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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: hotdogPi on December 29, 2014, 09:57:25 AM

Title: Possible careers
Post by: hotdogPi on December 29, 2014, 09:57:25 AM
I'm thinking about college, and I'm wondering what careers would take advantage of my interest in roads. I am very strong in math and science. Any suggestions for me? Thanks.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: PHLBOS on December 29, 2014, 09:59:27 AM
Two-word answer: Civil Engineering.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: The Nature Boy on December 29, 2014, 10:00:36 AM
And if engineering isn't your thing then maybe urban planning or public policy.

Urban planning is probably the best non-math major that you can pursue for road related items.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: NE2 on December 29, 2014, 11:03:43 AM
Given your name, how about a sheep? #1 always gets counted.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: Alex4897 on December 29, 2014, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 29, 2014, 09:59:27 AM
Two-word answer: Civil Engineering.

This is what I was planning to go for.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: 2Co5_14 on December 29, 2014, 12:45:19 PM
When you look at colleges, be sure to find out if a civil engineering program has transportation-related courses you can take as an undergraduate. When I was searching (many years ago) I found that some civil engineering programs only offered structural, environmental or geotechnical courses, and others that only offered transportation courses to graduate students. Read the course catalog and look at the major requirements to be sure.

I personally graduated from Northeastern University, and I can highly recommend their program (especially the co-op option).  It took 5 years rather than 4, but I gained experience working with 3 different engineering firms along the way, which gave me a big advantage when it came to looking for a permanent job.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: vdeane on December 29, 2014, 01:44:55 PM
My degree is actually in computer science; as it just so happens, the math/computer classes counted towards the coursework requirements for my job (technically in planning, though I do a little bit of a lot of things).  If you're interested in GIS, that's actually a concentration of CS/IT in many schools (but not all).
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: ET21 on December 29, 2014, 01:55:52 PM
Civil Engineering, Urban Planning, and GIS. GIS is really fun to use both as a meteorologist and as a map maker
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: GCrites on December 29, 2014, 02:57:46 PM
One thing that might impress possible employers is that you actually care about this stuff. A lot of people go into highway engineering just because they heard that it a steady job that can pay well if you work hard and don't care about the subject matter at all.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: cl94 on December 29, 2014, 06:52:36 PM
If you're into civil engineering, go for it. While seemingly everyone wants to be a structural engineer (especially at my university, which has one of the most extensive earthquake research centers in the world), there are few of us that are actually interested in transportation and there are quite a few areas you could specialize in. There's geometric design, GIS, ITS, pavement design, statistical modelling, and several topics, each broken down into road, rail, air, water, and pedestrian modes. If you're willing to work for it, there are tons of opportunities. I'm currently an undergrad at the University at Buffalo and, after next semester, will have taken a total of 4 transportation courses, with a few more on key topics integral to the field.

A couple things I'd suggest:


If you're interested solely in urban planning or GIS, there are programs for both that concentrate specifically on those topics. But if you want to do anything else or a mix of things and you're good at science and math, go for engineering. Might be a lot of work, but if you work hard and have fun with engineering-related clubs/organizations (I highly recommend the American Society of Civil Engineers, which has a student chapter at most schools with a civil engineering program), it'll be a great time.

I'll warn you that transportation-related stuff involves a lot of statistics. I'm no stranger to Excel spreadsheets with several thousand lines or Matlab scripts that spit out numbers.

Hope I didn't bore you with a bunch of info, but I know way too many engineers (or former engineers) who didn't know what they were getting into.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: GCrites on December 29, 2014, 06:57:27 PM
An old roommate of mine who is a 10-year PE by now says that his company really likes applicants with ODOT experience such as through an internship. I'd imagine that it goes for other state DOTs too.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: The Nature Boy on December 30, 2014, 10:26:10 AM
I think it's also going to be important to have a backup plan in case engineering doesn't work out. I know a lot of people who wanted to be engineers, had no backup plan and graduated with a useless degree. Try to find schools with urban planning and engineering programs.

