I suddenly got to thinking this could make for a good thread of its own, from the thread about how many turns it takes to follow each route in your state:
Quote from: webny99 on August 29, 2022, 03:14:52 PM
It's interesting that four different routes terminate at NY 21 at an intersection where staying on NY 21 requires a turn (NY 64, NY 53, NY 371, and NY 63), and two more routes terminate while concurrent with NY 21 (NY 332 and NY 15).
So, you could definitely say that NY 21 is NY's most persistent state route given the way it interacts with those 6 different routes at locations where it could logically terminate, but it always ends up continuing while the other routes are terminated.
What route in your state continues through the greatest number of logical terminus locations? Can any route beat NY 21, which has 6?
This is somewhat subjective, but generally a logical location for a route to terminate would be where it turns and another route continues straight. But it isn't just the number of turns, as sometimes turns aren't logical places for a route to end (
like this (https://goo.gl/maps/R3RMKWeWzrVJTkzD9)) and vice versa.
CA 1 has a crap ton of other state routes which logically terminate at it.
OH 37. Have so many turns at terminating routes that it looks like what should be 4 or 5 separate state routes stitched together under a single route.
I don't think I really see any that have more than 2 in Colorado, CO30 for example. There are some out in the plains (CO59) that turn plenty to get around property lines, but its a gentle curve and not an intersection.
WI-32 duplexes with 10 other routes (and WI-57 and I-43 TWICE) to complete its legislatively mandated border to border routing. It is duplexed for more than a third of its entire routing, and most of the time when it flies solo is a relatively minor route.
WI-22 as well, maybe not as much so as WI-32.
Alabama SR 69 is a bit of a Frankenstrasse. There's four junctions with US 43, it could have conceivably ended about 5 times at different places, and the fact that Smith Lake cut the route in two (the overlaps with I-65 and I-359 came later, because 69 was there first). And yet goes on a grand tour of the state for 280 miles, which makes it the longest one in the state which isn't primarily multiplexed, though it hooks up with many US Routes around the state.
K-9 is ridiculous. It's the second-longest state route in Kansas, but it really doesn't deserve to be.
https://goo.gl/maps/rYx8ZCRjYkL5DkBp8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-9_(Kansas_highway)
OK-3 has a practically infinite number of "logical terminus points", since the first 316 miles of it are concurrent with other routes, so any given point along that concurrency would be more sensible than the route continuing.
MN 9, which was steadily assembled from three different route numbers into its current configuration, with an E-W leg (including stretches where it goes backwards from its signed directions) a SE-NW leg, and a more N-NE leg.
MN 1 has a bunch of sensible termini it plows through (Ely, MN 65, US 53, MN 6, MN 89, Thief River Falls)
I guess it would be PA 18. The longest route in PA with a lot of turns all over.
WA 20, the longest highway in the state and extended several times to replace other highways. I count 9 logical termini:
1. Port Townsend ferry terminal
2. SR 525 just southeast of Coupeville
3. SR 20 Spur near Anacortes
4. SR 536 near Mount Vernon
5. SR 9 near Sedro-Woolley (where there's a concurrency)
6. US 97 near Okanogan (where a long concurrency starts)
7. SR 21 near Republic (short concurrency)
8. US 395 near Kettle Falls (concurrency)
9. SR 31 at Tiger
Not counting the plethora of Maryland state routes with multiple discontinuous segments, it would probably be MD 2, starting with two turns in the Solomons area, running concurrent with MD 4 through much of Calvert County, bearing right into southern Anne Arundel County, changing trajectory at a roundabout, then entering and exiting US 50 through the Annapolis area at interchanges. Then a straight shot along Ritchie Highway to a wide curve through Glen Burnie, turning due north, then entering Baltimore and splitting into a one-way pair, Potee and Hanover streets. After crossing the Middle Branch solely as Hanover Street, it gets fun in Federal Hill, turning right on Montgomery/Hughes and then north on Light Street, which then splits into St. Paul/Calvert streets. Going through downtown and Mount Vernon, MD 2 finally ends along that one-way pair at US 1, North Avenue.
