Traffic signal

[traffic light guy]

The bottom edges of the mast arm seem to be showing evidence of corrosion, which would indicate aluminum.

Pretty neat, more places should use aluminum poles. Yeah, I do notice some corrosion on the edges of the mast-arms

LG-M327

[ErmineNotyours]

I can't help but to not stop thinking about Lower Merion's signal poles. All the signal arms in the township are silver, and don't have a single spec of rust. Can someone help me figure this out, there are many old signals in this area, but all the poles are bright and silver. Are these poles original or new. I've mentioned this a few times before and all I get are arguments based on what type of metal these poles are.

Here's an intersection on google maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0054821,-75.2217476,3a,27.8y,295.19h,101.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCenRXfXfCMt5ZNbcV9uBrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I've noticed poles in Renton that were painted by the city in silver paint, to spiff them up a bit.  Even more impressive, after I left the city a few years, I noticed the poles supporting the high-tension Seattle City Light power transmission lines were painted from sky blue to grey.  That must have been an impressive task to prevent overspray and to avoid touching the lines.

[kj3400]

Does the US not use distinct transit signals? This is something that has not been standardized in Europe, but most countries have their own variant of transit signals so that regular drivers won't be confused in a situation such as this.

The only symbolic traffic signal I've seen in Seattle for rubber-tired buses instead of street cars or light rail is here.

The light rail in Baltimore has transit signals for the top and bottom indications, but there is no central triangle indication. 
https://goo.gl/maps/mAPiENxRXJG2

SF Muni has similar two-section signal heads along King Street, but the top indication is red. https://goo.gl/maps/jUPT9mWQ5452

The top signal for Baltimore has two indications, the vertical line and a diagonal line instead of a triangle.

[Ian]

I can't help but to not stop thinking about Lower Merion's signal poles. All the signal arms in the township are silver, and don't have a single spec of rust. Can someone help me figure this out, there are many old signals in this area, but all the poles are bright and silver. Are these poles original or new. I've mentioned this a few times before and all I get are arguments based on what type of metal these poles are.

Here's an intersection on google maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0054821,-75.2217476,3a,27.8y,295.19h,101.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCenRXfXfCMt5ZNbcV9uBrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I've been told in the past that the poles are stainless steel, but that could very well be wrong. Lower Merion Township has been using them for decades, and continue to use them to this day (here's an intersection with them that's been installed within the last 7 years or so). Those linked in the GSV you attached look to be that of 1970's PennDOT specs, so the signals are likely original to the poles.

[traffic light guy]

I can't help but to not stop thinking about Lower Merion's signal poles. All the signal arms in the township are silver, and don't have a single spec of rust. Can someone help me figure this out, there are many old signals in this area, but all the poles are bright and silver. Are these poles original or new. I've mentioned this a few times before and all I get are arguments based on what type of metal these poles are.

Here's an intersection on google maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0054821,-75.2217476,3a,27.8y,295.19h,101.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCenRXfXfCMt5ZNbcV9uBrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I've been told in the past that the poles are stainless steel, but that could very well be wrong. Lower Merion Township has been using them for decades, and continue to use them to this day (here's an intersection with them that's been installed within the last 7 years or so). Those linked in the GSV you attached look to be that of 1970's PennDOT specs, so the signals are likely original to the poles.

I've also heard that Lower Merion tends to recycle signal heads. A while ago, I. E-Mailed some guy who works for PennDOT, he says he's not sure, since the signals were done before his time. Wilimington Deleware actually used the same type of pole. Yeah, the old school PennDOT specs are visible, the signals are likely original.

The photo attached was shot in Wilmington Deleware, shot during the Late 1970's.

[Brandon]

The bottom edges of the mast arm seem to be showing evidence of corrosion, which would indicate aluminum.

Pretty neat, more places should use aluminum poles. Yeah, I do notice some corrosion on the edges of the mast-arms

They used to.  The problem is, the price of aluminum is much, much higher than that of steel.

[US 89]

Encountered this the other day, and it was one of the weirdest things I've seen. Unfortunately wasn't around long enough to see how the phasing worked.

https://goo.gl/maps/DdGQ42LWyzy

[traffic light guy]

Encountered this the other day, and it was one of the weirdest things I've seen. Unfortunately wasn't around long enough to see how the phasing worked.

https://goo.gl/maps/DdGQ42LWyzy

God that signal looks extremely confusing, I don't understand how a red arrow and a green arrow can be lit simotanuesly while directing ongoing traffic.

LG-M327

[jakeroot]

Encountered this the other day, and it was one of the weirdest things I've seen. Unfortunately wasn't around long enough to see how the phasing worked.

https://goo.gl/maps/DdGQ42LWyzy

God that signal looks extremely confusing, I don't understand how a red arrow and a green arrow can be lit simotanuesly while directing ongoing traffic.

