Why does Chick-fil-A avoid the Northeast

[The Nature Boy]

New England loves to duplicate its local chains. Dunkin, CVS and Market Basket have been mentioned but Shaw's (a grocery chain) is another. West Lebanon, NH literally has two within a mile of each other in the same commercial cluster.

I suspect it's a regional pride thing.

[Rothman]

Basically a salesperson in Macy's can only make more than minimum wage if they sell more in commission than the hourly rate of pay for the total of hours worked.  Your wage is basically an advance, and you actually work harder for your money than you really should be.

Wow.  You'd think labor at Macy's would therefore be a race-to-the-bottom, unless other like retailers run the same commission scheme.  In other words, you'd think the good salespeople would actually head off to work at places with better pay schemes than one where your salary is a commission advance, leaving only less-skilled salespeople to work at Macy's.

Wow. 

[english si]

Some large shopping malls have 2 of the same store within the same mall.

West Quay in Southampton used to have 3 Costa Coffees, with another 3 on the main shopping street just outside. None was more than 100yds from another, though there was only one pair where you could (just about) see both.

[kkt]

Basically a salesperson in Macy's can only make more than minimum wage if they sell more in commission than the hourly rate of pay for the total of hours worked.  Your wage is basically an advance, and you actually work harder for your money than you really should be.

Wow.  You'd think labor at Macy's would therefore be a race-to-the-bottom, unless other like retailers run the same commission scheme.  In other words, you'd think the good salespeople would actually head off to work at places with better pay schemes than one where your salary is a commission advance, leaving only less-skilled salespeople to work at Macy's.

Wow. 

I suspect the better salespeople do okay at Macy's.  It's the beginning salespeople that aren't good at sales yet and the ones stuck on slow shifts that are hurt.

[Rothman]

Basically a salesperson in Macy's can only make more than minimum wage if they sell more in commission than the hourly rate of pay for the total of hours worked.  Your wage is basically an advance, and you actually work harder for your money than you really should be.

Wow.  You'd think labor at Macy's would therefore be a race-to-the-bottom, unless other like retailers run the same commission scheme.  In other words, you'd think the good salespeople would actually head off to work at places with better pay schemes than one where your salary is a commission advance, leaving only less-skilled salespeople to work at Macy's.

Wow. 

I suspect the better salespeople do okay at Macy's.  It's the beginning salespeople that aren't good at sales yet and the ones stuck on slow shifts that are hurt.

Ok.  All I've got now is that I have no idea where that second "Wow" came from.

[Buffaboy]

That's really interesting to hear. Springfield is a college town, but in the year I spent there, I never felt like it was all that different culture-wise from decidedly conservative Oklahoma. (In fact, it seemed more so; in Springfield I saw a truck flying Nazi flags that I believed had some sort of affiliation with the KKK, but I tried to avoid looking at it too closely as I was a lone pedestrian crossing the street in front of it and felt somewhat threatened by its presence. I've never seen any such thing in Oklahoma City.)

Springfield is known as being the whitest major city in the U.S., due to a lynching having driven out the entire black population in the early 1900s. The effects are still apparent today.


iPhone

I thoguht that was either Salt Lake City or Phoenix.

On a side note, I wonder if confederate flags are flown out there? It wouldn't make sense because they were never part of the confederacy, but at the same time the flag is seen differently from different perspectives. Personally, I loathe its presence and see it as hatred, but this is just my opinion.

Back to the OT, I think it could also have something to do with economics.

[Buffaboy]

Why did Dunkin Donuts avoid California for years?

Maybe because Dunkin' Donuts is based in Massachusetts, and the Northeast is their core area of operations?

I loved how there was a Dunkin' both within and above the Downtown Crossing station at City Hall in Boston.

This is pretty much how Tim Hortons operates in the Buffalo area. In some areas there'll be a Tim Hortons in a grocery store or sports place and then a standalone outside of it as well. The running joke is that "there's a Tim Hortons on every corner."

The store that takes the cake as the slowest to expand but widely-known could potentially be Wegmans, which opens something like 1-2 stores per year in uber-wealthy areas, but still operates what some would consider "run down" stores in areas like East Syracuse.

