The Washington Post's Dr. Gridlock reports that Virginia will start charging E-ZPass account fees (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dr-gridlock/post/virginia-decides-to-impose-e-zpass-account-fees/2012/07/09/gJQA6iNwYW_blog.html), but it's going to phase in gradually and contain an exemption for E-ZPass Flex users who use their devices solely in carpool mode. Existing accountholders won't pay until they get new transponders or add transponders, at which time it will cost 50¢ per month per device.
The E-ZPass Flex exemption is a little more complicated, but distilled to its bare essence, the rule is that if you use your "Flex" solely in carpool mode and solely on the HO/T lanes, you pay no fee.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 09, 2012, 05:21:25 PM
The Washington Post's Dr. Gridlock reports that Virginia will start charging E-ZPass account fees (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dr-gridlock/post/virginia-decides-to-impose-e-zpass-account-fees/2012/07/09/gJQA6iNwYW_blog.html), but it's going to phase in gradually and contain an exemption for E-ZPass Flex users who use their devices solely in carpool mode. Existing accountholders won't pay until they get new transponders or add transponders, at which time it will cost 50¢ per month per device.
The E-ZPass Flex exemption is a little more complicated, but distilled to its bare essence, the rule is that if you use your "Flex" solely in carpool mode and solely on the HO/T lanes, you pay no fee.
Like avoiding a fee of 50 cents per month is a real incentive for people to carpool, or having to pay the fee will discourage people form carpooling. Setting up separate fee structures for essentially the same service NEVER works out in the long run.
Classic example of totally irrational decisions by politicians.
The whole monthly account fee is misguided since it discourages infrequent toll road users from getting an account. It's one thing to pay 50 cents a month when you save 10 dollars a month in discounts. It's another thing to pay 50 cents a month when you go through a toll three times a year.
If you need extra funds, just raise the tolls...
Does this now leave Massachusetts as the only state with a completely free E-ZPass?
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 09, 2012, 08:09:26 PM
Does this now leave Massachusetts as the only state with a completely free E-ZPass?
Delaware (DelDOT not the DRBA) still does not levy a monthly fee. Though there were talks last summer of adding one due to budget shortfalls, nothing more has been said.
Going opposite, they reduced the $25 charge for new transponders to $15 just a few weeks ago...
Quote from: roadman on July 09, 2012, 07:37:23 PM
Like avoiding a fee of 50 cents per month is a real incentive for people to carpool, or having to pay the fee will discourage people form carpooling. Setting up separate fee structures for essentially the same service NEVER works out in the long run.
Classic example of totally irrational decisions by politicians.
The separate fee structure for E-ZPass carpoolers is chump change, compared to the bigger difference between the tolls they'll have to pay in the express lanes (zero) and what non-carpoolers will pay. I view that decision as a mostly-symbolic nod to the carpool crowd.
50 cents a month (once the battery runs out on my existing transponder, which I've had for three years) gives me some heartburn as an infrequent E-ZPass user, but won't yet move me to switch to a remaining fee-free jurisdiction.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 09, 2012, 08:09:26 PM
Does this now leave Massachusetts as the only state with a completely free E-ZPass?
I think Maine is free as well, although they don't have it set up to let you apply online (you have to print out the form and mail it in).
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 09, 2012, 08:09:26 PM
Does this now leave Massachusetts as the only state with a completely free E-ZPass?
Besides Delaware, New York's E-ZPass is free if you initially register with a New York address (you can then change the address out of state and be grandfathered in). Unless they repeal it, the free E-ZPass is written into law.
Just looked at Maine's site. It's not totally free–they charge a one-time $10 fee for the transponder. No monthly fee, though. They also invite out-of-staters to enroll (compare to Virginia, which tells out-of-staters they're not welcome).
I don't think any E-ZPass member has a deal comparable to Florida's SunPass Mini where you pay $5 for the device but get $5 of toll credit in return. I expect the E-ZPass transponder costs more than the SunPass Mini, though, so I suppose it's not unreasonable.
I should also point out that the fee as approved for standard transponders is one of the lowest around (other than free, of course) and matches Pennsylvania and Ohio's fees. It is also half the cost of New Jersey's and $1 per month less than its neighbor, Maryland.
Except for the waived fee if MD tolls are used at least 3 times in a month, I don't know who would go with an E-ZPass Flex from MD over one in VA.