In Nevada, probably US 95.
1. Coming south out of Oregon it could terminate in Winnemucca.
2. Going north from Fallon it could terminate at I-80.
1. and 2. So the long I-80/US 95 concurrency could be eliminated.
3. Coming north from Needles CA it could terminate at I-11 on the west side of Boulder City.
I wouldn't terminate the US 95 through route at US 6 at Coaldale Junction or Tonopah but I suppose that could be argued. Likewise with the US 95 jog/concurrency with US 50 in Fallon.
Not sure how impressive this is... either US 36 through Denver (isn't it 270, officially?)
US 87 comes to mind.
Not sure this is what you're looking for.
Some candidates for Ontario:
Highway 6
- Before 1980, the Manitoulin Island to Highway 17 portion was a separate highway (#68), and arguably that makes sense since the ferry across Lake Huron closes for the winter, leaving a gap in the current Highway 6
- The portion north of Chatsworth (where the Highway 10 concurrency starts) could be renumbered as Highway 10 since the route to Tobermory follows the slightly northwest-southeast direction of Highway 10
- There's plenty of concurrencies where Highway 6 be ended, included Highway 21/26 in Owen Sound, Highway 7 in Guelph, Highway 401 near Guelph, and Highway 403 in Hamilton
- The fastest route from Port Dover to the north end of Guelph isn't on Highway 6 (though it's not too much slower)
Highway 7
- Currently there's a large gap through the GTA
- The long Highway 8 concurrency is arguably unnecessary. Highway 85 could be extended south to Highway 8 in Kitchener instead
- The Highway 6 concurrency in Guelph could be removed (though it's not too long)
- The Highway 12 concurrency is long and makes the Highway 7 route very indirect. Also Highway 7 west of Highway 12 seems unnecessary in the provincial highway network with the adjacent 407
Highway 11
- This goes from a north-south route between Barrie and Cochrane/Matheson to an east-west route to Minnesota.
- The fastest route between Barrie and Nipigon isn't even on Highway 11 despite that highway going between both points (though it's a flatter route better for a trucks)
- The long concurrency with Highway 17 around Thunder Bay could be eliminated to split the highway in two
Probably US 6 for Colorado. It has loads of concurrencies with I-70 where it could logically have a terminus. Termini would stretch from Grand Junction to Sterling, so around 10-20 for these points. Not sure if this is what OP is looking for
Delaware 15 takes some crazy turns through Kent County. I don't know why they routed it the way they did close to Dover.
For Michigan I would have to say US-31, off the top of my head I count 14 routes that terminate at it. I can't think of another Michigan highway like that.
Quote from: jlam on August 30, 2022, 10:14:32 AM
Probably US 6 for Colorado. It has loads of concurrencies with I-70 where it could logically have a terminus. Termini would stretch from Grand Junction to Sterling, so around 10-20 for these points. Not sure if this is what OP is looking for
The only reason I didn't pick this is because it continues through other states on either side.
As I posted above, I think CO30 is the best example and it only has two intersections. We just don't have many of these kinds of things in Colorado. Actually, CO348 over by Olathe turns 6 times. That's probably a pretty good example. It doesn't intersect any other state routes and such at the intersections, but it's the best we got.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zDMPt3Rc/CO348.png)
In New York, NY 96 has NY 21 beat:
- NY 434 in Owego
- NY 38 in Owego
- NY 96B in Candor
- NY 89 in Ithaca has a slight overlap with NY 96 before terminating
- NY 64 and NY 252 in Pittsford, a double whammy
- NY 31F in Rochester
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 30, 2022, 10:30:44 AM
CO348 over by Olathe turns 6 times. That's probably a pretty good example. It doesn't intersect any other state routes and such at the intersections, but it's the best we got.
With no intersecting state routes, I don't really consider it to have any other "logical place" for it to end. To me, it's more of a "should be a bunch of county highways instead" situation.