[jwolfer]

That's really interesting to hear. Springfield is a college town, but in the year I spent there, I never felt like it was all that different culture-wise from decidedly conservative Oklahoma. (In fact, it seemed more so; in Springfield I saw a truck flying Nazi flags that I believed had some sort of affiliation with the KKK, but I tried to avoid looking at it too closely as I was a lone pedestrian crossing the street in front of it and felt somewhat threatened by its presence. I've never seen any such thing in Oklahoma City.)

Springfield is known as being the whitest major city in the U.S., due to a lynching having driven out the entire black population in the early 1900s. The effects are still apparent today.


iPhone

I thoguht that was either Salt Lake City or Phoenix.

On a side note, I wonder if confederate flags are flown out there? It wouldn't make sense because they were never part of the confederacy, but at the same time the flag is seen differently from different perspectives. Personally, I loathe its presence and see it as hatred, but this is just my opinion.

Back to the OT, I think it could also have something to do with economics.

I would have guessed someplace like Burlington VT as the whitest city

[Rothman]

On a side note, I wonder if confederate flags are flown out there?

There are idiots flying Confederate Battle Flags here in the Capital Region of NY.  Somehow, that flag has become a symbol of just general...rebellion, I suppose (which means...shouldn't we throw them in jail?), and by "rebellion" I mean "stupidity."  At least MO was essentially a border state.  Flying it in NY?  That should qualify you for sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on.

[jwolfer]

On a side note, I wonder if confederate flags are flown out there?

There are idiots flying Confederate Battle Flags here in the Capital Region of NY.  Somehow, that flag has become a symbol of just general...rebellion, I suppose (which means...shouldn't we throw them in jail?), and by "rebellion" I mean "stupidity."  At least MO was essentially a border state.  Flying it in NY?  That should qualify you for sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on.

When I see people in NY and PA I think racist white supremacists types. In FL, VA or any other former Confederate state I think heritage and history. ( no comments on FL is not the South. My ancestors fought for confederacy with Florida Company)

[jp the roadgeek]

The Civic Center Mall in Hartford used to have two Wendy's: one on the same level as the Coliseum entrance, and one upstairs.  The upstairs one was call Wendy's Too.  Meanwhile today, I live in a town of just over 40,000 with 8 Dunkins, 6 Subways, 2 each of McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, and Starbucks, and even 2 Home Depots. Even had 2 Arby's and there were 2 Friendly's for a while within a half mile of each other.  Another city near me has 3 Stop & Shops.

[Rothman]

On a side note, I wonder if confederate flags are flown out there?

There are idiots flying Confederate Battle Flags here in the Capital Region of NY.  Somehow, that flag has become a symbol of just general...rebellion, I suppose (which means...shouldn't we throw them in jail?), and by "rebellion" I mean "stupidity."  At least MO was essentially a border state.  Flying it in NY?  That should qualify you for sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on.

When I see people in NY and PA I think racist white supremacists types. In FL, VA or any other former Confederate state I think heritage and history. ( no comments on FL is not the South. My ancestors fought for confederacy with Florida Company)

I dunno.  When I see it flown in the South, I suppose I just see it as being flown out of -- for lack of a better word -- ignorance.  People flying it out of a sense of some sort of generic "Southern Pride" without thinking about the actual values that were being fought for under that flag. 

I also have ancestors that fought for the CSA.  I like to give them the credit of them being smart enough for knowing what they were actually fighting for given how smart their descendants are.

[jwolfer]

On a side note, I wonder if confederate flags are flown out there?

There are idiots flying Confederate Battle Flags here in the Capital Region of NY.  Somehow, that flag has become a symbol of just general...rebellion, I suppose (which means...shouldn't we throw them in jail?), and by "rebellion" I mean "stupidity."  At least MO was essentially a border state.  Flying it in NY?  That should qualify you for sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on.

When I see people in NY and PA I think racist white supremacists types. In FL, VA or any other former Confederate state I think heritage and history. ( no comments on FL is not the South. My ancestors fought for confederacy with Florida Company)

I dunno.  When I see it flown in the South, I suppose I just see it as being flown out of -- for lack of a better word -- ignorance.  People flying it out of a sense of some sort of generic "Southern Pride" without thinking about the actual values that were being fought for under that flag. 

