I've been browsing GSV for I-95 and it seems that Maine has a disproportionate number of control cities on it within the state. Sure, it's a big state, but there are few major populated centers. Yet, the following control cities appear on entrances to I-95 in Maine: Portland, Augusta, Kittery (Southbound only), Saco (Northbound only), Biddeford (Northbound only), Wells (Southbound only), Auburn, Lewiston, Old Orchard Beach (Southbound only), Waterville, Bangor, Newport, Pittsfield (Southbound only), Orono (Northbound only), Houlton (Northbound only), Howland (Northbound only), Medway, Island Falls (Northbound only). That's 18 total, 14 Northbound, and 12 Southbound.
Compare with Florida, with bigger highway length and much bigger population where the following control cities appear on entrances to I-95: Miami (and parts thereof), Ft. Lauderdale (Northbound only), W Palm Beach (Northbound only), Daytona Beach, Titusville (Northbound only), Cocoa (Southbound only), Jacksonville (and parts thereof), St Augustine (Southbound only). That's only 8 total, 6 Northbound and 5 Southbound.
And then there is New Jersey, where I-95 Northbound does not get a single in-state destination, having New York and/or George Washington Bridge as the only controls through the state (the one possible exception is the Newark Airport exit signage where I-95 is signed as "New York, Newark, Elizabeth" if Newark is meant to be Northbound). Southbound you do get a bit more, Fort Lee, Paterson, Newark, The Ridgefields, Trenton, (maybe Elizabeth, see above), Camden. If you were to sign population centers of the size Maine signs, you'd have at least Burlington, New Brunswick, Woodbridge, Edison, and Elizabeth serving as control cities, and probably just about anywhere there is an exit.
So is there a reason for this or is it just that different states differ with things like this?
CT is pretty simplified, with the exception of I-395, which has New Haven, Norwich, Plainfield, Danielson, and Putnam (should just be Norwich and New Haven, with Worcester) I-84 has Danbury, Waterbury, and Hartford. I-91 and CT 15 have New Haven and Hartford. I-95 has Bridgeport (in a few places such as on SR 796), New Haven, and New London. CT 8 has Bridgeport, Waterbury, Torrington, and Winsted. CT 9 has Old Saybrook, Middletown, New Britain, and Newington/West Hartford. The rest (I-291, I-691, CT 2, CT 25, CT 40, CT 72) have either the two endpoints or a destination city it heads toward, with the exception of I-384, which only has Hartford WB and the out of state Providence EB.
RI is even more simplified. I-95 and I-195 have Providence, I-295 has Warwick and Woonsocket (but Johnston is used on RI 37 signage). State routes usually have the endpoint or a destination town (ie Newport on RI 24).
West Virginia uses smaller in-state cities on every just about every interstate.
Quote from: bzakharin on October 14, 2018, 05:13:21 PM
I've been browsing GSV for I-95 and it seems that Maine has a disproportionate number of control cities on it within the state. Sure, it's a big state, but there are few major populated centers. Yet, the following control cities appear on entrances to I-95 in Maine: Portland, Augusta, Kittery (Southbound only), Saco (Northbound only), Biddeford (Northbound only), Wells (Southbound only), Auburn, Lewiston, Old Orchard Beach (Southbound only), Waterville, Bangor, Newport, Pittsfield (Southbound only), Orono (Northbound only), Houlton (Northbound only), Howland (Northbound only), Medway, Island Falls (Northbound only). That's 18 total, 14 Northbound, and 12 Southbound.
Compare with Florida, with bigger highway length and much bigger population where the following control cities appear on entrances to I-95: Miami (and parts thereof), Ft. Lauderdale (Northbound only), W Palm Beach (Northbound only), Daytona Beach, Titusville (Northbound only), Cocoa (Southbound only), Jacksonville (and parts thereof), St Augustine (Southbound only). That's only 8 total, 6 Northbound and 5 Southbound.
And then there is New Jersey, where I-95 Northbound does not get a single in-state destination, having New York and/or George Washington Bridge as the only controls through the state (the one possible exception is the Newark Airport exit signage where I-95 is signed as "New York, Newark, Elizabeth" if Newark is meant to be Northbound). Southbound you do get a bit more, Fort Lee, Paterson, Newark, The Ridgefields, Trenton, (maybe Elizabeth, see above), Camden. If you were to sign population centers of the size Maine signs, you'd have at least Burlington, New Brunswick, Woodbridge, Edison, and Elizabeth serving as control cities, and probably just about anywhere there is an exit.
So is there a reason for this or is it just that different states differ with things like this?
California has over 100 cities with over 50K population. Almost all of them are on a road. I am pretty sure that each of them is used as a control point somewhere. In fact, it would be surprising, and worthy of another thread if they are not.
Quote from: michravera on October 15, 2018, 02:15:07 PM
California has over 100 cities with over 50K population. Almost all of them are on a road.
[citation needed]
:bigass:
MN is weird in places, especially along I-90 west of Albert Lea. While the bottom line is always Sioux Falls or Albert Lea, interchange signage will use Worthington, Jackson, and Luverne.
I-94 will use Alexandria and Fergus Falls at interchanges west of St. Cloud, though again Fargo/Moorhead alternates on the bottom line on the freeway.
There's also Forest Lake used on interchange signs at I-35E between I-694 and I-35W.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 15, 2018, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: michravera on October 15, 2018, 02:15:07 PM
California has over 100 cities with over 50K population. Almost all of them are on a road.
[citation needed]
:bigass:
Question: does "on a road" entail just pull-through or freeway-to-freeway exit references, or cities cited on off-ramps to surface streets as well? If the latter, most CA towns of any appreciable size close to a freeway would find their way to BGS's! However, there are a number of CA cities exceeding 100K population that aren't actual freeway control cities; I can think of a few offhand: Santa Clara, Fontana, and Huntington Beach are examples. All
do show up on BGS exit signs, however.
Quote from: sparker on October 15, 2018, 02:36:55 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 15, 2018, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: michravera on October 15, 2018, 02:15:07 PM
California has over 100 cities with over 50K population. Almost all of them are on a road.
[citation needed]
:bigass:
Question: does "on a road" entail just pull-through or freeway-to-freeway exit references, or cities cited on off-ramps to surface streets as well? If the latter, most CA towns of any appreciable size close to a freeway would find their way to BGS's! However, there are a number of CA cities exceeding 100K population that aren't actual freeway control cities; I can think of a few offhand: Santa Clara, Fontana, and Huntington Beach are examples. All do show up on BGS exit signs, however.
Well, sure, any city hosting a freeway exit should probably appear on a BGS, except maybe a freeway-to-freeway interchange in the middle of nowhere.
Illinois tends to use secondary control cities that are in state rather than out of state. Examples:
I-80 WB
Primary control: Des Moines
Secondary control: Moline-Rock Island
I-55 SB
Primary control: St. Louis
Secondary control: East St. Louis
I-57 SB
Primary control: Memphis
Secondary control: Cairo
I-74 WB
Primary & Secondary controls: Moline-Rock Island
I-74 EB
Primary control: Indianapolis
Secondary control: Danville
I-70 WB
Primary control: St. Louis
Secondary control: East St. Louis
I-64 WB
Primary control: St. Louis
Secondary control: East St. Louis
I-72 WB
Primary & secondary controls: Quincy, sometimes Hannibal (MO)
Quote from: bzakharin on October 15, 2018, 02:45:57 PM
Quote from: sparker on October 15, 2018, 02:36:55 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 15, 2018, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: michravera on October 15, 2018, 02:15:07 PM
California has over 100 cities with over 50K population. Almost all of them are on a road.
