We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments. What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard? One that comes to mind is i-287 in NYC.
I-475 in Flint, Michigan. It's loaded with potholes throughout the entire stretch pretty much and has several S-curves.
I-5 in downtown Seattle has an awful design and left exits. I could go for the lay-up with I-70 in Breezewood...might as well say it before it gets too obvious of a pick.
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments. What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard? One that comes to mind is i-287 in NYC.
Did you mean I-278 instead?
I-180 in Wyoming.
/thread :P
Quote from: amroad17 on August 11, 2017, 12:40:12 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments. What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard? One that comes to mind is i-287 in NYC.
Did you mean I-278 instead?
yes my mistake
I-70 in most of MO. Every time it rains in some segments, there is ponding on the roadway.
Quote from: CapeCodder on August 11, 2017, 09:18:39 AM
I-70 in most of MO. Every time it rains in some segments, there is ponding on the roadway.
That's just a poor design, not a substandard Interstate (and honestly, doesn't every road start ponding water if it rains enough?)
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2017, 12:34:54 AM
I-5 in downtown Seattle has an awful design and left exits. I could go for the lay-up with I-70 in Breezewood...might as well say it before it gets too obvious of a pick.
So for the first example, you could say that I-90/I-94 north of the Loop is similar, thanks to the rapid-fire section. As for the second one, I-78 in Jersey City also falls under that category, as it goes through five traffic signals between the end of the Turnpike branch and the Holland Tunnel.
As for a substandard Interstate pick of my own, I'll say I-83 in Baltimore. Lots of twists and turns, low speed limit (50), and only six lanes wide.
Another is the curve where I-75 interchanges with itself in Detroit. South of Detroit, I-75 is known as the Fisher Freeway into downtown, on the NE corner of downtown it has a left exit for Gratiot Avenue and a right exit for I-375 and I-75. After this interchange I-75 changes from the Fisher Freeway to the Chrysler Freeway, this is all coming northbound. Coming southbound, it continues as the same freeway but switches from I-75 to I-375 with no freeway change at all, I-75 exits to the right with the Gratiot exit being on the left and merges into the Fisher Freeway part of I-75.
I think I-70 in Pennsylvania between the West Virginia border and Washington is pretty infamous for its abhorrent roadway quality.
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 11, 2017, 10:12:57 AM
I think I-70 in Pennsylvania between the West Virginia border and Washington is pretty infamous for its abhorrent roadway quality.
That part of I-70 is fine. It's Washington, PA to New Stanton that has issues.
I-95 in most of North Carolina is awful - it needs to be widened and the interchange geometrics are often properly classified as badly out-dated.
Eligible for the PennDOT Hall of Shame:
Most of I-83 in Pennsylvania deserves to join I-70 from Washington (Pa.) to New Stanton.
I-70 from Breezewood to the Maryland border.
I-76 (Schuylkill Expressway) from Valley Forge to the Walt Whitman Bridge over the Delaware River.
Much of I-78 from I-81 to the beginning of DRJTBC jurisdiction near Easton.
The eastern I-76 as a whole. Starts with one of the weirdest interchanges ever, snakes through the business end of 2 successive trumpets, and encounters another weird POS getting onto the Ohio Turnpike at I-80. And that's just Ohio! On the PA Tpk., there's one of the narrowest medians in the whole system on the Pike; adding insult to injury is the reverse trumpet getting off the pike onto -- yes, ladies and germs, the Surekill! One of PA's many "poster children" for Interstate substandard features, it combines narrow carriageways with a winding alignment and shorter-than-thou ramps. After negotiating Philly and getting over the Delaware River, you hang a right and come upon a construction zone -- after which there's a long 6-lane rural straightaway that seems like the best part of the route -- but wait, I-76 ended back at that construction area, and you're on the ACE heading for Monopoly Town! One less-than-optimal feature right after another spread out over three states; I'd classify that as substandard!
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 11, 2017, 11:32:46 AM
Much of I-78 from I-81 to the beginning of DRJTBC jurisdiction near Easton.
78 isn't really that bad. Most of it is pretty straight, with full inner shoulders even (a consequence of the original US 22 surface expressway having been built with a narrow grass median). Aside from ramp merge/exit lanes being a bit short, it's really only substandard in short bits:
- The Grimes exit (Exit 15)
- Through PA 61 and across the Schuylkill River at Hamburg (no inner shoulder and few ramp merge/exit lanes at all).
- Near Lenhartsville the inner shoulder briefly disappears for some reason, and the exit for the town itself is tight and substandard.
- At Smithville there's a small S-turn with no inner shoulder.
Not to mention that around Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, it's a nice, modern bypass built in the late 80s. Fix those four things and really the entire thing west of Allentown could safely handle a 70 mph speed limit, maybe even 75.
I-83 and I-70 really are bad, though. I didn't realize just how substandard 70 south of Breezewood was until taking a look at it on the map.
Any interstate within the borders of NYC, I-895 being the absolute worst
I-395 in Maryland
I-91 between CT 3 and CT 15
Quote from: Roadsguy on August 11, 2017, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 11, 2017, 11:32:46 AM
Much of I-78 from I-81 to the beginning of DRJTBC jurisdiction near Easton.
78 isn't really that bad. Most of it is pretty straight, with full inner shoulders even (a consequence of the original US 22 surface expressway having been built with a narrow grass median). Aside from ramp merge/exit lanes being a bit short, it's really only substandard in short bits:
- The Grimes exit (Exit 15)
- Through PA 61 and across the Schuylkill River at Hamburg (no inner shoulder and few ramp merge/exit lanes at all).
- Near Lenhartsville the inner shoulder briefly disappears for some reason, and the exit for the town itself is tight and substandard.
- At Smithville there's a small S-turn with no inner shoulder.
Not to mention that around Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, it's a nice, modern bypass built in the late 80s. Fix those four things and really the entire thing west of Allentown could safely handle a 70 mph speed limit, maybe even 75.
I-83 and I-70 really are bad, though. I didn't realize just how substandard 70 south of Breezewood was until taking a look at it on the map.
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood? While it is a rather early Interstate-era design, it has a decent width grass median, independent roadways where it passes over a mountain, some curves that are less than 70 mph design but still negotiable at 60 mph, decently rehabbed pavement and bridges. The only significant negative is narrow clear roadsides of about 10 to 15 feet, but the shoulders are full width and are well maintained and the guardrail is well maintained, and storm sewer drainage has been installed in places where fill slopes are only 10 to 12 feet from the pavement. The speed limit could be more like 60 or 65, but the 55 limit is not the fault of the highway.
In sum it has some substandard features, but is a well maintained and well rehabbed highway.
