Which state has the highest number of non-Interstate freeways? At least I know that California has many, but does it have most? Which other states have also many, and which have fewest? Also, are there any states that do not number exits on such freeways?
I believe it's California simply because it's the largest state by population. Florida also ranks up there, but Florida tends to do all-or-nothing for a given route, while California likes its short freeway segments.
We also have several in Massachusetts. Although I'd argue Texas is probably up there also.
It would be nice that a table showing number of non-Interstate freeways by state would be added to AARoads Wiki.
Undoubtedly California. Almost entire Fresno freeway network consists of state routes (and one relinquished stub of US 99). The Central Valley has a ton of random freeways which spawn in and out of existence from more conventional highways. All the big metro areas are strewn with state route freeways.
Michigan (parts and entireties):
M: 5, 6, 8, 10, Connector 13, 14, 39, 47, 53, 59, 60
(I don't count 37 and 66 because their freeway segments are entirely concurrent with Interstates. The short freeway segments of 25, 55, 85, and 153 are essentially just long ramps.)
US: 10, 23, 31, 127, 131
Ohio (only part of most of these routes are a freeway, and excluding concurrencies with interstates):
US: 20, 22, 23, 24, 30, 33, 35, 50, 52, 62, 422
SR: 2, 4, 7, 8, 10, 11, 16, 32, 79, 82, 104, 126, 129, 161, 315, 562, 711, 823, 844
California
Included: US Routes, state extensions of Interstate routes
Excluded: routes with ~1-mile segments with one exit
Sure I missed some!
Entirely (or very nearly) freeway
11, 15, 22, 24, 51, 55, 57, 60, 71, 73, 85, 87, 91, 110, 125, 134, 163, 170, 210, 217, 237, 241, 242, 244, 259, 261, 905
Significant portions are freeway
1, 4, 13, 14, 17, 23, 41, 47, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 65, 67, 76, 77, 78, 92, 94, 99, 101, 113, 118, 126, 133, 204
Some portions are freeway
2, 12, 18, 33, 37, 44, 63, 68, 70, 75, 84, 90, 108, 132, 160, 168, 178, 180, 198, 199, 255, 299, 330, 395
Quote from: DTComposer on September 23, 2023, 01:01:05 PM
California
Included: US Routes, state extensions of Interstate routes
Excluded: routes with ~1-mile segments with one exit
Sure I missed some!
Entirely (or very nearly) freeway
11, 15, 22, 24, 51, 55, 57, 60, 71, 73, 85, 87, 91, 110, 125, 134, 163, 170, 210, 217, 237, 241, 242, 261, 905
Significant portions are freeway
4, 13, 14, 17, 23, 41, 47, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 65, 67, 76, 78, 92, 94, 99, 101, 113, 118, 126, 133
Some portions are freeway
1, 2, 12, 33, 37, 70, 84, 90, 132, 160, 168, 178, 180, 198, 299, 330
Some others with freeway segments:
68 (West of Salinas and Monterey)
204 (North of downtown Bakersfield)
77 (The whole thing)
75 (The Coronado Bridge)
18 if you count what is signed "as freeway" north of San Bernardino.
63 multiplexes 198 in Visalia on a freeway grade.
44 (The western terminus in Redding)
255 (the one lane freeway portion coming out of Eureka)
108 (the one lane freeway in Sonora)
Connecticut:
Entirely freeway (3): 11, 40, 78 -- leaving CT 40 as the state's only completed end-to-end state multilane freeway
Substantial freeway (9): 2, 2A, 3, 8, 9, 15, 20, 25, 72
A Tiny Bit O'Freeway (7 or 8): 17, 32, (34 - no longer signed there), 66, 184, 187/189, 190, 349
Unsigned, but more than a long ramp (3): 571, 695, 796
Unbuilt: 4, 10, 22, 35/110, 42, 58, 68, 71, 73, 79, 82, 83, 137, 159, 313 (some numbers not confirmed; following alignment on planning maps)
I imagine Pennsylvania is up there on this list, have a lot of freeways here that are US and state routes. Also got two freeways that are quadrant routes (Airport Connector and President Biden Expressway).
Florida has at least 20...
Turnpike (91), Extension (821), 112, 408, 417, 429, 528, 589, 618, 836, 869, 874
Stubby ones: 451, 453, 970, 878
826 has a non-freeway section, but about 20 miles of it is entirely freeway/limited access.
Jacksonville has US 1 Alternate for a few miles. FL 9B is tipped to be Future I-795, but still unposted with an Interstate shield.
Southern Boulevard (FL 80/US 441/98) has a few grade separations in a row, but also some driveway access. Collier County Road 886 is a similar example.
Short sections of 414, 924, and 934 (?) are limited-access for a few exits.
US 1 between Florida City and Key Largo, acts like a Super-2, not quite fitting the bill. 293 is another Super-2 facility, but with no hard divider. Similarly, 538?
Loads of random grade separations that are vaguely a mile long apiece between access points, but I wouldn't count those.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 23, 2023, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on September 23, 2023, 01:01:05 PM
California
Included: US Routes, state extensions of Interstate routes
Excluded: routes with ~1-mile segments with one exit
Sure I missed some!
Entirely (or very nearly) freeway
11, 15, 22, 24, 51, 55, 57, 60, 71, 73, 85, 87, 91, 110, 125, 134, 163, 170, 210, 217, 237, 241, 242, 261, 905
Significant portions are freeway
4, 13, 14, 17, 23, 41, 47, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 65, 67, 76, 78, 92, 94, 99, 101, 113, 118, 126, 133
Some portions are freeway
1, 2, 12, 33, 37, 70, 84, 90, 132, 160, 168, 178, 180, 198, 299, 330
Some others with freeway segments:
68 (West of Salinas and Monterey)
204 (North of downtown Bakersfield)
77 (The whole thing)
75 (The Coronado Bridge)
18 if you count what is signed "as freeway" north of San Bernardino.
63 multiplexes 198 in Visalia on a freeway grade.
44 (The western terminus in Redding)
255 (the one lane freeway portion coming out of Eureka)
108 (the one lane freeway in Sonora)
Even US 395 has a short freeway section north of Reno. The CA 70 junction has "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" banners as well (just before it downgrades into Lassen county). There's also the segment with one exit near Crowley Lake in Mono county.
MN (doesn't count any Interstate duplexes):
Entirely:
TH 77, TH 100, TH 610
Mostly:
TH 36, TH 62, TH 101, TH 280
Significant freeway segments:
US 10, US 12, US 14, US 52, US 61, US 169, US 212, TH 5, TH 60
Scattered freeway-grade bypass sections:
US 2, US 71, TH 23
I don't count the US 63 Rochester bypass since that was a recent rerouting.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on September 23, 2023, 05:17:31 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 23, 2023, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on September 23, 2023, 01:01:05 PM
California
Included: US Routes, state extensions of Interstate routes
Excluded: routes with ~1-mile segments with one exit
Sure I missed some!
Entirely (or very nearly) freeway
11, 15, 22, 24, 51, 55, 57, 60, 71, 73, 85, 87, 91, 110, 125, 134, 163, 170, 210, 217, 237, 241, 242, 261, 905
Significant portions are freeway
4, 13, 14, 17, 23, 41, 47, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 65, 67, 76, 78, 92, 94, 99, 101, 113, 118, 126, 133
Some portions are freeway
1, 2, 12, 33, 37, 70, 84, 90, 132, 160, 168, 178, 180, 198, 299, 330
Some others with freeway segments:
68 (West of Salinas and Monterey)
204 (North of downtown Bakersfield)
77 (The whole thing)
75 (The Coronado Bridge)
18 if you count what is signed "as freeway" north of San Bernardino.
63 multiplexes 198 in Visalia on a freeway grade.