[citation needed]
:bigass:
Question: does "on a road" entail just pull-through or freeway-to-freeway exit references, or cities cited on off-ramps to surface streets as well? If the latter, most CA towns of any appreciable size close to a freeway would find their way to BGS's! However, there are a number of CA cities exceeding 100K population that aren't actual freeway control cities; I can think of a few offhand: Santa Clara, Fontana, and Huntington Beach are examples. All do show up on BGS exit signs, however.
Well, sure, any city hosting a freeway exit should probably appear on a BGS, except maybe a freeway-to-freeway interchange in the middle of nowhere.
I'm creating a thread titled "Medium sized cities not on any freeway BGSes" (since there are no large ones). First, I have to figure out what some possible contenders are, though, so it hasn't been posted yet.
Quote from: Brandon on October 15, 2018, 03:00:08 PM
Illinois tends to use secondary control cities that are in state rather than out of state. Examples:
This approach makes sense to me, although I do find East Saint Louis a little silly.
Quote from: kphoger on October 15, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 15, 2018, 03:00:08 PM
Illinois tends to use secondary control cities that are in state rather than out of state. Examples:
This approach makes sense to me, although I do find East Saint Louis a little silly.
The Distance to Control Signs are even sillier, with East STL always 1-3 miles less than STL. No need to have both on the Distance signs, but the IL/IDOT standard is typically:
1) Next Interchange (mileage)
2) Secondary Control (mileage)
3) Primary Control (mileage)
So I-55 S, I-64 W and I-70 W have East St Louis and St Louis as the mileage points, on the same signs, across Southern and Central IL
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 15, 2018, 02:26:15 PM
Fargo/Moorhead alternates on the bottom line on the freeway.
Yeah, what you said:
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 15, 2018, 02:26:15 PM
MN is weird in places
I have never been able to figure out why on earth they alternate Fargo and Moorhead on distance signs for hundreds of miles. For crying out loud, just pick one, preferably Fargo, and stick with it the whole way! Alternating them does nothing but generate confusion, IMO; it's almost like they couldn't decide between the in-state destination and the larger city and ended up compromising clarity through indecision.
Quote from: bzakharin on October 14, 2018, 05:13:21 PM
I've been browsing GSV for I-95 and it seems that Maine has a disproportionate number of control cities on it within the state. Sure, it's a big state, but there are few major populated centers. Yet, the following control cities appear on entrances to I-95 in Maine: Portland, Augusta, Kittery (Southbound only), Saco (Northbound only), Biddeford (Northbound only), Wells (Southbound only), Auburn, Lewiston, Old Orchard Beach (Southbound only), Waterville, Bangor, Newport, Pittsfield (Southbound only), Orono (Northbound only), Houlton (Northbound only), Howland (Northbound only), Medway, Island Falls (Northbound only). That's 18 total, 14 Northbound, and 12 Southbound.
Compare with Florida, with bigger highway length and much bigger population where the following control cities appear on entrances to I-95: Miami (and parts thereof), Ft. Lauderdale (Northbound only), W Palm Beach (Northbound only), Daytona Beach, Titusville (Northbound only), Cocoa (Southbound only), Jacksonville (and parts thereof), St Augustine (Southbound only). That's only 8 total, 6 Northbound and 5 Southbound.
And then there is New Jersey, where I-95 Northbound does not get a single in-state destination, having New York and/or George Washington Bridge as the only controls through the state (the one possible exception is the Newark Airport exit signage where I-95 is signed as "New York, Newark, Elizabeth" if Newark is meant to be Northbound). Southbound you do get a bit more, Fort Lee, Paterson, Newark, The Ridgefields, Trenton, (maybe Elizabeth, see above), Camden. If you were to sign population centers of the size Maine signs, you'd have at least Burlington, New Brunswick, Woodbridge, Edison, and Elizabeth serving as control cities, and probably just about anywhere there is an exit.
So is there a reason for this or is it just that different states differ with things like this?
Every state does its own thing. Some states would rather sign cities within their own state than out-of-state cities.
BTW there is at least ONE mention of Fort Lee on NB I-95:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8312676,-74.0227595,3a,75y,33.85h,94.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYCWaVqIP1fMsn7Ibg-eWAw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: webny99I have never been able to figure out why on earth they alternate Fargo and Moorhead on distance signs for hundreds of miles. For crying out loud, just pick one, preferably Fargo, and stick with it the whole way! Alternating them does nothing but generate confusion, IMO; it's almost like they couldn't decide between the in-state destination and the larger city and ended up compromising clarity through indecision.
Perhaps because they are effectively sister-cities that just happen to be on opposite sides of a river and state border. Both cities are in the MPO name. Fundamentally, it's not much different than alternating between Minneapolis and St. Paul on distance signage (which happens on I-35 and IIRC I-94 as well).
DFW's got a habit of carrying nearby sattelite cities instead of the next major (Denton, McKinney, Waco, etc)
WI has it's next big site approach when signing I-90 and I-94 with Milwaukee, Madison, Wis Dells, Eau Claire and finally St. Paul (no Minneapolis, you get no respect) for I-94 and Janesville (SB Secondary), Madison, Wis Dells, La Crosse for I-90 (No Minnesota, no city gets respect here) SB out of state? Chicago (obviously) for both.
43? Green Bay, Milwaukee and Beloit.
41? Fond Du Lac, Green Bay
39? Wausau, [see 90/94]
Quote from: froggie on October 15, 2018, 06:05:53 PM
Fundamentally, it's not much different than alternating between Minneapolis and St. Paul on distance signage (which happens on I-35 and IIRC I-94 as well).
In Minnesota anyway. Strangely, for I-35 in Iowa north of Des Moines, the control city is Minneapolis but most if not all the distance signs use St. Paul.
I-5 SB in Oregon uses many small cities starting south from Portland is Salem ok that makes sense it's the capitol the next is Eugene also makes sense still major but the next is Roseburg and Grants Pass come on who as ever heard of those? Next up is Medford I get that one should be used right after Eugene but even after that they still won't use a California city they have to go with Ashland. It isn't until after that we get a California city but it isn't Sacramento or even Redding as you would expect is Yreka who has ever heard of that? While in California they use Portland for NB starting just after Redding while Oregon uses all these little places for the SB direction.
Sort of related....
I never did get an answer to this question I posited 2½ years ago:
Quote from: kphoger on June 24, 2016, 07:11:50 PM
Quote from: Chris on June 24, 2016, 01:24:59 PM
Poland signs the remote focal point on its highways. In case of highways reaching a border, they sign the border town along the entire length of a route. So that means Jędrzychowice, a village with a population of 670, is signed across the country from hundreds of miles away...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6vSYvwB.jpg&hash=b822a81a479a3d3a4f1d4c2bcd321afd3dc7977e)
Yes, but mileage signs are a different beast from control cities. Is Jędrzychowice used on any guide signs at junctions any farther east than Gliwice? I can't find any on GSV. That is to say, it isn't used as a control city until less than 200 miles from the border, at which point it's reasonable to think more motorists would want guidance to the German border (although I still probably wouldn't use it until west of Wrocław).
Maryland has:
I-68: Cumberland and maybe Hancock
I-70: Hancock, Hagerstown, Frederick and Baltimore
I-81: Hagerstown, if any at all
I-83: Baltimore, and I think Timonium at the I-695 interchanges
I-95: Baltimore
I-97: Baltimore and Annapolis.
Quote from: epzik8 on October 16, 2018, 01:14:40 AM
Maryland has:
I-68: Cumberland and maybe Hancock
Yes to Hancock. Signage on US 220 South just north of the I-68/US 220 concurrency displays "I-68 EAST/MD 144 Hancock". Also can add Frostburg. Pull-thru signage on I-68 West at Exit 39 reads "I-68/US 40 WEST Frostburg"
Oklahoma barely participates in the control city game; on I-35 and I-40, the only control city is Oklahoma City. On I-44 you also get Tulsa and Lawton.
