New Interstate 885 in Durham

[wdcrft63]

Some news regarding the I-885 designation and what will become of NC-147:

https://www.city-data.com/forum/raleigh-durham-chapel-hill-cary/1703414-durham-east-end-connector-7.html#post56883566

I'm pleased that NC 147 will be truncated at I-885, eliminating a useless concurrence.

The idea of routing US 70 over the remaining NC 147 Durham Freeway route is the kind of thing that appeals to road geeks like those of us in the forum, but I doubt that it would be popular in Durham. The Durham Freeway inside Durham is old, probably limited to 4 lanes, and it has two rather sharp curves; it's not really an appropriate route for through traffic compared to the 8 lane plus I-85.

[orulz]

Are you saying that there might be a grassroots movement to keep things confusing and inconsistent in order to reduce through traffic? As you mention, I don't think the general public gives a flip about highway numbering. It seems to me that, pretty much universally, folks in Durham don't care - everyone would just say "oh" and go about their day. Signing it as US 70 would have basically zero impact on through traffic (in these days of Waze and Google Maps.) People *do* care about highway construction - new routes, widenings, upgrades, etc. For example, MacGregor Downs trying to get US64 in Cary/Apex re-designated as US64 business, and mainline US64 signed over NC540 and US1. But they were just trying to weaponize the numbering plan as a way to prevent a freeway upgrade - they didn't actually care about the numbering. I am unaware of any instance where there was a popular movement in response to a numbering plan alone. Might have happened, but if so, it's not common.

Although, this is NC after all, so upgrading a route's designation is a big thing for economic development types. So I suppose there could be backlash, but I just haven't heard of it.

[Roadsguy]

It's going to be very fun getting these changes on Wikipedia and OSM... It does answer some questions raised by the signs that have already been put up, though, explaining why I-885's mileage-based exits were changed to start at NC 540 and especially why Briggs Avenue is now Exit 1 on NC 147, shown in this image from MalmeRoads:



I hope that obviously last-minute-changed exit tab isn't indicative of the would-be NC 147 shields south of the connector...

[bob7374]

Some news regarding the I-885 designation and what will become of NC-147:

https://www.city-data.com/forum/raleigh-durham-chapel-hill-cary/1703414-durham-east-end-connector-7.html#post56883566

I'm pleased that NC 147 will be truncated at I-885, eliminating a useless concurrence.

The idea of routing US 70 over the remaining NC 147 Durham Freeway route is the kind of thing that appeals to road geeks like those of us in the forum, but I doubt that it would be popular in Durham. The Durham Freeway inside Durham is old, probably limited to 4 lanes, and it has two rather sharp curves; it's not really an appropriate route for through traffic compared to the 8 lane plus I-85.

Yes, guess this means the 'Exit 1' tab for the new sign for put up for Briggs Avenue was not a mistake, and that all the exits on NC 147 will be renumbered. If the new exit numbers will be the current ones - 9, then:
Briggs Ave  (10)                          Exit 1
NC 55/Allston Ave (11)                Exit 2
Fayetteville St (12A)                    Exit 3A
Bus. 15/501 Downtown (12B)       Exit 3B
Duke St (NB)   (12C)                   Exit 3C
Chapel Hill St  (13)                      Exit 4
Swift Ave/Duke East Campus (14) Exit 5
Elba St/Trent Dr (NB) (15A)          Exit 6A
Hillandale Rd/Fulton St (15B)        Exit 6B
US 15/501 Chapel Hill (16A/B)      Exit 7A/B

[Henry]

As much as I hate to admit it, shortening NC 147 to make room for I-885 is definitely the right move.

[Roadsguy]

I contacted NCDOT for some clarification, and someone got back very quickly and even sent me the latest revised signing plans. They don't feature all the changes, namely the Triangle Expressway signing changes and NC 147 remileposting/exit renumbering. The Triangle Expressway signage apparently is still being coordinated with the NCTA, and the NC 147 exit renumbering might be let as a separate contract. There is, however, one instance of an NC 885 shield in these latest plans:


This one is probably only here because it's an advance sign on I-40 for both exits. Everywhere else, signs for the Durham Freeway and Triangle Expressway are separate, and only the Durham Freeway signage is modified in these plans.


All other signs on I-40 are only for north I-885, with NC 147 relegated to "To" since it's not going to be concurrent with 885.


This one replaces a nearly identical one (just changing NC 147 to I-885) on northbound 147. It may be a holdover from the original version of the plan, though the original signing plan sheets didn't go this far down 147. Either way, this should eventually read "NC 885 Toll / Toll Road Ends."