CO-71 has quite a few turns, and it could be broken up into multiple routes, but I think its existence as a single route makes sense. If anything, I might even send it down 109 from La Junta to Kim instead of its current southernmost routing.
I think some people are misunderstanding the OP's post. It's not how many other routes terminate at any given route. Rather, why does a given route continue when it could logically terminate? And how many times does that happen?
An example in MI would be I-275. It could terminate at the southern I-96 interchange. But it persists up to I-696.
In Southern Indiana, I'd like to offer up IN 56. There are several places where the highway could just terminate at the intersection of another highway, but it turns and continues on. Example-at Petersburg, IN it ends at IN 57, but then joins it for a mile to IN 61 when it then takes for 4 miles before splitting off to Jasper. Then in Jasper it ends at US 231 but jags north 7 miles to split off again to French Lick. At French Lick/West Baden Springs it ends into US 150 and rides along until Paoli when it becomes its own highway eastbound. It does another switching at Vevay jutting north when the direct path from it would have been east on what is now IN 156.
The question to answer with these is this:
Does the "persistent" routing make sense, given that the route forms a single corridor?
Or is the "persistent" routing unnecessary, because it comprises multiple corridors that have been artificially strung together?
Another way of wording it is this: Would there be any good reason for normal people to drive the entire route (or, say, half of it)?
For SC I think it's SC 6. Has at least five different multiplexes with various US and state highways, and it most certainly has never been the quickest route between Ballantine and Monck's Corner, even pre-interstate. And it intersects three different interstates (20, 26, and 95).
And for TN, I'd say it's US 431. It intersects both US 31 and US 41 twice (Franklin and Nashville, and Nashville and Springfield), and intersects all five of Greater Nashville's interstates plus both Briley and Ellington Parkways at least once.
MA 62 would fit the bill as it contains 27 turns from Barre to Beverly.
Quote from: kphoger on August 30, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
The question to answer with these is this:
Does the "persistent" routing make sense, given that the route forms a single corridor?
Or is the "persistent" routing unnecessary, because it comprises multiple corridors that have been artificially strung together?
Another way of wording it is this: Would there be any good reason for normal people to drive the entire route (or, say, half of it)?
I'm not sure the routing has to be unnecessary in order to be persistent. It wouldn't be totally illogical to drive NY 21 between its endpoints, but there's still six different locations where NY 21 turns/"persists" even though it isn't the logical through route (eight locations if you count both ends of the overlaps with NY 15 and NY 332)
Quote from: kphoger on August 30, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Would there be any good reason for normal people to drive the entire (or, say, half of it) of any long non-expressway route regardless of if it's persistent or not?
No
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 30, 2022, 11:32:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 30, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Would there be any good reason for normal people to drive the entire (or, say, half of it) of any long non-expressway route regardless of if it's persistent or not?
No
Confused what you're saying here. So you're saying it doesn't make sense to drive all of, say, US2 in Montana if you're driving from Williston, ND to Bonners Ferry, ID? ID28 from Rexburg, ID to Salmon, ID?
Quote from: webny99 on August 30, 2022, 10:01:53 PM
I'm not sure the routing has to be unnecessary in order to be persistent.
To my mind, if the route is a logical route between two towns, then its midpoint isn't really a "logical terminus".
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 31, 2022, 01:07:48 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 30, 2022, 11:32:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 30, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Would there be any good reason for normal people to drive the entire (or, say, half of it) of any long non-expressway route regardless of if it's persistent or not?
No
Confused what you're saying here. So you're saying it doesn't make sense to drive all of, say, US2 in Montana if you're driving from Williston.ND to Bonners Ferry, ID? ID28 from Rexburg, ID to Salmon, ID?
Yeah, I don't get it.
For another example, I once drove
all but the northernmost 14 miles of K-25 (https://goo.gl/maps/33DdP6ywozC3TgQm8). This is because I was driving from Atwood (KS) to Amarillo (TX) and eventually Big Bend National Park. It was one of the two most logical routes to take to Oklahoma.