Urban Planning is a good fall back since you still get to work with roads and urban design, just from a different angle.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: roadman65 on December 30, 2014, 10:45:39 AM
How about house flipping?  Seriously, I know many who buy houses in bad condition, fix them up, and sell them for a much larger amount then what they paid for it along with the fixing up costs and make it big.

Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: MikeTheActuary on December 30, 2014, 10:47:01 AM
If engineering or urban planning don't fit your academic interests, you might take a look at a couple of careers within insurance.

The mapping and organization skills associated with roadgeeking can be very useful for certain projects undertaken by actuaries and underwriters (e.g., knowledge of viable hurricane evacuation routes influence some of the inland marine rates I've calculated).   

Certain specialty markets within insurance (public entities, construction) also can focus on the risks associated with roads, transportation systems, law enforcement, etc.   I've got to tell you that rating up liability coverage for a state DOT is oddly cool to me, and I enjoyed reviewing one file that crossed my desk from an agency created specifically to build a particular toll road.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: ajlynch91 on December 30, 2014, 11:06:07 AM
Or you could get a job producing traffic information for cities. I live in Chicago but produce traffic for New York City as part of my job at HERE. I've never been happier. That said, my ultimate goal is to either go into transportation planning or something related to weather. Civil Engineering as already stated is an excellent career choice, but the math and physics required to be successful in it waved buh-bye to me a long time ago.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: GCrites on December 30, 2014, 10:19:40 PM
I met a dude who does that a few years back. He applied for a job entitled "traffic engineer" or something close to it thinking it would be doing the kind of traffic engineering that people here think of such as signal timing and traffic flow. Turns out they needed someone to watch traffic cams and change VMSs to alert drivers of crashes and other backups that he saw on the cams. He just rolled with it and took the job.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: KG909 on December 30, 2014, 10:24:39 PM
I'm going to be a beat producer, half because my friend raps and half so I can go on tours and discover more roads.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: Pete from Boston on December 30, 2014, 11:59:39 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on December 30, 2014, 10:45:39 AM
How about house flipping?  Seriously, I know many who buy houses in bad condition, fix them up, and sell them for a much larger amount then what they paid for it along with the fixing up costs and make it big.

The only possible relevance this has to his interest in roads is that flipping houses requires you to get very used to driving around one area for about a year, then another, and so on. 
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: PHLBOS on December 31, 2014, 01:57:38 PM
Quote from: cl94 on December 29, 2014, 06:52:36 PMCivil Engineering, not "Civil Engineering Technology". The latter is not accredited and lacks a couple key courses.
Not completely true.  The Accreditation Board for Engineering & Technology (aka ABET) does accredit Engineering Technology programs as well as Engineering programs.  However, if persuing a PE license is indeed your goal; it would be better to get an engineering degree vs. one in engineering technology.  In many states, the latter requires more work experience prior to taking the FE/EIT and/or PE exams.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: roadman65 on January 04, 2015, 09:43:47 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 30, 2014, 11:59:39 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on December 30, 2014, 10:45:39 AM
How about house flipping?  Seriously, I know many who buy houses in bad condition, fix them up, and sell them for a much larger amount then what they paid for it along with the fixing up costs and make it big.

The only possible relevance this has to his interest in roads is that flipping houses requires you to get very used to driving around one area for about a year, then another, and so on. 
I was suggesting that he get out of roads.  Sometimes where you want to be is not always the best place. :bigass:
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: Pete from Boston on January 04, 2015, 09:45:57 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on January 04, 2015, 09:43:47 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 30, 2014, 11:59:39 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on December 30, 2014, 10:45:39 AM
How about house flipping?  Seriously, I know many who buy houses in bad condition, fix them up, and sell them for a much larger amount then what they paid for it along with the fixing up costs and make it big.

