Road enthusiasts - working in your hobby

[corco]

I totally believe it- road enthusiasts have too many ideas. For the 99% of people who work for their paycheck and just want to get the job done, they'd find us annoying.

We'd be constantly trying to renumber things and change state highway sign graphics and destroy sign replacement projects so whatever random cutout gets to live and lobby for cool new interchanges to be built at exorbitant expense. I think a "holier than thou" attitude can develop there too- Grizzled Paycheck DOT Guy who knows stuff would say "x is right" and then some would fire back "Yeah well I've devoted my whole life to learning the history of x and I have a website pertaining to the topic so I'm right"."

If I worked for a DOT the last person I'd hire would be an open road enthusiast (the key word being open- one that keeps it to himself (i.e. never brings it up, so I as the employer don't know about it) and doesn't allow himself to get too attached to the projects he is working on could be a real asset).

When I interviewed for my current job where I work for WyDOT under contract from my employer who is not WyDOT (knowing the work I did would be for WyDOT), I absolutely did not mention my love for roads. That didn't come until much, much later (and WyDOT does not and will not know about it (unless they've googled me for some reason)- only my direct employer).

[xonhulu]

I totally believe it- road enthusiasts have too many ideas. For the 99% of people who work for their paycheck and just want to get the job done, they'd find us annoying. /

Another piece of advice I heard years ago: never get a job doing your hobby, you'll end up resenting it because it's your job.  Not sure this is 100% true, but I could see some merit in it.  After all, for many people a hobby is their refuge from the tedium of their jobs.

[mightyace]

Another piece of advice I heard years ago: never get a job doing your hobby, you'll end up resenting it because it's your job.  Not sure this is 100% true, but I could see some merit in it.  After all, for many people a hobby is their refuge from the tedium of their jobs.

I would tend to say that it depends.

If I were to work as a computer programmer (my chosen profession) for a state DOT or a railroad, that might well be the case.

If I was taking photos for publicity purposes for my employer, that might well be enjoyable.

[Alps]

I totally believe it- road enthusiasts have too many ideas. For the 99% of people who work for their paycheck and just want to get the job done, they'd find us annoying.

A lot more highway engineers work for their paycheck than actually are enthusiastic, but I've found that even though there are almost no true road enthusiasts among us, there are many sympathetic to/interested in the cause.  My boss is one of them, for example.  Way back in the day, m.t.r. not only jumpstarted my interest in the hobby, but introduced me to the idea that it could be a profession.  I've never looked back, and I couldn't be happier.

[Chris]

Traffic engineering is a very unknown profession in the Netherlands, yet you are in contact with it every day. I went to college, picked traffic engineering, but dropped out half a year later due to difficulties, my previous high-school education didn't fit really into the requirements of traffic engineering, although I was accepted. (there are several high school levels in the Netherlands)

I didn't consider myself a road enthusiast back then in 2003, and worked a few years as supervisor in a supermarket. After finding out it wasn't what I wanted and didn't see any (financial) future in it, I wanted to do something different. I developed into a road enthusiast mainly from 2004 onwards. Before that, I was mainly a map / geography geek, getting straight A's in geography and earth science in high school. In 2007, I started a whole new job, as a project employee in a private traffic consultancy. We generally work for lower governments (municipalities), provincial DOT's and with urban design consultancies.

I mainly make traffic noise assessment reports and air quality surveys, with computer models. A side project is usually conducting traffic counts on roads with a lower hierarchy (generally under 20,000 AADT), and several other traffic surveys, such as parking count /duration surveys, traffic flow surveys and intersection counts.

[roadfro]

I've been a roadgeek as long as I can remember.  That's what prompted me to go into civil engineering for my college major. A traffic operations course I took as an undergrad combined with my lifelong love of roads is part of the reason I began pursuing a master's in traffic engineering (which is unfortunately on hold at present).

Even now, I'm looking for a job as a civil/traffic engineer--which will probably end up being for a consultant as opposed to a city/county/DOT with the way the economy is right now. The way I see it, my enthusiasm for this kind of stuff will help me in my future contributions to projects. Sure, I'll probably get annoyed when things don't quite go how the roadgeek in me would like to see them, but that part of me will have to defer to the professional side.

[J N Winkler]

Another piece of advice I heard years ago: never get a job doing your hobby, you'll end up resenting it because it's your job.  Not sure this is 100% true, but I could see some merit in it.  After all, for many people a hobby is their refuge from the tedium of their jobs.

I think much of the truth in that comes from the difference between doing something in a production environment and doing it as a hobby.  As a hobbyist, you are free to pick and choose the facets that are of interest to you and to work with them without external pressures such as deadlines.

