOV ramps from I-90 to I-405 (not the other way around) first before the whole system is built, as it may help relieve that afternoon and morning rush.

Given that the 405/167 corridor will ultimately become a very high capacity express lane corridor, I think some direct access ramps at both I-90 and I-5 in Lynnwood should be considered.

What weaving are you speaking of? I've always thought the loop from 520 to southbound 405 was pretty awful, I would love to see that fixed. Otherwise, downtown Bellevue is much better after all of the improvements in the early and late 2000s (collector roads, new HOV-only ramps, direct access ramp to 116th Ave SE, etc).

[jakeroot]

Not sure how long ago this was published. WSDOT has made public their plans for 18 between Issaquah-Hobart (I-H) Road and Deep Creek known as part of its inclusion in the Move Ahead WA transport package. It's effectively the plan we all know from many variations past, but a couple of changes:

https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/search-projects/sr-18-issaquah-hobart-rd-deep-creek-widening

Big thing seems to be the elimination of any interchange at Tiger Mountain, opting instead for RIROs. The webpage literally states that it expects drivers to turn around either at I-H Road or I-90, with the DDI at I-90 and new roundabouts at I-H Road being intentional in order to fulfill this need.

Couple other changes include the elimination of truck climbing lanes, and slightly less stringent design standards. The road is likely to have a 50 mph limit. That's definitely a shame, as the SR-18 corridor from Auburn to I-H Road could be posted at 70, given its largely rural route and high design standards. Without the same level of design standards for the stretch over Tiger Mountain, I doubt they will ever bother to increase SR-18 any higher than 60 for the foreseeable future. At least until the stretch over Tiger Mountain is improved with a grade-separated interchange and truck climbing lanes.

[jay8g]

I get why they're doing that -- a full interchange at Tiger Mountain seems like serious overkill -- but yikes, that's quite a long detour to make a U-turn, especially on the I-90 end.

For the speed limit, I doubt WSDOT will want to increase it unless a direct freeway connection is built at the east end, and it seems like they've given up on that for now with the planned DDI.

[Algorithm]

If a full-size interchange is overkill for Tiger, then don't do a full-size interchange.  There's no freight or double-decker buses going there.  A simple culvert-style underpass with 10-12 feet of clearance is all that's needed.  If WSDOT cares about carbon expenditure at all, they shouldn't force nature lovers to waste gasoline by going 3+ miles out of their way and climbing the mountain twice.

[Bruce]

What weaving are you speaking of? I've always thought the loop from 520 to southbound 405 was pretty awful, I would love to see that fixed. Otherwise, downtown Bellevue is much better after all of the improvements in the early and late 2000s (collector roads, new HOV-only ramps, direct access ramp to 116th Ave SE, etc).

Southbound I-405 has a fair bit between the onramps for NE 4th/8th and the offramp to SE 8th. It definitely contributes to some of the issues approaching I-90 (along with the backups stemming from the SB I-405 offramp to Coal Creek Parkway).

[jakeroot]

What weaving are you speaking of? I've always thought the loop from 520 to southbound 405 was pretty awful, I would love to see that fixed. Otherwise, downtown Bellevue is much better after all of the improvements in the early and late 2000s (collector roads, new HOV-only ramps, direct access ramp to 116th Ave SE, etc).

Southbound I-405 has a fair bit between the onramps for NE 4th/8th and the offramp to SE 8th. It definitely contributes to some of the issues approaching I-90 (along with the backups stemming from the SB I-405 offramp to Coal Creek Parkway).

The 405/Coal Creek Parkway weave may well be my most hated in the state, I swear it contributes to virtually all of the pain experienced in South Bellevue.

I suppose you could reconfigure the ramps so that traffic for SE 8th could exit at the NE 8th exit, stay straight through the cloverleaf, and then construct some kind of barrier to prevent weaving after the onramp from NE 4th. Problem, of course, is the NE 8th ramp meters. Well, and the total lack of any available ROW.

[stevashe]

I'd rather see that money spent on fixing the mess at Coal Creek Parkway (not sure if this is being addressed with the current HOT/widening project)

The current project will add an auxiliary lane on southbound I-405 from I-90 to 112th (matching the current northbound configuration), which should help at least a little with the Coal Creek weave since it will no longer be 2 lanes entering the immediately exiting, instead one of those lanes will continue.

Jokes aside, the master plan for 405 has really changed a lot in the last 15 years.

Then: HOV direct access ramps + 1 HOV + 4 GP lanes + C/D roadways
Now: two express toll lanes + two GP lanes + maybe C/D roadway for Coal Creek Parkway.

This isn't entirely true, the master plan is still for 5 lanes total (two express + three GP, like the current setup from NE 6th St to SR 522), that just won't be happening with the current round of projects or anytime soon.

[jakeroot]

Jokes aside, the master plan for 405 has really changed a lot in the last 15 years.