I would agree that I-78 is reasonably ok overall. The section with the narrow 20 foot grass median was upgraded and now has a concrete median barrier and what look like 9 foot paved shoulders. Storm sewer drainage has been installed in places where fill slopes are only 10 to 12 feet from the pavement. As mentioned the ABE bypass is a modern Interstate highway.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 11, 2017, 11:32:46 AM
I-95 in most of North Carolina is awful - it needs to be widened and the interchange geometrics are often properly classified as badly out-dated.
Eligible for the PennDOT Hall of Shame:
Most of I-83 in Pennsylvania deserves to join I-70 from Washington (Pa.) to New Stanton.
I-70 from Breezewood to the Maryland border.
I-76 (Schuylkill Expressway) from Valley Forge to the Walt Whitman Bridge over the Delaware River.
Much of I-78 from I-81 to the beginning of DRJTBC jurisdiction near Easton.
I think you just summed up the majorly substandard interstates right there, with PennDOT responsible for most of them.
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood?
Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.
I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state. US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)
But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 11, 2017, 11:32:46 AM
I-95 in most of North Carolina is awful - it needs to be widened and the interchange geometrics are often properly classified as badly out-dated.
Really it needs to be six lanes, amazing how much it really clears up in South Carolina.
If you are including Interstates as a whole, from coast-to-coast, then my vote would be for I-70. East to west you have:
- The Breezewood missing link.
- The Western PA segment with substandard interchanges.
- The Downtown Kansas City Segment (rerouting onto I-470 would quickly eliminate this issue).
- The Eastern Denver Viaduct to I-270 segment (although work is starting shortly)
- And various segments of I-70 in Western Colorado with no left shoulders, and limited right shoulders due to lack of ROW in the mountains & canyons.
...just to name a few areas.
I say I-66, it is a tight, narrow, and awfully congested mess. Along with it's inefficient interchanges and tight curves.
I-95 in Connecticut, especially between New Haven and New London. Most of this section is still only 2 lanes in each direction as it was when it was originally built as the Connecticut Turnpike. Most of this section predates the interstate highway system and was not built to the same specifications (very narrow, short exits and on-ramps) and is way undersized for the amount of traffic in this corridor. Summer traffic in Connecticut is always hell on this interstate.
I agree with I-278. It and the Schuylkill are probably, if not the worst, at least in the top 5 out of all the interstates that don't have traffic lights (I-180, Breezewood).
"Honorable" mention for I-99 (PA segment), which won't intersect with another interstate for a very long time, if ever.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 10, 2017, 10:48:01 PM
I-475 in Flint, Michigan. It's loaded with potholes throughout the entire stretch pretty much and has several S-curves.
The curves don't look that bad on street view, and potholes are a maintenance issue, not a substandard design (or are you insinuating that the potholes were placed there by MDOT before the road even opened?). Strikes me as a typical interstate with old concrete.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood?
Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.
I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state. US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)
But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.
Also curbs on some of the shoulders. Yes, curbs.
Quote
The curves don't look that bad on street view, and potholes are a maintenance issue, not a substandard design (or are you insinuating that the potholes were placed there by MDOT before the road even opened?). Strikes me as a typical interstate with old concrete.
The two curves near the I-69 interchange are pretty sharp curves. The whole thing gets pretty bad when it rains out too. The pothole problem is basically a Michigan problem but the roads as a whole in Genesee County are in poor shape.
They're not the straightest, but they don't strike me as being out of line. Not even advisory speed or curve warning signs.
Plenty of similar curves on your typical upstate NY suburban interstate (though we would post 55 for that section of road instead of 70). As far as I can tell, they're dime a dozen.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 11, 2017, 01:07:37 PM
Any interstate within the borders of NYC, I-895 being the absolute worst
What's wrong with I-895?
Certainly not "most" substandard by any means, but:
I-10 at Mile Marker 289 in Arizona prior to 2013 had narrow lanes, a tiny median and an interchange with nonexistent acceleration and deceleration lanes. It has since been upgraded.
I'm not a huge fan of the East Motel Drive interchange of Lordsburg, New Mexico in its current state. There's lots of cracked and buckled concrete, along with very little room to merge.
Quote from: vdeane on August 11, 2017, 05:28:30 PM
I agree with I-278. It and the Schuylkill are probably, if not the worst, at least in the top 5 out of all the interstates that don't have traffic lights (I-180, Breezewood).
"Honorable" mention for I-99 (PA segment), which won't intersect with another interstate for a very long time, if ever.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 10, 2017, 10:48:01 PM
I-475 in Flint, Michigan. It's loaded with potholes throughout the entire stretch pretty much and has several S-curves.
The curves don't look that bad on street view, and potholes are a maintenance issue, not a substandard design (or are you insinuating that the potholes were placed there by MDOT before the road even opened?). Strikes me as a typical interstate with old concrete.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood?
Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.
I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state. US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)
But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.
Also curbs on some of the shoulders. Yes, curbs.
Isn't there a church on the PA Turnpike that has steps that lead down to the road? I really hope no one goes down those steps.
Quote from: CapeCodder on August 11, 2017, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 11, 2017, 05:28:30 PM
I agree with I-278. It and the Schuylkill are probably, if not the worst, at least in the top 5 out of all the interstates that don't have traffic lights (I-180, Breezewood).
"Honorable" mention for I-99 (PA segment), which won't intersect with another interstate for a very long time, if ever.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 10, 2017, 10:48:01 PM
I-475 in Flint, Michigan. It's loaded with potholes throughout the entire stretch pretty much and has several S-curves.
The curves don't look that bad on street view, and potholes are a maintenance issue, not a substandard design (or are you insinuating that the potholes were placed there by MDOT before the road even opened?). Strikes me as a typical interstate with old concrete.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood?
Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.
I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state. US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)
But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.
Also curbs on some of the shoulders. Yes, curbs.
Isn't there a church on the PA Turnpike that has steps that lead down to the road? I really hope no one goes down those steps.
St.John The Baptist in New Baltimore. It's in the middle of a 35 mile stretch with no exits.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood?
Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.
But they seem to have ample accel-decel lane length to handle the speed transition. I don't mind a 15 or 20mph ramp curve as long as it has a long enough accel-decel lane length to comfortably handle the speed transition.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state. US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)
Some of them appear to have been modified to provide more clearance. This is an issue with many of the older (pre-1965) Interstate highways in the country, less than the later standard of 16 feet vertical clearance.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.
Agreed, I won't defend that stretch, the 4-foot-wide median, the many substandard interchanges, and with traffic volumes that really warrant 6 lanes.
I think the worst part of I-70 between Washington and New Stanton is the narrow median. The yellow strip is there but within a foot of the median wall.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood?
Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.
I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state. US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)
But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.
