Is I-84 between I-5 and I-205 legally part of the Interstate Highway System?

[sp_redelectric]

A comment came up on a Facebook group that I am a member of, discussing the history of the Banfield Expressway (I-84).  One of the commenters discussed that because the Banfield did not meet federal construction standards, that I-80N would be assigned to the Mount Hood Freeway which of course was never built.  That led to the statement that the stretch of the Banfield from I-5 to I-205 is not legally an "Interstate Highway".

Does anyone know if there's any truth to this or not?  Looking at the federal interstate route log there is a notation of 6.89 miles of I-84 as "Section 103(c)(4)(A) and ISTEA miles", and that would be the approximate distance involved...

[TheStranger]

Without answering the question (given my lack of Portland knowledge), I CAN think of a similar situation: the odd status of I-80 along the Skyway, the former US 40/50 between US 101 and the Bay Bridge.  It was built as US 40/50 in the 1950s, signed as US 40/50 and I-80 from 1958 or so to 1964 (with the I-80 designation also applied to the Central Freeway to Fell Street with US 101, in anticipation of an I-80 extension to Golden Gate Park).

When the Western Freeway section to the park was canceled due to 1960s freeway revolts, the definition of Interstate 80 was amended to exclude that and the Central Freeway concurrency - but along with that, the Skyway suddenly no longer was part of the "interstate" (with the official Interstate beginning at what was then the 480 junction).  Signage has never changed to reflect this however.

[OCGuy81]

IIRC, aren't exits on the section of the Banfield sp_redelectric mentioned numbered sequentially, but then become milage based outside of 205?  Maybe that's got something to do with this legitimacy of the Banfield in the Interstate system?

[NE2]

The Banfield is certainly an Interstate now: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/nhs_maps/oregon/portland_or.pdf

But in 1969 it was dropped:

http://www.angelfire.com/or3/oroads/roads/mthood/email_060305.txt
According to the City of Portland Office of Transportation (http://www.trans.ci.portland.or.us/), the freeway was dropped from the Interstate highway system in 1976. Was the highway originally planned to be an Interstate highway, either for immediate or future inclusion? If so, was it given a route number (e.g. Interstate 705)?

   The I-80N designation of the Mt. Hood Freeway was approved by the Federal Highway Administration on January 22, 1969. The approved route began at the intersection with I-5 at the east end of the Marquam Bridge and progressed in an easterly direction to an intersection with I-205 near 96th. The 5.79 miles of the Banfield from the Marquam to 96th were withdrawn from the Interstate system and placed on the state system.

It must have been readded after the Mount Hood was cancelled in 1976. Section 103(c)(4)(A) says: "If the Secretary determines that a highway on the National Highway System meets all standards of a highway on the Interstate System and that the highway is a logical addition or connection to the Interstate System, the Secretary may, upon the affirmative recommendation of the State or States in which the highway is located, designate the highway as a route on the Interstate System." Normally this means it wasn't built with Interstate funding, but the reconstruction that included the light rail line was funded with money from the cancelled Mount Hood Freeway.

[xonhulu]

The Banfield is certainly an Interstate now: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/nhs_maps/oregon/portland_or.pdf

But in 1969 it was dropped:

http://www.angelfire.com/or3/oroads/roads/mthood/email_060305.txt
According to the City of Portland Office of Transportation (http://www.trans.ci.portland.or.us/), the freeway was dropped from the Interstate highway system in 1976. Was the highway originally planned to be an Interstate highway, either for immediate or future inclusion? If so, was it given a route number (e.g. Interstate 705)?

   The I-80N designation of the Mt. Hood Freeway was approved by the Federal Highway Administration on January 22, 1969. The approved route began at the intersection with I-5 at the east end of the Marquam Bridge and progressed in an easterly direction to an intersection with I-205 near 96th. The 5.79 miles of the Banfield from the Marquam to 96th were withdrawn from the Interstate system and placed on the state system.

It must have been readded after the Mount Hood was cancelled in 1976. Section 103(c)(4)(A) says: "If the Secretary determines that a highway on the National Highway System meets all standards of a highway on the Interstate System and that the highway is a logical addition or connection to the Interstate System, the Secretary may, upon the affirmative recommendation of the State or States in which the highway is located, designate the highway as a route on the Interstate System." Normally this means it wasn't built with Interstate funding, but the reconstruction that included the light rail line was funded with money from the cancelled Mount Hood Freeway.

ODOT did do an extensive reconstruction of that section of the Banfield after the Freeway Revolt killed the Mt Hood Freeway.  I want to say it was in the  early 1980's, and I want to say it was in conjunction with building the first light rail line between downtown and Gresham, but I'm not 100% sure on either, and I can't find any corroborating or conflicting info in a quick search online.  ODOT put a history of Oregon interstates up to mark the system's 50th anniversary, and there's still a link for it on their site, but I just get a "File not found" message when I try to access it.

The freeway was expanded to six-lanes then, but many of the original overpasses and ramps are still in place, and it's still a little dicey on whether or not there's an adequate breakdown lane in places, but it's possible that work was enough to bring it up to minimum interstate standards.