It's not unprecedented. I've seen something similar in Illinois.

Three examples in WA where exclusive arrows are used with option lanes:

1) Westbound E Broadway @ I-90, Spokane (#2 lane must wait for green to proceed straight from that lane)
2) Southbound 101 @ Boone St, Aberdeen (#2 lane must wait for green orb to proceed straight from that lane)
3) Westbound James St @ I-5, Seattle (Lagging FYA is used at this location, so it works far better (no red arrow phase except at end))

#3 is the only acceptable use of such a setup, in my opinion. None are like US-89's example, which looks to be a continuous green-T like my second example. If option lanes are to be used at double turn locations, permissive movements really should be allowed. As most of these are T-intersections, that shouldn't necessarily be dangerous.

[jakeroot]

A new SafeTran signal was just installed in Kent, Washington. Modification of a protected left, into a flashing yellow arrow. You can see that the bottom face is newer.

This is by a mile the newest SafeTran that I know of.

[traffic light guy]

A new SafeTran signal was just installed in Kent, Washington. Modification of a protected left, into a flashing yellow arrow. You can see that the bottom face is newer.

This is by a mile the newest SafeTran that I know of.

Safetran heads ended production years ago, what you're seeing may be a recycled signal head

[jakeroot]

Safetran heads ended production years ago, what you're seeing may be a recycled signal head

That would make sense. I know the brand name is owned by Econolite, but I didn't think they still made signals anymore. No idea how they got their hands on a recycled head. That's a very unusual sight around here. I have seen button back signals converted to flashing yellow arrows, but the signal faces were simply swapped out to create a three head FYA.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Encountered this the other day, and it was one of the weirdest things I've seen. Unfortunately wasn't around long enough to see how the phasing worked.

https://goo.gl/maps/DdGQ42LWyzy

Move a little to the left and the bottom section of the 4 section signal is lit up as a green left arrow. Im guessing the one above that is a yellow left arrow. The 2 section with the straight arrow is probably something yellow on top

[jakeroot]

Are 8-8-8 all-arrow signals common anywhere outside of Europe? Even in BC, where 8-inch arrows are somewhat normal, the yellow and red displays are orbs.

Not common in Spokane, WA, but one intersection downtown has a couple in each direction: https://goo.gl/uBUf2s -- they were installed in late 2016 or 2017.

These might be 12 inch signals, but they look a lot like 8-inch signals. Sometimes, street view can be tricky.

[traffic light guy]

Are 8-8-8 all-arrow signals common anywhere outside of Europe? Even in BC, where 8-inch arrows are somewhat normal, the yellow and red displays are orbs.

Not common in Spokane, WA, but one intersection downtown has a couple in each direction: https://goo.gl/uBUf2s

These might be 12 inch signals, but they look a lot like 8-inch signals. Sometimes, street view can be tricky.

Suprised it's still up, 8" arrows got banned from the MUTCD ages ago

LG-M327

[jakeroot]

Are 8-8-8 all-arrow signals common anywhere outside of Europe? Even in BC, where 8-inch arrows are somewhat normal, the yellow and red displays are orbs.

Not common in Spokane, WA, but one intersection downtown has a couple in each direction: https://goo.gl/uBUf2s

These might be 12 inch signals, but they look a lot like 8-inch signals. Sometimes, street view can be tricky.

Surprised it's still up, 8" arrows got banned from the MUTCD ages ago

Well this is odd: if you go back to 2011, the intersection barely resembles what we see today: https://goo.gl/929oTF

Skip forward to 2016, and it's still not like it is today. These signals were installed in 2017!

[ErmineNotyours]

I never got to go to the Seattle Children's Museum when I was a kid, even though I wanted to see their traffic light exhibit.  I finally got to go with my sister's daughter, and found the exhibit is still there.

Seattle Children's Museum traffic light exhibit by Arthur Allen, on Flickr

[jakeroot]

I seem to constantly keep finding odd things about Spokane, WA.

Before the flashing yellow arrow, the city used 4-section bi-modal left turn signals for lagging lefts, but doghouses for leading lefts.

Example: left turn from northbound Monroe to westbound Broadway: https://goo.gl/pFSWEN (no oncoming left permitted)
Another: left turns from North Foothills towards either direction of US-2: https://goo.gl/WjeKcs (no oncoming lefts as US-2 is split one-way).

Regular left: https://goo.gl/wZ5jqJ (doghouses even for mast signals, oddly).

