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New Buck O Neil Bridge Info

Started by roadman65, October 19, 2021, 12:25:23 PM

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roadman65

Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


MCRoads

I don't live in KC, but I hope that they make the bridge into a pedestrian walkway, or something similar. It is possible with truss bridges, as demonstrated by the Big Four bridge, as well as the Walkway Over the Hudson. I can totally see a nice wide bike/pedeay in the center, with planters on the sides, and smaller walkways with benches for a scenic overlook of the river. But, that would probably cost more than demolition, so that is probably a pipe dream.

Cross section view I can imagine:
R WW/B PP WWWW PP B/WW R
R is the outside railing
W is the walkways
/B <-> B/ is a bench on the walkway
P is the planter boxes
I build roads on Minecraft. Like, really good roads.
Interstates traveled:
4/5/10*/11**/12**/15/25*/29*/35(E/W[TX])/40*/44**/49(LA**)/55*/64**/65/66*/70°/71*76(PA*,CO*)/78*°/80*/95°/99(PA**,NY**)

*/** indicates a terminus/termini being traveled
° Indicates a gap (I.E Breezwood, PA.)

more room plz

skluth

Quote from: MCRoads on October 19, 2021, 05:30:54 PM
I don't live in KC, but I hope that they make the bridge into a pedestrian walkway, or something similar. It is possible with truss bridges, as demonstrated by the Big Four bridge, as well as the Walkway Over the Hudson. I can totally see a nice wide bike/pedeay in the center, with planters on the sides, and smaller walkways with benches for a scenic overlook of the river. But, that would probably cost more than demolition, so that is probably a pipe dream.

Cross section view I can imagine:
R WW/B PP WWWW PP B/WW R
R is the outside railing
W is the walkways
/B <-> B/ is a bench on the walkway
P is the planter boxes

It's being considered

MCRoads

At least there is some local push for that. I personally hate seeing old, beautiful structures from the 1940s-50s being scrapped, and replaced with bland, ubiquitous girder bridges. See the highway 47 bridge in the same state. While I understand why this happens, I wish they would at least pretend to be the older truss style bridges. Put some non-structural truss arches on the new bridge's main span!
I build roads on Minecraft. Like, really good roads.
Interstates traveled:
4/5/10*/11**/12**/15/25*/29*/35(E/W[TX])/40*/44**/49(LA**)/55*/64**/65/66*/70°/71*76(PA*,CO*)/78*°/80*/95°/99(PA**,NY**)

*/** indicates a terminus/termini being traveled
° Indicates a gap (I.E Breezwood, PA.)

more room plz

roadman65

Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

MCRoads

Quote from: roadman65 on October 19, 2021, 10:21:51 PM
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2021/02/23/buck-oneil-bridge-replacement-renderings.html

Renderings of its replacement. Not so attractive like the current one.

Yeah, I saw, that's why I'm peeved. They gave some BS excuses for why it couldn't be another arch design, my favorites being "With LED lighting, it will still become a Kansas City Icon!" , and "because of its close proximity to the airport" . That might sound reasonable, until you realize that even a simple tied arch might actually be lower than the existing bridge, but maybe the FAA disagrees.
I build roads on Minecraft. Like, really good roads.
Interstates traveled:
4/5/10*/11**/12**/15/25*/29*/35(E/W[TX])/40*/44**/49(LA**)/55*/64**/65/66*/70°/71*76(PA*,CO*)/78*°/80*/95°/99(PA**,NY**)

*/** indicates a terminus/termini being traveled
° Indicates a gap (I.E Breezwood, PA.)

more room plz

SkyPesos

Seems to be a trend with MoDOT replacing arch/truss bridges with generic girder bridges. First, the EB US 40/61 bridge over the MO river, then the I-70 Rocheport bridge, and now this.

rarnold

Quote from: SkyPesos on October 20, 2021, 08:36:57 PM
Seems to be a trend with MoDOT replacing arch/truss bridges with generic girder bridges. First, the EB US 40/61 bridge over the MO river, then the I-70 Rocheport bridge, and now this.

Missouri starts their budget for highway projects at cheap and works their way down. It isn't their fault though, as they are hamstrung by entirely too much highway mileage and a gas tax that is far too low. When budget is a concern, astetics go out the window.