Quote from: Brandon on October 15, 2018, 03:00:08 PM
Illinois tends to use secondary control cities that are in state rather than out of state. Examples:
I-80 WB
Primary control: Des Moines
Secondary control: Moline-Rock Island
I thought the primary control city on I-80 WB in IL was "Iowa" :bigass:.
I-95 in NH: Portsmouth, Seabrook and Hampton (at least it did years ago)
I-95 in MA: Boston, Salisbury, Peabody, Burlington (on two or three older signs), Waltham, Dedham, Canton, Foxboro (on one or two interchange signs) & Attleboro
I-95 in PA: Philadelphia & Chester
I-95 in DE: Wilmington & Newark
I-93 in MA: Boston, Dedham, Canton, Braintree, Quincy & Lawrence.
Note: Cape Cod is listed invariably on signage between Exit 27 (US 1 North) and Exit 7 (MA 3 South) but such is not an actual city.
I-90 in MA: Springfield, Worcester, Framingham (on some ramps signs) & Boston
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 15, 2018, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: michravera on October 15, 2018, 02:15:07 PM
California has over 100 cities with over 50K population. Almost all of them are on a road.
[citation needed]
:bigass:
The first list of California cities by population gave me the top 100 and #100 was around 77000, so it might be closer to 200 (and remember that these are cities' official populations inside the city limits). On the list that I saw, it was somewhere in the high 60s before the population fell below 100000. We're not China, but we probably have a dozen cities over 200000 of which people east of the Rockies have never heard (except maybe in songs).
Quote from: michravera on October 16, 2018, 10:25:11 AM
The first list of California cities by population gave me the top 100 and #100 was around 77000, so it might be closer to 200 (and remember that these are cities' official populations inside the city limits).
The vast majority being bedroom communities in 3 large metro areas.
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on October 15, 2018, 04:31:06 PM
BTW there is at least ONE mention of Fort Lee on NB I-95:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8312676,-74.0227595,3a,75y,33.85h,94.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYCWaVqIP1fMsn7Ibg-eWAw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I missed that because I was looking at entrances rather than pull-through signage. I find that pull-thrus are a lot harder to find because they don't appear at every exit, and on the NJ Turnpike's northern part often still say "Thru Traffic"
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 16, 2018, 10:00:10 AM
I-95 in NH: Portsmouth, Seabrook and Hampton (at least it did years ago)
See the list in my original post. Those are at entrances again
Quote from: bzakharin on October 16, 2018, 10:52:10 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 16, 2018, 10:00:10 AM
I-95 in NH: Portsmouth, Seabrook and Hampton (at least it did years ago)
See the list in my original post. Those are at entrances again
Wrong, I re-checked your original post; it only covered Maine, New Jersey & Florida. It did not cover New Hampshire.
Regarding the listings in Maine; such may be due to a sizable chunk of I-95 being the Maine Turnpike. Those secondary control cities on the entrance ramp signs are the names of interchanges listed on the toll tickets.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 16, 2018, 10:58:38 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on October 16, 2018, 10:52:10 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 16, 2018, 10:00:10 AM
I-95 in NH: Portsmouth, Seabrook and Hampton (at least it did years ago)
See the list in my original post. Those are at entrances again
Wrong, I re-checked your original post; it only covered Maine, New Jersey & Florida. It did not cover New Hampshire.
Oh, sorry, got confused.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 16, 2018, 06:37:06 AM
Oklahoma barely participates in the control city game; on I-35 and I-40, the only >in-state< control city is Oklahoma City. On I-44 you also get Tulsa and Lawton.
Ummm... FTFY.
I-35 north out of OKC is control-signed for Wichita. I-35 south out of OKC is control-signed for Dallas. I-40 west out of OKC is control-signed for Amarillo. I-40 east out of OKC is control-signed for Fort Smith. I-44 southwest out of Lawton is control-signed for Wichita Falls.
If in-state control cities were used instead, then it would be something like.....
I-35 Guthrie
I-35 Pauls Valley or Ardmore
I-40 Elk City
I-40 Shawnee or Henryetta
I-44 ..... shoot, I don't know, Walters?
Kentucky uses the logical ones of Lexington, Louisville and Paducah where appropriate. Ashland for I-64 is arguable. I don't get Fulton for I-69, though.
Arizona only uses four in-state control cities on its interstates: Phoenix, Tucson, Flagstaff, and Nogales.
Quote from: dvferyance on October 15, 2018, 07:51:33 PM
I-5 SB in Oregon uses many small cities starting south from Portland is Salem ok that makes sense it's the capitol the next is Eugene also makes sense still major but the next is Roseburg and Grants Pass come on who as ever heard of those? Next up is Medford I get that one should be used right after Eugene but even after that they still won't use a California city they have to go with Ashland. It isn't until after that we get a California city but it isn't Sacramento or even Redding as you would expect is Yreka who has ever heard of that? While in California they use Portland for NB starting just after Redding while Oregon uses all these little places for the SB direction.
Oregon has what I think of as a "Topeka problem" (since I'm from Kansas) when it comes to control cities. In both Kansas and Oregon, the dominant metro in the state is right at the state line (KC and Portland) and the capital is a short distance away. As the capitals in both states are mid-sized cities and capitals, it makes sense to sign them as a primary control. However, in both cases, there's a string of cities of decreasing size and fame in-state, and no particularly large cities in the next state for quite a ways. This is also the case with 80 in Nebraska and 80 in Wyoming.
Quote from: jaehak on October 19, 2018, 12:33:47 AM
Oregon has what I think of as a "Topeka problem" (since I'm from Kansas) when it comes to control cities. In both Kansas and Oregon, the dominant metro in the state is right at the state line (KC and Portland) and the capital is a short distance away. As the capitals in both states are mid-sized cities and capitals, it makes sense to sign them as a primary control. However, in both cases, there's a string of cities of decreasing size and fame in-state, and no particularly large cities in the next state for quite a ways. This is also the case with 80 in Nebraska and 80 in Wyoming.
Topeka makes sense, since it's a major route junction (Kansas Turnpike/I-335), although most traffic from KC to Wichita is going to use free I-35 instead of paying a toll to go through Lawrence and Topeka.
Going west on I-70, Topeka and then Denver is logical. There's nothing in Kansas, really, that warrants an in-state control city designation, although Salina would probably work for a supplemental (Next Town/Salina/Denver on mileage signs.)
Coming back east, what does Colorado use? Limon (in-state), Salina, Topeka, or KC?
Quote from: hbelkins on October 19, 2018, 10:00:11 AM
most traffic from KC to Wichita is going to use free I-35 instead of paying a toll to go through Lawrence and Topeka.
That depends greatly on what part of KC they're coming from. If coming from KCI, the Speedway, or Bonner Springs, a driver is pretty likely to use KTA the whole way.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 19, 2018, 10:00:11 AM
Coming back east, what does Colorado use? Limon (in-state), Salina, Topeka, or KC?
Limon and then...well, nothing, really.
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2018, 10:50:25 AM
Quote from: michravera on October 16, 2018, 10:25:11 AM
The first list of California cities by population gave me the top 100 and #100 was around 77000, so it might be closer to 200 (and remember that these are cities' official populations inside the city limits).
The vast majority being bedroom communities in 3 large metro areas.
Chico, Marysviille, Yuba City, Red Bluff, Merced, Madera, and Redding are a bedroom communities for which city now? LA, San Diego, or San Jose?
Tulare and Visalia are bedroom communities for which of those?