44 (The western terminus in Redding)
255 (the one lane freeway portion coming out of Eureka)
108 (the one lane freeway in Sonora)
Even US 395 has a short freeway section north of Reno. The CA 70 junction has "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" banners as well (just before it downgrades into Lassen county). There's also the segment with one exit near Crowley Lake in Mono county.
If we are counting US Routes then 101, 50 and 199 would need to be on the list. I forgot CA 244 on my earlier post. There are some non-state owned freeway segments out there also like Alfred Harrell Highway, Pacific Highway in San Diego and part of Golden State Boulevard in Fresno.
Just a few in Nevada (with some approximate lengths):
US 95 north (west) of I-15 in Las Vegas (23 miles)
US 395 north of I-80 from Reno to the California border (16 miles)
SR 171, the airport connector from I-215 to the entrance to the tunnels under the airport (less than 1 mile)
SR 613, Summerlin Parkway (6 miles)
Clark County Route 215 (37 miles)
The exits on SR 171 and SR 613 are not numbered; the rest of those freeways have numbered exits.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 23, 2023, 01:31:23 PMQuote from: DTComposer on September 23, 2023, 01:01:05 PM
California
Included: US Routes, state extensions of Interstate routes
Excluded: routes with ~1-mile segments with one exit
Sure I missed some!
Entirely (or very nearly) freeway
11, 15, 22, 24, 51, 55, 57, 60, 71, 73, 85, 87, 91, 110, 125, 134, 163, 170, 210, 217, 237, 241, 242, 261, 905
Significant portions are freeway
4, 13, 14, 17, 23, 41, 47, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 65, 67, 76, 78, 92, 94, 99, 101, 113, 118, 126, 133
Some portions are freeway
1, 2, 12, 33, 37, 70, 84, 90, 132, 160, 168, 178, 180, 198, 299, 330
Some others with freeway segments:
68 (West of Salinas and Monterey)
204 (North of downtown Bakersfield)
77 (The whole thing)
75 (The Coronado Bridge)
18 if you count what is signed "as freeway" north of San Bernardino.
63 multiplexes 198 in Visalia on a freeway grade.
44 (The western terminus in Redding)
255 (the one lane freeway portion coming out of Eureka)
108 (the one lane freeway in Sonora)
29 Near Downtown Napa has a segment that is a freeway.
244 entirely a freeway but its viewed by locals as a ramp for the CA-51 and I-80 Interchange.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 23, 2023, 01:31:23 PM
Some others with freeway segments:
68 (West of Salinas and Monterey)
204 (North of downtown Bakersfield)
77 (The whole thing)
These fell into my "super-short-only-one-or-two-exit" category, but am adding them for completeness. Also adding 35 and 259.
Quote
75 (The Coronado Bridge)
18 if you count what is signed "as freeway" north of San Bernardino.
Forgot about 18, I think because it's undivided - but the 18/138 interchange has always been one of my favorites from a design standpoint.
Quote
63 multiplexes 198 in Visalia on a freeway grade.
44 (The western terminus in Redding)
255 (the one lane freeway portion coming out of Eureka)
108 (the one lane freeway in Sonora)
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on September 23, 2023, 05:17:31 PM
Even US 395 has a short freeway section north of Reno. The CA 70 junction has "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" banners as well (just before it downgrades into Lassen county). There's also the segment with one exit near Crowley Lake in Mono county.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on September 23, 2023, 05:17:31 PM
If we are counting US Routes then 101, 50 and 199 would need to be on the list. I forgot CA 244 on my earlier post. There are some non-state owned freeway segments out there also like Alfred Harrell Highway, Pacific Highway in San Diego and part of Golden State Boulevard in Fresno.
50 and 101 were on the list, forgot about 199. I didn't include 244 since it's functionally a ramp with no additional exits.
I'll go back and add non-state-owned freeways. Could also include Central Expressway in Santa Clara/Sunnyvale, La Cienega Boulevard in Los Angeles.
So...where's the summary of this thread to answer the question?
Indiana-
U.S.: 20, 24, 31 (have exit numbers between Indy and South Bend), 41, 50
SR: 23, 37, 641, 912 (have exit numbers)
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 23, 2023, 09:22:10 AM
Also, are there any states that do not number exits on such freeways?
I think numbering exits on non-interstate freeways seems to be the exception in most states. Iowa is the only state I am aware of that consistently numbers the exits for almost all freeway segments.
As for listing other states:
IllinoisFull Freeway* IL 6 (has exit numbers)
* IL 255 (has exit numbers)
* IL 390 (has exit numbers)
Freeway segments* US 20 around Rockford and again around Freeport (no exit numbers)
* US 34 around Galesburg (no exit numbers)
* US 41, multiple segments in Chicagoland (no exit numbers)
* US 50 near the Indiana border (no exit numbers)
* US 51 south of I-72 in the Decatur area (no exit numbers)
* US 67 around Jacksonville (no exit numbers)
* IL 38 (no exit numbers)
* IL 53 (no exit numbers)
* IL 83 (no exit numbers)
* IL 92 in Moline (no exit numbers)
* IL 137/the Amstutz in Waukegan (no exit numbers)
* IL 336 Super-2 segment around Macomb) (no exit numbers)
* IL 394 (no exit numbers)
MissouriFull Freeways* MO 364 (has exit numbers)
* MO 370 (has exit numbers)
Freeway Segments* US 36 with multiple segments (no exit numbers)
* US 50 with segments around Jefferson City and into the KC area (no exit numbers)
* US 54 with multiple segments (no exit numbers)
* US 60 with multiple segments (no exit numbers)
* US 61 with multiple segments (no exit numbers, though I thought there was once an Exit 269 at I-70)
* US 65 with multiple segments (no exit numbers but does have enhanced mile markers on Springfield area and Branson area segments)
* US 63 with multiple segments (no exit numbers)
* US 67 with multiple segments (no exit numbers)
* US 71 segments in the KC area (no exit numbers)
* US 169 in the KC area (no exit numbers)
* MO 5/MO 7 around Camden (no exit numbers)
* MO 9 in the KC area (no exit numbers)
* MO 13 near Lexington and a few bypasses between Clinton and Springfield (no exit numbers)
* MO 21 in Jefferson County (no exit numbers but does have enhanced mile markers)
* MO 76/former MO 465 section (no exit numbers)
* MO 141 with a couple short segments in the St. Louis area (no exit numbers)
* MO 152 in the KC area (no exit numbers)
* MO 179 (short segment around Jefferson City (no exit numbers)
* MO 210 in the KC area (no exit numbers)
* MO 249 in the Joplin area (no exit numbers)
* MO 360 in the Springfield area (no exit numbers)
* MO 367 in the St. Louis area (no exit numbers)
* MO 752 for a very short segment around St. Joseph (no exit numbers)
* Forest Park Parkway through Clayton (no exit numbers)
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 23, 2023, 05:54:25 PM
MN (doesn't count any Interstate duplexes):
Entirely:
TH 77, TH 100, TH 610
Mostly:
TH 36, TH 62, TH 101, TH 280
Significant freeway segments:
US 10, US 12, US 14, US 52, US 61, US 169, US 212, TH 5, TH 60
Scattered freeway-grade bypass sections:
US 2, US 71, TH 23
I don't count the US 63 Rochester bypass since that was a recent rerouting.
But shouldn't US 63 south of US 52 count as freeway? There's certainly some exits there.
Prior to the arrival of I-69 and the Kentucky congressional delegation's desire to put interstate numbers on Kentucky's parkways, we had plenty. Then throw in the Owensboro bypass, the southern and western portions of New Circle Road in Lexington, the KY 841 portion of the Jefferson Gene Snyder Freeway, and a few short segments of US 23.
Virginia's map of freeway portions (blue) on roads that are otherwise four-lane surface arterials (red) is interesting. Little short segments of bypasses around certain towns are shown as freeways.