Quote from: kphoger on August 31, 2022, 11:37:06 AM
Quote from: webny99 on August 30, 2022, 10:01:53 PM
I'm not sure the routing has to be unnecessary in order to be persistent.
To my mind, if the route is a logical route between two towns, then its midpoint isn't really a "logical terminus".
Sure, it very well could be. Routes often involve more than one corridor, so you wouldn't expect to always be able to take a single route number between any two points. The fact that it's not illogical to do so is often proof of the "persistence" of the route.
Heading southbound, NY 21 could logically terminate at NY 332, NY 64, or NY 15/63, yet it continues through all of them. The fact that there
is a single route between Williamson, NY, and Andover, NY, that weaves together what could be several different corridors and somehow makes it through Canandaigua intact, is much more a proof of the route's persistence than an indictment of its routing.
Quote from: webny99 on August 31, 2022, 12:04:39 PM
Heading southbound, NY 21 could logically terminate at NY 332, NY 64, or NY 15/63, yet it continues through all of them. The fact that there is a single route between Williamson, NY, and Andover, NY, that weaves together what could be several different corridors and somehow makes it through Canandaigua intact, is much more a proof of the route's persistence than an indictment of its routing.
Does NY have a rule that when a larger numbered state route meets a smaller one and one have to terminate, it's the larger one that terminates most of the time? Some OhioDOT representative told me about that rule for Ohio when I asked why the Columbus-Newark freeway have three state route designations on it at different points (OH 161, 37, 16) instead of a unified route number.
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 31, 2022, 01:56:47 PM
Quote from: webny99 on August 31, 2022, 12:04:39 PM
Heading southbound, NY 21 could logically terminate at NY 332, NY 64, or NY 15/63, yet it continues through all of them. The fact that there is a single route between Williamson, NY, and Andover, NY, that weaves together what could be several different corridors and somehow makes it through Canandaigua intact, is much more a proof of the route's persistence than an indictment of its routing.
Does NY have a rule that when a larger numbered state route meets a smaller one and one have to terminate, it's the larger one that terminates most of the time? Some OhioDOT representative told me about that rule for Ohio when I asked why the Columbus-Newark freeway have three state route designations on it at different points (OH 161, 37, 16) instead of a unified route number.
Not that I am aware of, but maybe there is. It does seem like lower numbered routes are often longer (NY 3, NY 5, NY 7, etc.), but there are exceptions too, such as NY 53 and NY 70 being short routes while NY 104 and NY 417 are among the longest in the state.
Quote from: webny99 on August 31, 2022, 12:04:39 PM
you wouldn't expect to always be able to take a single route number between any two points
No. But disconnecting a single route between two points, into several routes instead, doesn't exactly seem "logical" to me.
Quote from: kphoger on August 31, 2022, 03:18:03 PM
Quote from: webny99 on August 31, 2022, 12:04:39 PM
you wouldn't expect to always be able to take a single route number between any two points
No. But disconnecting a single route between two points, into several routes instead, doesn't exactly seem "logical" to me.
But unless every T-junction of state routes has an overlap in one direction, one origin/destination combo or another
has to be split between several routes..
I would say WI-47. It duplexes with many routes before it runs on it's own again.