We can argue about Santa Clarita, Salinas, Santa Rosa, Palmdale, Lancaster, Escondido, and even Yucca Valley and Stockton, but CASR-99 has a *LOT* of cities that have nothing to do with The Bay Area, LA, or San Diego. And quite a few that have nothing to do with Fresno, Bakersfield, or Sacramento either. They are just there with their own importance. Not terribly important to everyone, but pretty important to the 100000 or so people who live there!
I remember navigating for my father back in 1968 along CASR-99. There was a decent sized town every couple of minutes and what seemed like big ones every 15 or 20.
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on October 16, 2018, 08:20:23 PM
Arizona only uses four in-state control cities on its interstates: Phoenix, Tucson, Flagstaff, and Nogales.
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on October 16, 2018, 08:20:23 PM
Arizona only uses four in-state control cities on its interstates: Phoenix, Tucson, Flagstaff, and Nogales.
forgot one Yuma
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2018, 10:50:25 AM
Quote from: michravera on October 16, 2018, 10:25:11 AM
The first list of California cities by population gave me the top 100 and #100 was around 77000, so it might be closer to 200 (and remember that these are cities' official populations inside the city limits).
The vast majority being bedroom communities in 3 large metro areas.
Well if you live in Solano County, CA you just happen to be counted as a commuter county of both Sacramento and San Francisco and I-80 in Solano County getting both cities though. Also I remember that cities like Temecula gets mentioned as both the commuter city for San Diego and Los Angeles though with I-15. But for the rest of California I would not be so quick to say that though.
I-84 eastbound in Oregon has lots of small control cities with The Dalles, Hermiston, Pendleton, Baker City, La Grande and Ontario, but they should be secondary control cities and the obvious Boise being given primary status. Though Idaho uses Ontario instead of Portland and Mountain Home instead of Twin Falls (or Salt Lake) so who knows.
Des Moines is the most frequently-used control city on I-35 and I-80 in Iowa, given that the two highways meet there.
West of Des Moines, Council Bluffs is the main control city over Omaha, likely because that's where I-80 intersects with I-29. East of there, Iowa City and Davenport show up on distance signs along I-80, with Davenport being the main control city. Chicago, despite the occasional mention in West Des Moines and the Iowa City area, doesn't become the main control city until you enter Davenport.
I-35 north of Des Moines uses Minneapolis as the main control city, but Ames and Mason City occasionally show up on distance signs.
Louisiana has quite a few in-state control cities for its size and population.
Shreveport
Monroe
Alexandria
Opelousas
Lafayette
Lake Charles
Baton Rouge
New Orleans
Hammond
Slidell
If Future I-49 South uses existing ones from US 90, Morgan City would be another one. I've never understood why New Iberia is not used instead.
iPhone
I-80 in Pennsylvania. <mic drop>
(https://pics.me.me/lipstickmystic-stop-romanticizing-mic-dropping-damage-to-sound-equipment-is-1967645.png)
Quote from: hbelkins on October 19, 2018, 10:00:11 AM
Quote from: jaehak on October 19, 2018, 12:33:47 AM
Oregon has what I think of as a "Topeka problem" (since I'm from Kansas) when it comes to control cities. In both Kansas and Oregon, the dominant metro in the state is right at the state line (KC and Portland) and the capital is a short distance away. As the capitals in both states are mid-sized cities and capitals, it makes sense to sign them as a primary control. However, in both cases, there's a string of cities of decreasing size and fame in-state, and no particularly large cities in the next state for quite a ways. This is also the case with 80 in Nebraska and 80 in Wyoming.
Topeka makes sense, since it's a major route junction (Kansas Turnpike/I-335), although most traffic from KC to Wichita is going to use free I-35 instead of paying a toll to go through Lawrence and Topeka.
Going west on I-70, Topeka and then Denver is logical. There's nothing in Kansas, really, that warrants an in-state control city designation, although Salina would probably work for a supplemental (Next Town/Salina/Denver on mileage signs.)
Coming back east, what does Colorado use? Limon (in-state), Salina, Topeka, or KC?
I agree. However, going west 70 uses Topeka, then Salina, then Hays, then alternates between Limon and Denver. Eastbound from Denver uses Limon, then Salina, then Topeka.
Quote from: michravera on October 19, 2018, 04:19:30 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2018, 10:50:25 AM
Quote from: michravera on October 16, 2018, 10:25:11 AM
The first list of California cities by population gave me the top 100 and #100 was around 77000, so it might be closer to 200 (and remember that these are cities' official populations inside the city limits).
The vast majority being bedroom communities in 3 large metro areas.
Chico, Marysviille, Yuba City, Red Bluff, Merced, Madera, and Redding are a bedroom communities for which city now? LA, San Diego, or San Jose?
Tulare and Visalia are bedroom communities for which of those?
We can argue about Santa Clarita, Salinas, Santa Rosa, Palmdale, Lancaster, Escondido, and even Yucca Valley and Stockton, but CASR-99 has a *LOT* of cities that have nothing to do with The Bay Area, LA, or San Diego. And quite a few that have nothing to do with Fresno, Bakersfield, or Sacramento either. They are just there with their own importance. Not terribly important to everyone, but pretty important to the 100000 or so people who live there!
I remember navigating for my father back in 1968 along CASR-99. There was a decent sized town every couple of minutes and what seemed like big ones every 15 or 20.
To be fair, looking at the Wiki list of 100 largest California cities (2015 Census population estimates), we find:
8 cities I would consider to be anchors of major metro areas
(Los Angeles, San Diego, San Jose, San Francisco, Fresno, Sacramento, Bakersfield, Stockton)
6 cities I would consider to be secondary anchors of major metro areas
(Long Beach, Oakland, Anaheim, Santa Ana, Riverside, San Bernardino)
8 cities I would consider to be anchors of smaller areas
(Modesto, Salinas, Visalia, Santa Maria, Santa Barbara, Redding, Chico, Indio)
8 cities I would consider to be satellite cities
(Oxnard, Santa Clarita, Santa Rosa, Lancaster, Palmdale, Victorville, Ventura, Hesperia)
The other 70 cities I would consider suburbs or bedroom communities
(42 in Los Angeles/Orange County/Inland Empire; 16 in Bay Area; 7 in San Diego; 3 in Sacramento; 1 in Fresno; 1 in Stockton)
I love dramatic, far-flung control cities: Like San Antonio on I-10 in El Paso, Tampa on I-75 in Atlanta and Los Angeles on I-40 in Arizona.
Quote from: kphoger on October 15, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 15, 2018, 03:00:08 PM
Illinois tends to use secondary control cities that are in state rather than out of state. Examples:
This approach makes sense to me, although I do find East Saint Louis a little silly.
It's really not silly at all. At the I-55/70/270 interchange, both I-55/70 southbound and I-270 westbound go to St Louis. Only I-55/70 goes to East St Louis (and downtown St Louis). There is a narrow strip of St Louis City that goes upriver along Riverview until just north of the I-270/New Chain of Rocks Bridge. While I-255 southbound from Collinsville doesn't go to St Louis, the South County Mehlville/Oakville area is mostly unincorporated and uses St Louis for its addresses. East St Louis clarifies where the highway goes once you reach the STL metro.
Quote from: webny99 on October 15, 2018, 04:10:19 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 15, 2018, 02:26:15 PM
Fargo/Moorhead alternates on the bottom line on the freeway.
Yeah, what you said:
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 15, 2018, 02:26:15 PM
MN is weird in places
I have never been able to figure out why on earth they alternate Fargo and Moorhead on distance signs for hundreds of miles. For crying out loud, just pick one, preferably Fargo, and stick with it the whole way! Alternating them does nothing but generate confusion, IMO; it's almost like they couldn't decide between the in-state destination and the larger city and ended up compromising clarity through indecision.