Quote from: Revive 755 on September 23, 2023, 10:18:58 PMQuote from: Poiponen13 on September 23, 2023, 09:22:10 AMAlso, are there any states that do not number exits on such freeways?
I think numbering exits on non-interstate freeways seems to be the exception in most states. Iowa is the only state I am aware of that consistently numbers the exits for almost all freeway segments.
While the
MUTCD has mandated exit numbering on non-Interstate freeways as of the 2009 edition, there has indeed been little progress nationwide toward compliance.
Besides Iowa, California numbers exits on nearly all of its freeways. SR 33 near Ventura is a rare (possibly unique) exception.
Kansas does not number exits on
any non-Interstate freeways.
The following state and US highways have freeway segments:
* US 24 (north Topeka)
* US 36 (Hiawatha-Highland) (Super Two only)
* US 36 (Missouri River-Wathena)
* US 50 (Hutchinson)
* US 54/US 400 (Cunningham bypass)
* US 54/US 400 (Garden Plain-Kingman)
* US 54/US 400 (Wichita-Andover) (known locally as Kellogg Avenue)
* US 54/US 400 (Augusta-Leon)
* US 59 (Ottawa-Lawrence)
* US 69 (Shawnee Mission-Fort Scott)
* US 69 (18th Street Expressway)
* US 75 (south Topeka)
* US 75 (north Topeka)
* US 81 (Salina-Minneapolis)
* US 169 (Humboldt-Chanute) (Super Two only)
* US 169/K-7 (Spring Hill-Osawatomie)
* K-4 (Topeka, known as Oakland Expressway) (Super Two only)
* K-5 (I-635-Fairfax)
* K-7 (near Kansas River-Olathe)
* K-7 (Bonner Springs)
* K-10 (west Lawrence) (Super Two only)
* K-10 (Lawrence-Shawnee Mission) (Super Two only west of US 59)
* K-14/K-96 (Hutchinson-Sterling, the segment near Hutchinson known as the Bob Dole Bypass) (Super Two only)
* K-18 (I-70-Manhattan)
* K-61 (Hutchinson; however, the length known locally as "Ken Kennedy Freeway" is
not a freeway)
* K-61 (Inman bypass)
* K-61 (McPherson south bypass)
* K-96 (northwest Wichita; State Fair Freeway)
* K-96 (northeast Wichita; Northeast Freeway)
* K-254 (Wichita)
This does not include Interstate overlaps or isolated grade separations, of which there are many in Kansas. No state or US route is developed to freeway standard throughout its entire length.
All of the Interstates other than the Turnpike have prohibition signs (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.712735,-97.3989818,3a,15y,255.31h,90.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sniZVca5he2WARGNarZfkLw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) that are functionally equivalent to the start-of-motorway ("chopsticks") signs used in European countries. Among the non-Interstate freeways, only K-10 (Lawrence-Shawnee Mission) and US 81 (Salina-Minneapolis) have them. The Turnpike uses just a tiny "Pedestrians Prohibited" sign.
Here is a non-exhaustive list for Colorado:
- US 6, 6th Avenue Freeway (10 miles)
- US 24 in Colorado Springs (2 miles)
- US 36, Denver-Boulder Turnpike (20 miles)
- US 285 in Denver (11 miles)
- CO 21, Powers Boulevard (6 miles)
- CO 47, César Chávez Memorial Highway (3 miles)
- CO 58, Golden Freeway (5 miles)
- CO 115 at Fort Carson (3 miles)
- CO 470 (27 miles)
- E-470 (47 miles)
- Northwest Parkway (8 miles)
- Peña Boulevard (11 miles)
- South Academy Boulevard I-25 to MEP Pkwy (2 miles)
Of course, short limited-access segments and glorified ramps were not included.
The only freeways on this list with exit numbers are the 470 loop, CO 21, and the spurs into Golden and DIA. Powers Boulevard is strange because its exit numbers run parallel to I-25's. The plan might be to reroute I-25 around the city.
For Utah...
Full freeways:
- SR 67 (Legacy Parkway)
- SR 177 (West Davis Highway - to be opened next year)
4+ lane freeway segments:
- US 6, Carbonville Rd to SR 55
- US 40: I-80 to SR 32
- US 89: I-15 to I-84
- US 91: east of Brigham City to Mantua
- SR 7 (Southern Parkway): I-15 to Desert Canyons Parkway
- SR 9, I-15 to Old Highway 91
- SR 85 (Mountain View), 3500 South to SR 201
- SR 154 (Bangerter Highway): I-15 to 2700 West, 13400 South to 9800 South, 9800 South to 4700 South, California Ave to SLC Intl Airport
- SR 201, 7200 West to I-15/80
Super 2 freeway segments:
- US 6, Price bypass
- SR 7, the remainder (Desert Canyons Parkway to SR 9)
- SR 92, Lehi commuter lanes (I-15 to Highland Blvd)
Quote from: Revive 755 on September 23, 2023, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 23, 2023, 09:22:10 AM
Also, are there any states that do not number exits on such freeways?
I think numbering exits on non-interstate freeways seems to be the exception in most states. Iowa is the only state I am aware of that consistently numbers the exits for almost all freeway segments.
Utah also does. In the list above, the only routes without posted exit numbers are SR 92 and SR 9.
As a matter of fact, there are almost no truly unnumbered exits in Utah. Even if it doesn't have a posted number, almost every grade-separated interchange in the state has an internal number, including one-off interchanges on otherwise at-grade roads.
Quote from: DTComposer on September 23, 2023, 07:37:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 23, 2023, 01:31:23 PM
Some others with freeway segments:
68 (West of Salinas and Monterey)
204 (North of downtown Bakersfield)
77 (The whole thing)
These fell into my "super-short-only-one-or-two-exit" category, but am adding them for completeness. Also adding 35 and 259.
Quote
75 (The Coronado Bridge)
18 if you count what is signed "as freeway" north of San Bernardino.
Forgot about 18, I think because it's undivided - but the 18/138 interchange has always been one of my favorites from a design standpoint.
Quote
63 multiplexes 198 in Visalia on a freeway grade.
44 (The western terminus in Redding)
255 (the one lane freeway portion coming out of Eureka)
108 (the one lane freeway in Sonora)
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on September 23, 2023, 05:17:31 PM
Even US 395 has a short freeway section north of Reno. The CA 70 junction has "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" banners as well (just before it downgrades into Lassen county). There's also the segment with one exit near Crowley Lake in Mono county.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on September 23, 2023, 05:17:31 PM
If we are counting US Routes then 101, 50 and 199 would need to be on the list. I forgot CA 244 on my earlier post. There are some non-state owned freeway segments out there also like Alfred Harrell Highway, Pacific Highway in San Diego and part of Golden State Boulevard in Fresno.
50 and 101 were on the list, forgot about 199. I didn't include 244 since it's functionally a ramp with no additional exits.
I'll go back and add non-state-owned freeways. Could also include Central Expressway in Santa Clara/Sunnyvale, La Cienega Boulevard in Los Angeles.
CA 154 has one freeway exit in Santa Barbara as well, if we want to add that to the list.
Quote from: Revive 755 on September 23, 2023, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 23, 2023, 09:22:10 AM
Also, are there any states that do not number exits on such freeways?
I think numbering exits on non-interstate freeways seems to be the exception in most states. Iowa is the only state I am aware of that consistently numbers the exits for almost all freeway segments.
Ohio has been adding exit numbers to its freeways and expressways over the past decade. I think a majority of the exits on non-interstate freeways in the state have exit numbers now, though some notable ones without exit numbers yet include US 35 in Dayton and a portion of the OH 161/16 freeway east of Columbus.
Tennessee has a decent number of them, though they're mostly short, but each is pretty important.
In numerical order, these routes are all freeway or have freeway segments: TN 22, US 23, US 27, US 31E, US 43, US 45E, US 51, TN 60, US 64, TN 71, US 78, TN 93, TN 109, TN 111, US 129, TN 153, TN 155, TN 158, TN 176, TN 300, TN 319, US 321, TN 385, TN 386, and TN 396. Also Plough Blvd. and Sam Cooper Blvd in Memphis.