The only possible relevance this has to his interest in roads is that flipping houses requires you to get very used to driving around one area for about a year, then another, and so on. 
I was suggesting that he get out of roads.  Sometimes where you want to be is not always the best place. :bigass:

Remind me not to ask you for directions.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: dmr37 on January 06, 2015, 12:10:54 PM
bus driver
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: jakeroot on January 06, 2015, 05:29:27 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 04, 2015, 09:43:47 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 30, 2014, 11:59:39 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on December 30, 2014, 10:45:39 AM
How about house flipping?  Seriously, I know many who buy houses in bad condition, fix them up, and sell them for a much larger amount then what they paid for it along with the fixing up costs and make it big.

The only possible relevance this has to his interest in roads is that flipping houses requires you to get very used to driving around one area for about a year, then another, and so on. 
I was suggesting that he get out of roads.  Sometimes where you want to be is not always the best place. :bigass:

Yep. I got into the University of Washington, Engineering School, only to drop out because I, frankly, suck at math.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: PColumbus73 on January 06, 2015, 07:09:33 PM
I graduated with an Associates in Drafting and Design one year ago and I'm still looking for something at the DOT or something similar. Unfortunately, the course I took was aimed more at architecture over civil, so I am at a disadvantage when it comes to things like AutoCAD Civil 3D. So, I've applied for jobs as an Assistant Geodetic Technician and similar seemingly entry-level positions.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: Zeffy on January 06, 2015, 07:09:51 PM
Quote from: cl94 on December 29, 2014, 06:52:36 PM
If possible, take AP Calculus and either AP Chemistry or Physics. Depending on the college and its requirements, calculus may get you out of at least one freshman math class. At UB, AP Chemistry got me out of both required chemistry courses.[/li][/list]

There goes any hope of me becoming a civil engineer. I never took any of those classes in high school, nevermind the fact I never took an AP class period!

All I wanna do is design signs, but even though I can do it well using non-official software, the whole lack of experience/education probably eliminates that career path for me.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: jakeroot on January 06, 2015, 07:46:21 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on January 06, 2015, 07:09:51 PM
All I wanna do is design signs, but even though I can do it well using non-official software, the whole lack of experience/education probably eliminates that career path for me.

Unless I'm mistaken (which I probably am), the engineers themselves design the sign. So yeah, lack of education/experience is the killer in this field.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: johndoe on January 06, 2015, 07:56:00 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on January 06, 2015, 07:09:51 PM
There goes any hope of me becoming a civil engineer. I never took any of those classes in high school, nevermind the fact I never took an AP class period!

All I wanna do is design signs, but even though I can do it well using non-official software, the whole lack of experience/education probably eliminates that career path for me.

Don't be so hard on yourself!  You don't HAVE to get college credit while in high school...it'll just save you money and time.  If it is something you're really passionate about try to contact professionals who specialize in things that interest you.  I know our DOT has one main guy who deals with statewide truss sign design and review (when consultants design them)
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: GCrites on January 06, 2015, 08:02:03 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 06, 2015, 05:29:27 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 04, 2015, 09:43:47 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 30, 2014, 11:59:39 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on December 30, 2014, 10:45:39 AM
How about house flipping?  Seriously, I know many who buy houses in bad condition, fix them up, and sell them for a much larger amount then what they paid for it along with the fixing up costs and make it big.

The only possible relevance this has to his interest in roads is that flipping houses requires you to get very used to driving around one area for about a year, then another, and so on. 
I was suggesting that he get out of roads.  Sometimes where you want to be is not always the best place. :bigass:

Yep. I got into the University of Washington, Engineering School, only to drop out because I, frankly, suck at math.

Also don't do house flipping if you suck at math.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: Pete from Boston on January 06, 2015, 08:03:19 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on January 06, 2015, 07:09:51 PM
Quote from: cl94 on December 29, 2014, 06:52:36 PM
If possible, take AP Calculus and either AP Chemistry or Physics. Depending on the college and its requirements, calculus may get you out of at least one freshman math class. At UB, AP Chemistry got me out of both required chemistry courses.[/li][/list]

There goes any hope of me becoming a civil engineer. I never took any of those classes in high school, nevermind the fact I never took an AP class period!