My big thing is designing signs but I don't think I would like to do it as a sign designer working for a state DOT or consultant.  The main reason is that I have my own particular set of tools for designing signs in CorelDRAW which works well for me, whereas in a state DOT/consultant office I would have to design signs in SignCAD running as a MicroStation bolt-on--not least because many state DOTs actually require that sign designs be developed in SignCAD so that they can archive the SignCAD files.  I know in general terms how text blocks, shields, and ruled elements should be arranged on a sign panel, but I have little experience with MicroStation and zero with SignCAD, so I would have to climb a steep learning curve before I could start translating my visions for signs into reality.

Also, if you are preparing a set of contract signing plans, you can't just draw up the signface designs and be done with it.  You also have to consider mounting, sign substrates, sheeting specifications, and how sign locations will be marked in the field.  That means compiling summary tables and details for mounting (including elevations for overhead signs) which also go into the signing plans set.  It is a lot to do if you are just one designer putting together a complete plans set, and I would say about 80% of it is tedium.  Even if you work in a team, you can't forever foist all the boring stuff on other people--sooner or later you have to do your share and this is especially true for the aspects (and there will be some) which you personally find tedious but which you can do better than anyone else on the team.

Also, it is not that common for a traffic engineer to have the freedom to specialize in guide sign design.  I appreciate that it is necessary to have traffic signals and road markings for a well-ordered road system, and that it takes skilled personnel to design these, but personally I want no part of that work.  I would sooner go to a Soviet gulag than attempt to design traffic signals for a living.

I think the best defense against ruining your hobby by making it your job is simply to have multiple hobbies.

[roadfro]

I think the best defense against ruining your hobby by making it your job is simply to have multiple hobbies.

I think that sums it up right there.

[hbelkins]

The only thing that makes me resentful of my job is the politics involved. My job is the perfect marriage of my education and previous experience (journalism) and my personal interests. However, I am not a fan of the current administration running (or I should say ruining) Kentucky and my job requires me to interact with some of them. Just yesterday I had to attend a TE check presentation by the governor, whom I did not and do not support and in fact despise. Luckily I was able to avoid any personal interaction with him.

[Scott5114]

I've found that a lot of how much you enjoy your job is directly correlated to your supervisors' competency and management style.

[Chris]

The only thing that makes me resentful of my job is the politics involved.

I know what you mean, as a traffic engineering consultancy, you often work to certain specifications - some of them you don't really agree with such as street design, traffic flow, etc. Especially in the Netherlands where it's almost the rule to obstruct traffic as much as possible - even if it doesn't make any sense. (i.e. over-the-top traffic calming measures)

For example if your client (local DOT or government) says you have to design 4 speed bumps on a certain section of road - and you do not agree with the speed bumps - there's always someone else that wants to do it. So you have to do it, otherwise they pass the job to someone else.

[J N Winkler]

Another advantage to pursuing something as a hobby rather than as a profession is the freedom to be incompetent.  For example, I do a fair amount of programming in order to reduce the need to interact with electronic document management systems which have highway construction plans I am interested in.  I have gained some proficiency with batch programming (which is very helpful for organizing files) and I have found out how to retrieve session identifiers and pass them through URLs, but the programs I write tend to be simple with few, if any, subroutine calls.  I am very uncomfortable passing variables to a subroutine, let alone writing object-oriented code.

[Duke87]

We'd be constantly trying to renumber things and change state highway sign graphics and destroy sign replacement projects so whatever random cutout gets to live and lobby for cool new interchanges to be built at exorbitant expense.

In that case, the fault is not being a road enthusiast, the fault is having unrealistic expectations. You need to be able to separate fantasy from reality, and not go crazy trying to turn the former into the latter.

[aswnl]

We'd be constantly trying to renumber things and change state highway sign graphics and destroy sign replacement projects so whatever random cutout gets to live and lobby for cool new interchanges to be built at exorbitant expense.

As a traffic engineer and Dutch national DOT employee myself I can describe myself as a professional being very interested in roadinfrastructure around the globe and for all its history. The word geek is one I don't use to describe myself. I can't understand the "love" for road-numbers which is showed in the phrase above either. Just like I'm interested in (the history of) railwayinfrastructure and I really can't understand why people are putting time into keeping a record on the numbers of loco's and cars...

[Alex]

Several years ago I was able to land a job that a road enthusiast would either love or hate: a cartographer for a Florida map company. I was paid to edit maps, conduct research for them both in the field and in the office, and work on the finished product's cartography. While it was frustrating at times like any other job, it was the best job I ever had. I married my love of roads with my love of maps and was able to convince the owner to adopt some of my road-enthusiast-based changes too.

That company went out of business and I ended up working for a more national-based company, where the management was not so interested in making road-enthusiast type changes, nor letting one that conducts research also do the actual cartography (those two processes were separated and they were not willing to make an exception). This was a case where being a road enthusiast at the job was a drawback, as my attention to detail clashed with their lack of care for quality or accuracy on their product.



Probably the best aspect of the map making was being paid to drive around (I ended up driving every U.S., state and county road in three counties in that first mapping job), being able to put things on the map that a road geek would love (I updated an old Florida Keys fold map and put a POI on there for "End of U.S. 1", introduced Florida Toll shields in place of their plain circles, etc.), and seeing a map project from start to finish (I worked on a project for Baldwin County, Alabama from raw files through to a completed 130-page atlas).