South Carolina only has eight: US 17, SC 22, SC 30, SC 31, Business I-85, SC 277, US 278, and US 501.
Quote from: DTComposer on September 23, 2023, 07:37:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 23, 2023, 01:31:23 PM
Some others with freeway segments:
68 (West of Salinas and Monterey)
204 (North of downtown Bakersfield)
77 (The whole thing)
These fell into my "super-short-only-one-or-two-exit" category, but am adding them for completeness. Also adding 35 and 259.
262 would then also fit as it starts out as a brief freeway between I-880 and Warm Springs (which I think is longer than the entirety of Route 77)
Quote from: DTComposer on September 23, 2023, 07:37:10 PM
I'll go back and add non-state-owned freeways. Could also include Central Expressway in Santa Clara/Sunnyvale, La Cienega Boulevard in Los Angeles.
IIRC, Friars Road has a long enough segment of multiple exits in San Diego to fit (if Central Expressway would be included), specifically west of I-805.
Also in the San Diego area:
Pacific Highway (former US 101 near Lindbergh Field)
Fairmount Avenue Expressway
From Orange County:
Since 261 was mentioned before, the freeway extension of Jamboree Road also could be brought up there (and likewise, Los Patrones Parkway south of 241)
From LA area:
The Colorado Street Freeway spur (former Route 134) off I-5
In WI I count 25 distinct ones . . .
- US-53 portions north of I-94
- US-53 in La Crosse County
- WI-35 in St. Croix County
- WI-64 in St. Croix County
- US-12 in Sauk County
- Madison Beltline
- US-12 in Walworth County
- US-151 northeast of I-39/90/94
- US-18/151 around Verona
- US-14 south of the Beltline to Oregon
- WI-16 in Waukesha County
- WI-23 in Sheboygan County
- WI-26 northeast of Janesville
- WI-30
- WI-441
- WI-172
- WI-119
- WI-54/57 northeast of Green Bay
- US-41/141 north of Green Bay
- WI-29 west of Green Bay
- US-10 west of Appleton
- US-45 northwest of Oshkosh
- WI-29 in the Wausau area
- US-51 north of I-39's northern terminus
- US-51 north of Madison (toes the line of freeway vs. expressway that happens to have no intersections for a few miles)
^^ to be picky, it is WI 172 east of I-41, not a freeway west of I-41.
New York State has to be up there given that non-interstate freeways are called parkways especially in the New York City area.
Quote from: Revive 755 on September 23, 2023, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 23, 2023, 09:22:10 AM
Also, are there any states that do not number exits on such freeways?
I think numbering exits on non-interstate freeways seems to be the exception in most states. Iowa is the only state I am aware of that consistently numbers the exits for almost all freeway segments.
As for listing other states:
Illinois
Full Freeway
* IL 6 (has exit numbers)
* IL 255 (has exit numbers)
* IL 390 (has exit numbers)
Freeway segments
* US 20 around Rockford and again around Freeport (no exit numbers)
* US 34 around Galesburg (no exit numbers)
* US 41, multiple segments in Chicagoland (no exit numbers)
* US 50 near the Indiana border (no exit numbers)
* US 51 south of I-72 in the Decatur area (no exit numbers)
* US 67 around Jacksonville (no exit numbers)
* IL 38 (no exit numbers)
* IL 53 (no exit numbers)
* IL 83 (no exit numbers)
* IL 92 in Moline (no exit numbers)
* IL 137/the Amstutz in Waukegan (no exit numbers)
* IL 336 Super-2 segment around Macomb) (no exit numbers)
* IL 394 (no exit numbers)
US 20 is also a freeway thru Elgin
Also IL 56 when it leaves the Reagan Tollway into Sugar Grove is a short freeway and originally part of the Tollway, unless the RIRO is a DQ, but surely not
Of course, the better part is a number of these non-interstate freeway segments were built to be interstates. US 50 near (and into) Indiana was constructed when that was to be the I-64 routing
US 51 south of Decatur was with an eye to eventually what became I-39
IL 6 was to be either part of a longer freeway up to I-80 that would get the I-shield or also projected to come back to either 74, 474, and/or 155 as a more complete beltway and that would have continued the I-474 designation
LSD and the Amstutz were going to be part of the IL/WI Lakefront Freeway which would have received and I-shield
US 20 in Elgin could yet possibly connect someday to the Elgin-O'Hare Tollway, tho that segment in Elgin would need some improvements to get to I-standard should the Elgin-O'Hare ever graduate from IL 390 to I-390
And IL 53's story has been told plenty of times on this board, but if it could ever be extended north it would probably get either an I-355 extension or an x94 if it hooks back to the Tri-State/I-94 in Lake County, but it seems that vision is basically dead
Quote from: TheStranger on September 24, 2023, 02:53:09 AM
Quote from: DTComposer on September 23, 2023, 07:37:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 23, 2023, 01:31:23 PM
Some others with freeway segments:
68 (West of Salinas and Monterey)
204 (North of downtown Bakersfield)
77 (The whole thing)
These fell into my "super-short-only-one-or-two-exit" category, but am adding them for completeness. Also adding 35 and 259.
262 would then also fit as it starts out as a brief freeway between I-880 and Warm Springs (which I think is longer than the entirety of Route 77)
Quote from: DTComposer on September 23, 2023, 07:37:10 PM
I'll go back and add non-state-owned freeways. Could also include Central Expressway in Santa Clara/Sunnyvale, La Cienega Boulevard in Los Angeles.
IIRC, Friars Road has a long enough segment of multiple exits in San Diego to fit (if Central Expressway would be included), specifically west of I-805.
Also in the San Diego area:
Pacific Highway (former US 101 near Lindbergh Field)
Fairmount Avenue Expressway
From Orange County:
Since 261 was mentioned before, the freeway extension of Jamboree Road also could be brought up there (and likewise, Los Patrones Parkway south of 241)
From LA area:
The Colorado Street Freeway spur (former Route 134) off I-5
Regarding Bakersfield there is another short freeway segment along Manor Street. It was constructed around the same time the western portion of Alfred Harrell Highway was rebuilt to freeway standards.
To address the "which has fewest?" part of the OP's question: Are there any that are dead zero? Wyoming has a little bit of US 20/26 bypassing the north side of Casper and I think that's it. You could also make a case that the mileage of the I-180 "Interstate non-freeway" should be subtracted from that.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 24, 2023, 12:36:15 PM
To address the "which has fewest?" part of the OP's question: Are there any that are dead zero? Wyoming has a little bit of US 20/26 bypassing the north side of Casper and I think that's it. You could also make a case that the mileage of the I-180 "Interstate non-freeway" should be subtracted from that.
Indiana doesn't have that many relative to the number of interstates or other roads they have. Only non-interstate freeways there I can think of are US 31 for about 15 miles north of I-465 (the rest of its route to South Bend is an expressway), the US 20/31 partial loop around South Bend, IN 265 near Louisville (which would probably get signed as I-265 at some point in the future), IN 912 (except the new bridge, which is 2 lanes) and IN 641 in Terre Haute.
I'd assume Georgia also ranks up there given how many (usually short) freeway sections the US routes around the state have, usually as bypasses of cities. Maybe Mississippi as well.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 24, 2023, 12:36:15 PM
To address the "which has fewest?" part of the OP's question: Are there any that are dead zero? Wyoming has a little bit of US 20/26 bypassing the north side of Casper and I think that's it. You could also make a case that the mileage of the I-180 "Interstate non-freeway" should be subtracted from that.
