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Author Topic: Portland  (Read 51112 times)

Bickendan

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Re: Portland
« Reply #75 on: February 19, 2011, 01:48:18 AM »

Point one: There's a ghost ramp to I-5 south as the lanes shift onto the lower deck of the Marquam Bridge. The ramp was supposed to start at either SE Salmon, Main or Madison, hook over the freeway and merge. Either environmental NIMBY's or city disinterest kept it from being built. It should be, though.

Point two: I'm rather partial to the Ross Island Maze! (Yes, it needs to be drastically simplified. How, good question. I'll get back to you in Fictional Highways sometime.)

Point three: ODOT and less than clear signage? Shenanigans, I say!

Point four: I loathe. Loathe. the SW 6th Ave onramp. Part of the problem is a lovely 'Exit 35 mph' sign BEFORE the auxiliary lane splits for US 26, when it should be for the SW 12th Ave offramp. The other problem, as you mention, is the weaving. It's a very dangerous onramp when trying to get on I-405 north; it's just slow and annoying trying to get to SW 12th or onto US 26 proper.
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sp_redelectric

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Re: Portland
« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2011, 12:32:31 AM »

Yes, that's a very common arrangement with highways routed along surface streets in the Metro Area.  I know with reasonable certainty that OR-10 west of Murray Blvd, all the way to the terminus at OR-219 is under the control of the Washington County Department of Land Use and Transportation.  The county completely funded the widening projects between Murray and Kinnaman that occurred between the mid-1990s and now.  I believe the section between there and OR-217 is under City of Beaverton control. 

Almost:  there is a stretch of Oregon 10 (Farmington Road) between MP 5.88 and MP 7.61 (roughly S.W. 198th Avenue east to S.W. Kinnaman Road), and from MP 8.68 east to an unknown point near Beaverton City Limits, that remains under ODOT jurisdiction.

The western portion makes sense as it is un-upgraded and I'm sure Washington County wants to see it widened or at least otherwise upgraded to modern spec before it'll accept jurisdiction.  I don't get the eastern part since it's already upgraded.

I also am not sure on this, but at the far western end of Farmington Road at the intersection with Highway 219 for about one mile, it appears that as part of the recent intersection project that portion of road was built to ODOT spec including ODOT spec signage...not sure if it's simply because ODOT funded the work or if that last mile was turned back over to ODOT.

OR-210 (SW Scholls Ferry Road) is also almost entirely under Washington County control.  OR-8 in Forest Grove, between OR-47 and B Street (the old alignment of OR-47) is under City of Forest Grove control, and the section west of B Street out to OR-6 is under county control as well.

Exactly - the only portion of 210 still under ODOT control is the portion from the P&W Railroad, northeasterly over Highway 217 to the intersection with Hall Boulevard (Oregon 141) - specifically, between MP 9.03 to MP 9.61, so just over a half mile.  It still retains the ODOT route number of 143 for this tiny island.

Washington County paid for the Forest Grove bypass and then turned it over to the state; in exchange the old routing of Highway 47 in Forest Grove was turned over to the city.  This results in the unusual situation of being at the intersection of Pacific and Quince Avenues in Forest Grove - with Oregon 47 passing through north-south and Oregon 8 passing through west-east, but the Tualatin Valley Highway (Highway 29) runs south-east, and the Nehalem Highway (Highway 102) starts and proceeds north.  Not that many people travel north-south on Highway 47 through Forest Grove but for the motorist this has the unfortunate consequence of having a non-consecutive milepost while following "the same highway" - going from milepost 90 to milepost 18.

My understanding is that while Gales Creek Road has for a very long time carried Oregon 8, it never was an actual state highway...

One of the best ways to tell who controls what road is by looking at the fonts, size and text alignment on the "limitless" speed signs, believe it or not.  ODOT's speed signs have a distinctive style that the counties and cities generally don't use.

ODOT seems to have several different styles of speed signs but they are definitely unique and generally not found on non-ODOT roads, unless part of an ODOT funded project.  Washington County seems to have their own unique signs (in particular oversized numerals that are wider than the word "Speed", and older signs use a somewhat unique typeface for the numerals - in particular the '3's).  Another tip-off are the "Adopt-a-Road"/"Adopt-a-Highway" signs, mileposts (non-existent on most non-ODOT roads), and any guide sign.  Also, Washington County generally does not use warning signs larger than 24x24, while ODOT has no problem using a larger sign when needed, and until recently ODOT only used wood signposts while Washington County was the forerunner in using the square steel posts.  ODOT recently has started using the square posts, and even some steel breakaway posts on non-Interstate roads.
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xonhulu

