Virginia

[sprjus4]

Another longish gap is on I-77. There is the rest area/welcome center at the North Carolina state line, but the next rest area isn't until one gets to the one at Rocky Gap around MP60. Going south, there is the adjacent rest area/welcome center with the next available rest area at the North Carolina rest area/welcome center. While not a major gap for I-77, it is a big gap for those who get on I-77 from I-81. The closest rest area on I-81 going south is at Radford at MP109 and going north, it's the cars-only rest area at MP61 at Rural Retreat. Granted, Wytheville is in the middle to provide lots of services, but for a quick bathroom break one must have iron kidneys. There were plans for north and south rest areas just south of Fort Chiswell (junction with I-81) but other than grading nothing else has been done there.

These two rest areas were graded and drained when I-77 was built in the late 1970s, and they are visible on Google Maps Satellite View.

http://www.roadstothefuture.com/I77_Map_NC_I81_XL.jpg
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/I77_VA_Aerial_Photos.html

They would have provided service on the I-77 route as well as between southerly I-77 and both directions of I-81.

So that's what those stubs are... that had been bugging me for a while now.

Thanks for the info.

[Beltway]

These two rest areas were graded and drained when I-77 was built in the late 1970s, and they are visible on Google Maps Satellite View.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/I77_Map_NC_I81_XL.jpg
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/I77_VA_Aerial_Photos.html
They would have provided service on the I-77 route as well as between southerly I-77 and both directions of I-81.

So that's what those stubs are... that had been bugging me for a while now.
Thanks for the info.

There are others built in the late Interstate era that were graded and drained but not completed, probably for the reasons I posted earlier about costs and sewage treatment issues.
-- I-64 MP 33 EB & WB east of Clifton Forge, paved and EB used for truck parking only with no buildings, WB unopened
-- I-64 MP 145 EB & WB east of Ferncliff, paved and with no buildings, unopened
-- I-66 MP 3 EB west of Front Royal, paved and used for truck parking only with no buildings
-- I-66 MP 16 WB east of Markham, paved and with no buildings, unopened

[AlexandriaVA]

I have actually wondered if building 2 or 3 safety rest areas along I-495 Capital Beltway could be accomplished, as it would make things a lot easier for travelers.

Where, how, and most importantly, why?

The first two are more addressed to when the highway was built and soon afterward, when things were cheaper to build and there was more open land available.

Why -- there isn't a need for places to stop and rest and use public restrooms when traveling thru the area?

It has only been the last few years that those convenience stores have been built near Exit 13 Ritchie-Marlboro Road, and the vast majority of long distance travelers on I-95 would have no clue that they are available.

Even back in the day, that probably would have been a fantastic waste of prime land. Now it seems utterly unconscionable.
And to the "why" - seems pretty silly considering the amount of full-service facilities along the Beltway. Don't need a government parking lot when industry gets it done.

[Beltway]

The first two are more addressed to when the highway was built and soon afterward, when things were cheaper to build and there was more open land available.
Why -- there isn't a need for places to stop and rest and use public restrooms when traveling thru the area?
It has only been the last few years that those convenience stores have been built near Exit 13 Ritchie-Marlboro Road, and the vast majority of long distance travelers on I-95 would have no clue that they are available.

Even back in the day, that probably would have been a fantastic waste of prime land. Now it seems utterly unconscionable.
And to the "why" - seems pretty silly considering the amount of full-service facilities along the Beltway. Don't need a government parking lot when industry gets it done.

"Back in the day" much of the land along the Beltway (and I am referring to both states) was rural, hard as that is to believe today.

What places would you stop at if you needed restroom facilities and/or fuel?  Many exits you would go off in a wild goose chase and drive for miles without finding anything, particularly at night.  If you don't have local familiarity then forget it.

[sprjus4]

The first two are more addressed to when the highway was built and soon afterward, when things were cheaper to build and there was more open land available.
Why -- there isn't a need for places to stop and rest and use public restrooms when traveling thru the area?
It has only been the last few years that those convenience stores have been built near Exit 13 Ritchie-Marlboro Road, and the vast majority of long distance travelers on I-95 would have no clue that they are available.