I-70 south (east) of Breezewood:
(1) Traffic signal at Breezewood itself;
(2) This (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Breezewood,+PA/@39.9489721,-78.23452,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89ca34f8dfb7603d:0xfc801d508a5f4c68!8m2!3d39.9991865!4d-78.2388071) interchange at PA-915;
(3) This (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Breezewood,+PA/@39.8869233,-78.2450248,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89ca34f8dfb7603d:0xfc801d508a5f4c68!8m2!3d39.9991865!4d-78.2388071) at PA-643;
(4) Posted speed limit of 55 MPH along this entire section of I-70, with plenty of predatory enforcement by the PSP (reminds me of I-295 through Hopewell, Va.).
Quote from: Roadsguy on August 11, 2017, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 11, 2017, 11:32:46 AM
Much of I-78 from I-81 to the beginning of DRJTBC jurisdiction near Easton.
78 isn't really that bad. Most of it is pretty straight, with full inner shoulders even (a consequence of the original US 22 surface expressway having been built with a narrow grass median). Aside from ramp merge/exit lanes being a bit short, it's really only substandard in short bits:
- The Grimes exit (Exit 15)
- Through PA 61 and across the Schuylkill River at Hamburg (no inner shoulder and few ramp merge/exit lanes at all).
- Near Lenhartsville the inner shoulder briefly disappears for some reason, and the exit for the town itself is tight and substandard.
- At Smithville there's a small S-turn with no inner shoulder.
Not to mention that around Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, it's a nice, modern bypass built in the late 80s. Fix those four things and really the entire thing west of Allentown could safely handle a 70 mph speed limit, maybe even 75.
The pavement on I-78 from Exit 51 (U.S. 22) to the end of PennDOT maintenance at Exit 75 is frequently terrible, even though the design is clearly better than (for example) I-83 in Pennsylvania;
Truck crashes seem to be frequent (there's even one captured on Google here (https://www.google.com/maps/place/40%C2%B033'29.9%22N+75%C2%B025'25.7%22W/@40.558307,-75.4259847,477m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d40.558307!4d-75.423796) on the westbound side); and
On the eastbound side, a left-hand lane drop (https://www.google.com/maps/place/40%C2%B033'28.8%22N+75%C2%B025'25.5%22W/@40.558009,-75.4242922,119m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d40.558009!4d-75.423745) just after a fairly sharp curve east of Exit 60 (PA-309/PA-145) near the site of the truck crash above.
Quote from: Bitmapped on August 11, 2017, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 11, 2017, 10:12:57 AM
I think I-70 in Pennsylvania between the West Virginia border and Washington is pretty infamous for its abhorrent roadway quality.
That part of I-70 is fine. It's Washington, PA to New Stanton that has issues.
Come to think of it, that was the part I was thinking of. I suppose I geographically misplaced it.
It was mentioned above, but apparently it needs repeating since the thread continues....
I-180 in Wyoming.
It isn't even a freeway.
https://goo.gl/maps/YG5ad8kBNzT2
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments. What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard?
Reading comprehension is obviously not a thing on this forum, as I've seen plenty of responses similar to "I-9999 between Turkey Trot and Bean Blossom."
In my experience, I'd have to say I-83.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2017, 09:12:24 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments. What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard?
Reading comprehension is obviously not a thing on this forum, as I've seen plenty of responses similar to "I-9999 between Turkey Trot and Bean Blossom."
In my experience, I'd have to say I-83.
"I-278 in NYC" is not the whole thing, either, and that's in the OP, after correcting 287 to 278 (as confirmed in reply #5).
Also, I-180 should have been the end of the thread.
It makes no sense for I-180 in Wyoming to be numbered as such. It's already Business I-25, US 85 and Business US 87. How this highway got federal funding for an Interstate is a mystery.
Quote from: Bitmapped on August 11, 2017, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 11, 2017, 10:12:57 AM
I think I-70 in Pennsylvania between the West Virginia border and Washington is pretty infamous for its abhorrent roadway quality.
That part of I-70 is fine. It's Washington, PA to New Stanton that has issues.
Like at one time there were no merge areas on that stretch. One notably in Bentleville where I had to wait five minutes to get on the interstate there.
I-68 in Cumberland and I-78 between Hamburg and Fogelsville in PA as that is still 55 mph (or was at least) because of its old US 22 expressway grading that never got modernized.
Quote from: 1 on August 12, 2017, 09:15:05 PM
"I-278 in NYC" is not the whole thing, either, and that's in the OP, after correcting 287 to 278 (as confirmed in reply #5).
While I-278 does live NYC in terms of hard city boundaries, it is in the NYC metro for its entire length. Plus enough of it is substandard that is is still very high in the ranking.
I would say Maryland's I-895
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 11, 2017, 07:18:01 PM
Quote from: CapeCodder on August 11, 2017, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 11, 2017, 05:28:30 PM
I agree with I-278. It and the Schuylkill are probably, if not the worst, at least in the top 5 out of all the interstates that don't have traffic lights (I-180, Breezewood).
"Honorable" mention for I-99 (PA segment), which won't intersect with another interstate for a very long time, if ever.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 10, 2017, 10:48:01 PM
I-475 in Flint, Michigan. It's loaded with potholes throughout the entire stretch pretty much and has several S-curves.
The curves don't look that bad on street view, and potholes are a maintenance issue, not a substandard design (or are you insinuating that the potholes were placed there by MDOT before the road even opened?). Strikes me as a typical interstate with old concrete.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood?
Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.
I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state. US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)
But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.
Also curbs on some of the shoulders. Yes, curbs.
Isn't there a church on the PA Turnpike that has steps that lead down to the road? I really hope no one goes down those steps.
St.John The Baptist in New Baltimore. It's in the middle of a 35 mile stretch with no exits.
well, if this is the artifact - https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9846116,-78.7752909,3a,60y,5.85h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sf_wBZoHnvREy3qqk0hDawg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 - it seems to be within right of way, behind fence and between gated service road and highway itself....
Quote from: plain on August 13, 2017, 07:47:47 PM
I would say Maryland's I-895
Pre-Interstate design (rather similar in vintage to the Richmond Petersburg Turnpike, except that Maryland will
always be charging a toll for using most of this road). For many years up to the late 1970's or early 1980's it had no signed route number or was posted TO I-95.
The Canton Viaduct (about a one mile segment of the freeway north of the north tunnel portal over the railroad and under I-95) is going to be entirely replaced (the contract is advertised for bids now), and you can read more about it in the I-895/BHT (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=13902.0) thread.
I-55 through the Memphis metro area.
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on August 14, 2017, 12:02:12 AM
I-55 through the Memphis metro area.
sigh...
Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2017, 09:12:24 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments. What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard?
Reading comprehension is obviously not a thing on this forum, as I've seen plenty of responses similar to "I-9999 between Turkey Trot and Bean Blossom."
Quote from: hbelkins on August 14, 2017, 09:14:36 AM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on August 14, 2017, 12:02:12 AM
I-55 through the Memphis metro area.
sigh...
Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2017, 09:12:24 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments. What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard?
Reading comprehension is obviously not a thing on this forum, as I've seen plenty of responses similar to "I-9999 between Turkey Trot and Bean Blossom."