Alex

Quote from: SkyPesos on October 20, 2021, 08:36:57 PM
Seems to be a trend with MoDOT replacing arch/truss bridges with generic girder bridges. First, the EB US 40/61 bridge over the MO river, then the I-70 Rocheport bridge, and now this.

The Fairfax/Platte Purchase Bridge along US 69 between Kansas City, KS and Kansas City, MO was also replaced with a nondescript girder bridge.



October 30, 2016 prior to the removal of the old span.

Construction of the new Buck O`Neil Bridge includes flyovers linking with I-35 on the West Loop, so a substantial upgrade there.

SkyPesos

Quote from: Alex on October 20, 2021, 11:06:36 PM
Construction of the new Buck O`Neil Bridge includes flyovers linking with I-35 on the West Loop, so a substantial upgrade there.
Just by looking at this Street View shot of the I-35 NB to US 169 NB movement, yea, a flyover would definitely be an upgrade.

edwaleni

Every generation is typically viewed via its architecture.

This generation will be seen as the lowest cost, cheapest utility generation.

Strip malls, girder or prestressed concrete bridges, generic office parks instead of significant HQ buildings.

Office buildings built for cubes, not offices. Parking lots built instead of garages.

Even our sports arenas reach for the lowest cost in design and appeal. It is about maximizing revenue with the least amount of cost. There is a notion that the look is meaningless because we will tear it down in 20 years anyway.

So while I don't like the generics in bridge design, it simply is reflective of our current culture.

"Don't put too much into it, because we will have to replace it"

JayhawkCO

Quote from: edwaleni on October 21, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Even our sports arenas reach for the lowest cost in design and appeal. It is about maximizing revenue with the least amount of cost. There is a notion that the look is meaningless because we will tear

I agree with a lot of your post, but not this part.



Some teams do it right. Even in KC, Children's Mercy Park is a pleasant design.

Chris

Alex

Quote from: SkyPesos on October 20, 2021, 11:18:47 PM
Quote from: Alex on October 20, 2021, 11:06:36 PM
Construction of the new Buck O`Neil Bridge includes flyovers linking with I-35 on the West Loop, so a substantial upgrade there.
Just by looking at this Street View shot of the I-35 NB to US 169 NB movement, yea, a flyover would definitely be an upgrade.

Extracted the rendering of the Central Alternative, the Preferred Alternative, showing the realignment and planned flyovers:


Great Lakes Roads

Quote from: Alex on October 21, 2021, 11:07:49 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 20, 2021, 11:18:47 PM
Quote from: Alex on October 20, 2021, 11:06:36 PM
Construction of the new Buck O`Neil Bridge includes flyovers linking with I-35 on the West Loop, so a substantial upgrade there.
Just by looking at this Street View shot of the I-35 NB to US 169 NB movement, yea, a flyover would definitely be an upgrade.

Extracted the rendering of the Central Alternative, the Preferred Alternative, showing the realignment and planned flyovers:



So, the question is: will that exit be numbered as 2Z?
-Jay Seaburg

edwaleni

Quote from: jayhawkco on October 21, 2021, 01:17:09 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on October 21, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Even our sports arenas reach for the lowest cost in design and appeal. It is about maximizing revenue with the least amount of cost. There is a notion that the look is meaningless because we will tear

I agree with a lot of your post, but not this part.



Some teams do it right. Even in KC, Children's Mercy Park is a pleasant design.

Chris

Absolutely, there will be exceptions. Like dropping a new stadium inside the doric columns of Soldier Field.

Lincoln Financial Field in Philly is definitely an example of a low cost affair.

When there is no interest or impetus to make it remarkable, then the lowest cost rules.

I have written letters to several DOT's about their planned architecture for specific bridges, and the responses I always get is it's about money.

I am not saying *every* bridge should be gilded in gold and ornate and lavish. But I am an advocate for certain bridges in certain locations to go further in making it aesthetically pleasing.

If New York City were to start over and replace all of their bridges, they would all be white cable stayed pre-stressed concrete.