I would've thought Alabama's definitely on the lower side when ranking from most to least for non-interstate freeways, at first. The only ones I'm was aware of are Research Park Boulevard (AL 255) in Huntsville, Memorial Parkway (US 231, US 431, and, briefly, US 72) in Huntsville, Red Mountain Expressway (US 31 and US 280) in Birmingham, and Northern Boulevard (AL 152) between I-65 and James Ferry Road in Montgomery, if you want to count that, which makes for a grand total of four.
However, if we define a "freeway" as being a grade-separated stretch of road or highway with at least two interchanges and no at-grade intersections between them, which I'm using for my definition to include the part of AL 152 (and to not count things like US 72 around Scottsboro), then you can also include part of McFarland Boulevard (US 82) in Tuscaloosa, the parts of US 80 and US 280 in Phenix City running to the GA state line, then that adds an additional three making for seven total non-interstate freeways in Alabama (assuming I ain't missed any others).
Exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways are plus! Which states other than California and Iowa do that?
^^ Wisconsin uses them, but not on every freeway.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 24, 2023, 01:54:35 PM
Exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways are plus! Which states other than California and Iowa do that?
Utah, as I mentioned above. Arizona, Colorado, and Nevada too.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 24, 2023, 12:36:15 PM
To address the "which has fewest?" part of the OP's question: Are there any that are dead zero? Wyoming has a little bit of US 20/26 bypassing the north side of Casper and I think that's it. You could also make a case that the mileage of the I-180 "Interstate non-freeway" should be subtracted from that.
Montana was probably a good case until the recent construction of the Kalispell western bypass. The short freeway segment from I-15 towards downtown Great Falls is unsigned I-315 and I can't think of any other freeways in the state that aren't the three 2dis or I-115.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 24, 2023, 01:54:35 PM
Exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways are plus! Which states other than California and Iowa do that?
Washington, but only sometimes. It's weirdly inconsistent.
Quote from: US 89 on September 24, 2023, 02:11:15 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 24, 2023, 01:54:35 PM
Exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways are plus! Which states other than California and Iowa do that?
Utah, as I mentioned above. Arizona, Colorado, and Nevada too.
Also Oregon. If you're numbering an exit on SR 140 in Klamath Falls (https://maps.app.goo.gl/qn83NohPUCA82g4e9), you're numbering 'em all.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 24, 2023, 01:54:35 PM
Exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways are plus! Which states other than California and Iowa do that?
Add Michigan to the list, for the most part. (The short M-8, M-47, and north-south portion of M-5 are the exceptions.)
Other states that have at least partial exit numbering on non-Interstate freeways include Arkansas, Arizona, Maryland, North Carolina and Texas.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 24, 2023, 03:53:19 PM
Other states that have at least partial exit numbering on non-Interstate freeways include Arkansas, Arizona, Maryland, North Carolina and Texas.
Ohio also had a exit numbers posted at the interchange(s) along US 23 in Delaware, OH, when I visited last year.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2933841,-83.0613038,3a,23.6y,20.95h,94.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2U2EkiszqzA9qbH0wPC98g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3048252,-83.0633023,3a,42.7y,231.43h,98.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBVUmOwzBtJsPgNRDeHQ4yQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Strangely, none of the others along US 23 had them at the time, but it appears they've since posted at least some more...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4581627,-83.0754106,3a,43.6y,1.41h,92.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1zeRVfZpF1bAE9cpCaD4nA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.576283,-83.074188,3a,20.5y,36.54h,90.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syLtClMYhd2qJeeh48uz2qw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5902764,-83.0810217,3a,24.9y,18.19h,89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suCkT2MObUXqgp0xY9FTUTg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Quote from: bing101 on September 24, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
New York State has to be up there given that non-interstate freeways are called parkways especially in the New York City area.
There are plenty of non-interstate freeways that aren't parkways (and a few parkways that aren't freeways).
Quote from: formulanone on September 23, 2023, 05:06:29 PM
Florida has at least 20...
Turnpike (91), Extension (821), 112, 408, 417, 429, 528, 589, 618, 836, 869, 874
Stubby ones: 451, 453, 970, 878
826 has a non-freeway section, but about 20 miles of it is entirely freeway/limited access.
Jacksonville has US 1 Alternate for a few miles. FL 9B is tipped to be Future I-795, but still unposted with an Interstate shield.
Southern Boulevard (FL 80/US 441/98) has a few grade separations in a row, but also some driveway access. Collier County Road 886 is a similar example.
Short sections of 414, 924, and 934 (?) are limited-access for a few exits.
US 1 between Florida City and Key Largo, acts like a Super-2, not quite fitting the bill. 293 is another Super-2 facility, but with no hard divider. Similarly, 538?
Loads of random grade separations that are vaguely a mile long apiece between access points, but I wouldn't count those.
Have the new freeways in Pinellas County near the St. Pete airport been finished and opened to traffic yet? Those will count when they are. Also US 19 has a lengthy freeway stretch in that area, IIRC
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on September 23, 2023, 10:02:31 PM
Indiana-
U.S.: 20, 24, 31 (have exit numbers between Indy and South Bend), 41, 50
SR: 23, 37, 641, 912 (have exit numbers)
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 24, 2023, 12:51:57 PM
Indiana doesn't have that many relative to the number of interstates or other roads they have. Only non-interstate freeways there I can think of are US 31 for about 15 miles north of I-465 (the rest of its route to South Bend is an expressway), the US 20/31 partial loop around South Bend, IN 265 near Louisville (which would probably get signed as I-265 at some point in the future), IN 912 (except the new bridge, which is 2 lanes) and IN 641 in Terre Haute.
I think the Keystone Parkway (not a SR) qualifies too. Also can't forget the 4-mile stretch of the Lloyd Expressway (SR 62/66) that barrels through the heart of Evansville.
Quote from: Rothman on September 23, 2023, 09:08:19 PM
So...where's the summary of this thread to answer the question?
To point out the obvious, that doesn't exist and would be pretty much impossible for one person to compile.
However, if there's user interest, one potential suggestion would be a Travel Mapping page for non-interstate freeways, just like the one we have for 6-lane freeways. That would make it easy to total up both mileage and number of individual routes in each state.
A summary of the thread is impossible to compile? Baloney. Just would take someone time to gather the responses so far.
Richmond Parkway in the Pinole area has an expressway segment that is not done by Caltrans though. Note at one point was proposed to be CA-93.
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2023, 06:55:48 AM
A summary of the thread is impossible to compile? Baloney. Just would take someone time to gather the responses so far.
TM would be easier to compile, more scalable, provide the most accurate and greatest breadth of data, and would be live and more-or-less permanently available.
But alrighty then. Just don't forget all the states no one has answered for yet.
Quote from: webny99 on September 25, 2023, 08:18:24 AM
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2023, 06:55:48 AM
A summary of the thread is impossible to compile? Baloney. Just would take someone time to gather the responses so far.
TM would be easier to compile, more scalable, provide the most accurate and greatest breadth of data, and would be live and more-or-less permanently available.
But alrighty then. Just don't forget all the states no one has answered for yet.
That's getting back to my actual point. Despite the flailings in this thread, when it comes to actually answering the question, no one is really doing so.
Just a hodgepodge, incomplete set of partial answers.
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2023, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: webny99 on September 25, 2023, 08:18:24 AM
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2023, 06:55:48 AM
A summary of the thread is impossible to compile? Baloney. Just would take someone time to gather the responses so far.
TM would be easier to compile, more scalable, provide the most accurate and greatest breadth of data, and would be live and more-or-less permanently available.
But alrighty then. Just don't forget all the states no one has answered for yet.
That's getting back to my actual point. Despite the flailings in this thread, when it comes to actually answering the question, no one is really doing so.
Just a hodgepodge, incomplete set of partial answers.
Reply #8 lists 75 for California. Can any state beat that?
Quote from: Revive 755 on September 23, 2023, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 23, 2023, 09:22:10 AM
Also, are there any states that do not number exits on such freeways?