Anyway, had the Mt Hood Freeway been built and the then-I-80N moved onto it, the Banfield would've just reverted to being US 30 alone, as I understand the matter.

I thought I heard somewhere long ago that there was an Interstate "gap" in the Portland area, but it was the Interstate Bridge on I-5, which is a drawbridge and therefore not interstate standard.  I'm not sure I really believe this, though.

[sp_redelectric]

Thanks all!!!  Very interesting reading here.

[NE2]

ODOT put a history of Oregon interstates up to mark the system's 50th anniversary, and there's still a link for it on their site, but I just get a "File not found" message when I try to access it.

http://docs.lcog.org/meetings/mpc/022006/MPC4.g.1.ii_Oregon_Interstate_Background.pdf
It doesn't say much about the Banfield/Mount Hood.

[xonhulu]

http://docs.lcog.org/meetings/mpc/022006/MPC4.g.1.ii_Oregon_Interstate_Background.pdf
It doesn't say much about the Banfield/Mount Hood.

Thanks for finding that, but you're right, they pretty much drop the subject of the Banfield after it was initially built.

I'll just have to go on memory here.  The Gresham light rail line was built between 1982-1986, which happens to exactly coincide with the years I was attending college in Walla Walla, so I drove through Portland on my way to/from numerous time while they were building it.  I'm pretty sure that the Banfield was mostly 4-lanes before that, but got widenened to 6-lanes as part of that project.  Whether or not that had anything to do with restoring it to the Interstate system, though, I can't tell you.  It's probably more likely they just put it back on the system after the Mt Hood was finally cancelled in the 70's.

[sp_redelectric]

It doesn't say much about the Banfield/Mount Hood.

Page 6:  The Banfield Expressway ends at Interstate 205, and as I-84 continues east, it becomes the
start of the Columbia River Highway No. 2, also known as Oregon Highway 2. Historically
OSHD referred to this section of the interstate as "Troutdale to The Dalles,"  though it
logically included the freeway beginning east of I-205.

Page 10:  OSHD, in coordination with the City of Portland, largely accepted the new I-80N route
known as Division-Powell and moved forward to seek approval for the Mt. Hood Freeway
project in 1968. As a part of the proposal to the federal government, Oregon requested that
the Banfield be withdrawn and replaced with the new route.

However, there is no mention of re-adding the Banfield Expressway back to the Interstate highway system or any of the improvements made as part of the Banfield Light Rail project.

[Henry]

I'm thinking that up until the cancellation of the Mt. Hood Freeway, the Banfield Expressway was intended to be a temporary alignment of I-80N (today's I-84). Therefore, had the Mt. Hood been built, the Banfield would still be substandard, similar to the Sunset Highway further west.

[JasonOfORoads]

I'll just have to go on memory here.  The Gresham light rail line was built between 1982-1986, which happens to exactly coincide with the years I was attending college in Walla Walla, so I drove through Portland on my way to/from numerous time while they were building it.  I'm pretty sure that the Banfield was mostly 4-lanes before that, but got widenened to 6-lanes as part of that project.  Whether or not that had anything to do with restoring it to the Interstate system, though, I can't tell you.  It's probably more likely they just put it back on the system after the Mt Hood was finally cancelled in the 70's.

I was between negative-2 and 2 during those years, so when I say "IIRC" in here, I mean that I'm referring to maps and data, not first-hand experiences.  Since you were alive back then and travelling along the Banfield, I defer to your expertise.

IIRC, when they added MAX and widened the Banfield, they also took out an exit or two westbound.  It was always a little strange to me that there were so many exits heading from Portland, but very few heading back in.  According to my 1977 official Oregon map, Exit 5 used to be a full interchange, or at least it had an offramp westbound.  If Oregon's previous exit numbering scheme held true back then, the entire interchange was Exit 5A regardless of direction, as it was marked on the map.  Exit 5B I believe was to Halsey, EB off/WB on (current Exit 7 EB off only), and Exit 6 was for Parkrose/Maywood Park (current Exit 9 EB off only).

Also from that same map, there existed Exits 1A-D westbound.  Present-day Exit 1 EB was known as Exit 2A, but Exit 1 WB for Lloyd Center was labelled Exit 1D, that much is certain.  However, given the imperfection of the map and my lack of a more detailed map with exit numbers from that time period for Portland, Exits 1A-C seem to be a bit of a clusterf--k around the Banfield/I-5 interchange.  Here's what I'm thinking:

• Since Oregon is adverse to assigning exit numbers to freeway termini (Interstate 105 seems to be the only exception, though it's likely because the freeway doesn't end there), I would imagine that neither ramp to I-5 was given a number.
• I would also imagine that, even though US-30 runs N along I-5 until the junction with I-405, that the "mainline" Banfield would have been considered to head along the I-5 SB ramp.
• I know that there was a ramp from the I-5 NB ramp that connected to Lloyd Blvd. near the Convention Center (the ghost ramp and old sign gantry are hard to miss).  Not sure when it was taken out, thinking late '80s.  I think that that would have been labelled Exit 1C.
• The current Convention Center ramp form the I-5 NB ramp to Holladay St. would have been Exit 1B.
• The sole ramp along the I-5 SB ramp to the Morrison Bridge/OR-99E would have been Exit 1A.