Oh, you want whole Interstates?
I-255.
I-676 is pretty substandard if the PA and NJ sections are considered one interstate. The section around Franklin Square uses surface streets.
As far as two-digit Interstates go, I also vote I-83. Unfortunately my home state of Pennsylvania is an embarrassment here, and I-83 inside the Baltimore Beltway is also not great.
Nexus 6P
Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2017, 09:12:24 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments. What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard?
Reading comprehension is obviously not a thing on this forum, as I've seen plenty of responses similar to "I-9999 between Turkey Trot and Bean Blossom."
In my experience, I'd have to say I-83.
Then I nominate I-19. Due to metric signage which is very unamerican and therefore substandard.
I-76.
Quote from: roadiejay on August 19, 2017, 08:01:41 PM
Then I nominate I-19. Due to metric signage which is most American and therefore substandard much better.
Fixed that for you. :bigass:
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on August 19, 2017, 08:38:35 PM
Quote from: roadiejay on August 19, 2017, 08:01:41 PM
Then I nominate I-19. Due to metric signage which is most American and therefore substandard much better.
Fixed that for you. :bigass:
I like it!! When i was in elementary schoolin the late 1970s we were learning metric to switch by 1980... Around the same time as Canada..
Metric makes more sense to me... But 35 degrees doesn't sound hot to me..
I can never remember how many ounces are in a quart? or a pint? or which is bigger teaspoon or tablespoon?
LGMS428
Quote from: sbeaver44 on August 19, 2017, 07:53:10 PM
I-676 is pretty substandard if the PA and NJ sections are considered one interstate. The section around Franklin Square uses surface streets.
As far as two-digit Interstates go, I also vote I-83. Unfortunately my home state of Pennsylvania is an embarrassment here, and I-83 inside the Baltimore Beltway Baltimore City Limits is also not great.
Nexus 6P
FTFY.
Aside from the short multiplex with I-695 (not great), I-83 in Baltimore County, Maryland is fine (and lots better than I-83 north of the state line).
To its credit, Georgia really has no candidates here that I can think of. The shoulders on I-516 are kinda narrow, I guess?
Quote from: roadiejay on August 19, 2017, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2017, 09:12:24 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments. What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard?
Reading comprehension is obviously not a thing on this forum, as I've seen plenty of responses similar to "I-9999 between Turkey Trot and Bean Blossom."
In my experience, I'd have to say I-83.
Then I nominate I-19. Due to metric signage which is very unamerican and therefore substandard.
Must have really low speed limits then! :bigass:
I know I-180 has already been mentioned, but what about the Alaska and Puerto Rico Interstates?
No mention of I-5 in Portland, OR??? Terrible stretch of freeway.
I-190 in IL, very tight. Some of the interchange merges need to be redone but space is a major issue with any improvement
Quote from: OCGuy81 on August 20, 2017, 01:18:48 PM
No mention of I-5 in Portland, OR??? Terrible stretch of freeway.
Because we're talking about the entire route, not specific stretches.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 12, 2017, 12:06:11 AM(3) This (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Breezewood,+PA/@39.8869233,-78.2450248,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89ca34f8dfb7603d:0xfc801d508a5f4c68!8m2!3d39.9991865!4d-78.2388071) at PA-643;
Wow, that's a classic. Westbound, the offramp has this crazy-long decel lane, but the merger lane is all but nonexistent, apparently because they didn't want to make the PA 643 bridge a laneswidth longer. That's bad, but what's worse is that the original 1962 bridge was replaced in 2010 and
still isn't long enough! :rolleyes:
Quote from: Tom958 on September 07, 2017, 08:54:25 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 12, 2017, 12:06:11 AM(3) This (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Breezewood,+PA/@39.8869233,-78.2450248,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89ca34f8dfb7603d:0xfc801d508a5f4c68!8m2!3d39.9991865!4d-78.2388071) at PA-643;
Wow, that's a classic. Westbound, the offramp has this crazy-long decel lane, but the merger lane is all but nonexistent, apparently because they didn't want to make the PA 643 bridge a laneswidth longer. That's bad, but what's worse is that the original 1962 bridge was replaced in 2010 and still isn't long enough! :rolleyes:
Looks like they could have had the WB on ramp coming off of Bark Road there.
I agree with I-180 in Wyoming. I mean, really... It's got traffic lights. Debate over...
I-93 through the notch.
Quote from: ParrDa on September 08, 2017, 11:38:57 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on September 08, 2017, 11:28:16 PM
I-93 through the notch.
The notch does not encompass ALL of I93, does it?
Also, you've made 7 posts in the last 10 minutes :-o
I have not posted in six days. Half the posts were welcoming new members.
I-780 mainly its a carryover when Solano County had a smaller population and the exit and entrance ramps are outdated plus it resembles CA-160 the Freeway section in Sacramento.
This had to be way before More people made Solano County the commuter county for both Sacramento and San Francisco.
For 'substandardness', I would consider how the road compares with the basic engineering standards of the interstate system, not its immediate surface or structural conditions. Thus, I would say, in no particular order (does not include narrow bridges or tunnels):
- I-180 (Wyoming) - no interchanges, only signalized intersections.
- I-70 (Pennsylvania) - signalized intersections and narrow median/short merge areas, including STOP sign protection on some.
- I-278 (NYC) - narrowness and tight interchange merges.
- I-78 (Jersey City, NJ) - signalized intersections.
- I-93 (Francona Notch S.P., NH) - two lane section.
- I-55 (Memphis, TN) - tight single-lane cloverleaf loop ramp to stay on highway (is being or will soon be fixed).
- I-80 (Delaware Water Gap, NJ) - westbound RIRO intersection.
Mike
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2017, 12:34:54 AM
I-5 in downtown Seattle has an awful design and left exits. I could go for the lay-up with I-70 in Breezewood...might as well say it before it gets too obvious of a pick.
I have never understood the hate for left exits. That being said there are numerous design deficiencies with I-5 throughout its whole length, including having too few lanes through Seattle; the bottlenecks at Marysville, Centralia/Chehalis, North Portland; the left entrance from SR-520 just 1/2 mile from the right exit to Mercer St (SB, the opposite NB); the drawbridges between Vancouver and Portland, and the horrible approach to it in Vancouver; the lack of proper merging lanes/run-up space at the south end of the Express Lanes in Seattle; the sharp turns and non-banked turns in LA.
I would also say that most urban freeways qualify as substandard, as they often rarely have much of an interior shoulder, and often have the exterior shoulder minimized.
I don't think left lane exits are that bad if your going from an Interstate to another Interstate but when they are just another exit I don't like them. The Detroit area has quite a few of them and some of them are being rebuilt to have right lane exits.