Then: HOV direct access ramps + 1 HOV + 4 GP lanes + C/D roadways
Now: two express toll lanes + two GP lanes + maybe C/D roadway for Coal Creek Parkway.

This isn't entirely true, the master plan is still for 5 lanes total (two express + three GP, like the current setup from NE 6th St to SR 522), that just won't be happening with the current round of projects or anytime soon.

Still no plans for any HOV connections, and that is a shame for a express toll system that really should do everything in its power to both (a) attract people into those lanes, and then (b) keep them in those lanes, especially for safety's sake.

I do recall hearing about the possibility of C/D roadways near the Coal Creek Pkwy interchange but don't know how firm those plans are.

I'd rather see that money spent on fixing the mess at Coal Creek Parkway (not sure if this is being addressed with the current HOT/widening project)

The current project will add an auxiliary lane on southbound I-405 from I-90 to 112th (matching the current northbound configuration), which should help at least a little with the Coal Creek weave since it will no longer be 2 lanes entering the immediately exiting, instead one of those lanes will continue.

Sounds like it could make exiting onto Coal Creek Parkway from southbound 405 a bit hairier. If it will eventually require two lane changes...yikes.

[stevashe]

I'd rather see that money spent on fixing the mess at Coal Creek Parkway (not sure if this is being addressed with the current HOT/widening project)

The current project will add an auxiliary lane on southbound I-405 from I-90 to 112th (matching the current northbound configuration), which should help at least a little with the Coal Creek weave since it will no longer be 2 lanes entering the immediately exiting, instead one of those lanes will continue.

Sounds like it could make exiting onto Coal Creek Parkway from southbound 405 a bit hairier. If it will eventually require two lane changes...yikes.

I believe it will be an option lane, so only one lane change, they're not that crazy!

[jakeroot]

I'd rather see that money spent on fixing the mess at Coal Creek Parkway (not sure if this is being addressed with the current HOT/widening project)

The current project will add an auxiliary lane on southbound I-405 from I-90 to 112th (matching the current northbound configuration), which should help at least a little with the Coal Creek weave since it will no longer be 2 lanes entering the immediately exiting, instead one of those lanes will continue.

Sounds like it could make exiting onto Coal Creek Parkway from southbound 405 a bit hairier. If it will eventually require two lane changes...yikes.

I believe it will be an option lane, so only one lane change, they're not that crazy!

Haha, of course! :facepalm: -- I don't know why I would have thought that they would make it a single exit-only lane.

[ErmineNotyours]

If a full-size interchange is overkill for Tiger, then don't do a full-size interchange.  There's no freight or double-decker buses going there.  A simple culvert-style underpass with 10-12 feet of clearance is all that's needed.  If WSDOT cares about carbon expenditure at all, they shouldn't force nature lovers to waste gasoline by going 3+ miles out of their way and climbing the mountain twice.

There might still be logging access required for that exit, but the logging trucks can use the U-turn route.

[Bruce]

In not-April Fools news: the southbound I-5 bridge over the Puyallup River is now carrying all traffic. No HOV lane yet, but the slithering work zone is being removed.

https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article260014465.html

[Bruce]

Another (mostly) complete research project: State Route 512.

The last detail I'm missing is when the cloverleaf interchange at I-5 in Lakewood was reduced to a parclo with a traffic signal. Some sources suggest it was in 2002, but they were not firm enough to cite.

[stevashe]

In not-April Fools news: the southbound I-5 bridge over the Puyallup River is now carrying all traffic. No HOV lane yet, but the slithering work zone is being removed.

https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article260014465.html

Got some photos of the new southbound configuration and signs yesterday:

Link to album

[jakeroot]

Looks great! Here's hoping we can get those HOV lanes open soon in the next few months.

I'm especially looking forward to a complete auxiliary lane system between the 705 and Portland Ave / River Road exits. There is currently one, but I think the final plan is for two (one to Portland Ave, another to River Road/167).

[thefraze_1020]

Always nice seeing WSDOT installing new signs that are properly formatted and not bizarre. These SR-167 signs look very good.

[jakeroot]

I had always thought Seattle's old-style flashing yellow left turn signal was relegated to Seattle only. Apparently not. Here is a video showing the 518 back and forth to-from Burien. At the very end of the video (literally last 20 seconds of footage from about 9:25 onwards) you can actually see a Seattle-style flashing yellow arrow left turn signal at the point where westbound 518 turns left onto the southbound 509 on-ramp (Google Maps link). This operated permissively until 2008, when it was turned into a double left turn. At some point, probably during the 1990s, the approach was modified so that the left turn used a 5-section doghouse, as was most common by that point.

https://youtu.be/H4zHsApLJ4A?t=565

[Bruce]

WSDOT has awarded a $123 million contract for the I-5 HOV extension to Marysville and new ramps at SR 529. Set to begin construction this year and be complete by 2025.

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/i-5-hov-lane-highway-529-interchange-work-to-start-this-year/