Quote from: Alex on July 09, 2012, 08:18:39 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 09, 2012, 08:09:26 PM
Does this now leave Massachusetts as the only state with a completely free E-ZPass?
Delaware (DelDOT not the DRBA) still does not levy a monthly fee. Though there were talks last summer of adding one due to budget shortfalls, nothing more has been said.
Going opposite, they reduced the $25 charge for new transponders to $15 just a few weeks ago...
I meant
completely free - no monthly fee, no initial fee or deposit.
Quote from: MASTERNC on July 09, 2012, 10:20:07 PM
Besides Delaware, New York's E-ZPass is free if you initially register with a New York address (you can then change the address out of state and be grandfathered in). Unless they repeal it, the free E-ZPass is written into law.
Yeah, reading up on NY it appears if you go with an MTA or NYSTA E-ZPass (but NOT PANYNJ) there is no monthly or initial fee (so long as you use autoreplenish and don't need paper statements).
So basically this leaves Mass and some NY accounts.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 10, 2012, 07:32:31 AM
....
Yeah, reading up on NY it appears if you go with an MTA or NYSTA E-ZPass (but NOT PANYNJ) there is no monthly or initial fee (so long as you use autoreplenish and don't need paper statements).
So basically this leaves Mass and some NY accounts.
I seem to recall some discussion somewhere on this forum where a number of people reported difficulty in getting a non—Port Authority E-ZPass from New York as an out-of-stater. I don't recall the details, but I'll try to search to see if I can exhume the other discussion. I seem to recall someone saying that they tried to enroll online with the Thruway Authority and the request was transferred to the Port Authority.
In the scheme of E-ZPass fees, New Jersey's fee in many ways "feels" the least objectionable to me because when you drive on their roads you can see them making improvements to the toll plazas and the like, such as reconstructing them with full-speed ORT lanes. It's a lot easier to stomach a fee when you see things like that, you know?
Edited to add: Here is the prior thread I was remembering: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5355.msg117176#msg117176
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 09, 2012, 08:09:26 PM
Does this now leave Massachusetts as the only state with a completely free E-ZPass?
Illinois has no service fee.
Mike
OTOH, Illinois does require a $10 refundable deposit plus $40 in pre-paid tolls. The latter number is higher than many other E-ZPass consortium members' requirements.
Quote from: mgk920 on July 10, 2012, 11:21:02 AM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 09, 2012, 08:09:26 PM
Does this now leave Massachusetts as the only state with a completely free E-ZPass?
Illinois has no service fee.
Mike
Yes but as I keep saying, by
completely free I mean neither a monthly fee NOR an initial fee. I guess you could technically include Illinois with the free ones though, because, as 1995hoo said, while there is an initial $10 fee it is refundable.
Quote from: Alex on July 09, 2012, 08:18:39 PM
Delaware (DelDOT not the DRBA) still does not levy a monthly fee. Though there were talks last summer of adding one due to budget shortfalls, nothing more has been said.
DRBA has a monthly fee, we used to have our E-ZPass through that customer service center until they started charging fees. They have since merged operations with the NJ customer service center which also has the fee.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 10, 2012, 09:08:42 AM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 10, 2012, 07:32:31 AM
....
Yeah, reading up on NY it appears if you go with an MTA or NYSTA E-ZPass (but NOT PANYNJ) there is no monthly or initial fee (so long as you use autoreplenish and don't need paper statements).
So basically this leaves Mass and some NY accounts.
I seem to recall some discussion somewhere on this forum where a number of people reported difficulty in getting a non—Port Authority E-ZPass from New York as an out-of-stater. I don't recall the details, but I'll try to search to see if I can exhume the other discussion. I seem to recall someone saying that they tried to enroll online with the Thruway Authority and the request was transferred to the Port Authority.
In the scheme of E-ZPass fees, New Jersey's fee in many ways "feels" the least objectionable to me because when you drive on their roads you can see them making improvements to the toll plazas and the like, such as reconstructing them with full-speed ORT lanes. It's a lot easier to stomach a fee when you see things like that, you know?
Edited to add: Here is the prior thread I was remembering: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5355.msg117176#msg117176
Yes that was the thread I started. I bought the NY tag and registered it to my grandfather's Buffalo address for a few days, and then changed it to my PA address. I have never been charged a monthly fee.