I also have ancestors that fought for the CSA.  I like to give them the credit of them being smart enough for knowing what they were actually fighting for given how smart their descendants are.

You can't say ignorance.. It's hard to judge 150+ years ago with today's outlook on the world.. The victors write the history.. People like to think the union fought on the noble cause.. But look at the writings of Lincoln, grant etc.. They were downright racist.  Like any war there was many factors. Slavery being one..

And if you want to judge the South for having slaves, then you have to judge New England for actually running the ships from Africa to the Americas. 

People are wanting to erase the Confederacy from history.

[formulanone]

I would have guessed someplace like Burlington VT as the whitest city

Judging solely on my week-long visit and by the side comments spouted (from the personnel I was training) each time they saw a non-white person, I'd say...yes.

Also, perhaps chicken sandwiches aren't really as popular in the Northeast? Maybe CFA actually did a little research and field testing? On the other hand, it's kind of average food, but they're friendly and courteous. It's rare to get that in fast-food places.

I could list hundreds of reasons most national, regional, or local places do things to lose my dollar, but then I'd have nothing to buy.

[roadman65]

I see this thread being locked soon.  However I am amazed with the fact a major flame war has not yet started within the first 50 posts.  Now its getting here.  Just like the Denali thread its getting into political waters.

Most of all I think this thread is getting too old already.

[empirestate]

I would have guessed someplace like Burlington VT as the whitest city

Judging solely on my week-long visit and by the side comments spouted (from the personnel I was training) each time they saw a non-white person, I'd say...yes.

Springfield's demographics are finally recovering, and it appears they did surpass Burlington in the last census for black population. Burlington's also a rather smaller city; certainly, below a certain size threshold, you're likely to find many places whose black population is negligible.


iPhone

[Buffaboy]

On a side note, I wonder if confederate flags are flown out there?

There are idiots flying Confederate Battle Flags here in the Capital Region of NY.  Somehow, that flag has become a symbol of just general...rebellion, I suppose (which means...shouldn't we throw them in jail?), and by "rebellion" I mean "stupidity."  At least MO was essentially a border state.  Flying it in NY?  That should qualify you for sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on.

When I see people in NY and PA I think racist white supremacists types. In FL, VA or any other former Confederate state I think heritage and history. ( no comments on FL is not the South. My ancestors fought for confederacy with Florida Company)

I dunno.  When I see it flown in the South, I suppose I just see it as being flown out of -- for lack of a better word -- ignorance.  People flying it out of a sense of some sort of generic "Southern Pride" without thinking about the actual values that were being fought for under that flag. 

I also have ancestors that fought for the CSA.  I like to give them the credit of them being smart enough for knowing what they were actually fighting for given how smart their descendants are.

I'm a minority (don't care to specify but I would be most offended by the flag), so when I see it, I take into consideration that they could be just remembering their ancestors, but at the same time, I can't get over seeing it in movies like Glory or something, along with the hoods and the other stuff.

Actually back to the topic as this is a good segway, I once read this http://newsone.com/2780635/black-urban-legends-chick-fil-a-racist-against-blacks/ and thought it was real, but it wasn't. That would've been the last straw.

[Rothman]

People are wanting to erase the Confederacy from history.

Anything but.  In fact, people are wanting to keep it in history so we don't forget the racism and slavery it condoned.

[jwolfer]

People are wanting to erase the Confederacy from history.

Anything but.  In fact, people are wanting to keep it in history so we don't forget the racism and slavery it condoned.

Racism is not only in the South.. Bussing in Boston? Levitttown NY did not allow black people to buy homes. Some of the most horribly racist people I have met are from the Northeast

Again the victors write the history. Don't imply  the rest of the US has no racism.

[Pete from Boston]

On a side note, I wonder if confederate flags are flown out there?