I never considered the Square Lake exit (exit 75) on I-75 as a bad exit, coming NB it had a left lane exit but that interchange is being rebuilt and will no longer have the left lane exit once it's finished. Coming NB though it breaks down to 55 mph but doesn't become a city street until about a mile past the exit.
The exit at US-23 and I-96 use to have a left lane entrance from SB 23 to EB 96 with a left lane exit. The exit is still a left lane exit but the entrance to 96 is now a right lane entrance.
What makes left lane entrances and exits bad is when they are close together with right lane entrances and exits on high volume freeways. The whole freeway james up for people who are trying to merge across the whole freeway in time to make their exit. A single left exit in the middle of nowhere with low traffic is no problem, but they tend to be built in urban areas where exits are closely spaced and traffic volumes are high.
Quote from: kkt on September 10, 2017, 01:05:18 PM
What makes left lane entrances and exits bad is when they are close together with right lane entrances and exits on high volume freeways. The whole freeway james up for people who are trying to merge across the whole freeway in time to make their exit. A single left exit in the middle of nowhere with low traffic is no problem, but they tend to be built in urban areas where exits are closely spaced and traffic volumes are high.
exactly, and if a semi has to do that, it ruins everything, as they move slower and cause more slowdowns as a result
Quote from: TEG24601 on September 10, 2017, 10:39:29 AM
I have never understood the hate for left exits.
There was an NCDOT highway engineer that had conniption fits over left exits and entrances, on several online forums.
Quote from: TEG24601 on September 10, 2017, 10:39:29 AM
I would also say that most urban freeways qualify as substandard, as they often rarely have much of an interior shoulder, and often have the exterior shoulder minimized.
The issue then is not the freeways, but the standard itself. Simply not enough room...don't see why urban freeways need to always be compared to rural wide-open freeways where land is abundant.
Quote from: Beltway on September 11, 2017, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on September 10, 2017, 10:39:29 AM
I have never understood the hate for left exits.
There was an NCDOT highway engineer that had conniption fits over left exits and entrances, on several online forums.
I hate them because in the era before GPSes were widespread, you often didn't know that your exit was a left exit so you would have to cut across lanes in order to make your exit. If you're in an area that you're unfamiliar with, it can be a challenge.
Whichever Interstate spends the most time in Indiana and Illinois. So I guess I-74? :-D :spin:
In terms of inability to handle traffic demand, it has to be I-290 in Illinois. In terms of failure to meet Interstate standards, I'd go with I-93 and I-180 in WY.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on September 11, 2017, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 11, 2017, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on September 10, 2017, 10:39:29 AM
I have never understood the hate for left exits.
There was an NCDOT highway engineer that had conniption fits over left exits and entrances, on several online forums.
I hate them because in the era before GPSes were widespread, you often didn't know that your exit was a left exit so you would have to cut across lanes in order to make your exit. If you're in an area that you're unfamiliar with, it can be a challenge.
If it is properly signed, then you will know a mile or two in advance.
Quote from: Beltway on September 11, 2017, 12:39:15 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on September 11, 2017, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 11, 2017, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on September 10, 2017, 10:39:29 AM
I have never understood the hate for left exits.
There was an NCDOT highway engineer that had conniption fits over left exits and entrances, on several online forums.
I hate them because in the era before GPSes were widespread, you often didn't know that your exit was a left exit so you would have to cut across lanes in order to make your exit. If you're in an area that you're unfamiliar with, it can be a challenge.
If it is properly signed, then you will know a mile or two in advance.
Yes, but standards didn't call for signing them in advance until recently, so you didn't find out until too late for an easy merge.
Quote from: kkt on September 11, 2017, 04:42:36 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 11, 2017, 12:39:15 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on September 11, 2017, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 11, 2017, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on September 10, 2017, 10:39:29 AM
I have never understood the hate for left exits.
There was an NCDOT highway engineer that had conniption fits over left exits and entrances, on several online forums.
I hate them because in the era before GPSes were widespread, you often didn't know that your exit was a left exit so you would have to cut across lanes in order to make your exit. If you're in an area that you're unfamiliar with, it can be a challenge.
If it is properly signed, then you will know a mile or two in advance.
Yes, but standards didn't call for signing them in advance until recently, so you didn't find out until too late for an easy merge.
Not the case in the middle Atlantic states.
Quote from: Beltway on September 11, 2017, 05:55:17 PM
Quote from: kkt on September 11, 2017, 04:42:36 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 11, 2017, 12:39:15 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on September 11, 2017, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 11, 2017, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on September 10, 2017, 10:39:29 AM
I have never understood the hate for left exits.
There was an NCDOT highway engineer that had conniption fits over left exits and entrances, on several online forums.
I hate them because in the era before GPSes were widespread, you often didn't know that your exit was a left exit so you would have to cut across lanes in order to make your exit. If you're in an area that you're unfamiliar with, it can be a challenge.
If it is properly signed, then you will know a mile or two in advance.
Yes, but standards didn't call for signing them in advance until recently, so you didn't find out until too late for an easy merge.
Not the case in the middle Atlantic states.
Double that for New England
they've only recently started adding "left" tabs on bgs over here
Case in point on the left hand exits in the Northeast:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9962246,-75.196909,3a,75y,44.69h,107.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk06fYyZVW6CIkURThmohZQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
A driver would have 4/10ths of a mile to get from the right to the left of a busy 4 lane urban freeway.. This is the one and only head's up that it is a left exit, and it is not reinforced by the only later signs before the exit itself:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9986575,-75.195495,3a,75y,11.49h,97.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sez_hHS9n8V8-d9iWJMlWuA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
This lack of great signage may cause an accident every now and then, but that left exit rarely results in backups on to the freeway itself like South Street at I-76. A congested left hand "merge or die" onramp is pretty poor to have rebuilt just recently..
this should be standard. it's on all 3 signs leading up to the exit in indiana now (1mile, 1/2 mile, exit) https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0648226,-86.4950089,3a,17.3y,161.81h,107.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8pnTCJMNG5m5ArIJZ9e2AQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: Chris19001 on September 12, 2017, 12:49:25 PM
Case in point on the left hand exits in the Northeast:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9962246,-75.196909,3a,75y,44.69h,107.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk06fYyZVW6CIkURThmohZQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
A driver would have 4/10ths of a mile to get from the right to the left of a busy 4 lane urban freeway.. This is the one and only head's up that it is a left exit, and it is not reinforced by the only later signs before the exit itself:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9986575,-75.195495,3a,75y,11.49h,97.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sez_hHS9n8V8-d9iWJMlWuA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
This lack of great signage may cause an accident every now and then, but that left exit rarely results in backups on to the freeway itself like South Street at I-76. A congested left hand "merge or die" onramp is pretty poor to have rebuilt just recently..
Even worse is the fact that the first sign says US 1 North is a right exit. It doesn't say that it's an exit only lane. It doesn't say that the 2 RIGHT LANES are exit only lanes!