Here's are West Virginia's state routes that seem to defy logic:
(Nine) WV-41 (Jct WV-210/Beckley***, US-19/Eisenhower Drive/Beckley, US-19/N Eisenhower Drive/Beckley, Jct WV-61/Piney View, US-60/North of Clifftop, US-60/East of Lookout, Corridor L/Mount Nebo, Broad Street*/Summersville, Main Street*/Summersville, Webster Road*/Summersville, WV-55 (former WV-43)**/Calvin***)
*Still on the original route of WV-41 through Summersville; US-19 was relocated to this route in 1947; US-19 relocated to Corridor L in
**WV-41 was extended to Calvin in 1932; extended a bit further to Craigsville in 1941; truncated back to Calvin in 1979
***illogical endpoints don't count in the persistency calculations
(Eight) WV-94 (WV-39/Laurel Creek, WV-39/Minnehaha Springs, WV-28/Dunmore, US-250/Bartow, US-219/US-250/Huttonsville, Corridor H/West Elkins, Corridor H/Harding, US-250/Belington)
*did not include the logical overlap with US-50 west of Fellowsville
(Eight) WV-55 (WV-41/Calvin, WV-20/Craigsville, WV-39/Fenwick, US-219/Mill Point, US-33/South Elkins, WV-28/Seneca Rocks, US-220/WV-28/Petersburg, US-48*/Moorefield)
*Eastern end of US-48 (Corridor H) constructed roughly along the original WV-55 routing east of Moorefield.
**WV-55 originally ended at Moorefield; was extended south and west in 1982 as a continuous scenic route to the Cranberry Highlands from the Washington DC area.
(Eight) WV-16 (WV-10/Pineville, WV-10/Mullens, Jct WV-54/Mullens, Byrd Drive/Sophia, Corridor L/Fayetteville, US-60/Chimney Corner, US-60/WV-39/Gauley Bridge, WV-39/Belva)
*did not include the logical overlap with US-52 at Welch
**did not include the logical overlap with US-19 on the Oak Hill Expressway south of Oak Hill (constructed before Corridor L)
Oddly, all three of the state routes in West Virginia's only real cluster (39/41/43) are represented here. They were WV/VA-39 from Gauley Bridge -to- Goshen, Virginia via Summersville; WV-41 from Beckley -to- Calvin/Craigsville via Summersville; and WV-43 from Hookersville to Calvin. WV-43 was originally numbered WV-15, renumbered as part of the WV-150 Highland Scenic Highway chain, and then renumbered again as part of the WV-55 extension.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 31, 2022, 06:03:28 PM
I would say WI-47. It duplexes with many routes before it runs on it's own again.
WI-47 should be three different routes: Appleton to Cecil, Keshena to near Antigo, and Rhinelander to Manitowish.
Quote from: webny99 on August 31, 2022, 02:54:49 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 31, 2022, 01:56:47 PM
Quote from: webny99 on August 31, 2022, 12:04:39 PM
Heading southbound, NY 21 could logically terminate at NY 332, NY 64, or NY 15/63, yet it continues through all of them. The fact that there is a single route between Williamson, NY, and Andover, NY, that weaves together what could be several different corridors and somehow makes it through Canandaigua intact, is much more a proof of the route's persistence than an indictment of its routing.
Does NY have a rule that when a larger numbered state route meets a smaller one and one have to terminate, it's the larger one that terminates most of the time? Some OhioDOT representative told me about that rule for Ohio when I asked why the Columbus-Newark freeway have three state route designations on it at different points (OH 161, 37, 16) instead of a unified route number.
Not that I am aware of, but maybe there is. It does seem like lower numbered routes are often longer (NY 3, NY 5, NY 7, etc.), but there are exceptions too, such as NY 53 and NY 70 being short routes while NY 104 and NY 417 are among the longest in the state.