SkyPesos

Quote from: edwaleni on October 27, 2021, 11:03:07 AM
If New York City were to start over and replace all of their bridges, they would all be white cable stayed pre-stressed concrete.
Like the new Tappan Zee Bridge? I'm fine with that, better than the much more boring design MoDOT is using for this (and other recent) bridges.

mvak36

Quote from: SkyPesos on October 27, 2021, 11:17:56 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on October 27, 2021, 11:03:07 AM
If New York City were to start over and replace all of their bridges, they would all be white cable stayed pre-stressed concrete.
Like the new Tappan Zee Bridge? I'm fine with that, better than the much more boring design MoDOT is using for this (and other recent) bridges.

I wonder if the downtown airport being close by had anything to do with that. Also, I don't think MODOT has enough money to do any fancy designs.
Counties: Counties visited
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froggie

^ Likely a contributing factor.  The new bridge is more or less on the edge of the clear zone for Runway 1-19.  A good rule of thumb in general to not have tall stuff near airports to begin with.

edwaleni

Quote from: SkyPesos on October 27, 2021, 11:17:56 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on October 27, 2021, 11:03:07 AM
If New York City were to start over and replace all of their bridges, they would all be white cable stayed pre-stressed concrete.
Like the new Tappan Zee Bridge? I'm fine with that, better than the much more boring design MoDOT is using for this (and other recent) bridges.

And yes, I almost wrote in an exception for the new Tappan Zee. They did do a better job at differentiation.

Actually New York and California seem to be more comfortable at unique bridge designs. Illinois is a mix. They will do a great job on the Clark Bridge and the Musial/Veterans, but then go strictly low budget on the I-270/Mississippi bridge.

Missouri did a good job adding highlights when US-40 was upgraded to I-64, technically they are standard pre-stressed concrete girder, but they added some cosmetics to make them look better, black iron work like guard rails, the saint symbol,  etc. Iowa did the corn stalk like pylons for the Memorial replacement @ Rock Island.  These DOT's *can* get creative at a low budget when they are pushed.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: froggie on October 27, 2021, 02:51:29 PM
A good rule of thumb in general to not have tall stuff near airports to begin with.

<San Diego pretends to get a phone call and leaves the room>
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

JayhawkCO

Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2021, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: froggie on October 27, 2021, 02:51:29 PM
A good rule of thumb in general to not have tall stuff near airports to begin with.

<San Diego pretends to get a phone call and leaves the room>

Hong Kong left the room to build a new airport.

Chris

skluth

Quote from: jayhawkco on November 01, 2021, 03:43:22 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2021, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: froggie on October 27, 2021, 02:51:29 PM
A good rule of thumb in general to not have tall stuff near airports to begin with.

<San Diego pretends to get a phone call and leaves the room>

Hong Kong left the room to build a new airport.

Chris

Hong Kong built their airport on landfill surrounded by water, like Tokyo. Or San Francisco for that matter. The airport sites are completely different. No place in San Diego to build a new airport unless the military closes North Island or Miramar; I wouldn't count on either being BRAC'ed.

brad2971

Quote from: skluth on November 02, 2021, 04:19:20 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on November 01, 2021, 03:43:22 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2021, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: froggie on October 27, 2021, 02:51:29 PM
A good rule of thumb in general to not have tall stuff near airports to begin with.

<San Diego pretends to get a phone call and leaves the room>

Hong Kong left the room to build a new airport.

Chris

Hong Kong built their airport on landfill surrounded by water, like Tokyo. Or San Francisco for that matter. The airport sites are completely different. No place in San Diego to build a new airport unless the military closes North Island or Miramar; I wouldn't count on either being BRAC'ed.

Unless the Air Force wants to transfer March Air Reserve Base to the Marine Corps (and one can argue March is more important as a reserve base than it ever was as an active base), neither the Marine Corps nor the Navy can afford to lose Miramar and North Island. In fact, both the Chief of Naval Operations and the Commandant of the Marine Corps have been adamant that both the Navy and Marine Corps have no major or even minor bases they can place on a BRAC list.

Plutonic Panda

#23
The existing bridge is being demolished now:


**Not my photo**

QuoteAccording to MoDOT, the overall $257,879,900 project broke ground in Summer 2021 and will be finished in December of this year.


**not my photo**

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/modot-demolishes-buck-oneil-bridge-business-reacts-to-the-growth-of-kansas-city



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