That makes sense. If I was to get on at an interchange where it said Fargo then got off knowing I haven't even been to Fargo yet and saw Moorhead I'd be kind of confused. If they didn't want to use an out of state city they should have went with Moorhead the entire way. Fargo is quite a bit bigger than Moorhead though so I'd probably think Fargo should be the control city there.
Quote from: froggie on October 15, 2018, 06:05:53 PM
Quote from: webny99I have never been able to figure out why on earth they alternate Fargo and Moorhead on distance signs for hundreds of miles. For crying out loud, just pick one, preferably Fargo, and stick with it the whole way! Alternating them does nothing but generate confusion, IMO; it's almost like they couldn't decide between the in-state destination and the larger city and ended up compromising clarity through indecision.
Perhaps because they are effectively sister-cities that just happen to be on opposite sides of a river and state border. Both cities are in the MPO name. Fundamentally, it's not much different than alternating between Minneapolis and St. Paul on distance signage (which happens on I-35 and IIRC I-94 as well).
I'm thinking that with I-94 most of the time east of the Twin Cities it's St. Paul and west of the Twin Cities it's Minneapolis but I can't remember if this is the way it is or not. I-35 should probably use both cities since it branches off to run in both cities. I know that coming off WI-29 and US-12 northwest of Eau Claire only St. Paul is on the sign there.
Quote from: mwb1848 on October 30, 2018, 05:00:29 PM
I love dramatic, far-flung control cities: Like San Antonio on I-10 in El Paso, Tampa on I-75 in Atlanta and Los Angeles on I-40 in Arizona.
Cheers to that. I'm a big proponent of "real cites" as control cities. Local traffic know the roads anyway, and rinky dink control cities that nobody has ever heard of are useless for through traffic. Totally in favor of concepts like 5 North - Portland in Sacramento or 80 East - Omaha in Cheyenne.
Quote from: DTComposer on October 30, 2018, 02:09:52 PM
Quote from: michravera on October 19, 2018, 04:19:30 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2018, 10:50:25 AM
Quote from: michravera on October 16, 2018, 10:25:11 AM
The first list of California cities by population gave me the top 100 and #100 was around 77000, so it might be closer to 200 (and remember that these are cities' official populations inside the city limits).
The vast majority being bedroom communities in 3 large metro areas.
Chico, Marysviille, Yuba City, Red Bluff, Merced, Madera, and Redding are a bedroom communities for which city now? LA, San Diego, or San Jose?
Tulare and Visalia are bedroom communities for which of those?
We can argue about Santa Clarita, Salinas, Santa Rosa, Palmdale, Lancaster, Escondido, and even Yucca Valley and Stockton, but CASR-99 has a *LOT* of cities that have nothing to do with The Bay Area, LA, or San Diego. And quite a few that have nothing to do with Fresno, Bakersfield, or Sacramento either. They are just there with their own importance. Not terribly important to everyone, but pretty important to the 100000 or so people who live there!
I remember navigating for my father back in 1968 along CASR-99. There was a decent sized town every couple of minutes and what seemed like big ones every 15 or 20.
To be fair, looking at the Wiki list of 100 largest California cities (2015 Census population estimates), we find:
8 cities I would consider to be anchors of major metro areas
(Los Angeles, San Diego, San Jose, San Francisco, Fresno, Sacramento, Bakersfield, Stockton)
6 cities I would consider to be secondary anchors of major metro areas
(Long Beach, Oakland, Anaheim, Santa Ana, Riverside, San Bernardino)
8 cities I would consider to be anchors of smaller areas
(Modesto, Salinas, Visalia, Santa Maria, Santa Barbara, Redding, Chico, Indio)
8 cities I would consider to be satellite cities
(Oxnard, Santa Clarita, Santa Rosa, Lancaster, Palmdale, Victorville, Ventura, Hesperia)
The other 70 cities I would consider suburbs or bedroom communities
(42 in Los Angeles/Orange County/Inland Empire; 16 in Bay Area; 7 in San Diego; 3 in Sacramento; 1 in Fresno; 1 in Stockton)
Did you count Madera or Modesto (both over 150 km from Oakland) as part of Stockton or Fresno or the Bay Area? And Marysville, Yuba City (Sacramento?) and Red Bluff (Chico? Redding?) went where? You miss quite a lot flying along I-5. CASR-99 is where the Valley action is. Tulare? San Luis Obispo? (bigger than Santa Maria at least when you add Five Cities) Are you counting Monterey and Salinas and Santa Cruz, and Watsonville as part of the Bay Area? Gilroy?
The state with the least amount of in-state control cities I can think of is Utah, with Arizona being a close second.
Utah:
I-15: Salt Lake City and Ogden (Skips both Provo and St. George southbound, opting for Las Vegas. Northbound uses Pocatello)
I-215: Ogden and Provo
I-70: None.... (Uses Denver eastbound)
I-80: Salt Lake City (Uses Reno westbound and Cheyenne eastbound)
I think that Provo should be used on I-15 south if Ogden will be used on I-15 north, at least co-signed with Vegas. St. George was a small town until recently, and it's so close to Vegas I could understand why Utah skips it over, but it's still a noteworthy skip.
Arizona:
I-8: Phoenix/Tucson (I-8 hits neither of them, skips Yuma westbound, opting for San Diego. Skips Casa Grande eastbound)
I-10: Phoenix, Tucson (Westbound uses LA, Eastbound uses El Paso)
I-17: Phoenix, Flagstaff
I-19: Tucson, Nogales
I-40: Flagstaff (Uses LA westbound and Albuquerque eastbound)
Yuma and Casa Grande are much more viable options for control cities on I-8. San Diego is a major city, but Yuma has enough signficance to be listed. Heck, Yuma has a metro population of over 200k at this point. Casa Grande is a decent sized city now and the junction of two interstates (I-8 and I-10) and also should be included.
Now on the other hand, New Mexico has WAY too many control cities for only having 3 population centers:
I-10: Lordsburg, Deming, Las Cruces
I-25: Las Cruces, Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Las Vegas, Raton
I-40: Gallup, Albuquerque, Santa Rosa, Tucumcari
IMO, the only in-state control cities should be Albuquerque, Las Cruces, and Santa Fe. The others don't have enough national (or even state) signficance to be a control city.
Quote from: jaehak on October 31, 2018, 12:58:19 PM
Quote from: mwb1848 on October 30, 2018, 05:00:29 PM
I love dramatic, far-flung control cities: Like San Antonio on I-10 in El Paso, Tampa on I-75 in Atlanta and Los Angeles on I-40 in Arizona.
Cheers to that. I'm a big proponent of "real cites" as control cities. Local traffic know the roads anyway, and rinky dink control cities that nobody has ever heard of are useless for through traffic. Totally in favor of concepts like 5 North - Portland in Sacramento or 80 East - Omaha in Cheyenne.
Salt Lake City on I-15 in CA as well.
Most of the control cities used in Alabama are logical:
10: Pensacola->Mobile->Pascagoula
20: Meridian->Tuscaloosa->Birmingham->Atlanta
22: Memphis->Birmingham (although for some reason Jasper is used on guide signs in the immediate Birmingham area)
59: Meridian->Tuscaloosa->Birmingham->Gadsden->Chattanooga
65: Mobile->Montgomery->Birmingham->Huntsville->Nashville
85: Montgomery->Atlanta
The only one that I might question would on I-59 north from Birmingham. It uses Gadsden rather than Chattanooga. On the other hand, Tennessee and Georgia use Nashville and Birmingham on I-24 west leading to the I-59 junction.