All I wanna do is design signs, but even though I can do it well using non-official software, the whole lack of experience/education probably eliminates that career path for me.

You're what–20? 21?  You can get experience and education.  It's hard, slow, and expensive, and worth it.  And people in your situation do it all the time.  Start in with it and you'll meet them, and you'll help each other out, and you'll never regret having started.

I went back to school once.  I went in and talked to somebody, kind of overwhelmed, and asked "Is this a ridiculous idea?"  And they said not at all, and helped me figure out how to do it.

Seriously, do anything rather than nothing, and you'll find your way to where you need to be.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: Zeffy on January 06, 2015, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 06, 2015, 08:03:19 PM

You're what–20? 21?  You can get experience and education.  It's hard, slow, and expensive, and worth it.  And people in your situation do it all the time.  Start in with it and you'll meet them, and you'll help each other out, and you'll never regret having started.

I went back to school once.  I went in and talked to somebody, kind of overwhelmed, and asked "Is this a ridiculous idea?"  And they said not at all, and helped me figure out how to do it.

Seriously, do anything rather than nothing, and you'll find your way to where you need to be.

I appreciate the motivation, but one of my biggest issues is math - starting after the 9th grade, my grades dropped sharply into the pits of hell, and I barely passed senior math class (with a 66 average). Most of it was to blame for me not noticing my ADHD as it showed up during the 10th grade, and then being unable to comprehend anything taught. When I finally did get help for my attention problems, it was too late. And because of that, 11th grade math was hell, because it compounded on 10th grade math; same with 12th for 11th. I've look at what engineering entails, and there's just no way. I've looked at math courses online and failed them just as bad. My attention span is even worse now. My Adderall is great, but I can't take too much otherwise I can't sleep, and if I don't take it at all I can barely stay focused for more than 10 minutes.

Plus, all the debt associated with student loans is just horrible. My sister is getting fucked by it still. I don't even have a job yet. My longest one lasted all of about 3 months.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: GCrites on January 06, 2015, 08:58:59 PM
I didn't get good at math until I was about 25 and working on a Master's so there is still time.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: PColumbus73 on January 06, 2015, 09:02:38 PM
What about AutoCAD related work? That's where I have my degree.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: ajlynch91 on January 06, 2015, 09:07:24 PM
Quote

Seriously, do anything rather than nothing, and you'll find your way to where you need to be.

I cannot stress just how true this advice is.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: Pete from Boston on January 06, 2015, 09:30:23 PM

Quote from: Zeffy on January 06, 2015, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 06, 2015, 08:03:19 PM

You're what–20? 21?  You can get experience and education.  It's hard, slow, and expensive, and worth it.  And people in your situation do it all the time.  Start in with it and you'll meet them, and you'll help each other out, and you'll never regret having started.

I went back to school once.  I went in and talked to somebody, kind of overwhelmed, and asked "Is this a ridiculous idea?"  And they said not at all, and helped me figure out how to do it.

Seriously, do anything rather than nothing, and you'll find your way to where you need to be.

I appreciate the motivation, but one of my biggest issues is math - starting after the 9th grade, my grades dropped sharply into the pits of hell, and I barely passed senior math class (with a 66 average). Most of it was to blame for me not noticing my ADHD as it showed up during the 10th grade, and then being unable to comprehend anything taught. When I finally did get help for my attention problems, it was too late. And because of that, 11th grade math was hell, because it compounded on 10th grade math; same with 12th for 11th. I've look at what engineering entails, and there's just no way. I've looked at math courses online and failed them just as bad. My attention span is even worse now. My Adderall is great, but I can't take too much otherwise I can't sleep, and if I don't take it at all I can barely stay focused for more than 10 minutes.

Plus, all the debt associated with student loans is just horrible. My sister is getting fucked by it still. I don't even have a job yet. My longest one lasted all of about 3 months.

"Too late" isn't a thing. 