Some other things of note:

• As I already mentioned, the plans don't include renumbering all of NC 147's exits, just Briggs Avenue. As we've already seen, it's Exit 1 northbound. Southbound, however, 10B and 10A become Exit 1C (speculation, not shown) and 1B, with 1A being the southbound exit flyover to the connector. The roadway merging onto southbound I-885 has no exit number for it. (EDIT: Has the Exit 1B signage for Briggs Avenue on NC 147 southbound been installed yet?)
• The mismatch of Exit 4/Exit 5/Exit 6B at each end of the connector is no more. The NC 147, US 70, and NC 98/US 70 Business exits are now Exit 9, Exit 10, and Exit 11, respectively.
• Though none of the Triangle Expressway signage is modified in these plans (except for the one mentioned above), I imagine that nothing more needs to be done than simply slapping NC 885 shields over the NC 147 shields and "To I-885" shields over the "To NC 147" shields. (Existing signage at the 147/540 interchange treats regular/toll NC 147 and regular/toll NC 540 as separate routes for some reason.)

[tolbs17]

Will 885 replace 147?

What number would this be? I think it should be something other than 147 because it looks kind of funny in my opinion. Let's maybe call it an I-185 or something.

http://prntscr.com/qcssdg

[wdcrft63]

Are you saying that there might be a grassroots movement to keep things confusing and inconsistent in order to reduce through traffic? As you mention, I don't think the general public gives a flip about highway numbering. It seems to me that, pretty much universally, folks in Durham don't care - everyone would just say "oh" and go about their day. Signing it as US 70 would have basically zero impact on through traffic (in these days of Waze and Google Maps.) People *do* care about highway construction - new routes, widenings, upgrades, etc. For example, MacGregor Downs trying to get US64 in Cary/Apex re-designated as US64 business, and mainline US64 signed over NC540 and US1. But they were just trying to weaponize the numbering plan as a way to prevent a freeway upgrade - they didn't actually care about the numbering. I am unaware of any instance where there was a popular movement in response to a numbering plan alone. Might have happened, but if so, it's not common.

Although, this is NC after all, so upgrading a route's designation is a big thing for economic development types. So I suppose there could be backlash, but I just haven't heard of it.

I'm not saying that rerouting US 70 is a bad idea, only that I don't think it will happen. (And by the way there's nothing "confusing and inconsistent" about leaving US 70 where it is.)

The public does have opinions on road numbering in some cases. The public despised the "Inner" and "Outer" designations on I-440 and got that signage eliminated. There's was also some grumbling about the quick changes east of Raleigh, US 64 to I-495 and then to I-87.

To argue for the rerouting, you need a reason other than "let's be tidy and eliminate a concurrence." That's not going to sell with NCDOT, IMO. I think the reason would have to be, "Let's bring US 70 through downtown Durham to help drivers reach downtown easily." Maybe that would sell, but I remain doubtful.

[LM117]

The ramp from Briggs Avenue to NC-147 South will close for 30 days.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-06-briggs-avenue-durham-freeway-ramp-closure.aspx

[LM117]

The ramp from Briggs Avenue to NC-147 South will close for 30 days.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-06-briggs-avenue-durham-freeway-ramp-closure.aspx

An update on that press release says that the closure has been postponed.

[The Ghostbuster]

So Interstate 885 overhead signage has been installed and covered up, even though 885 has not been officially approved. I guess the 885 designation is a go, with or without approval.

[LM117]

So Interstate 885 overhead signage has been installed and covered up, even though 885 has not been officially approved. I guess the 885 designation is a go, with or without approval.

From what I was told, FHWA doesn't seem to have a problem with it. It's just a matter of getting AASHTO to approve the number, which will most likely happen during their spring meeting.

[bob7374]

So Interstate 885 overhead signage has been installed and covered up, even though 885 has not been officially approved. I guess the 885 designation is a go, with or without approval.

From what I was told, FHWA doesn't seem to have a problem with it. It's just a matter of getting AASHTO to approve the number, which will most likely happen during their spring meeting.

This year's spring meeting will be in Kansas City from May 26 to 29.

[bob7374]

While the signs for Future I-885 interchange with NC 147 North are covered over, those on the one overhead gantry that has been put up for the Future I-885 South exit with US 70 East at the other end of the project are not. Here's the uncovered I-885 shield on that sign, courtesy of David Johnson:


More new photos of construction of the East End Connector are at: http://www.malmeroads.net/ncfutints/fut885.html

[The Ghostbuster]

On Wikipedia, it says that NC 147/future NC 885 will be extended to connect with McCrimmon Parkway. Is this accurate, and if so, is there a date set for its construction?