I think numbering exits on non-interstate freeways seems to be the exception in most states. Iowa is the only state I am aware of that consistently numbers the exits for almost all freeway segments.
As for listing other states:
Illinois
Full Freeway
* IL 6 (has exit numbers)
* IL 255 (has exit numbers)
* IL 390 (has exit numbers)
Freeway segments
* US 20 around Rockford and again around Freeport (no exit numbers)
* US 34 around Galesburg (no exit numbers)
* US 41, multiple segments in Chicagoland (no exit numbers)
* US 50 near the Indiana border (no exit numbers)
* US 51 south of I-72 in the Decatur area (no exit numbers)
* US 67 around Jacksonville (no exit numbers)
* IL 38 (no exit numbers)
* IL 53 (no exit numbers)
* IL 83 (no exit numbers)
* IL 92 in Moline (no exit numbers)
* IL 137/the Amstutz in Waukegan (no exit numbers)
* IL 336 Super-2 segment around Macomb) (no exit numbers)
* IL 394 (no exit numbers)
I would add a few to this list, mostly shorter and substandard examples:
- IL-171 has a short freeway segment between I-55 and 44th Place
- IL-56 has a short freeway segment near Prestbury, acting as an I-88 spur
- IL-15 is in a weird limbo state of being half-grade separated in the St. Louis area; south of Belleville it does have a sequence of multiple exits without an at-grade intersection, making it a freeway in this section only.
- IL-116 is a short, very substandard freeway on the eastern approach to the Cedar Street Bridge in East Peoria.
- US-45 has a short, freeway-like segment between I-55 and I-294
- Stoney Island Avenue is a arguably a short freeway spur of the Bishop Ford south of 95th street, having interchanges with the Bishop Ford and 103rd.
- Depending on how many straws you grasp at, the McCluggage Bridge in Peoria and the interchanges at each end form a freeway for about a mile.
Quote from: jlam on September 24, 2023, 12:27:29 AM
Here is a non-exhaustive list for Colorado:
- US 6, 6th Avenue Freeway (10 miles)
- US 24 in Colorado Springs (2 miles)
- US 36, Denver-Boulder Turnpike (20 miles)
- US 285 in Denver (11 miles)
- CO 21, Powers Boulevard (6 miles)
- CO 47, César Chávez Memorial Highway (3 miles)
- CO 58, Golden Freeway (5 miles)
- CO 115 at Fort Carson (3 miles)
- CO 470 (27 miles)
- E-470 (47 miles)
- Northwest Parkway (8 miles)
- Peña Boulevard (11 miles)
- South Academy Boulevard I-25 to MEP Pkwy (2 miles)
Of course, short limited-access segments and glorified ramps were not included.
The only freeways on this list with exit numbers are the 470 loop, CO 21, and the spurs into Golden and DIA. Powers Boulevard is strange because its exit numbers run parallel to I-25's. The plan might be to reroute I-25 around the city.
On this note, for the thread, how are we defining "freeway"? Two consecutive exits without any open access in between?
For Colorado, is CO83 a Freeway when there are exits for Hampden Avenue, Vaughn Way/Dam Rd, and I-225?
(https://i.postimg.cc/FFkzsVZn/CO83.png)
Quote from: DandyDan on September 23, 2023, 10:29:32 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 23, 2023, 05:54:25 PM
MN (doesn't count any Interstate duplexes):
Entirely:
TH 77, TH 100, TH 610
Mostly:
TH 36, TH 62, TH 101, TH 280
Significant freeway segments:
US 10, US 12, US 14, US 52, US 61, US 169, US 212, TH 5, TH 60
Scattered freeway-grade bypass sections:
US 2, US 71, TH 23
I don't count the US 63 Rochester bypass since that was a recent rerouting.
But shouldn't US 63 south of US 52 count as freeway? There's certainly some exits there.
There were more than a few I forgot, including that one, TH 15 from I-94 into downtown St. Cloud, and TH 371 from US 10 to Morrison CSAH 48, etc.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 12:31:24 PM
On this note, for the thread, how are we defining "freeway"? Two consecutive exits without any open access in between?
To get Wyoming even to one, I had to allow one grade separated-interchange plus one additional grade separation (the second grade separation being over there by "Wyoming Machinery Company", plus the crossing of the railroad line on an overpass. The only reason I thought of it was that on Wyoming's official state highway map, it's shown as an "Interstate highway or other controlled access four-lane road" on the legend. It does look like a short freeway, for what that's worth.
(https://i.imgur.com/d43Wxve.png)
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2023, 10:47:49 AMThat's getting back to my actual point. Despite the flailings in this thread, when it comes to actually answering the question, no one is really doing so.
Just a hodgepodge, incomplete set of partial answers.
There are, AIUI, three questions in the OP:
* Which state has the greatest centerline mileage of non-Interstate freeway?
* Which state has the largest number of discrete segments of non-Interstate freeway?
* How prevalent is exit numbering on these freeway segments?
All three require some form of cataloguing or list compilation for all fifty states (plus DC plus territories). That takes a while to do.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 12:31:24 PMOn this note, for the thread, how are we defining "freeway"? Two consecutive exits without any open access in between?
This is actually kind of a sticky question. Two consecutive interchanges without any intermediate breaks in access control (such as driveways, flat intersections, etc.) is a useful way to exclude isolated grade separations. However, it's conceptually possible to have a segment of roadway with full access control for miles and miles, then an interchange, and then full access control for more miles and miles. (The US 54 Cunningham bypass in Kansas is one such.) It would not be reasonable to exclude such a facility on grounds that it is an isolated grade separation.
This by no means exhausts the universe of possible edge cases--there are others based on the degree of access control provided. There are also isolated grade separations (such as along US 75 in Sabetha, Kansas) that could plausibly be counted as short freeway segments since the roadway grades involved do not favor flat intersections that might otherwise be provided.
As for Colorado SH 83, I would count it as freeway, but only between Lehigh Avenue (last signal going north) and the ramps to and from I-225 northbound (first signal after access control ends going north). This indeed leaves interchanges at Hampden Avenue and Vaughn Way/Dam Road, but the latter is marginal since it can be argued that the connection to northbound SH 83 is so substandard as to be a turn rather than a ramp.
Kentucky has long had exit numbers on its parkways, along with KY 4 (New Circle Road), KY 841 (Gene Snyder Freeway) and US 60 (Owensboro bypass). There are also exit numbers on the two exits along US 23 at either end of the Pikeville Cut-Through. However, there are no exit numbers for US 23's interchanges at US 460/KY 40 in Johnson County and KY 114 and KY 80/KY 302 in Floyd County.
Fleshing out MN...
US 2 (2): Bong Bridge, Bemidji bypass
US 8 (1): westerb terminus 1st mile
US 10 (3): St. Paul-Cottage Grove, Blaine-Anoka, Little Falls bypass
US 12 (1): I-494 to Orono (part of this is a super-2)
US 14 (2): Owatonna-Janesville and Mankato (does not include Rochester duplex)
US 52 (2 main segments): St. Paul-Coates, Rochester
US 53 (1): north of I-35 in Duluth (debatable)
US 61's entry overlaps with US 10
US 63 (1 independent): Rochester to Stewartville
US 71's entry overlaps with US 2
US 169 (7): Mankato, Le Sueur bypass, Belle Plaine bypass, Shakopee-Brooklyn Park, Elk River*, Princeton bypass, Milaca bypass
US 212 (1): Edina-Chaska
TH 5: airport freeway
TH 15: St. Cloud spur
TH 23 (2): Paynesville bypass, Willmar bypass
TH 36 (3): Roseville-Lake Elmo interrupted by the Century Ave stoplight; Oak Park Heights crossing area
TH 62 II (2): Eden Prairie-Mendota Heights, Inver Grove Heights
TH 65: unsigned southern stub
TH 77: all
TH 100: all
TH 101: Rogers-Elk River
TH 280: all going northbound
TH 371: Little Falls-Camp Ripley
TH 610: all
Total: 37 (whatever on the math)
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2023, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: webny99 on September 25, 2023, 08:18:24 AM
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2023, 06:55:48 AM
A summary of the thread is impossible to compile? Baloney. Just would take someone time to gather the responses so far.