First thing that needs to be clear: high school sucks.  Not a lot of adults would do it again.  It's a herd of people whose most common trait is usually geography, learning by mandate and not by choice.

After high school, you find the people who think like you do, that learn like you do, that listen, that teach rather than dictate.  There are plenty of shitty educators in higher ed, but there are way more ways to use your own motivations to grow and advance, which is what will work.

Student loans may fuck you, but "what if?" will kill you.  Take the student loans. 

Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: Laura on January 07, 2015, 11:54:44 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 06, 2015, 09:30:23 PM

Quote from: Zeffy on January 06, 2015, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 06, 2015, 08:03:19 PM

You're what–20? 21?  You can get experience and education.  It's hard, slow, and expensive, and worth it.  And people in your situation do it all the time.  Start in with it and you'll meet them, and you'll help each other out, and you'll never regret having started.

I went back to school once.  I went in and talked to somebody, kind of overwhelmed, and asked "Is this a ridiculous idea?"  And they said not at all, and helped me figure out how to do it.

Seriously, do anything rather than nothing, and you'll find your way to where you need to be.

I appreciate the motivation, but one of my biggest issues is math - starting after the 9th grade, my grades dropped sharply into the pits of hell, and I barely passed senior math class (with a 66 average). Most of it was to blame for me not noticing my ADHD as it showed up during the 10th grade, and then being unable to comprehend anything taught. When I finally did get help for my attention problems, it was too late. And because of that, 11th grade math was hell, because it compounded on 10th grade math; same with 12th for 11th. I've look at what engineering entails, and there's just no way. I've looked at math courses online and failed them just as bad. My attention span is even worse now. My Adderall is great, but I can't take too much otherwise I can't sleep, and if I don't take it at all I can barely stay focused for more than 10 minutes.

Plus, all the debt associated with student loans is just horrible. My sister is getting fucked by it still. I don't even have a job yet. My longest one lasted all of about 3 months.

"Too late" isn't a thing. 

First thing that needs to be clear: high school sucks.  Not a lot of adults would do it again.  It's a herd of people whose most common trait is usually geography, learning by mandate and not by choice.

After high school, you find the people who think like you do, that learn like you do, that listen, that teach rather than dictate.  There are plenty of shitty educators in higher ed, but there are way more ways to use your own motivations to grow and advance, which is what will work.

Student loans may fuck you, but "what if?" will kill you.  Take the student loans. 



To add to this advice, don't let past failures stop you from future successes. Community colleges offer all kinds of remedial math courses. You may have to take a few extra semesters to get up to Calculus level math, but that's perfectly fine. There's no contest on how quickly you can learn math. If you fail, take the course again. The new grade will overwrite the old one.

As for student loans, the community college to state college route will help you keep costs low. Look for scholarship opportunities. There are so many that exist that don't rely on perfect grades. I earned undergrad scholarships through my credit union, church conference, and parents' Sons of Italy chapter just for being a member and writing a short essay. Another option you could try is to look for a job at a university - even if it's just maintenance work. There was a man who became a janitor at Columbia University and slowly worked his way to getting a degree there. He was able to attend classes for free since he was an employee. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/gac-filipaj-custodian-columbia-degree-graduates_n_1500953.html

Sometimes, you just have to be creative and look for non-conventional avenues for getting your degree. Because of life circumstances at the time, I graduated from undergrad with a 2.43 GPA, which was too low to get into most graduate school programs outright. However, my alma mater was looking to expand its graduate program in English, so had I wanted, they would have waived the GPA requirement and let me into the program since they still had vacancies. I decided instead to go to a different university for a different subject (city and regional planning). Since my GPA was too low to even be considered for the program, I enrolled as a non-degree seeking student. By doing this, I was allowed to take four courses outside of the program. After taking these four courses, I applied again and was allowed into the program because I had proved that I could handle it. I currently have a 4.0 in my program. Yes, this took me longer to do, but the end result will be the same - I will have a degree, just like everyone else, at graduation.