Even back in the day, that probably would have been a fantastic waste of prime land. Now it seems utterly unconscionable.
And to the "why" - seems pretty silly considering the amount of full-service facilities along the Beltway. Don't need a government parking lot when industry gets it done.

"Back in the day" much of the land along the Beltway (and I am referring to both states) was rural, hard as that is to believe today.

What places would you stop at if you needed restroom facilities and/or fuel?  Many exits you would go off in a wild goose chase and drive for miles without finding anything, particularly at night.  If you don't have local familiarity then forget it.

Agreed, and I'd say the same with Hampton Roads. There's no real truck stops, Loves, Pilot, etc. until you reach west of the New Kent Safety Rest Area. From the Currituck Welcome Center, that's about 100 miles.

Ironically, if you're heading west on US-58 on the other hand, though Outer Banks traffic isn't, there's a Pilot in Suffolk, and a Loves in Franklin. You'd think I-64 would have gotten such truck stops before US-58, but I guess not. It's a much heavier corridor.

If not a rest area, it'd be nice to have a truck stop of some sort built off I-664 where there's still developable land. If it's positioned north of VA-164, you could also capture VIG and PMT truck traffic. Another location for a truck stop could also be off the southern VA-199 / I-64 interchange in Williamsburg, on the west side of I-64 there's developable land. Ditto with Northern Virginia and Southern Maryland on I-495.

[AlexandriaVA]

The first two are more addressed to when the highway was built and soon afterward, when things were cheaper to build and there was more open land available.
Why -- there isn't a need for places to stop and rest and use public restrooms when traveling thru the area?
It has only been the last few years that those convenience stores have been built near Exit 13 Ritchie-Marlboro Road, and the vast majority of long distance travelers on I-95 would have no clue that they are available.

Even back in the day, that probably would have been a fantastic waste of prime land. Now it seems utterly unconscionable.
And to the "why" - seems pretty silly considering the amount of full-service facilities along the Beltway. Don't need a government parking lot when industry gets it done.

"Back in the day" much of the land along the Beltway (and I am referring to both states) was rural, hard as that is to believe today.

What places would you stop at if you needed restroom facilities and/or fuel?  Many exits you would go off in a wild goose chase and drive for miles without finding anything, particularly at night.  If you don't have local familiarity then forget it.

I'll give you Georgetown Pike. The rest?  Northern VA ain't the sticks the rest of VA...there's stuff off every exit. Why rest stops anyways? Those things are dumpy.

[sprjus4]

The first two are more addressed to when the highway was built and soon afterward, when things were cheaper to build and there was more open land available.
Why -- there isn't a need for places to stop and rest and use public restrooms when traveling thru the area?
It has only been the last few years that those convenience stores have been built near Exit 13 Ritchie-Marlboro Road, and the vast majority of long distance travelers on I-95 would have no clue that they are available.

Even back in the day, that probably would have been a fantastic waste of prime land. Now it seems utterly unconscionable.
And to the "why" - seems pretty silly considering the amount of full-service facilities along the Beltway. Don't need a government parking lot when industry gets it done.

"Back in the day" much of the land along the Beltway (and I am referring to both states) was rural, hard as that is to believe today.

What places would you stop at if you needed restroom facilities and/or fuel?  Many exits you would go off in a wild goose chase and drive for miles without finding anything, particularly at night.  If you don't have local familiarity then forget it.

I'll give you Georgetown Pike. The rest?  Northern VA ain't the sticks the rest of VA...there's stuff off every exit. Why rest stops anyways? Those things are dumpy.

Yes, but there's not one simple truck stop or large rest area that has full bathroom facilities with capacity for a large amount of people, large parking lot, etc.

Just a lot of small gas stations, fast food places, etc.

[Beltway]

What places would you stop at if you needed restroom facilities and/or fuel?  Many exits you would go off in a wild goose chase and drive for miles without finding anything, particularly at night.  If you don't have local familiarity then forget it.

I'll give you Georgetown Pike. The rest?  Northern VA ain't the sticks the rest of VA...there's stuff off every exit. Why rest stops anyways? Those things are dumpy.

Yes, but there's not one simple truck stop or large rest area that has full bathroom facilities with capacity for a large amount of people, large parking lot, etc.  Just a lot of small gas stations, fast food places, etc.