[jeffe]

SF Muni has similar two-section signal heads along King Street, but the top indication is red. https://goo.gl/maps/jUPT9mWQ5452

The one's I'm familiar with in Tacoma are closer in relation to the SF version, but use amber and white: https://goo.gl/MsQehp (I believe these are the standard indications, and might be the same used in Baltimore, just with a different signal face style)

It's possible those signals in SF are actually amber, but appear red on Street View. From several angles, the signals in Tacoma look red, but I know from seeing them in person, they're amber.

San Francisco MUNI actually has three legacy styles of signals, show as the left most signals in the above image.  However, they are being upgraded to the type on the far right, which is a red/white combo.

[Brandon]

I can't help but to not stop thinking about Lower Merion's signal poles. All the signal arms in the township are silver, and don't have a single spec of rust. Can someone help me figure this out, there are many old signals in this area, but all the poles are bright and silver. Are these poles original or new. I've mentioned this a few times before and all I get are arguments based on what type of metal these poles are.

Here's an intersection on google maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0054821,-75.2217476,3a,27.8y,295.19h,101.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCenRXfXfCMt5ZNbcV9uBrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

As I've said before about such signals, the poles are probably aluminum.

It still amazes me how they don't have a spec of rust after being up for several decades

Here's an example, in Illinois, of older aluminum trusses mixed with newer galvanized steel monotubes.  It's a good comparison between the two.  The trusses date from the late 1960s/early 1970s, and the mastarms are from the mid/late 1980s.

Larkin & Theodore, Joliet/Crest Hill, looking north.
Larkin & Theodore, Joliet/Crest Hill, looking south.

[jakeroot]

Is this look common anywhere? It's not here, but Federal Way, WA has a one-off older signal where the visors are black, but the body is yellow: https://goo.gl/tC36yD

[traffic light guy]

Is this look common anywhere? It's not here, but Federal Way, WA has a one-off older signal where the visors are black, but the body is yellow: https://goo.gl/tC36yD

This is common in Delaware

LG-M327

[plain]

Is this look common anywhere? It's not here, but Federal Way, WA has a one-off older signal where the visors are black, but the body is yellow: https://goo.gl/tC36yD

This is common in Delaware

LG-M327

Not really in Delaware... the entire front of their signals is black, not just the visors. However, they are common in North Carolina, particularly in the Charlotte and Winston-Salem areas.

[US 89]

Is this look common anywhere? It's not here, but Federal Way, WA has a one-off older signal where the visors are black, but the body is yellow: https://goo.gl/tC36yD

I've seen a fair amount of this in the Atlanta area.

[mrsman]

Encountered this the other day, and it was one of the weirdest things I've seen. Unfortunately wasn't around long enough to see how the phasing worked.

https://goo.gl/maps/DdGQ42LWyzy

God that signal looks extremely confusing, I don't understand how a red arrow and a green arrow can be lit simotanuesly while directing ongoing traffic.

It's not unprecedented. I've seen something similar in Illinois.

Three examples in WA where exclusive arrows are used with option lanes:

1) Westbound E Broadway @ I-90, Spokane (#2 lane must wait for green to proceed straight from that lane)
2) Southbound 101 @ Boone St, Aberdeen (#2 lane must wait for green orb to proceed straight from that lane)
3) Westbound James St @ I-5, Seattle (Lagging FYA is used at this location, so it works far better (no red arrow phase except at end))

#3 is the only acceptable use of such a setup, in my opinion. None are like US-89's example, which looks to be a continuous green-T like my second example. If option lanes are to be used at double turn locations, permissive movements really should be allowed. As most of these are T-intersections, that shouldn't necessarily be dangerous.

Although not quite precise allegory, it's reminiscent of this signal in Vancouver that has been posted on this board before:

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2485002,-123.0723746,3a,75y,295.44h,89.11t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9hf3laXcqpMAs_n3FMnC2w!2e0!5s20150801T000000!7i16384!8i8192

The idea is that the thru lanes are continuous green, but the left turn is protected only.  And the central lane is an option lane to go either direction, but turning left only if there is a green arrow.  Unless the green arrow is a dominant phase, you will find most traffic going straight will end up in the right lane so that they can take advantage of the continuous green.

For simplicity, I would put a six-bulb doghouse* in the central lane and a three phase signal over the right lane.  The red straight and yellow straight do not need to come on, but it would be simpler to denote straight thru on green with a protected left turn.

And ideally, as jakeroot noted, this should be a protected-permitted left signal.  But it's hard, because there are only 3 lanes available and there seems to be enough traffic for the left turn to warrant 2 lanes and for the through traffic to warrant 2 lanes, so you're stuck with a middle option lane.  And in most states this requires a protected only left turn.

* Don't know what else to call a signal like this:

RA  R
YA  Y
GA  G
in one casing.  The G will be a green straight arrow instead of an orb.