[Laura]

Hey, all...I know that a lot of you have careers that are directly related to being a roadgeek. Who are you and what are they?

I ask because I'm seriously considering going to graduate school in the near future for urban planning (most likely starting in 2012.) It's funny, I never considered that I could have a career related to roads at all until I took a history course my junior year of undergrad called "Rise of the American City," and the major point of the course is that transportation completely affected how American Cities were built. At this point, it dawned on me that I was possibly in the wrong major and that my hobby of reading/collecting maps, reading about and driving on roads could be turned into something...useful.

I'm leaning towards urban planning because part of the main reason I love learning about roads and experiencing them is because I love the history behind them - why they were (or weren't) put there, who they served (or didn't) - the social side to them. The people affected. I'm reading a book right now about the history of segregation in real estate in Baltimore, and it's so fascinating because it goes hand-in-hand with how transportation was developed. I can completely see myself doing something with transportation planning and community development for these (and 10,000 other) reasons.

Anyway, I could ramble all day...I want to hear about your careers and education and experiences. Even if your professional backstory isn't directly related to roads, tell us anyway.

[Alex]

Check out the discussion in this earlier thread about working in your hobby too. 

[codyg1985]

I ended up getting an undergrad for Civil Engineering and specialized in Transportation. The job I have now has absolutely little to do with roads, but the civil engineering degree allows me to look at the design features of a road as well as the bigger picture of roads that I get from being a roadgeek.

I guess it depends on what you are more interested in: design or planning. I really would like to get more into urban planning, but with the career track I am on now that's almost not an option.

[hbelkins]

I have put my journalism degree to good use doing public relations for one of Kentucky's highway districts.   

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Before you decide upon grad school, have you attended any local zoning meetings? Have gone to any local planning presentations/meetings?
Do you have any internships or work studies available for you to apply for?
Don't expect gov't jobs are going to available in the immediate future either with government budgets (federal, state, and local) being squeezed.
Do locate and network with any private planning (and even engineering) firms in your area.

[Laura]

Before you decide upon grad school, have you attended any local zoning meetings? Have gone to any local planning presentations/meetings?
Do you have any internships or work studies available for you to apply for?
Don't expect gov't jobs are going to available in the immediate future either with government budgets (federal, state, and local) being squeezed.
Do locate and network with any private planning (and even engineering) firms in your area.

I'm so glad you asked. These are the exact things I plan on doing more of in 2011 (because the end of the year is the busiest, anyway.) I've been to hearings/presentations in the past and earlier this year got involved in a local community project regarding the widening of MD 24 (which was controversial because it goes through a state park.) I need to seriously figure out that this is what I truly want to do, and all of these things will help me make that decision. Good idea about networking and internships.

This is all rather exciting. I never realized that you were a journalist, HB, and that you majored in civil engineering, Cody!

Ha, I searched for hours trying to make sure I didn't repeat an existing thread...I sort of failed at that...

[hbelkins]

This is all rather exciting. I never realized that you were a journalist, HB, and that you majored in civil engineering, Cody!

Yep. Majored in journalism (minor in government) and then got my master's in communications. Spent 12 years in the community newspaper business in Kentucky, six years in PR for the state revenue and personnel agencies in Frankfort, two years back in the newspaper field, 18 months as director of a nonprofit community anti-drug coalition, and then six years in my present job.

A perfect blend of my education and skills with my interest.

[mapman]

Urban planning is probably the next big "it" job.  Here in California, our state laws and policies are pushing future development towards increased housing densities and mixing of uses (e.g. jobs near housing, shopping near housing, etc.), in an attempt to reduce vehicle emissions and minimize other environmental impacts of development.  Urban planning (and its cousin, land use planning) is a must on any large subdivision or shopping center.

I also agree that the private sector would be preferable to the public, at least when you'd be starting out in the industry.  Governments are "outsourcing" more and more to the private sector right now for this type of work.  I've also known people who moved between the private and public sectors (and back again).  Internships are a great way to get into the private sector, and are required by many majors prior to graduation (including Civil Engineering).

[Chris]

I work in a private traffic engineering firm, mostly on the consultancy side for governments. It is true governments tend to outsource more and more to private firms, especially with the workload of non-traffic engineering topics for government workers. Most of their time are now either meetings, or stuff like public consultancy, handling complaints and appeals against projects, so they have to pass a lot of their real work through to private consultancies.

[Quillz]

I mentioned in another topic that I called up the state's official reseller of various sign graphics and fonts curious to see what they had for sale, and they were audibly stunned to an individual would ever call. Apparently, they don't calls from too many roadgeeks.

They were even more stunned when I asked them "techie" questions, like if they sold Series B-F, if there were any sign gantry graphics available for sale, etc.