TM would be easier to compile, more scalable, provide the most accurate and greatest breadth of data, and would be live and more-or-less permanently available.
But alrighty then. Just don't forget all the states no one has answered for yet.
That's getting back to my actual point. Despite the flailings in this thread, when it comes to actually answering the question, no one is really doing so.
Just a hodgepodge, incomplete set of partial answers.
Not to mention, TM isn't actually easier to compile. For one thing, it doesn't even claim to have all freeways, not even in the US. The Inner Loop wasn't there for a the longest time, and stuff like Suffolk CR 97 (if that counts, given the number of at-grades) still isn't. So to make TM work, the data people there would need to precisely define "freeway" such that they could remove the "select" part of the "US Select Named Freeways" system, and then they would need to identify and draft everything that isn't in the system. They would likely all do the same for all other countries with similar systems for the sake of consistently. That would be a lot of work... so not quite analogous to the 6lane situation where it was (mostly) possible to do with the existing data/infrastructure.
If TM were to become involved, I would think it would ultimately involve the interstates too (even though that's everything except I-180) for consistency with regions that have a similar Tier 1 system that isn't all freeway (like every Canadian province that has one except for Ontario*).
*And even then, ON 420 is a thing.
Quote from: vdeane on September 25, 2023, 08:58:33 PM
Not to mention, TM isn't actually easier to compile. For one thing, it doesn't even claim to have all freeways, not even in the US. The Inner Loop wasn't there for a the longest time, and stuff like Suffolk CR 97 (if that counts, given the number of at-grades) still isn't. So to make TM work, the data people there would need to precisely define "freeway" such that they could remove the "select" part of the "US Select Named Freeways" system, and then they would need to identify and draft everything that isn't in the system. They would likely all do the same for all other countries with similar systems for the sake of consistently. That would be a lot of work... so not quite analogous to the 6lane situation where it was (mostly) possible to do with the existing data/infrastructure.
By easier to compile, my assumption was that multiple people would be involved, anyone could submit data for states if/when they're interested and have time, and that would be easier on balance than any one person trying to compile and update everything into a single source in this thread or elsewhere. I've spent my share of time editing tables and other long summary-type posts on this forum, and it gets very tedious.
I hadn't considered the fact that TM does not have
all freeways, but it would have the vast majority, aside from a few odd county route exceptions, and those could potentially be added if they're long/significant, or just skipped for what it's worth.
Quote from: vdeane on September 25, 2023, 08:58:33 PM
If TM were to become involved, I would think it would ultimately involve the interstates too (even though that's everything except I-180) for consistency with regions that have a similar Tier 1 system that isn't all freeway (like every Canadian province that has one except for Ontario*).
*And even then, ON 420 is a thing.
Including interstates would defeat the entire purpose of the "non-interstate freeway" concept. It's unique to the US by definition, so other regions/countries wouldn't need to be included in the project.
Quote from: webny99 on September 29, 2023, 12:11:09 PM
Including interstates would defeat the entire purpose of the "non-interstate freeway" concept. It's unique to the US by definition, so other regions/countries wouldn't need to be included in the project.
You can get all the non-interstate freeways by taking the set of all freeways and subtracting the set of freeways that are interstates. Seems more versatile for me.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 25, 2023, 01:54:16 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 12:31:24 PMOn this note, for the thread, how are we defining "freeway"? Two consecutive exits without any open access in between?
This is actually kind of a sticky question. Two consecutive interchanges without any intermediate breaks in access control (such as driveways, flat intersections, etc.) is a useful way to exclude isolated grade separations. However, it's conceptually possible to have a segment of roadway with full access control for miles and miles, then an interchange, and then full access control for more miles and miles. (The US 54 Cunningham bypass in Kansas is one such.) It would not be reasonable to exclude such a facility on grounds that it is an isolated grade separation.
Would this 3.6 mile long section of US 50 in eastern Cincinnati (https://maps.app.goo.gl/m5gwkLjebCdmqJ9d8) count as a freeway? It has no at-grade access in this portion, and two interchanges to OH 125/32/561 and Red Bank Rd, but both sides end at "stroads" (for the lack of a better term) in the "downtowns" of a neighborhood or suburb. And Google Maps doesn't mark it as a freeway (light orange vs a darker, bolded orange for freeways).
Quote from: gonealookin on September 23, 2023, 06:00:04 PM
Just a few in Nevada (with some approximate lengths):
...
SR 613, Summerlin Parkway (6 miles)
...
The exits on...SR 613 are not numbered; the rest of those freeways have numbered exits.
Updating this, since I'm here for PGA Tour at TPC Summerlin: Since the last time I visited, the exits on SR 613 have been numbered.
I'd say California.
Quote from: webny99 on September 29, 2023, 12:11:09 PM
Including interstates would defeat the entire purpose of the "non-interstate freeway" concept. It's unique to the US by definition, so other regions/countries wouldn't need to be included in the project.
However, there are countries that have very analogous systems to the US, India being one of them. The difference in this case trying to compile India's systems for TM is a massive chore given how sparsely things are actually signed -- not just the highways themselves (which will still have old NH route signage on the ground), but interchange signage. While Street View seems to be finally being implemented, likely by on the ground static photography instead of GMSVmobiles, it's proving that street signs aren't important for Indian life.
Furthermore, Google Maps and OSM don't agree very well on what's on the ground outside of the major cities, not to mention the actual routing of some of the highways.
But India does match the US in terms of system definition -- National Expressways are Interstates, National Highways are US Highways (and the dominant system), State Highways are, well, State Highways/Routes, and there are non-numbered or private highways.
As far as I can tell, however, there aren't any uniquely SH freeways; they're either private, named routes, or NH/NE numbered.
Outside of India, I'd think Spain would be the best European example, and that's one TM could theoretically track.
AZ State Routes Full Freeway
AZ 51 16.7mi
AZ Loop 101 60.99mi
AZ 143 3.93mi
AZ Loop 202 77.66mi
AZ Loop 303 35.25mi
partial freeway
US 60 27.54mi
AZ 24 1mi
Hybread Freeway/Expressway
AZ 210 3.96mi
Quote from: mapman1071 on December 03, 2023, 12:21:17 AM
AZ State Routes Full Freeway
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On that note, I think AZ definitely wins "highest percentage of freeways that are non-interstate".
Going to try to compile a list for Texas. This may be a little inaccurate, since sometimes different numbered routes might form a single loop or bypass of a city, and sometimes they peel away in a different direction for an exit or two.
(Personally, I think 3+ exits counts as a freeway, but to each their own.)
El Paso: much of Loop 375, Spur 601, parts of US 54 (3)
Odessa/Midland: much of Loop 338, SH 191, Loop 250 (3)
Big Spring: US 87 (1)
Del Rio: Loop 79 (1)
San Angelo: Loop 306 with US 67/277 (2 routes, but effectively 1)
Abilene: US 83/277 and Loop 322 (2 routes, but effectively 1)
Wichita Falls: US 277, US 287, US 281 (3)
Henrietta: US 287 (1, barely)
Laredo: Loop 20 (1), TX 255
Brownsville: SH 550 (1)
Corpus Christi: SH 44, SH 358, SH 286, US 181 (4)
Victoria: US 77, US 59, Loop 463 (3, acting as 1 loop)
Sinton: US 77, SH 89 (2)
San Antonio: Loop 1604, US 281, SH 151, Wurzbach Parkway (4)
New Braunfels: Loop 337 (1)
Austin: SH 130, SH 45, Loop 1, US 183, US 290 (5); Loop 360 has some grade separations but driveway access points.