There are idiots flying Confederate Battle Flags here in the Capital Region of NY.  Somehow, that flag has become a symbol of just general...rebellion, I suppose (which means...shouldn't we throw them in jail?), and by "rebellion" I mean "stupidity."  At least MO was essentially a border state.  Flying it in NY?  That should qualify you for sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on.

When I see people in NY and PA I think racist white supremacists types. In FL, VA or any other former Confederate state I think heritage and history. ( no comments on FL is not the South. My ancestors fought for confederacy with Florida Company)

I dunno.  When I see it flown in the South, I suppose I just see it as being flown out of -- for lack of a better word -- ignorance.  People flying it out of a sense of some sort of generic "Southern Pride" without thinking about the actual values that were being fought for under that flag. 

I also have ancestors that fought for the CSA.  I like to give them the credit of them being smart enough for knowing what they were actually fighting for given how smart their descendants are.

You can't say ignorance.. It's hard to judge 150+ years ago with today's outlook on the world.. The victors write the history.. People like to think the union fought on the noble cause.. But look at the writings of Lincoln, grant etc.. They were downright racist.  Like any war there was many factors. Slavery being one..

And if you want to judge the South for having slaves, then you have to judge New England for actually running the ships from Africa to the Americas. 

Why not?  Many of us in New England have little problem casting a critical eye on the manipulative behavior of the early European adventurers and settlers toward the native population here.  I don't know anyone that would in the same breath defend the slave trade.

People are wanting to erase the Confederacy from history.

Nonsense.  People are wanting to stop celebrating a government that existed to preserve the use of human beings as livestock and a subsequent century of codified second-class citizenship for those same people.

[jwolfer]

On a side note, I wonder if confederate flags are flown out there?

There are idiots flying Confederate Battle Flags here in the Capital Region of NY.  Somehow, that flag has become a symbol of just general...rebellion, I suppose (which means...shouldn't we throw them in jail?), and by "rebellion" I mean "stupidity."  At least MO was essentially a border state.  Flying it in NY?  That should qualify you for sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on.

When I see people in NY and PA I think racist white supremacists types. In FL, VA or any other former Confederate state I think heritage and history. ( no comments on FL is not the South. My ancestors fought for confederacy with Florida Company)

I dunno.  When I see it flown in the South, I suppose I just see it as being flown out of -- for lack of a better word -- ignorance.  People flying it out of a sense of some sort of generic "Southern Pride" without thinking about the actual values that were being fought for under that flag. 

I also have ancestors that fought for the CSA.  I like to give them the credit of them being smart enough for knowing what they were actually fighting for given how smart their descendants are.

You can't say ignorance.. It's hard to judge 150+ years ago with today's outlook on the world.. The victors write the history.. People like to think the union fought on the noble cause.. But look at the writings of Lincoln, grant etc.. They were downright racist.  Like any war there was many factors. Slavery being one..

And if you want to judge the South for having slaves, then you have to judge New England for actually running the ships from Africa to the Americas. 

Why not?  Many of us in New England have little problem casting a critical eye on the manipulative behavior of the early European adventurers and settlers toward the native population here.  I don't know anyone that would in the same breath defend the slave trade.

People are wanting to erase the Confederacy from history.

Nonsense.  People are wanting to stop celebrating a government that existed to preserve the use of human beings as livestock and a subsequent century of codified second-class citizenship for those same people.

The ships that brought the slaves were from places like New Bedford. Not just early exlplorers. New Englanders have this smug attitude about the South and race relations and everything else for that matter. We get lectures about lack of diversity from people living lilly white Vermont.

No one defends slavery it is the "original sin" ifyou will of this country.  But the reasons behind the civil war are more nuanced that a bunch of evil southern white folks wanting their slaves and the noble people from up north wanting equality for all... It much more complex. The New England textile mills had no problem with using cheap cotton from slave labor to make cloth and clothing to sell to give an example. The entire country bears blame for slavery.

But what do I know I am just some backwards hayseed I don't have no sophistication like Boston folks do.. Come down here and learn us somethin'

[1995hoo]

People are wanting to erase the Confederacy from history.

Anything but.  In fact, people are wanting to keep it in history so we don't forget the racism and slavery it condoned.