[dfilpus]

On Wikipedia, it says that NC 147/future NC 885 will be extended to connect with McCrimmon Parkway. Is this accurate, and if so, is there a date set for its construction?

That extension has not been in any STIP for years now. Wikipedia calls it a "proposed future project".

[sprjus4]

On Wikipedia, it says that NC 147/future NC 885 will be extended to connect with McCrimmon Parkway. Is this accurate, and if so, is there a date set for its construction?

That extension has not been in any STIP for years now. Wikipedia calls it a "proposed future project".

https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/nc-147-extension/Pages/default.aspx

Funded for construction in 2027 in the 2020 - 2029 STIP.

[orulz]

They don't have a clearly determined route for the extension yet. Original plans had it connecting directly to Town Hall Drive but Morrisville doesn't want that anymore.

Here's my suggestion: Connect Little Drive to Town Hall Drive, connect 147 directly to Davis (with a southbound flyover), and add a half diamond interchange between 147 and Little Drive.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=14bKq_IF4U-bnCf80PqjjPrZGrAupFpkX

[LM117]

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-03-05-nc-147-southbound-lane-closure.aspx

DURHAM – N.C. Department of Transportation contractors are set to close the inside southbound lane of N.C. 147 (Durham Freeway) from Alston Avenue to Ellis Road this weekend as part of the East End Connector project.

This closure, from Friday at 9 p.m. until Monday at 5 a.m., is required to complete rehabilitation of the bridge over the CSX railroad and associated roadway work.

The work is weather dependent and subject to change.

Drivers should pay extra attention and allow extra time to navigate the work zone.

[bob7374]

NCDOT announces again that it will be closing the Briggs Ave. ramp to NC 147 South for a month as part of the final phase of East End Connector construction along the Durham Freeway:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-03-09-briggs-ave-ramp-southbound-nc-147-closure.aspx

[LM117]

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-04-01-nc-147-southbound-lane-closure.aspx

DURHAM – N.C. Department of Transportation contractors are set to close one of the two southbound lanes of N.C. 147 (Durham Freeway) from Alston Avenue (Exit 11) to Ellis Road (Exit 8) as part of the East End Connector project.

This closure, from Thursday at 9 a.m. until Monday at 7 a.m., is required to complete rehabilitation of the bridge over the CSX railroad.

Crews will first close the inside lane, then switch to the outside lane to complete temporary lane striping. This temporary striping pattern will shift traffic to the inside shoulder to allow the contractor to complete work on the bridge behind a concrete barrier.

The work is weather dependent and subject to change.

Drivers should pay attention throughout the work zone and anticipate the closure may cause slight travel delays.​

[bob7374]

Meanwhile, taking advantage of the lane closure for the above project, contractors have installed the first advance overhead sign for the I-885/East End Connector interchange on NC 147 South, seen here captured by the Briggs Avenue traffic camera:

[bob7374]

Thanks to David Johnson, I now have a closeup photo of the sign in the traffic camera image above:


The layout of the shields seen on the left side, I-885 on the left, and what can be seen of an I-40 shield on the right, implies another shield in the center. This was the case for the original sign plan when NC 147 was to continue along I-885 South. Did the contractor install an outdated sign? This theory is bolstered by the number in the exit tab, 9. That was the exit number in the original plan, but was changed to 1A in the new sign plans I've seen.

Other new photos taken at the East End Connector interchange on NC 147 South are at:
http://www.malmeroads.net/ncfutints/fut885.html

[Roadsguy]

Thanks to David Johnson, I now have a closeup photo of the sign in the traffic camera image above:


The layout of the shields seen on the left side, I-885 on the left, and what can be seen of an I-40 shield on the right, implies another shield in the center. This was the case for the original sign plan when NC 147 was to continue along I-885 South. Did the contractor install an outdated sign? This theory is bolstered by the number in the exit tab, 9. That was the exit number in the original plan, but was changed to 1A in the new sign plans I've seen.

Other new photos taken at the East End Connector interchange on NC 147 South are at:
http://www.malmeroads.net/ncfutints/fut885.html

I really hope they didn't just go the slap-blank-overlays-on-fabricated-signs route for the NC 147 changes...

[wdcrft63]

Does anyone have any info on when I-885 might be open? I believe the contract estimated completion date is in October, so perhaps the road could open sometime this summer. I haven't seen anything in the local press about this.