You're only 20. It's not too late to get started. Even if you were 40, I'd still give you the same advice. My grandfather worked full time until he was 84 years old because he wanted to. Whether you can or can't, you're right.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: kkt on January 07, 2015, 01:09:57 PM
I want to repeat what others have said.  20 is absolutely not too late, especially now that you know what the problem was.  What you really don't want is to get stuck in some crummy job and then when you're 50 and it really is too late, be looking back and thinking about how you could have been some department's star sign designer.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: billtm on January 10, 2015, 11:41:31 AM
I want to become a Civil Engineer, and my junior year of high school is approaching quickly. I know I want to take AP Calc that year, but my school offers two different courses. They are both two semester classes, but one only covers one semester's worth of College calc while the other covers two semesters ( basically college pace) I got a B in Algebra II/ Precalc first semester, so I am not sure if the second option is right for me or not. All of my friends say that they are going to take the College paced course though. Bottom line: For anyone out there who has taken college Calculus, is it extremely difficult? Is it too fast paced? :hmmm:
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: GCrites on January 10, 2015, 02:28:20 PM
If your friends are going to be in it with you then you will be able to study together and figure out things more quickly, provided they will be motivated. That's how people in college end up nailing classes that they are intimidated by initially.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: roadfro on January 10, 2015, 04:39:08 PM
Quote from: billtm on January 10, 2015, 11:41:31 AM
I want to become a Civil Engineer, and my junior year of high school is approaching quickly. I know I want to take AP Calc that year, but my school offers two different courses. They are both two semester classes, but one only covers one semester's worth of College calc while the other covers two semesters ( basically college pace) I got a B in Algebra II/ Precalc first semester, so I am not sure if the second option is right for me or not. All of my friends say that they are going to take the College paced course though. Bottom line: For anyone out there who has taken college Calculus, is it extremely difficult? Is it too fast paced? :hmmm:

My high school calc was the version where everyone takes the AP Calculus-AB test (1-semester college equivalent), since the school didn't offer AP Calculus-BC (2-semester college equivalent) at the time. I had always been good at math and knew that high math would be needed for a civil engineering degree. However, I did allow senioritis to rear it's ugly head and I didn't study as much as I should have for the AP test. How I got a 4 on that test, I'm still not sure...that test was hard given the amount I didn't study.

Going to the University of Nevada, Reno and earning a high enough score on the AP test, I was given college credit for Calculus I and enrolled in Calculus II right away my freshman year in college. Calculus II ended up being about 60-70% review of concepts I learned in high school calculus, but it was the slightly harder stuff (integration) that I probably needed to review anyway and it gave me a more solid foundation for the next class. With that said, had I had opportunity to take the Calculus-BC AP exam, there is the possibility that I could have earned two semesters of calculus credit and started in Calculus III as an entering college freshman.


Bill: Ultimately in the grand scheme, the shear fact that you're taking calculus in high school will help set you up for success towards an engineering degree. At UNR, the suggested 4-year graduation plan for a civil engineer assumes you enroll in Calculus I in your very first semester on campus–if you can earn AP credit for calculus through high school before you set foot on campus, you'll probably be ahead of the game. So from that perspective, either option could work for you. Keep in mind that the material covered in a high school calc course leading up to Calculus-AB is spread over an academic year, whereas the same material is covered in college and is only spread over a ~15-16 week semester (or ~8-10 weeks, if on a quarter system). How fast you absorb math concepts will play in here...will you need extra time to build up a solid math/calc foundation that will be necessary later on?

Since you're entering junior year of high school, the one thing I would be wary of is not taking any math during your senior year (I say this as a civil engineering grad *and* a person who currently works as an academic advisor at my alma mater). Most accredited civil engineering programs will probably require three semesters of calculus plus another higher math (e.g. differential equations), so you probably don't want to take a year off from math during your senior year of high school, especially if you'll be in the middle of the college calculus sequence. If that means taking the slower-paced calc course, or maybe doing something else like AP Stats, then you may want to entertain that option–you don't want your math skills to go stale, as that could hurt you later on. Ultimately, you're going to have to know yourself (math ability, study habits, etc) in order to choose what math to take.