Given the rapid growth of Auburn (the city as well as the university), perhaps I-85 from Montgomery should use dual control cities of Auburn and Atlanta.
Quote from: michravera on November 01, 2018, 11:21:41 AM
Quote from: DTComposer on October 30, 2018, 02:09:52 PM
Quote from: michravera on October 19, 2018, 04:19:30 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2018, 10:50:25 AM
Quote from: michravera on October 16, 2018, 10:25:11 AM
The first list of California cities by population gave me the top 100 and #100 was around 77000, so it might be closer to 200 (and remember that these are cities' official populations inside the city limits).
The vast majority being bedroom communities in 3 large metro areas.
Chico, Marysviille, Yuba City, Red Bluff, Merced, Madera, and Redding are a bedroom communities for which city now? LA, San Diego, or San Jose?
Tulare and Visalia are bedroom communities for which of those?
We can argue about Santa Clarita, Salinas, Santa Rosa, Palmdale, Lancaster, Escondido, and even Yucca Valley and Stockton, but CASR-99 has a *LOT* of cities that have nothing to do with The Bay Area, LA, or San Diego. And quite a few that have nothing to do with Fresno, Bakersfield, or Sacramento either. They are just there with their own importance. Not terribly important to everyone, but pretty important to the 100000 or so people who live there!
I remember navigating for my father back in 1968 along CASR-99. There was a decent sized town every couple of minutes and what seemed like big ones every 15 or 20.
To be fair, looking at the Wiki list of 100 largest California cities (2015 Census population estimates), we find:
8 cities I would consider to be anchors of major metro areas
(Los Angeles, San Diego, San Jose, San Francisco, Fresno, Sacramento, Bakersfield, Stockton)
6 cities I would consider to be secondary anchors of major metro areas
(Long Beach, Oakland, Anaheim, Santa Ana, Riverside, San Bernardino)
8 cities I would consider to be anchors of smaller areas
(Modesto, Salinas, Visalia, Santa Maria, Santa Barbara, Redding, Chico, Indio)
8 cities I would consider to be satellite cities
(Oxnard, Santa Clarita, Santa Rosa, Lancaster, Palmdale, Victorville, Ventura, Hesperia)
The other 70 cities I would consider suburbs or bedroom communities
(42 in Los Angeles/Orange County/Inland Empire; 16 in Bay Area; 7 in San Diego; 3 in Sacramento; 1 in Fresno; 1 in Stockton)
Did you count Madera or Modesto (both over 150 km from Oakland) as part of Stockton or Fresno or the Bay Area? And Marysville, Yuba City (Sacramento?) and Red Bluff (Chico? Redding?) went where? You miss quite a lot flying along I-5. CASR-99 is where the Valley action is. Tulare? San Luis Obispo? (bigger than Santa Maria at least when you add Five Cities) Are you counting Monterey and Salinas and Santa Cruz, and Watsonville as part of the Bay Area? Gilroy?
Please note the first sentence of my post: 100 largest California cities by population.
Not urban areas,
not metro areas. Of all the cities you mention in your post, Modesto and Salinas were in my lists; the other cities are
not in the 100 largest.
My point was not about which of these cities should or shouldn't be control cities. It was to reinforce the point that, of the 100 largest cities in California, the majority of them are indeed suburbs or bedroom communities.
That said - using urban areas (2010 populations) instead of city proper:
Red Bluff: not even an urban area, just an urban cluster. Population 18,000. Hardly control-city worthy.
Tulare: part of the Visalia urban area.
San Luis Obispo: if you include the Five Cities, population is 111,000. Still smaller than the Santa Maria urban area (130,000). That said, I do consider it a better control city candidate than Santa Maria.
Marysville/Yuba City: too close to Sacramento to be a control city other than local routes.
Watsonville: too close to Santa Cruz.
Quote from: kphoger on October 15, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 15, 2018, 03:00:08 PM
Illinois tends to use secondary control cities that are in state rather than out of state. Examples:
This approach makes sense to me, although I do find East Saint Louis a little silly.
On I-70 East St. Louis was removed (well at least from Vandalia westward) and now St. Louis is used.
Also to note only on local roads are in state cities used, as interstate to interstate junctions a major US city is always used except for I-90 west of Chicago using Rockford as control city. Also Gary is used on I-80 E Bound from Joliet eastward.
Quote from: kphoger on October 16, 2018, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 16, 2018, 06:37:06 AM
Oklahoma barely participates in the control city game; on I-35 and I-40, the only >in-state< control city is Oklahoma City. On I-44 you also get Tulsa and Lawton.
Ummm... FTFY.
I-35 north out of OKC is control-signed for Wichita. I-35 south out of OKC is control-signed for Dallas. I-40 west out of OKC is control-signed for Amarillo. I-40 east out of OKC is control-signed for Fort Smith. I-44 southwest out of Lawton is control-signed for Wichita Falls.
If in-state control cities were used instead, then it would be something like.....
I-35 Guthrie
I-35 Pauls Valley or Ardmore
I-40 Elk City
I-40 Shawnee or Henryetta
I-44 ..... shoot, I don't know, Walters?
Right, I meant in-state. At the risk of fictionalizing this, some reasonable in-state controls could be:
I-35: Ardmore, Pauls Valley, Purcell, Norman, Okla. City, Guthrie, Perry
I-40: Sayre, Elk City, Weatherford, El Reno, Okla. City, Shawnee, Henryetta, Sallisaw
I-44: Walters, Lawton, Chickasha, Newcastle, Okla. City, Tulsa
...though some of these might be getting into Illinois/Pennsylvania levels of silliness.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 04, 2018, 12:25:47 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 15, 2018, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 15, 2018, 03:00:08 PM
Illinois tends to use secondary control cities that are in state rather than out of state. Examples:
This approach makes sense to me, although I do find East Saint Louis a little silly.
On I-70 East St. Louis was removed (well at least from Vandalia westward) and now St. Louis is used.
Also to note only on local roads are in state cities used, as interstate to interstate junctions a major US city is always used except for I-90 west of Chicago using Rockford as control city. Also Gary is used on I-80 E Bound from Joliet eastward.
I-90's unusual from an IDOT perspective since ISTHA controls that one. Same is true for I-88. (It does list Moline/Rock Island and Aurora) The only IDOT freeways using mainline in-state cities are 39 (Bloomington, Rockford), 72 (Urbana-Champaign, Decatur, Springfield, Jacksonville), 74 (Peoria, Moline/Rock Island), and any 3di not crossing a state line. 24 (Uses Interstate 57 (sic) in the NW direction), 55, 57, 64, 70, 80 and 94 don't even consider in-state cities other than Chicago. 80 and 94 are even
wierder - particularly in District 1/ISTHA land where they have control
states as does I-294. Don't even get me started on the use of "Suburbs" for the control
blobs.
NC uses plenty on I-95
Roanoke Rapids
Rocky Mount
Wilson
Smithfield
Benson
Dunn
Fayetteville
Lumberton
Rowland
PA along I-80
Delaware Water Gap
Stroudsburg
Hazleton
Bloomsburg
Bellefonte
Dubois
Sharon
(there might be more for this route
Illinois has used some of the following which are a bit strange:
West Suburbs (basically this is on the Eisenhower and means that it'll take you to the western suburbs).
Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana (used on Interstate's that actually do go to those states but it seems strange to use state names instead of city names). For Wisconsin, Milwaukee could have been used.
Chicago is used on WB I-94 as far east as Detroit as well. I'm not totally sure exactly where Detroit starts being used in the Chicago area.
NH with "All Maine Points" is stranger that West Suburbs. Maine can do if Indiana is good for Illinois.