VA-193 Georgetown Pike?  There are no commercial services within at least 2 miles on either side of I-495.

The other Beltway interchanges, for the most part, do not have easy access to services.  Even if within a mile or so, you have to run the gauntlet of all kinds of traffic lights and traffic congestion to get there.

Not just picking on I-495, as much the same situation exists with the I-695 Baltimore Beltway.

[froggie]

Regarding rest areas, given trucker time/rest requirements and the general lack of truck parking in many states and metropolitan areas, I'd argue that preservation of existing rest areas should continue in order to provide such truck parking.

It's not just "commercial services" that drives the need for such facilities.

[Beltway]

Regarding rest areas, given trucker time/rest requirements and the general lack of truck parking in many states and metropolitan areas, I'd argue that preservation of existing rest areas should continue in order to provide such truck parking.
It's not just "commercial services" that drives the need for such facilities.

Agree fully, as over the years FHWA has published studies highlighting the lack of sufficient truck parking facilities all over the country.

[amroad17]

Hampton Roads has always had a dearth of truck stops.  The only two, other than the two mentioned above, are Big Charlie's on Northampton Blvd (US 13) in Virginia Beach and Frank's just to the west of Bowers Hill.

If Virginia had the monetary resources, they should improve and enlarge their truck weigh stations--have them look like the ones in Dale City and Stephens City with quite a few available parking spots.  Also, allow truckers to drive over the scales at 30-35 mph vs the 10-15 mph they do now.

When I drove, I always found Virginia's weigh stations to be "primitive", in that they look like they were built in the 1960's & 1970's (which they were), they are small, and you drove over the scales at such a slow speed.  Many other states have the ability to weigh a truck going 30-45 mph as well as having large lots available for truck parking.

[AlexandriaVA]

Why should taxpayers subsidize the trucking industry even more? Let them pay market rates for hotel rooms for their drivers, or at least parking lot rental rates...

Besides, truck stops/rest areas are a rural thing. I don't know why this is even up for discussion.

[froggie]

It's "up for discussion" because Federal rules and law require truckers rest after so many hours, and there is a well-documented lack of truck parking in urban areas (and actually a number of East Coast states in general).  "Market rates for hotel rooms" won't work either...how many hotels do you know of that offer that quantity of truck parking?

Do you honestly think businesses, nearby residents, or the city would welcome trucks to try and park en-masse at the hotels in Carlyle or along Eisenhower Ave?  Even the hotels along Richmond Hwy would be hard-pressed to have enough parking for more than one or two trucks.  And Alexandria and Southeast Fairfax are not alone in this problem...

[sprjus4]

Why should taxpayers subsidize the trucking industry even more? Let them pay market rates for hotel rooms for their drivers, or at least parking lot rental rates...

Besides, truck stops / rest areas are a rural thing. I don't know why this is even up for discussion.

It seems you're ignorant of the trucking industry if you are pushing claims like this. Truck stops / rest areas have been found countless times in urban areas. Should an urban area that stretches 100 miles long have no truck stop / rest area?

If an urban area has through traffic, there's bound to be a truck stop / rest area to accommodate that traffic. Just because it's an urban area doesn't mean there's no through traffic. Northern Virginia / Southern Maryland, and Hampton Roads have through traffic, and need at least one truck stop / rest area.

[Beltway]

When I drove, I always found Virginia's weigh stations to be "primitive", in that they look like they were built in the 1960's & 1970's (which they were), they are small, and you drove over the scales at such a slow speed.  Many other states have the ability to weigh a truck going 30-45 mph as well as having large lots available for truck parking.

How long ago was that?  As of 2011, Virginia had 12 WIM (weigh-in-motion) sites, with more planned.  See page 3 --
http://www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/main/online_reports/pdf/12-r4.pdf

[D-Dey65]

Nice improvement, I have driven thru the ramps several times.



VDOT finishes upgrade of Thornburg interchange on Interstate 95
THE FREE LANCE—STAR  6-26-2019

The Interstate 95 Thornburg exit upgrades include a new overpass, turn lanes at ramps and sidewalks.

The revamped Interstate 95 interchange in Thornburg is fully open for traffic, more than two months ahead of schedule, the Virginia Department of Transportation announced Wednesday morning.