Quote from: GCrites80s on January 10, 2015, 02:28:20 PM
If your friends are going to be in it with you then you will be able to study together and figure out things more quickly, provided they will be motivated. That's how people in college end up nailing classes that they are intimidated by initially.

This statement couldn't be more true. I wish I had done more study groups for my engineering work.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: vdeane on January 11, 2015, 02:28:31 PM
Hey look, I found Clarkson's course catalog with all the graduation requirements!  No idea why I saved that... probably to reply to this thread.  Regarding math, it's Calculus I, Calculus II, Calculus III, Differential Equations, and a math elective (I'd recommend statistics).  The first year includes freshman Chemistry, Physics, Calculus, MATLAB, Clarkson Seminar (a writing/critical thinking course), First Year Seminar, and a Knowledge Area (Clarkson's equivalent of the usual required liberal arts classes) elective.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: cl94 on January 11, 2015, 05:10:22 PM
If you're doing transportation engineering, I'd strongly recommend a linear algebra course in addition to statistics, especially if you're thinking of anything related to modeling, route assignment, or bridge engineering, as you need it to fully analyze these systems. You don't know how many times I've used it in my transportation courses and research.

My department chair told me that ABET requires a statistics course for full degree certification, but that may not be true.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: roadfro on January 11, 2015, 08:19:30 PM
Quote from: cl94 on January 11, 2015, 05:10:22 PM
My department chair told me that ABET requires a statistics course for full degree certification, but that may not be true.

Pretty sure that is true. I had the option of a civil engineering stats course or taking one from the math department. EE and ME majors had a similar option.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: PHLBOS on January 12, 2015, 08:50:08 AM
Quote from: cl94 on January 11, 2015, 05:10:22 PMMy department chair told me that ABET requires a statistics course for full degree certification, but that may not be true.
At some institutions, a semester course in statistics includes probability as well and is, hence, called Probability & Statistics.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: billtm on January 13, 2015, 06:19:09 PM
My high school requires that all students take at least one math class per semester, so I am sure that I am going to take AP Prob/Stat my senior year. My Pre-calc teacher told my class that we all should be able to handle BC Calculus, but I feel like I am at the lower end of the class. If I understand the AP system correctly, if I take AB Calc, then I will have a semester to fill with an elective. At most colleges, are there any good one semester electives? Or would I have more better options with a two semester elective? :confused:
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: cl94 on January 13, 2015, 10:50:01 PM
Quote from: billtm on January 13, 2015, 06:19:09 PM
My high school requires that all students take at least one math class per semester, so I am sure that I am going to take AP Prob/Stat my senior year. My Pre-calc teacher told my class that we all should be able to handle BC Calculus, but I feel like I am at the lower end of the class. If I understand the AP system correctly, if I take AB Calc, then I will have a semester to fill with an elective. At most colleges, are there any good one semester electives? Or would I have more better options with a two semester elective? :confused:

Most schools, especially engineering schools, offer the math courses you'd need to take every semester. That isn't an issue. But if you want to take electives and are at a large university, there are a bunch of fun electives available. I've taken a course where I spent 3 hours every Tuesday night watching Hitchcock films and another on queer theory that was quite intriguing and fun.

Yet, depending on how AP Calc is taught in your school, you may be in really good shape or really bad shape when you take your first university math course. Some high schools (such as mine) taught everything with a TI-89, so my friends and I had a little catching up to do when our courses didn't allow graphing calculators. Most people I know at university didn't have that issue.

While they might not advertise it, you can often take courses early if you meet the prerequisites. Talking to department leadership can help, especially because they may be able to give you an alternative option or tweak the requirements so you can take something that's of major interest to you.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: vdeane on January 14, 2015, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: billtm on January 13, 2015, 06:19:09 PM
At most colleges, are there any good one semester electives? Or would I have more better options with a two semester elective? :confused:
Unlike high school, in college all classes are one semester long.  If the material runs longer, it gets split into two classes (this is why freshman Chemistry would be called Chemistry I and Chemistry II, for example).