Originally the one and two digit routes formed the main backbone of the system (I believe even was more often than not north-south and odd east-west, but I haven't verified that). Three digit routes were assigned in clusters; suffixes were child routes. However, these days routes are no longer assigned according to that system. Both NY 104 and NY 417 were assigned later; NY 104 is a composite of former US 104 and another route to the east, and NY 417 is former NY 17.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on August 31, 2022, 08:33:39 PM
Here's are West Virginia's state routes that seem to defy logic:
(Nine) WV-41 (Jct WV-210/Beckley***, US-19/Eisenhower Drive/Beckley, US-19/N Eisenhower Drive/Beckley, Jct WV-61/Piney View, US-60/North of Clifftop, US-60/East of Lookout, Corridor L/Mount Nebo, Broad Street*/Summersville, Main Street*/Summersville, Webster Road*/Summersville, WV-55 (former WV-43)**/Calvin***)
*Still on the original route of WV-41 through Summersville; US-19 was relocated to this route in 1947; US-19 relocated to Corridor L in
**WV-41 was extended to Calvin in 1932; extended a bit further to Craigsville in 1941; truncated back to Calvin in 1979
***illogical endpoints don't count in the persistency calculations
(Eight) WV-94 (WV-39/Laurel Creek, WV-39/Minnehaha Springs, WV-28/Dunmore, US-250/Bartow, US-219/US-250/Huttonsville, Corridor H/West Elkins, Corridor H/Harding, US-250/Belington)
*did not include the logical overlap with US-50 west of Fellowsville
(Eight) WV-55 (WV-41/Calvin, WV-20/Craigsville, WV-39/Fenwick, US-219/Mill Point, US-33/South Elkins, WV-28/Seneca Rocks, US-220/WV-28/Petersburg, US-48*/Moorefield)
*Eastern end of US-48 (Corridor H) constructed roughly along the original WV-55 routing east of Moorefield.
**WV-55 originally ended at Moorefield; was extended south and west in 1982 as a continuous scenic route to the Cranberry Highlands from the Washington DC area.
(Eight) WV-16 (WV-10/Pineville, WV-10/Mullens, Jct WV-54/Mullens, Byrd Drive/Sophia, Corridor L/Fayetteville, US-60/Chimney Corner, US-60/WV-39/Gauley Bridge, WV-39/Belva)
*did not include the logical overlap with US-52 at Welch
**did not include the logical overlap with US-19 on the Oak Hill Expressway south of Oak Hill (constructed before Corridor L)
Oddly, all three of the state routes in West Virginia's only real cluster (39/41/43) are represented here. They were WV/VA-39 from Gauley Bridge -to- Goshen, Virginia via Summersville; WV-41 from Beckley -to- Calvin/Craigsville via Summersville; and WV-43 from Hookersville to Calvin. WV-43 was originally numbered WV-15, renumbered as part of the WV-150 Highland Scenic Highway chain, and then renumbered again as part of the WV-55 extension.
WV really likes to use 1- and 2-digit route numbers, which leads to a lot of long multiplexes to connect different sections that logically aren't really a through corridor. There are only a small number of cases where the state used a new number instead of extending another route already in the area.
I'd throw in WV 20, which currently runs from near New Martinsville to Bluewell. Starting from the north:
- at US 19 near Lumberport, removing multiplex with US 19 to Clarksburg
- at US 119 north of Buckhannon, removing the multiplex with US 119 into Buckhannon
- at WV 4 in Rock Cave, where WV 4 could easily be re-extended back up to Buckhannon
- at WV 15 in Diana, removing multiplex with WV 15 into Webster Springs
- at WV 82 near Cowen, with route back to Webster Springs being replaced by WV 82 or an extended WV 41
- at WV 55 at Craigsville, removing multiplex to Fenwick
- at WV 39 at Nettie, removing multiplex back to Fenwick
- at US 60 at Charmco, removing multiplex to Rainelle
- at Princeton slicing rest over to US 52 at Bluewell into its own route
That's nine distinct points. What is now WV 20 was once three separate state routes (Webster Springs north, Craigsville to Fenwick, and Rainelle to Princeton, with non-numbered portions in between).
WV 3 could also be reasonably sliced into other configurations. From west to east:
- at WV 34 near Hamlin, replaced by an extended WV 34
- at WV 214 near Yawkey, replaced by an extended WV 214
- at US 119 near Julian, removing multiplex to Danville
- at WV 94 at Racine, replaced by an extended WV 94
- at WV 99 at Surveyor, replaced by an extended WV 99
- at US 19 in Beckley, removing multiplex to Shady Spring
- at WV 12 east of Hinton, removing multiplex to Alderson
- at US 219 at Pickaway, removing multiplex to Union
That's also eight different ways that you could logically divide the route into smaller pieces.