Only at the 1/4 mile mark (and the sign doesn't say 1/4 mile) that it notes the right 2 lanes are exit only lanes. That's potentially a lot of lane shifting over the next 1,200 feet or so.
As for the City Avenue exit in Philly where does that exactly take you that the main expressway doesn't? All it looks like is an exit ramp that exits and enters the same highway. It looks like a pointless ramp there. And here is what I'm talking about, before the bend going WB you see the City Avenue exit sign with a ramp, the ramp just connects to the same expressway it exited from and the real City Avenue exit is a little further ahead. The entire Schuylkill Expressway is a joke anyway.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on September 11, 2017, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 11, 2017, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on September 10, 2017, 10:39:29 AM
I have never understood the hate for left exits.
There was an NCDOT highway engineer that had conniption fits over left exits and entrances, on several online forums.
I hate them because in the era before GPSes were widespread, you often didn't know that your exit was a left exit so you would have to cut across lanes in order to make your exit. If you're in an area that you're unfamiliar with, it can be a challenge.
As a kid, always found the I-84 Connecticut left exits fascinating, along with the concrete pavement and the bridge stubs into mid-air. There were one time plans to criss-cross Hartford and it's environs with freeways and parkways. Many of the concrete bridge parapets had "1968" on them.
Quote from: Flint1979 on September 12, 2017, 04:12:16 PM
As for the City Avenue exit in Philly where does that exactly take you that the main expressway doesn't? All it looks like is an exit ramp that exits and enters the same highway. It looks like a pointless ramp there. And here is what I'm talking about, before the bend going WB you see the City Avenue exit sign with a ramp, the ramp just connects to the same expressway it exited from and the real City Avenue exit is a little further ahead. The entire Schuylkill Expressway is a joke anyway.
If you're referring to the dual-exit ramps for City Ave.; the likely reasoning for the first/remote exit is to separate the
through-US 1 South traffic (coming from the Roosevelt Expressway) from the mainline I-76 westbound. The second, redundant exit ramp, located at the actual exit, is there in the event that the separate parallel ramp (which acts like a collector-distributor road) is shut down due to an accident or construction repairs. The traffic counts/demands for City Ave. (US 1) warrant such.
I-240 in Asheville. Yikes.
I-99
Quote from: Jardine on September 16, 2017, 10:18:10 PM
I-99
Huh? That route is of fairly recent construction and is up to modern standards.
Violates numbering convention.
Needs to be demolished and built in the correct location.
:sombrero:
Quote from: Jardine on September 16, 2017, 11:10:25 PM
Violates numbering convention.
Needs to be demolished and built in the correct location.
:sombrero:
No, that's like saying I-89 needs to be demolished and moved to New York.
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 12, 2017, 02:16:37 PM
this should be standard. it's on all 3 signs leading up to the exit in indiana now (1mile, 1/2 mile, exit) https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0648226,-86.4950089,3a,17.3y,161.81h,107.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8pnTCJMNG5m5ArIJZ9e2AQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
At least the old signs (the button copy ones, rest their souls) had the tab left-justified (with no yellow field), which used to pass as enough warning. Of course, the tab could sometimes be put in the wrong place. There was a mistaken right tab for a left exit further south on I-65 entering downtown Indy for I-70 eastbound, a sign that also famously mentioned "Columbus O." as a control city. How old-timey.
Massachusetts finally went to boring tabs like the rest of the country after one too many fabrication errors of the integrated tabs. A left tab for a right exit or vice versa was not easy to fix with the old design. Too bad, because I liked those tabs. Saved on materials, still clearly an exit tab, looked fine.
Quote from: PurdueBill on September 18, 2017, 12:37:45 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 12, 2017, 02:16:37 PM
this should be standard. it's on all 3 signs leading up to the exit in indiana now (1mile, 1/2 mile, exit) https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0648226,-86.4950089,3a,17.3y,161.81h,107.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8pnTCJMNG5m5ArIJZ9e2AQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
At least the old signs (the button copy ones, rest their souls) had the tab left-justified (with no yellow field), which used to pass as enough warning. Of course, the tab could sometimes be put in the wrong place. There was a mistaken right tab for a left exit further south on I-65 entering downtown Indy for I-70 eastbound, a sign that also famously mentioned "Columbus O." as a control city. How old-timey.
Massachusetts finally went to boring tabs like the rest of the country after one too many fabrication errors of the integrated tabs. A left tab for a right exit or vice versa was not easy to fix with the old design. Too bad, because I liked those tabs. Saved on materials, still clearly an exit tab, looked fine.
those signs are dropping like flies downtown, slowly getting replaced. the control city for 70 now is Dayton.
After watching some Big Rig Steve video over the weekend, I'll note that several of the interstate freeways in Oklahoma City, OK and the State of Oklahoma (especially I-35) are very substandard, especially WRT paved shoulder width.
Mike
Quote from: Darkchylde on August 11, 2017, 01:40:25 AM
I-180 in Wyoming.
/thread :P
Winner winner, chicken dinner. I drove on that "Interstate" in July. What the crap? It barely qualifies as an arterial street.
I'll give my top 4 (in no particular order, except the first). I'm doing this for the designation as a whole, hence no I-70 (even though a couple stretches in PA rival I-278).
- I-278. The only reason it's an "expressway" is no traffic lights. It is substandard compared even to many of NY's parkways and easily the most substandard limited-access road without significant usage restrictions along its entire length.
- I-587. The only non-I-180 interstate with no grade-separated interchanges. Both termini are at grade and there is ONE grade separation along the length of the thing. Call it NY 28 by itself. I-87 won't even acknowledge this bastard stepchild on signs.
- I-83. One word: clusterf***. The MD section is bad inside I-695 and the PA stretch rivals I-70 in western PA. What the heck kind of barrier is this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7354825,-76.6603015,3a,75y,131.26h,81.57t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D129.29022%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)?
- I-76. Most of its length is on the horribly substandard PA Turnpike and even more-substandard Schuylkill Expressway. The portion through Akron is one of Ohio's worst sections of freeway. Drive on the Sure-kill and you'll see why it's on here.
Quote from: cl94 on September 18, 2017, 07:07:28 PM
What the heck kind of barrier is this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7354825,-76.6603015,3a,75y,131.26h,81.57t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D129.29022%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)?
The PA Turnpike has had a stretch of that kind of barrier (I have no idea what, if any, formal name it has) a little east of the Butler Valley (PA-8) interchange. At some point in the very near future (if not already) it will be gone as that stretch is under construction for rebuilding/widening now.
QuoteI-76. Most of its length is on the horribly substandard PA Turnpike
I don't know that I would call the PA Turnpike "Horribly" substandard. The rebuilt sections are quite nice, and I don't know that the ones that haven't yet are THAT bad. Maybe it's just cause there aren't too many substandard exits spaced close together (like on New Stanton-Washington).[/list]
Quote from: Mr_Northside on September 19, 2017, 01:55:51 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 18, 2017, 07:07:28 PM
What the heck kind of barrier is this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7354825,-76.6603015,3a,75y,131.26h,81.57t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D129.29022%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)?