Work on the $22.4 million project, which includes a redesigned and widened overpass, started in September 2017.

"By replacing a bridge that was original to the interstate system, we have removed a piece of infrastructure
that was structurally deficient and replaced it with an overpass that reflects the region's needs and will serve future generations,"  VDOT Fredericksburg District Administrator said Marcie Parker said in a news release.

The overpass was expanded from two to four lanes and turn lanes were added at the I—95 ramps. Sidewalks also were added to the bridge and a portion of Mudd Tavern Road.

The interchange also has a new layout, "an off-set diamond design ... selected to minimize the right-of-way required for the road and ramp improvements,"  local VDOT spokeswoman Kelly Hannon said in the release.

https://www.fredericksburg.com/news/local/vdot-finishes-upgrade-of-thornburg-interchange-on-interstate/article_c17dc803-0408-5870-aedb-6365e92a07d3.html

https://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/Fredericksburg/Exit_118_Design_Overview.pdf

This is what I miss out on for dodging I-95 north of VA 207.

Let's see if I've got this right though;
The feds forced NCDOT to convert Exit 87 on I-95 in Four Oaks into a full diamond interchange before the turn of the millennium, but it's perfectly alright for VDOT to convert one of the off-ramps of a diamond interchange into an RIRO ramp, with the potential for a west-to-north only connecting on-ramp?

[Rothman]

Regarding truck parking areas in urban areas, they have also been useful in helping the industry and cities work together on time restrictions to manage freight traffic.

[Beltway]

VDOT finishes upgrade of Thornburg interchange on Interstate 95
THE FREE LANCE—STAR  6-26-2019

Let's see if I've got this right though;
The feds forced NCDOT to convert Exit 87 on I-95 in Four Oaks into a full diamond interchange before the turn of the millennium, but it's perfectly alright for VDOT to convert one of the off-ramps of a diamond interchange into an RIRO ramp, with the potential for a west-to-north only connecting on-ramp?

It is not a RIRO ramp, it is the conversion to a loop ramp on the one quadrant that needs it, traffic from the Thornburg/US-1 area to I-95 North.

[amroad17]

When I drove, I always found Virginia's weigh stations to be "primitive", in that they look like they were built in the 1960's & 1970's (which they were), they are small, and you drove over the scales at such a slow speed.  Many other states have the ability to weigh a truck going 30-45 mph as well as having large lots available for truck parking.

How long ago was that?  As of 2011, Virginia had 12 WIM (weigh-in-motion) sites, with more planned.  See page 3 --
http://www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/main/online_reports/pdf/12-r4.pdf

It was before 2011--I believe it was 2007 when I last drove over the scales at a Virginia weigh station (I-77 in Bland County). 

What I was referring to were the weigh stations themselves.  On the report, I see that the Stephens City, Dumfries, and Troutville weigh stations have WIM.  These are ones that have the DMV overseeing them.  All the other weigh stations have trucks going 10-15 mph over the scales. 

[Beltway]

When I drove, I always found Virginia's weigh stations to be "primitive", in that they look like they were built in the 1960's & 1970's (which they were), they are small, and you drove over the scales at such a slow speed.  Many other states have the ability to weigh a truck going 30-45 mph as well as having large lots available for truck parking.

How long ago was that?  As of 2011, Virginia had 12 WIM (weigh-in-motion) sites, with more planned.  See page 3 --
http://www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/main/online_reports/pdf/12-r4.pdf

It was before 2011--I believe it was 2007 when I last drove over the scales at a Virginia weigh station (I-77 in Bland County). 
What I was referring to were the weigh stations themselves.  On the report, I see that the Stephens City, Dumfries, and Troutville weigh stations have WIM.  These are ones that have the DMV overseeing them.  All the other weigh stations have trucks going 10-15 mph over the scales. 

15 mph is not "in motion"?   Originally a truck would be completely stopped for a minute or more.

[sprjus4]

VDOT finishes upgrade of Thornburg interchange on Interstate 95
THE FREE LANCE—STAR  6-26-2019

Let's see if I've got this right though;
The feds forced NCDOT to convert Exit 87 on I-95 in Four Oaks into a full diamond interchange before the turn of the millennium, but it's perfectly alright for VDOT to convert one of the off-ramps of a diamond interchange into an RIRO ramp, with the potential for a west-to-north only connecting on-ramp?