Quote from: GaryV on August 30, 2022, 12:38:57 PM
I think some people are misunderstanding the OP's post. It's not how many other routes terminate at any given route. Rather, why does a given route continue when it could logically terminate? And how many times does that happen?
An example in MI would be I-275. It could terminate at the southern I-96 interchange. But it persists up to I-696.
According to FHWA and Chris Bessert's Michigan Highways site, I-275 does indeed terminate at the southern I-96 exchange, despite the signage and appearances on maps:
"*Under the "Length" heading above, two separate and rather different figures are quoted as to the length of I-275, slightly less than five miles apart! This is because the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) does not share the opinion with MDOT that I-275 continues northerly from the I-96/Jeffries Frwy & M-14 jct concurrently with I-96 to the massive I-96/I-275/I-696/M-5 interchange in Novi/Farmington Hills. (The 34.903 mile length is measured to the "I-275 ENDS" sign on nbd I-96/I-275 just shy of 10 Mile Rd.)"
http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/MichHwys250-696.html
Historically, CA-150 might qualify. It started at Surf (a small Amtrak station west of Lompoc). The Surf-Solvang corridor is fairly straight. But then it would run southeast through the San Marcos Pass. But just before terminating at US-101, it would then run as a parallel to US-101 until near Casitas Lake. And then instead of another short southern run to US-101, it would run instead travel northeast from there all the way to Santa Paula.
Today, Surf-Solvang is now CA-246. Solvang-Santa Barbara is now CA-154. Santa Barbara-Lake Casitas is now CA-192. Only the Lake Casitas-Santa Paula alignment remains as modern CA-150 (and is concurrent with CA-33 for a short while). I generally prefer longer state highways, but I can see why this was broken up into smaller state routes. It felt extremely forced to travel the entire route. At least 2-3 natural ending points.
But that's nothing compared to the historic extent of CA-24. Just look at a historic road map for that one. Basically it was the entirety of modern CA-70. And then ran as a totally different south-north route that is mostly CA-160 these days. And then once again turned into a different west-east route that began in the Bay Area. It had an orientation somewhat akin to I-80 being mostly diagonal, but this was far more forced. It's another route that I totally get why it was broken up into multiple smaller routes.
It seems at one point in time, it was considered for the San Rafael-Richmond Bridge alignment of I-580 to be its own interstate. Supposedly this was recommended by AASHTO to be Interstate 180. Caltrans argued against this because CA-180 already existed. Given there is a long concurrency with I-80 (and a wrong-way concurrency at that!) and this alignment also runs north-south while the rest of the route is west-east, I can see it. It could have worked. But at the same time, I prefer fewer routes. So I-580 ending up how it did is fine with me.
I just had an opportunity to drive the entire length of MT 3, from I-90 in Billings to I-15 in Great Falls. In fact, MT 3 mostly exists as the best route between the two cities. However, only 47 miles of its 221 mile length is solo. The rest of it is duplexed with US 12, then US 191, then US 87 and MT 200. So, it could end at US 12 in Lavina; or US 191 at Harlowton; or US 87/MT 200 at Eddies Corner.
In the state of Georgia, GA 17 is incredibly persistent, as it engages in many different concurrencies (adding up to a decent bit of non-independent mileage), and has many intersections where it could theoretically stop. However, GA 17 does add up to be a generally cohesive route, as an important corridor along the far eastern part of the state, paralleling the South Carolina border throughout its trek, and connecting the Savannah area with the North Carolina border. And many different parts of the road (in different parts of the state) have been undergoing expansions and improvements, and GA 17 finds itself on the route of many notable bypasses in the state, as well as part of Jimmy Deloach Parkway now in Savannah. So although it makes sense given the overall significance of the route, there is no doubting the persistence of GA 17 in the state.
IL 64 starts at US 41 [Lake Shore Dr.] as LaSalle Dr., then on commonly known North Ave segment for 25 some miles. Co-signs with US 52 in NW IL, then at MS River goes with US 52 onto a bridge, to end over the river. At that point, IA 64 starts westbound.