Am I off-base on these?  The only other alternate I can think of would be to consider the I-5 SB ramp as a left Exit 1C, with Lloyd Blvd. as Exit 1B and Holladay as Exit 1A, but even though the numbers would follow US-30, it just doesn't seem right.

[NE2]

If it helps, here's a (somewhat low-resolution) 1975 aerial: http://ims.er.usgs.gov/gda_services/download?item_id=5420932&quad=Portland&state=OR&grid=7.5X7.5&series=Map%20GeoPDF

[JasonOfORoads]

If it helps, here's a (somewhat low-resolution) 1975 aerial: http://ims.er.usgs.gov/gda_services/download?item_id=5420932&quad=Portland&state=OR&grid=7.5X7.5&series=Map%20GeoPDF

Thanks, it does

So here are my theories on exit numbers at the I-5/I-80N/US-30 junction in 1975, around the time that Oregon adopted exit numbers.

Theory #1:


Theory #2:


Theory #3:
Some other messed up ODOT numbering, as possibly evidenced by the official 1977 Oregon highway map:

[Alps]

Fail to see how that's messed up. A and B are for SB and NB I-5, and C and D are for the next two ramps to surface streets.

[JasonOfORoads]

A and B are for SB and NB I-5, and C and D are for the next two ramps to surface streets.

So it was more like this?



If so, I think it's the only time when a terminating freeway in Oregon had exit numbers assigned to the ramps to the intersecting highway.

[Alps]

If so, I think it's the only time when a terminating freeway in Oregon had exit numbers assigned to the ramps to the intersecting highway.

Interesting. That's a state-by-state thing there. Missouri assigns exit numbers to everything, while NJ is completely haphazard (I-280 has none, I-80 eastern end is half-done, I-195 western end is given the crossing route's exit numbers...)

[Henry]

If it helps, here's a (somewhat low-resolution) 1975 aerial: http://ims.er.usgs.gov/gda_services/download?item_id=5420932&quad=Portland&state=OR&grid=7.5X7.5&series=Map%20GeoPDF

Thanks, it does

So here are my theories on exit numbers at the I-5/I-80N/US-30 junction in 1975, around the time that Oregon adopted exit numbers.

Theory #1:


Theory #2:


Theory #3:
Some other messed up ODOT numbering, as possibly evidenced by the official 1977 Oregon highway map:

Wow! Interesting theories there. Especially the final example.

Fail to see how that's messed up. A and B are for SB and NB I-5, and C and D are for the next two ramps to surface streets.

Exactly. And besides, many other freeways have suffixed letters other than A and B assigned to their exit numbers. Of course, the Alphabet Loop in Kansas City is the prime example of that.

[Bickendan]

If it helps, ODOT considers the Banfield Mainline to be along US 30 through I-84's interchange with I-5, not along the ramps heading toward City Center (I-5/Morrison Bridge).
It's hard to make out, but if you zoom in, you can see it on this ODOT pdf: http://www.oregon.gov//ODOT/TD/TDATA/rics/docs/NumRouteMap_enl.pdf

[xonhulu]

If it helps, ODOT considers the Banfield Mainline to be along US 30 through I-84's interchange with I-5, not along the ramps heading toward City Center (I-5/Morrison Bridge).
It's hard to make out, but if you zoom in, you can see it on this ODOT pdf: http://www.oregon.gov//ODOT/TD/TDATA/rics/docs/NumRouteMap_enl.pdf

It's odd that they're that specific on that map.  Doesn't ODOT have maintenance responsibilities for all the ramps?  But they only pictured those carrying US 30, despite the fact that the longest ramp is that from NB I-5 to EB I-84.

 

[JasonOfORoads]

If it helps, ODOT considers the Banfield Mainline to be along US 30 through I-84's interchange with I-5, not along the ramps heading toward City Center (I-5/Morrison Bridge).
It's hard to make out, but if you zoom in, you can see it on this ODOT pdf: http://www.oregon.gov//ODOT/TD/TDATA/rics/docs/NumRouteMap_enl.pdf

It's odd that they're that specific on that map.  Doesn't ODOT have maintenance responsibilities for all the ramps?  But they only pictured those carrying US 30, despite the fact that the longest ramp is that from NB I-5 to EB I-84.

ODOT does, but they're all designated as connections.  For example, the ramp from I-84 West to I-5 South is connector #002AB, the ramp from that ramp to the Morrison Bridge is #002AC, and the ramp to Holladay St. is #002AF.  The long ramp form Exit 300 connecting from I-5 North to I-84 East is #001UY.  However, the mainline Columbia River Highway #2 starts at Exit 301 on I-5 South.  The straightline chart for Hwy #2 confirm this.