The PA Turnpike has had a stretch of that kind of barrier (I have no idea what, if any, formal name it has) a little east of the Butler Valley (PA-8) interchange. At some point in the very near future (if not already) it will be gone as that stretch is under construction for rebuilding/widening now.
It looks like it had stripes painted on top, too.[/list]
Quote from: Mr_Northside on September 19, 2017, 01:55:51 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 18, 2017, 07:07:28 PM
What the heck kind of barrier is this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7354825,-76.6603015,3a,75y,131.26h,81.57t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D129.29022%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)?
The PA Turnpike has had a stretch of that kind of barrier (I have no idea what, if any, formal name it has) a little east of the Butler Valley (PA-8) interchange. At some point in the very near future (if not already) it will be gone as that stretch is under construction for rebuilding/widening now.
Traffic barriers (guardrail and concrete) are one of the highway topics that I have always been interested in.
That said, that I-83 barrier is a strange design that I have not seen elsewhere. Not sure if it has a concrete core, but it does look rather sturdy and has steel guardrail on the traffic facing side.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on September 19, 2017, 01:55:51 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 18, 2017, 07:07:28 PM
I-76. Most of its length is on the horribly substandard PA Turnpike
I don't know that I would call the PA Turnpike "Horribly" substandard. The rebuilt sections are quite nice, and I don't know that the ones that haven't yet are THAT bad. Maybe it's just cause there aren't too many substandard exits spaced close together (like on New Stanton-Washington).[/list]
The six-laned sections may be approaching 100 miles length in total, and while I prefer grass medians 40 wide or wider, the current design with a 26-foot paved median is fully modern and provides two 12-foot shoulders and a concrete median barrier.
It may be that in about 7 years or by 2024 that these corridors will be entirely six-laned --
- Ohio to New Stanton -- 75 miles
- Carlisle corridor for 20 miles west of Carlisle -- 20 miles
- Harrisburg West to Harrisburg East -- 5 miles
- Morgantown to Bristol -- 60 miles
- Plymouth Meeting to Quakertown -- 24 miles
That is a total of 184 miles, and at a cost of at least $3 billion, since the late 1980s. Of course that leaves 286 miles of the original turnpike system in its original form, which is certainly substandard by even 1970 Interstate standards.
However, future widening/rebuilding projects will certainly be occurring, and at today's cost of about $25 to $30 million per mile, it will be a very long time before the whole turnpike can be rebuilt, and the 184 miles cited does cover the busiest sections, although Quakertown to Allentown should be pursued as one of the busier priority sections (the remaining 76 miles of NE Extension will never warrant six lanes, IMO).
So if they reach the above completions by 2024 then I do think they will deserve a lot of credit.
Next corridor focus should be on the 86 miles of I-76/I-70 overlap, as its volumes are generally higher than other rural sections and should IMO be rebuilt to six lanes, and the Allegheny Tunnel Project is included there.
Quote from: Beltway on September 19, 2017, 02:34:53 PM
Quote from: Mr_Northside on September 19, 2017, 01:55:51 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 18, 2017, 07:07:28 PM
What the heck kind of barrier is this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7354825,-76.6603015,3a,75y,131.26h,81.57t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D129.29022%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)?
The PA Turnpike has had a stretch of that kind of barrier (I have no idea what, if any, formal name it has) a little east of the Butler Valley (PA-8) interchange. At some point in the very near future (if not already) it will be gone as that stretch is under construction for rebuilding/widening now.
Traffic barriers (guardrail and concrete) are one of the highway topics that I have always been interested in.
That said, that I-83 barrier is a strange design that I have not seen elsewhere. Not sure if it has a concrete core, but it does look rather sturdy and has steel guardrail on the traffic facing side.
This type of median barrier actually exists in Virginia too. The Lynchburg Expwy (current US 29 BUS) has it north of its James River crossing in Madison Heights.[/list]
Quote from: plain on September 20, 2017, 09:21:01 AM
Quote from: Beltway on September 19, 2017, 02:34:53 PM
Quote from: Mr_Northside on September 19, 2017, 01:55:51 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 18, 2017, 07:07:28 PM
What the heck kind of barrier is this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7354825,-76.6603015,3a,75y,131.26h,81.57t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D129.29022%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)?
The PA Turnpike has had a stretch of that kind of barrier (I have no idea what, if any, formal name it has) a little east of the Butler Valley (PA-8) interchange. At some point in the very near future (if not already) it will be gone as that stretch is under construction for rebuilding/widening now.
Traffic barriers (guardrail and concrete) are one of the highway topics that I have always been interested in.
That said, that I-83 barrier is a strange design that I have not seen elsewhere. Not sure if it has a concrete core, but it does look rather sturdy and has steel guardrail on the traffic facing side.
This type of median barrier actually exists in Virginia too. The Lynchburg Expwy (current US 29 BUS) has it north of its James River crossing in Madison Heights.
I wonder (per review on Google Maps) if that was a concrete median barrier design that had a wall and a curb, something prior to the New Jersey design, and was upgraded later by bolting two or three rows of steel W-beam guardrail on the face of the concrete, in order to provide better crash performance on a vehicle that hits it.
Probably would have been better to have removed the old barrier and installed a new barrier.
I see on Google Maps that the Lynchburg Expressway south of the river has a New Jersey median barrier design. I do recall that in the 1970s and 1980s it had a double faced W-beam guardrail.
This is when I wish we could tag people in posts, as jpi might be able to tell us if the metal barrier was a retrofit. He's from the I-83 corridor in PA.
Quote from: Beltway on September 20, 2017, 11:47:34 AM
Quote from: plain on September 20, 2017, 09:21:01 AM
Quote from: Beltway on September 19, 2017, 02:34:53 PM
Quote from: Mr_Northside on September 19, 2017, 01:55:51 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 18, 2017, 07:07:28 PM
What the heck kind of barrier is this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7354825,-76.6603015,3a,75y,131.26h,81.57t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DN1_tpggU5uuWL5wPHkSJqA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D129.29022%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)?
The PA Turnpike has had a stretch of that kind of barrier (I have no idea what, if any, formal name it has) a little east of the Butler Valley (PA-8) interchange. At some point in the very near future (if not already) it will be gone as that stretch is under construction for rebuilding/widening now.
Traffic barriers (guardrail and concrete) are one of the highway topics that I have always been interested in.
That said, that I-83 barrier is a strange design that I have not seen elsewhere. Not sure if it has a concrete core, but it does look rather sturdy and has steel guardrail on the traffic facing side.
This type of median barrier actually exists in Virginia too. The Lynchburg Expwy (current US 29 BUS) has it north of its James River crossing in Madison Heights.