Quote from: wriddle082 on August 30, 2022, 09:41:03 PM
For SC I think it's SC 6. Has at least five different multiplexes with various US and state highways, and it most certainly has never been the quickest route between Ballantine and Monck's Corner, even pre-interstate. And it intersects three different interstates (20, 26, and 95).
And for TN, I'd say it's US 431. It intersects both US 31 and US 41 twice (Franklin and Nashville, and Nashville and Springfield), and intersects all five of Greater Nashville's interstates plus both Briley and Ellington Parkways at least once.
TN SR 1
The Memphis to Bristol Highway intersects several US highways in Tennessee.
US 98 in Florida. It could terminate at US 19 and 27 in Perry. It could terminate at US 92 in Lakeland. US 17 in Bartow. US 27 in Frostproof. US 441 in Okeechobee.
US 319 could end at US 98 and not overlap it.
US 25 could end at North Augusta, SC.
US 23 could end at I-985 at I-85. Or it could end in Atlanta, or Waycross.
For Virginia I think it’s US 522. (I’ve gone on before about how it could be dropped from the system: an extended US 17 north of Winchester, a re-extended VA 3 between Winchester and Culpeper, and an extended VA 229 south of Culpeper.)
-meets US 11, 17, and 50 in Winchester
-about 10 miles south of Winchester, it picks up US 340 and they head into Front Royal, briefly picking up VA 55 as well
-not that far south of Front Royal, it joins US 211 for nearly 10 miles, then heads south to Culpeper
-meets US 15/29 and their business routes in Culpeper
-after a relatively long 30ish mile solo stretch, picks up VA 208 near Lake Anna into Mineral
-a few miles south of Mineral, it briefly joins US 33 at Cuckoo
-a 20 mile solo stretch is followed by it joining VA 6 through Goochland
-south of VA 6 it crosses into Powhatan County and ends at US 60. Until about a decade ago this was solidly the middle of nowhere but Powhatan is rapidly becoming a Richmond exurb. In fact a very large chunk of 522’s path through Virginia is through very quiet areas.
With the exception of US 340 and VA 208, 522 is the route that changes roads in its concurrencies.
US-421 here in NC
NC 194 is a really piecemeal route that has a lot of locations where it could logically end, but at all of them it continues forward on a multiplex to another segment of highway, unrelated to the last.
TN SR 67 is similarly piecemeal and has a lot of places where it could end, although not to the extreme extent that NC 194 is at.
Quote from: index on September 29, 2022, 12:00:26 PM
NC 194 is a really piecemeal route that has a lot of locations where it could logically end, but at all of them it continues forward on a multiplex to another segment of highway, unrelated to the last.
I would agree with this, except the more I get up in that area it seems like NC-194 is the off-the-beaten-path route that almost all of the quaint mountain scenery (with the most Hex barn quilt signs). But indeed, the routing is crazy. I've never done the entire route in one trip. It would be better managed if it were like VA-42 with multiple segments.
NC 903 is also a good choice. It meanders all over eastern NC, and seemingly was extended to Virginia to give one number from I-85 and South Hill to the Lake Gaston area (despite the route being entirely secondary on the VA side).
CA-168 exists in three, non-contiguous pieces. (It is signed concurrently with US-395 from Bishop to Big Pine, but technically concurrencies don't actually exist and Caltrans is very inconsistent in practice, sometimes signing implied concurrencies, other times not). Point is, all three could function fine as three separate routes, as each has a different purpose. Western segment connects Fresno to the western Sierra foothills. Middle segment connects the Sierra escarpment to Bishop. Eastern segment connects the Owens Valley to the Nevada border. There were plans "on paper" to connect the western and middle segment, but it will never happen.
The routing of SR 99 in Tennessee defies logic. The through route is from Waynesville to Bradeyville. With opposite end dog legs out of almost every town it passes through.