It is not a RIRO ramp, it is the conversion to a loop ramp on the one quadrant that needs it, traffic from the Thornburg/US-1 area to I-95 North.

It's a RIRO. Once traffic is on the side road, it's no longer apart of the ramp. The small channelized movement from Thornburg to the I-95 ramp area is not apart of the interstate ramp, though it helps move traffic to it.

The part highlighted in red are the actual interstate ramps, which are in a RIRO configuration.

[amroad17]

When I drove, I always found Virginia's weigh stations to be "primitive", in that they look like they were built in the 1960's & 1970's (which they were), they are small, and you drove over the scales at such a slow speed.  Many other states have the ability to weigh a truck going 30-45 mph as well as having large lots available for truck parking.

How long ago was that?  As of 2011, Virginia had 12 WIM (weigh-in-motion) sites, with more planned.  See page 3 --
http://www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/main/online_reports/pdf/12-r4.pdf

It was before 2011--I believe it was 2007 when I last drove over the scales at a Virginia weigh station (I-77 in Bland County). 
What I was referring to were the weigh stations themselves.  On the report, I see that the Stephens City, Dumfries, and Troutville weigh stations have WIM.  These are ones that have the DMV overseeing them.  All the other weigh stations have trucks going 10-15 mph over the scales. 

15 mph is not "in motion"?   Originally a truck would be completely stopped for a minute or more.

Yes, 15 mph is "in motion".  And I remember the places in which trucks had to completely stop before being sent on their way (US 13/58/460 just east of the VA 337 intersection in Suffolk comes to mind).  I am comparing these weigh stations to those in Florida, Georgia, and the ones near Durham, NC and Charlotte, NC where a truck can go 45 mph over the scale, if they do not have the opportunity to bypass the scales.

Even Kentucky, which built larger weigh stations with "truck haven" parking, still has a 15-20 mph limit for their scales.

After pondering this subject for a few minutes and remembering when I drove through Virginia, I believe truckers do have to stop, for usually no more than five to ten seconds, at the scales in Bland, Sandston, and the Dismal Swamp (Suffolk).

[Beltway]

It is not a RIRO ramp, it is the conversion to a loop ramp on the one quadrant that needs it, traffic from the Thornburg/US-1 area to I-95 North.

It's a RIRO. Once traffic is on the side road, it's no longer apart of the ramp. The small channelized movement from Thornburg to the I-95 ramp area is not apart of the interstate ramp, though it helps move traffic to it.
The part highlighted in red are the actual interstate ramps, which are in a RIRO configuration.

No it is not.  The entire loop is a freeway ramp.  It has its own lane from the exit point on VA-606 and it is limited access all the way through.

[sprjus4]

It is not a RIRO ramp, it is the conversion to a loop ramp on the one quadrant that needs it, traffic from the Thornburg/US-1 area to I-95 North.

It's a RIRO. Once traffic is on the side road, it's no longer apart of the ramp. The small channelized movement from Thornburg to the I-95 ramp area is not apart of the interstate ramp, though it helps move traffic to it.
The part highlighted in red are the actual interstate ramps, which are in a RIRO configuration.

No it is not.  The entire loop is a freeway ramp.  It has its own lane from the exit point on VA-606 and it is limited access all the way through.

Once you are on the interstate ramp, you should not be able to exit it. You can do such in this case. And the off-ramp from I-95 northbound is most certainly RIRO. You have to stop at a side road then turn left to access the main road.

And that side road is not limited-access. There's two driveway access points on it.

[Beltway]

The entire loop is a freeway ramp.  It has its own lane from the exit point on VA-606 and it is limited access all the way through.

Once you are on the interstate ramp, you should not be able to exit it.

There are many cases that allow that, and no rule against that.

You can do such in this case. And the off-ramp from I-95 northbound is most certainly RIRO. You have to stop at a side road then turn left to access the main road.

A single ramp cannot be RIRO.  That is a signalized intersection where that finger ramp ends.  Have you used this new interchange configuration yet?

And that side road is not limited-access. There's two driveway access points on it.

I was referring to the loop itself.  It is limited access.