Also Milwaukee is used leaving O' Hare for I-294 NB. That may be cause I-90 also goes to WI. So using it there for I-294 might be considered controlling all interests of Wisconsin to exclusively use I-294.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 07, 2018, 12:02:55 AM
NH with "All Maine Points" is stranger that West Suburbs. Maine can do if Indiana is good for Illinois.
Also Milwaukee is used leaving O' Hare for I-294 NB. That may be cause I-90 also goes to WI. So using it there for I-294 might be considered controlling all interests of Wisconsin to exclusively use I-294.
Strange because going the opposite way they use Wisconsin for I-294 and use Indiana on the same side as they use Milwaukee. I think they should use Milwaukee and Rockford together on the stretch where I-90 and I-94 run together on the Kennedy and Dan Ryan combo and then use Milwaukee and Rockford for both at the Edens split.
I honestly don't know what control city the Eisenhower should have other than West Suburbs really it kind of makes sense because there are a lot of suburbs out there and they are west of town. It should probably really use Schaumburg or Palatine, both pretty good sized suburbs.
Mackinac Bridge is used for I-75 north of Saginaw.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2018, 11:32:03 PM
Illinois has used some of the following which are a bit strange:
West Suburbs (basically this is on the Eisenhower and means that it'll take you to the western suburbs).
Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana (used on Interstate's that actually do go to those states but it seems strange to use state names instead of city names). For Wisconsin, Milwaukee could have been used.
Chicago is used on WB I-94 as far east as Detroit as well. I'm not totally sure exactly where Detroit starts being used in the Chicago area.
Detroit is being used along the Borman I-80/94.
Toledo used to be the CC on I-80 East from the I-55 junction near Joliet into the 90s. Not sure if it was replaced by Gary or something else.
Quote from: thenetwork on November 07, 2018, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2018, 11:32:03 PM
Illinois has used some of the following which are a bit strange:
West Suburbs (basically this is on the Eisenhower and means that it'll take you to the western suburbs).
Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana (used on Interstate's that actually do go to those states but it seems strange to use state names instead of city names). For Wisconsin, Milwaukee could have been used.
Chicago is used on WB I-94 as far east as Detroit as well. I'm not totally sure exactly where Detroit starts being used in the Chicago area.
Detroit is being used along the Borman I-80/94.
Toledo used to be the CC on I-80 East from the I-55 junction near Joliet into the 90s. Not sure if it was replaced by Gary or something else.
I never understood why South Bend wasn't used for EB I-80/90.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 07, 2018, 12:15:33 AM
I honestly don't know what control city the Eisenhower should have other than West Suburbs really it kind of makes sense because there are a lot of suburbs out there and they are west of town. It should probably really use Schaumburg or Palatine, both pretty good sized suburbs.
Having lived in the west suburbs of Chicago, I think it makes perfect sense. When I tell people where I used to live, I refer to the area as "the west suburbs of Chicago".
Quote from: kphoger on November 07, 2018, 01:17:26 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 07, 2018, 12:15:33 AM
I honestly don't know what control city the Eisenhower should have other than West Suburbs really it kind of makes sense because there are a lot of suburbs out there and they are west of town. It should probably really use Schaumburg or Palatine, both pretty good sized suburbs.
Having lived in the west suburbs of Chicago, I think it makes perfect sense. When I tell people where I used to live, I refer to the area as "the west suburbs of Chicago".
When I lived in Elmhurst I would just tell people I'm in the western suburbs of Chicago when anyone asked where I was from. Actually I was closer to O'Hare than I was to The Loop.
Quote from: kphoger on November 07, 2018, 01:17:26 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 07, 2018, 12:15:33 AM
I honestly don't know what control city the Eisenhower should have other than West Suburbs really it kind of makes sense because there are a lot of suburbs out there and they are west of town. It should probably really use Schaumburg or Palatine, both pretty good sized suburbs.
Having lived in the west suburbs of Chicago, I think it makes perfect sense. When I tell people where I used to live, I refer to the area as "the west suburbs of Chicago".
Along I-90 in Cleveland, there are still overhead supplemental BGS near I-271 that say Eastern Suburbs, Next Right/Left.
Meanwhile, along I 480 Westboud FROM I-271, there used to be overhead BGSs that said I-480 West -- Cleveland - West Suburbs. Those signs ha e since been replaced with Cleveland &/or Toledo as the CC(s).
Very clear from the discussions above that it is best for the motoring public if control cities chosen for 2dis (and for specific 3dis) were limited to cities of national importance until there aren't any left. Within most states there are only a handful of cities that qualify. It seems like AZ and UT have the right idea, the cities chosen are really helpful to the long-distance motorists who are less likely to be familiar with the area.
Specific to Chicago area, I'm not a fan of their use of states because of the inherent lack of specificity. All Wisconsin controls should be renamed for Milwaukee. Rockford can be added as a secondary control to the extent that it makes sense and there is room (along the joint 90/94). South Bend can be the control to replace Indiana. Although I-94 does not go to South Bend, a lot of traffic uses it to reach the 80/90. IMO Detroit should only be a control from Portage IN east and Toledo should only be used on 80/90 east of South Bend. Iowa should be replaced with Des Moines.
Joliet should be used as a secondary control along portions of I-80 where appropriate.
Not a fan of the use of suburbs, either. I-355's control cities should be Joliet and Schaumburg entirely. I-290's control should be Aurora from the Loop until at least Western Ave and then the control can be Aurora with Schuamburg as a secondary. (Schaumburg should be the sole control west of the I-88 split.)
Quote from: michravera on November 01, 2018, 11:21:41 AM
Did you count Madera or Modesto (both over 150 km from Oakland) as part of Stockton or Fresno or the Bay Area? And Marysville, Yuba City (Sacramento?) and Red Bluff (Chico? Redding?) went where? You miss quite a lot flying along I-5. CASR-99 is where the Valley action is. Tulare? San Luis Obispo? (bigger than Santa Maria at least when you add Five Cities) Are you counting Monterey and Salinas and Santa Cruz, and Watsonville as part of the Bay Area? Gilroy?
Why are you identifying distances in kilometers?
Quote from: thenetwork on November 07, 2018, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2018, 11:32:03 PM
Illinois has used some of the following which are a bit strange:
West Suburbs (basically this is on the Eisenhower and means that it'll take you to the western suburbs).
Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana (used on Interstate's that actually do go to those states but it seems strange to use state names instead of city names). For Wisconsin, Milwaukee could have been used.
Chicago is used on WB I-94 as far east as Detroit as well. I'm not totally sure exactly where Detroit starts being used in the Chicago area.
Detroit is being used along the Borman I-80/94.
Toledo used to be the CC on I-80 East from the I-55 junction near Joliet into the 90s. Not sure if it was replaced by Gary or something else.
Indiana. Yes, just Indiana.
Quote from: Brandon on November 13, 2018, 12:11:47 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on November 07, 2018, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2018, 11:32:03 PM
Illinois has used some of the following which are a bit strange:
West Suburbs (basically this is on the Eisenhower and means that it'll take you to the western suburbs).
Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana (used on Interstate's that actually do go to those states but it seems strange to use state names instead of city names). For Wisconsin, Milwaukee could have been used.
Chicago is used on WB I-94 as far east as Detroit as well. I'm not totally sure exactly where Detroit starts being used in the Chicago area.
Detroit is being used along the Borman I-80/94.
Toledo used to be the CC on I-80 East from the I-55 junction near Joliet into the 90s. Not sure if it was replaced by Gary or something else.
Indiana. Yes, just Indiana.
Reminds me of this https://goo.gl/maps/xtUhv4zAn492
The one I always find odd, because it is inconsistent, are the Controls @ the I-80 and I-55 Cloverlead
I-80's Controls are State-based (Iowa and Indiana). I-55's are Cities - Chicago and St Louis
I-55 North has to stay Chicago, obviously, but if I-80 uses "Next State" Controls, why not have I-55 signed for Missouri instead of St Louis?