Racism is not only in the South.. Bussing in Boston? Levitttown NY did not allow black people to buy homes. Some of the most horribly racist people I have met are from the Northeast

Again the victors write the history. Don't imply  the rest of the US has no racism.

How about the parade of tweets from Boston Bruins fans after Joel Ward scored in overtime of Game 7 to eliminate them in 2012? Don't open the link at work due to a certain impolite word sometimes used to refer to black people.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2012/04/capitals-joel-ward-scores-game-7-overtime-winner-bruins-fans-unleash-n-word-barrage-on-twitter/

[empirestate]

We're just gonna hit all the hot buttons in this one, aren't we?

(It's true, though...I always say the worst thing to happen to Boston's image was the desegregation of the South, because it brought into focus the more veiled form of racism that was present there.)


iPhone

[Pete from Boston]

On a side note, I wonder if confederate flags are flown out there?

There are idiots flying Confederate Battle Flags here in the Capital Region of NY.  Somehow, that flag has become a symbol of just general...rebellion, I suppose (which means...shouldn't we throw them in jail?), and by "rebellion" I mean "stupidity."  At least MO was essentially a border state.  Flying it in NY?  That should qualify you for sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on.

When I see people in NY and PA I think racist white supremacists types. In FL, VA or any other former Confederate state I think heritage and history. ( no comments on FL is not the South. My ancestors fought for confederacy with Florida Company)

I dunno.  When I see it flown in the South, I suppose I just see it as being flown out of -- for lack of a better word -- ignorance.  People flying it out of a sense of some sort of generic "Southern Pride" without thinking about the actual values that were being fought for under that flag. 

I also have ancestors that fought for the CSA.  I like to give them the credit of them being smart enough for knowing what they were actually fighting for given how smart their descendants are.

You can't say ignorance.. It's hard to judge 150+ years ago with today's outlook on the world.. The victors write the history.. People like to think the union fought on the noble cause.. But look at the writings of Lincoln, grant etc.. They were downright racist.  Like any war there was many factors. Slavery being one..

And if you want to judge the South for having slaves, then you have to judge New England for actually running the ships from Africa to the Americas. 

Why not?  Many of us in New England have little problem casting a critical eye on the manipulative behavior of the early European adventurers and settlers toward the native population here.  I don't know anyone that would in the same breath defend the slave trade.

People are wanting to erase the Confederacy from history.

Nonsense.  People are wanting to stop celebrating a government that existed to preserve the use of human beings as livestock and a subsequent century of codified second-class citizenship for those same people.

The ships that brought the slaves were from places like New Bedford. Not just early exlplorers. New Englanders have this smug attitude about the South and race relations and everything else for that matter. We get lectures about lack of diversity from people living lilly white Vermont.

No one defends slavery it is the "original sin" ifyou will of this country.  But the reasons behind the civil war are more nuanced that a bunch of evil southern white folks wanting their slaves and the noble people from up north wanting equality for all... It much more complex. The New England textile mills had no problem with using cheap cotton from slave labor to make cloth and clothing to sell to give an example. The entire country bears blame for slavery.

But what do I know I am just some backwards hayseed I don't have no sophistication like Boston folks do.. Come down here and learn us somethin'

You seem to be approaching this with a chip on your shoulder already, and I can't help you there.  Nobody is calling you a hayseed.  You are the one that is turning this personal.

You don't want to believe me when I say that just as there are people here that acknowledge the New England role in the depredations against natives, we are also well aware of the triangle trade and are not attempting to rewrite that history.  Please at least note that in another thread about the acceptance of refugee migrants in Europe, I was careful to note that most Northerners did not want emancipated blacks here, if at all.  The Emancipation Proclamation was not the product of overwhelming popular sentiment in the North.  It was the result of careful political calculation by President Lincoln despite its unpopularity.

This does not change what the Confederacy and its flag mean to the descendants of slaves, nor does the assertion, even if true, that the entire country bears responsibility for slavery.

What I do not understand is why people take personally attacks on a flag that represented stealing the basic human rights of generations of slaves, while simultaneously questioning why others take that ugly association personally.

[Buffaboy]

Why do I have to take the blame for spawning this potential mess .