Electives are a LOT of fun, though one of the downsides of engineering is that you don't have as many.

Quote from: cl94 on January 13, 2015, 10:50:01 PM
Yet, depending on how AP Calc is taught in your school, you may be in really good shape or really bad shape when you take your first university math course. Some high schools (such as mine) taught everything with a TI-89, so my friends and I had a little catching up to do when our courses didn't allow graphing calculators. Most people I know at university didn't have that issue.
Yep, it sure was a shock to go from graphing calculators in high school to no calculators at all in college (at least for the lower levels).  Additional shock: Clarkson requires that everyone pass an elementary math "ABC" test with a score of 90% or better in order to get above a D in freshman calculus (and there's very little partial credit), though that one doesn't impact grading as much as one might think (since the people who can't pass the ABCs generally don't do well in calculus either; the test is meant as a wake up call for students who are weak in certain areas).

Quote
While they might not advertise it, you can often take courses early if you meet the prerequisites. Talking to department leadership can help, especially because they may be able to give you an alternative option or tweak the requirements so you can take something that's of major interest to you.
I'm pretty sure that the sample schedules are only guidelines anyways.  I knew a zillion people who didn't follow them.  Sometimes it's impossible (classes get scheduled at the same time, not offered every year, etc.)
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on January 14, 2015, 02:03:25 PM
I went the route of being a civil engineer at Middlesex County College, my alma mater. Unfortunately, I also realized that the stuff was way out of my league and the fear with physics and stuff coming up got me out of it. (I never took chemistry or physics in high school). I found my love for history there and don't feel like I made a mistake in leaving engineering. It just wasn't my cup of tea (neither was the math demands, cause I failed Algebra 2.) and I don't regret it.

If you're really up for civil engineering, be sure you're dedicated and get experience in math and physics, because as I've seen, being without that benefit is going to kill you. I love engineering, but I just realized it was easier to keep roadgeeking as a hobby and not as a career.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: billtm on January 15, 2015, 07:32:00 PM
I plan on taking both Chem and Physics AP my senior year. One of my freinds who skipped Algebra I and is taking Calc BC now told me that in the first semester, both Calc AB and BC are basically the same. He said they differentiated a lot more during the second semester. So now I am thinking if they are both the same first semester I should take BC and just see how it goes. Any thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: cl94 on January 15, 2015, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: billtm on January 15, 2015, 07:32:00 PM
I plan on taking both Chem and Physics AP my senior year. One of my freinds who skipped Algebra I and is taking Calc BC now told me that in the first semester, both Calc AB and BC are basically the same. He said they differentiated a lot more during the second semester. So now I am thinking if they are both the same first semester I should take BC and just see how it goes. Any thoughts on this?

If you have the option, go for it. For BC, the Calc 1 and Calc 2 parts of the exam are scored separately- do poorly on the second and you can still bypass Calc 1.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: hotdogPi on January 15, 2015, 07:43:24 PM
Quote from: billtm on January 15, 2015, 07:32:00 PM
I plan on taking both Chem and Physics AP my senior year. One of my freinds who skipped Algebra I and is taking Calc BC now told me that in the first semester, both Calc AB and BC are basically the same. He said they differentiated a lot more during the second semester. So now I am thinking if they are both the same first semester I should take BC and just see how it goes. Any thoughts on this?

Since you haven't taken either calculus course yet, I assume this is unintentional.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: GCrites on January 15, 2015, 11:27:14 PM
Also I hate to be a drag, but a lot of road-related work revolves around drainage. It's not all carriageways and cuts.
Title: Re: Possible careers
Post by: SignGeek101 on January 15, 2015, 11:43:30 PM
Partially my reason for trying to get into civil engineering is my obsession with road signs. Not a day goes by now where I don't think of them, partially because the ones where I live are so bad.