Or, conversely, and really preferably, leave the I-55 Controls as Chicago and St Louis, but change I-80's (back?) to Des Moines and Toledo
If you want to use "Next State" as an Interstate Control, at least do it consistently. But really, Controls should be Cities or Points of Interest
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on October 16, 2018, 01:31:21 AM
Quote from: epzik8 on October 16, 2018, 01:14:40 AM
Maryland has:
I-68: Cumberland and maybe Hancock
Yes to Hancock. Signage on US 220 South just north of the I-68/US 220 concurrency displays "I-68 EAST/MD 144 Hancock". Also can add Frostburg. Pull-thru signage on I-68 West at Exit 39 reads "I-68/US 40 WEST Frostburg"
Frostburg is only used westbound. I tend to think they should just dump it for Morgantown. This is especially the case from LaVale, where most cars going to Frostburg just use Alt US 40 rather than I-68 to MD 36.
Quote from: ilpt4u on November 14, 2018, 09:30:05 PM
The one I always find odd, because it is inconsistent, are the Controls @ the I-80 and I-55 Cloverlead
I-80's Controls are State-based (Iowa and Indiana). I-55's are Cities - Chicago and St Louis
I-55 North has to stay Chicago, obviously, but if I-80 uses "Next State" Controls, why not have I-55 signed for Missouri instead of St Louis?
Or, conversely, and really preferably, leave the I-55 Controls as Chicago and St Louis, but change I-80's (back?) to Des Moines and Toledo
If you want to use "Next State" as an Interstate Control, at least do it consistently. But really, Controls should be Cities or Points of Interest
You'd use Toledo at the I-55 interchange over places like South Bend? I'm just saying though, Toledo is 260 miles from the I-55 interchange and there is another state in between with 2 or 3 cities that could be used over Toledo.
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on November 14, 2018, 09:20:20 PM
Quote from: Brandon on November 13, 2018, 12:11:47 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on November 07, 2018, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2018, 11:32:03 PM
Illinois has used some of the following which are a bit strange:
West Suburbs (basically this is on the Eisenhower and means that it'll take you to the western suburbs).
Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana (used on Interstate's that actually do go to those states but it seems strange to use state names instead of city names). For Wisconsin, Milwaukee could have been used.
Chicago is used on WB I-94 as far east as Detroit as well. I'm not totally sure exactly where Detroit starts being used in the Chicago area.
Detroit is being used along the Borman I-80/94.
Toledo used to be the CC on I-80 East from the I-55 junction near Joliet into the 90s. Not sure if it was replaced by Gary or something else.
Indiana. Yes, just Indiana.
Reminds me of this https://goo.gl/maps/xtUhv4zAn492
On I-94 in Detroit at the I-96 interchange the control cities are as follows: Lansing and Bridge To Canada. Then once you get on the exit ramps from I-94 to I-96 it just says Canada and Lansing.
Here's an eastbound I-94 vantage point
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3454003,-83.1119562,3a,75y,355.46h,88.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHcmR03qS_k65H7o1zLkGMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Then further into my last post, once your on I-96 and coming up to the end at I-75 it just says Toledo and nothing about the Bridge To Canada which at this point is right in front of you. Then once your on the ramp for southbound I-75 it's mentioned as the very last exit on I-96.
This is the actual exit for the Ambassador Bridge:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3251357,-83.084499,3a,75y,144.21h,87.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swH6pyCASZ_x_4EJr5bB1zA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: jaehak on October 31, 2018, 12:58:19 PM
Quote from: mwb1848 on October 30, 2018, 05:00:29 PM
I love dramatic, far-flung control cities: Like San Antonio on I-10 in El Paso, Tampa on I-75 in Atlanta and Los Angeles on I-40 in Arizona.
Cheers to that. I'm a big proponent of "real cites" as control cities. Local traffic know the roads anyway, and rinky dink control cities that nobody has ever heard of are useless for through traffic. Totally in favor of concepts like 5 North - Portland in Sacramento or 80 East - Omaha in Cheyenne.
I'd like to see a change to allow one local or regional control city and one long-distance control city or more than one long-distance city, then get rid of the ones that are basically just standing in for interstate junctions like Barstow and Lake City from the approved long-distance list.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 07, 2018, 12:02:55 AM
NH with "All Maine Points" is stranger that West Suburbs. Maine can do if Indiana is good for Illinois.
Also Milwaukee is used leaving O' Hare for I-294 NB. That may be cause I-90 also goes to WI. So using it there for I-294 might be considered controlling all interests of Wisconsin to exclusively use I-294.
"All Maine Points" is even more nonsensical when you consider that Maine and Massachusetts are both control points on I-95 at one of the Seacoast entrances (the exact one escapes me right now).
I don't know why NHDOT resists using Portland as a control city.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 27, 2018, 09:11:25 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 07, 2018, 12:02:55 AM
NH with "All Maine Points" is stranger that West Suburbs. Maine can do if Indiana is good for Illinois.
Also Milwaukee is used leaving O' Hare for I-294 NB. That may be cause I-90 also goes to WI. So using it there for I-294 might be considered controlling all interests of Wisconsin to exclusively use I-294.
"All Maine Points" is even more nonsensical when you consider that Maine and Massachusetts are both control points on I-95 at one of the Seacoast entrances (the exact one escapes me right now).
I don't know why NHDOT resists using Portland as a control city.
From what I have seen on this on this board, in Europe, they seem to post DISTANCE signs only to the frontier with the next country. In the US we could do it to the border with the next state. California is pretty good about posting DISTANCES to cities in other states (at least to Portland, Reno, and Las Vegas. It seemed that we are a little squeamish about Phoenix.)
But CONTROL Cities are another matter. What additional value is provided by "All Maine Points" over simply "Maine".
Last week I took a trip to Arizona and that "Indio / Other Desert Cities" sign showed up again on I-10. I could see that they are trying to avoid picking one of the Palm/Desert/Hot/Springs or La Quinta or Cathedral City over each other, but why not just pick the most distant and have done with it or simply say "Desert" or just post "Blythe"?
Quote from: michravera on November 28, 2018, 12:05:03 AM
What additional value is provided by "All Maine Points" over simply "Maine".
To make sure it's ALL of Maine, not just Maine in general.
However, at the I-95/NH 16 split, it's used incorrectly; parts of Maine would be better using NH 16 than I-95.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 27, 2018, 09:11:25 PM"All Maine Points" is even more nonsensical when you consider that Maine and Massachusetts are both control points on I-95 at one of the Seacoast entrances (the exact one escapes me right now).
It's this location (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0728505,-70.7817673,3a,75y,194.58h,79.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH79nZ0jq8TY-XsS4qoshXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
Quote from: 1 on November 28, 2018, 05:38:02 AM
Quote from: michravera on November 28, 2018, 12:05:03 AM
What additional value is provided by "All Maine Points" over simply "Maine".
To make sure it's ALL of Maine, not just Maine in general.
However, at the I-95/NH 16 split, it's used incorrectly; parts of Maine would be better using NH 16 than I-95.
All the more reason to use
Portland, ME for the I-95 northbound signage.
Quote from: michravera on November 28, 2018, 12:05:03 AM
From what I have seen on this on this board, in Europe, they seem to post DISTANCE signs only to the frontier with the next country. In the US we could do it to the border with the next state.
I wonder if that is because posting mileage to a point in a foreign country would require access to route logs from that foreign country. I suppose that would be easier to do between states than between countries.
(I do note that there cases of the US posting distances to foreign cities.)