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Re: Portland
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2011, 01:35:22 PM »

Washington County paid for the Forest Grove bypass and then turned it over to the state; in exchange the old routing of Highway 47 in Forest Grove was turned over to the city.  This results in the unusual situation of being at the intersection of Pacific and Quince Avenues in Forest Grove - with Oregon 47 passing through north-south and Oregon 8 passing through west-east, but the Tualatin Valley Highway (Highway 29) runs south-east, and the Nehalem Highway (Highway 102) starts and proceeds north.  Not that many people travel north-south on Highway 47 through Forest Grove but for the motorist this has the unfortunate consequence of having a non-consecutive milepost while following "the same highway" - going from milepost 90 to milepost 18.

I was unaware that it was the county that built the bypass.  Is that true for both the southern bypass (completed in 1974) and the northern bypass (completed in 2000)?

There are quite a few issues at the 8-47 intersection: besides the odd alignment of the highways, the signage is terrible and the 25 zone on 47 north is annoying.  Still, though, the newer alignment of 47 is a big improvement over the old route through downtown and past Pacific University.

I actually always travel through on 47, as that's the way I usually take to get from Salem to the Sunset Highway.  But I'm sure that you're right, most of the northbound 47 traffic turns east there.

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My understanding is that while Gales Creek Road has for a very long time carried Oregon 8, it never was an actual state highway...

Yeah, I looked at the Historic State Highways document on ODOT's website and it doesn't ever mention a state highway along Gales Creek Rd.  If you drive it, though, you won't see any OR 8 shields along the county-maintained portion.  There are 8 shields at the junction with OR 6, and some in the city of Forest Grove, but in between nothing.

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sp_redelectric

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Re: Portland
« Reply #78 on: June 25, 2011, 01:23:05 AM »

I was unaware that it was the county that built the bypass.  Is that true for both the southern bypass (completed in 1974) and the northern bypass (completed in 2000)?

I have no idea about the southern part of the bypass, too long ago - before my time.  But the northern bypass was a MSTIP project.  Washington County also managed the Tigard funded Highway 99W project the last couple of years...which was odd, since it involved two state highways (99W and 141, a.k.a. Hall Boulevard, and one city street, and no county jurisdiction roads.)
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drummer_evans_aki

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Re: Portland
« Reply #79 on: June 25, 2011, 04:20:37 PM »

I do agree that 217 needs to be improved. Some of the interchanges are not necessary as OR-8, OR-10, OR-210, and OR-99W can connect Allen Blvd and Denney Rd. So I'd keep the Walker Rd, OR-8/OR-10, Scholls Ferry Rd (OR-210), OR-99W, and 72nd Ave Exits, widen the entire highway to four lanes in each direction (one lane serving as Exit Only) and that could help alleviate the traffic problem on that road.

The problem on 26 would be the traffic from Murray Blvd to downtown Portland in the mornings and I think if you add another lane in each direction, that can help get traffic moving a little bit faster.

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warderjack

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Re: Portland
« Reply #80 on: July 12, 2011, 01:05:50 AM »


No kidding.  I've seen traffic routinely back up onto I-5 there from the SB exit ramp.  They haven't done anything to that interchange (except install Flashing Yellow Arrows) since they put in outlet mall there.

There was some seriously poor planning involved with the construction of those outlets. It should have been apparent what kind of generator of traffic that they would be and that an interchange meant for a rural highway wouldn't be up to to the task. Considering how successful the outlets are, I think they could have gotten some concessions from them on how to adapt the interchange to accommodate the extra traffic.
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sp_redelectric

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Re: Portland
« Reply #81 on: July 21, 2011, 01:27:46 AM »

There was some seriously poor planning involved with the construction of those outlets. It should have been apparent what kind of generator of traffic that they would be and that an interchange meant for a rural highway wouldn't be up to to the task. Considering how successful the outlets are, I think they could have gotten some concessions from them on how to adapt the interchange to accommodate the extra traffic.

I believe ODOT REALLY wants to fix that interchange...big mistake to not have done anything.  The money just isn't there...

http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/REGION2/Woodburn_Interchange.shtml

However, a few years ago Payless Drug Stores (whose former headquarters, and Rite-Aid's current distribution center, is located) actually paid to improve the Wilsonville Road interchange...and guess what?  It's being completely rebuilt AGAIN.  Why Wilsonville seems to be getting all of the money, while Woodburn suffers (even though Woodburn's interchange involves two different state highways)...
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