Taylor: US 79 (1)
Temple: Loop 363 et al (1)
Waco: Loop 340, TX 6, Loop 484 (3)
DFW: Chisholm Trail, SHs 121, 114, 183, 360, 408, US 67, Loop 12, 161/PB/190, US 175, US 80, US 75, US 287, Spur 557 (14)
Tyler: TX 49 (1)
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Quote from: SkyPesos on September 29, 2023, 01:10:20 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 25, 2023, 01:54:16 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 12:31:24 PMOn this note, for the thread, how are we defining "freeway"? Two consecutive exits without any open access in between?
This is actually kind of a sticky question. Two consecutive interchanges without any intermediate breaks in access control (such as driveways, flat intersections, etc.) is a useful way to exclude isolated grade separations. However, it's conceptually possible to have a segment of roadway with full access control for miles and miles, then an interchange, and then full access control for more miles and miles. (The US 54 Cunningham bypass in Kansas is one such.) It would not be reasonable to exclude such a facility on grounds that it is an isolated grade separation.
Would this 3.6 mile long section of US 50 in eastern Cincinnati (https://maps.app.goo.gl/m5gwkLjebCdmqJ9d8) count as a freeway? It has no at-grade access in this portion, and two interchanges to OH 125/32/561 and Red Bank Rd, but both sides end at "stroads" (for the lack of a better term) in the "downtowns" of a neighborhood or suburb. And Google Maps doesn't mark it as a freeway (light orange vs a darker, bolded orange for freeways).
I would say that easily counts as freeway, it's not even a doubt in my mind. 3+ miles long, has several grade separations and two interchanges.
Quote from: formulanone on December 04, 2023, 11:23:24 PM
Going to try to compile a list for Texas. This may be a little inaccurate, since sometimes different numbered routes might form a single loop or bypass of a city, and sometimes they peel away in a different direction for an exit or two.
(Personally, I think 3+ exits counts as a freeway, but to each their own.)
El Paso: much of Loop 375, Spur 601, parts of US 54 (3)
Odessa/Midland: much of Loop 338, SH 191, Loop 250 (3)
Big Spring: US 87 (1)
Del Rio: Loop 79 (1)
San Angelo: Loop 306 with US 67/277 (2 routes, but effectively 1)
Abilene: US 83/277 and Loop 322 (2 routes, but effectively 1)
Wichita Falls: US 277, US 287, US 281 (3)
Henrietta: US 287 (1, barely)
Laredo: Loop 20 (1), TX 255
Brownsville: SH 550 (1)
Corpus Christi: SH 44, SH 358, SH 286, US 181 (4)
Victoria: US 77, US 59, Loop 463 (3, acting as 1 loop)
Sinton: US 77, SH 89 (2)
San Antonio: Loop 1604, US 281, SH 151, Wurzbach Parkway (4)
New Braunfels: Loop 337 (1)
Austin: SH 130, SH 45, Loop 1, US 183, US 290 (5); Loop 360 has some grade separations but driveway access points.
Taylor: US 79 (1)
Temple: Loop 363 et al (1)
Waco: Loop 340, TX 6, Loop 484 (3)
DFW: Chisholm Trail, SHs 121, 114, 183, 360, 408, US 67, Loop 12, 161/PB/190, US 175, US 80, US 75, US 287, Spur 557 (14) ùù
Tyler: TX 49 (1)
...
Loop 49 around Tyler (and later, Lindale) is a Super-2 with no dividing barrier of any kind.
Quote from: -- US 175 -- on February 03, 2024, 03:10:51 PM
Quote from: formulanone on December 04, 2023, 11:23:24 PM
Going to try to compile a list for Texas. This may be a little inaccurate, since sometimes different numbered routes might form a single loop or bypass of a city, and sometimes they peel away in a different direction for an exit or two.
(Personally, I think 3+ exits counts as a freeway, but to each their own.)
El Paso: much of Loop 375, Spur 601, parts of US 54 (3)
Odessa/Midland: much of Loop 338, SH 191, Loop 250 (3)
Big Spring: US 87 (1)
Del Rio: Loop 79 (1)
San Angelo: Loop 306 with US 67/277 (2 routes, but effectively 1)
Abilene: US 83/277 and Loop 322 (2 routes, but effectively 1)
Wichita Falls: US 277, US 287, US 281 (3)
Henrietta: US 287 (1, barely)
Laredo: Loop 20 (1), TX 255
Brownsville: SH 550 (1)
Corpus Christi: SH 44, SH 358, SH 286, US 181 (4)
Victoria: US 77, US 59, Loop 463 (3, acting as 1 loop)
Sinton: US 77, SH 89 (2)
San Antonio: Loop 1604, US 281, SH 151, Wurzbach Parkway (4)
New Braunfels: Loop 337 (1)
Austin: SH 130, SH 45, Loop 1, US 183, US 290 (5); Loop 360 has some grade separations but driveway access points.
Taylor: US 79 (1)
Temple: Loop 363 et al (1)
Waco: Loop 340, TX 6, Loop 484 (3)
DFW: Chisholm Trail, SHs 121, 114, 183, 360, 408, US 67, Loop 12, 161/PB/190, US 175, US 80, US 75, US 287, Spur 557 (14) ùù
Tyler: TX 49 (1)
...
Loop 49 around Tyler (and later, Lindale) is a Super-2 with no dividing barrier of any kind.
It's still a freeway.
Quote from: formulanone on December 04, 2023, 11:23:24 PM
Going to try to compile a list for Texas. This may be a little inaccurate, since sometimes different numbered routes might form a single loop or bypass of a city, and sometimes they peel away in a different direction for an exit or two.
(Personally, I think 3+ exits counts as a freeway, but to each their own.)
El Paso: much of Loop 375, Spur 601, parts of US 54 (3)
Odessa/Midland: much of Loop 338, SH 191, Loop 250 (3)
Big Spring: US 87 (1)
Del Rio: Loop 79 (1)
San Angelo: Loop 306 with US 67/277 (2 routes, but effectively 1)
Abilene: US 83/277 and Loop 322 (2 routes, but effectively 1)
Wichita Falls: US 277, US 287, US 281 (3)
Henrietta: US 287 (1, barely)
Laredo: Loop 20 (1), TX 255
Brownsville: SH 550 (1)
Corpus Christi: SH 44, SH 358, SH 286, US 181 (4)
Victoria: US 77, US 59, Loop 463 (3, acting as 1 loop)
Sinton: US 77, SH 89 (2)
San Antonio: Loop 1604, US 281, SH 151, Wurzbach Parkway (4)
New Braunfels: Loop 337 (1)
Austin: SH 130, SH 45, Loop 1, US 183, US 290 (5); Loop 360 has some grade separations but driveway access points.
Taylor: US 79 (1)
Temple: Loop 363 et al (1)
Waco: Loop 340, TX 6, Loop 484 (3)
DFW: Chisholm Trail, SHs 121, 114, 183, 360, 408, US 67, Loop 12, 161/PB/190, US 175, US 80, US 75, US 287, Spur 557 (14)
Tyler: TX 49 (1)
...
I would add SH-199 and DNT for the DFW metro. (+2) SH-170 will make the list soon once it is opened.
Don't forget US-90 for San Antonio either. (+1) If multiplexed routes count, then I would add SH-16 and US-87.
Austin: SH-71 (+1)
Houston: US-90, US-90 Alt, US-290, US-59, Beltway 8/Sam Houston Tollway, SH-99/Grand Parkway, HTR, SH-249, SH-225, SH-6, Westpark Tollway, Fort Bend Tollway, SH-288, SH-146, SH-330, FM-1764 (16)
Amarillo: US-287, US-87, Loop 335 (3)
Lubbock: US-82, US-87, US-62, Spur 327, Loop 289 (5)