I wonder (per review on Google Maps) if that was a concrete median barrier design that had a wall and a curb, something prior to the New Jersey design, and was upgraded later by bolting two or three rows of steel W-beam guardrail on the face of the concrete, in order to provide better crash performance on a vehicle that hits it.
Probably would have been better to have removed the old barrier and installed a new barrier.
I see on Google Maps that the Lynchburg Expressway south of the river has a New Jersey median barrier design. I do recall that in the 1970s and 1980s it had a double faced W-beam guardrail.
Now that you say that I'm thinking the barrier south of the river was replaced because of how narrow the median is (looking at the satellite view, north of the river isn't quite as narrow). I can't even imagine how it was in that stretch with that fatter barrier in place
Quote from: plain on September 20, 2017, 11:17:11 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 20, 2017, 11:47:34 AM
I wonder (per review on Google Maps) if that was a concrete median barrier design that had a wall and a curb, something prior to the New Jersey design, and was upgraded later by bolting two or three rows of steel W-beam guardrail on the face of the concrete, in order to provide better crash performance on a vehicle that hits it.
Probably would have been better to have removed the old barrier and installed a new barrier.
I see on Google Maps that the Lynchburg Expressway south of the river has a New Jersey median barrier design. I do recall that in the 1970s and 1980s it had a double faced W-beam guardrail.
Now that you say that I'm thinking the barrier south of the river was replaced because of how narrow the median is (looking at the satellite view, north of the river isn't quite as narrow). I can't even imagine how it was in that stretch with that fatter barrier in place
I would need to look up the exact specs, but either one would be about 24 inches wide at the widest point. The New Jersey Barrier is widest at the base, and the double faced W-beam guardrail is widest at the rails.
I-240 in Oklahoma City. Interchanges on the west end of the freeway are too close to one another. And also, the way it is signed now makes no sense. Reinstate the former way it was signed to some degree, like have the west end to terminate at I-40, NOT I-44 like it is now.
I'd say again I-278 in NYC. this is a reason why:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/36142231396_33e9005f81_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/X4LodC)State-named I-278 shield on the service road. I-278 is substandard in this area, trucks need to use the service roads because of low bridges. Queens, NYC. (https://flic.kr/p/X4LodC) by mergingtraffic (https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/), on Flickr
I-278 might be the only Interstate with 2 truck bans in the same city. There's also one in Brooklyn as the Promenade has a 12 foot height restriction.
Quote from: cl94 on September 24, 2017, 01:40:40 PM
I-278 might be the only Interstate with 2 truck bans in the same city. There's also one in Brooklyn as the Promenade has a 12 foot height restriction.
"2 truck bans" means nothing more than one truck ban.
If these truck banned segments were somehow connected, the number of truck bans would
decrease from 2 to 1 while the amount of truck banned road would
increase.
Quote from: 1 on September 24, 2017, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 24, 2017, 01:40:40 PM
I-278 might be the only Interstate with 2 truck bans in the same city. There's also one in Brooklyn as the Promenade has a 12 foot height restriction.
"2 truck bans" means nothing more than one truck ban.
If these truck banned segments were somehow connected, the number of truck bans would decrease from 2 to 1 while the amount of truck banned road would increase.
No, they are unconnected. The only legal way for trucks to get between the two restricted sections is via I-278, as they're ~10 miles apart and NYC generally bans trucks on surface streets.
what are the 2 segments limits?
Other than i-180 in Wyoming, and I-93 in NH....those are really really easy targets...what is the most substandard interstate. Barring short sections where due to an overpass or bridge it is substandard, what one is really bad.
Some ones that may fit the bill
I-70 between Washington PA and the PA Turnpike.
I76 in Philadelphia.
I-4 in Orlando was absolutely awful. The roadway was way too narrow and the ramps had were poorly designed. I'm curious to see what the I-4 Ultimate project yields once it is complete.
I believe we already have an existing thread on this topic:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20915.0
I-76 (the Surekill) definitely belongs on this list of bad interstates, I grew up with it and believe me, it's not fun (and the Roosevelt Expressway isn't a bag of fun either).
I-4? The I-4 Ultimate project will only fix part of the issue, you still don't have any addition of free lanes and the drop lanes are a PITA.
I-16 in Georgia? No, just NO. The one and only time I was on it (in 2007), not only did it feel like an interstate that hadn't been open too long (very few exits and very few services), the pavement was shock and spring-busting bad.
I-94 going through Detroit is really bad. Every weekday during rush hour that route backs up in both directions leading from the Lodge and I-75. I-75 can be bad going north of Detroit but they are working on that currently. MDOT just announced a major construction project on I-696 between I-75 and I-94 and with I-75's ongoing construction north of Detroit that is going to be really bad during construction season.
I-94 is suppose to be widened to eight lanes between Conner and I-96 but I feel it could use even another lane in each direction for ten lanes. If I-94 had I-96's local/express configuration it would be a lot better.
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on April 21, 2018, 12:25:43 PM
I believe we already have an existing thread on this topic:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20915.0
Didn't look, sorry. Was bored waiting for a truck to get worked on.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on April 21, 2018, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on April 21, 2018, 12:25:43 PM
I believe we already have an existing thread on this topic:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20915.0
Didn't look, sorry. Was bored waiting for a truck to get worked on.
It's all good. This is probably a very popular topic to talk about (what interstate is the most substandard) among us roadgeeks, so it is probably easy for several different threads on this to pop up. :thumbsup:
I just vividly remembered the discussion several months ago in the thread that I linked to, which made me realize there was already an existing thread on this topic.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on September 23, 2017, 08:23:02 PM
I'd say again I-278 in NYC. this is a reason why:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/36142231396_33e9005f81_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/X4LodC)State-named I-278 shield on the service road. I-278 is substandard in this area, trucks need to use the service roads because of low bridges. Queens, NYC. (https://flic.kr/p/X4LodC) by mergingtraffic (https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/), on Flickr
At the end of 2017, NYSDOT sunk the pavement a couple of inches increasing the clearance from 12' 6" to 14". The Truck 278 signs still linger but they no longer have to exit. Most of 278 in Brooklyn and Queens is scotch-taped onto old parkways (Gowanus and BQE) and is duplexed with the Grand Central Parkway in Astoria. Ugh.
there are stop signs on the entrance ramps too, this should be SR 278
QuoteI-4 in Orlando was absolutely awful. The roadway was way too narrow and the ramps had were poorly designed. I'm curious to see what the I-4 Ultimate project yields once it is complete.
Are you calling it "way too narrow" due to traffic congestion? Doesn't really meet the earlier definition of "substandard". From my own experience, aside from possibly some ramp spacing near the FL Turnpike and the inside (left) shoulder near downtown, there's nothing I've seen along I-4 that suggests it's substandard. Everything meets Interstate standards, even the left exits/entrances....though FHWA frowns upon them, they are not inherently sub-standard.