TOLLROADSnews: Virginia sees major growth in electronic tolling - new monthly transponder fees (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/6043)
Quote from: MASTERNC on July 10, 2012, 10:25:24 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 10, 2012, 09:08:42 AM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 10, 2012, 07:32:31 AM
....
Yeah, reading up on NY it appears if you go with an MTA or NYSTA E-ZPass (but NOT PANYNJ) there is no monthly or initial fee (so long as you use autoreplenish and don't need paper statements).
So basically this leaves Mass and some NY accounts.
I seem to recall some discussion somewhere on this forum where a number of people reported difficulty in getting a nonPort Authority E-ZPass from New York as an out-of-stater. I don't recall the details, but I'll try to search to see if I can exhume the other discussion. I seem to recall someone saying that they tried to enroll online with the Thruway Authority and the request was transferred to the Port Authority.
In the scheme of E-ZPass fees, New Jersey's fee in many ways "feels" the least objectionable to me because when you drive on their roads you can see them making improvements to the toll plazas and the like, such as reconstructing them with full-speed ORT lanes. It's a lot easier to stomach a fee when you see things like that, you know?
Edited to add: Here is the prior thread I was remembering: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5355.msg117176#msg117176
Yes that was the thread I started. I bought the NY tag and registered it to my grandfather's Buffalo address for a few days, and then changed it to my PA address. I have never been charged a monthly fee.
I think you can also buy an E-ZPass to go pack. Since you purchase the tag and they hand it to you on the spot, presumably it would be that agency's tag...meaning if you purchase an E-ZPass in a cash lane at an MTA bridge/Tunnel in NYC, you should get an MTA branded tag. Then you can register it wherever you darn well please and not pay the fee.
They also sell Thruway tags at the service areas.
Might depend on where you get E-ZPass to go. I think I heard something that a tag can be transferred on account registration, and at least with the tag I got at Wegmans, the tags don't come pre-registered.
Quote from: deanej on July 11, 2012, 01:14:51 PM
Might depend on where you get E-ZPass to go. I think I heard something that a tag can be transferred on account registration, and at least with the tag I got at Wegmans, the tags don't come pre-registered.
I bought from a Wegmans in Buffalo. It had a NYS Thruway logo on it but I didn't want to take any chances, hence the initial registration to a NY address. The terms sheet inside also listed the PANJNY fee on it.
TOLLROADSnews: 2% of VA/E-ZPass accounts unused for 12 months (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/6049)
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 12, 2012, 11:04:50 AM
TOLLROADSnews: 2% of VA/E-ZPass accounts unused for 12 months (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/6049)
I used to have a Virginia-issued Smart Tag and a New Jersey—issued E-ZPass back in the days before Virginia joined the E-ZPass consortium. Once the devices became interchangeable I kept both of them for awhile and loaned the Smart Tag to my then-girlfriend (now my wife). But she didn't drive very often and so it was the New Jersey device that saw all the activity. After a year of inactivity Virginia sent me a letter saying my account would be cancelled unless I called them to say I wanted to keep it active, which of course I did. They said the customer agreement says you agree to use the device at least once every six months or they reserve the right to cancel the account. I haven't bothered to look at the agreement to see if that's accurate because that was maybe a year or two after New Jersey started charging the $1 a month fee, so I got a second Virginia-issued device and (once that device arrived) cancelled the New Jersey account. Since both devices are on the Virginia account it's pretty much guaranteed that I'll at least use the Dulles Toll Road at some point on the way to a golf course.
The E-ZPass's battery still wears out regardless of whether the device is used, and when it dies they replace the entire transponder, so I suppose there's some level of cost involved even with dormant accounts. I wonder if there's some way they could roll out a no-battery device that would act as a permanent transponder not needing replacement. It might involve more up-front cost to develop the device, but it might save them money in the long run by eliminating the need to replace the transponders. I don't necessarily mean a device like the SunPass Mini, either, because of the way Florida misleads people into thinking that device must be permanently fastened to the windshield (meaning it's destroyed if you scrape it off when you replace your windshield or get a new car). Based on advice from people on this forum I used scotch tape to attach my SunPass Mini and it works fine, but I'd wager most people simply follow the instructions that came with the device. If the goal is truly to make the transponder cheaper, then a design that does not ask the user to fasten it permanently (even if it's not strictly necessary to do so) seems like a better idea.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 12, 2012, 11:19:38 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 12, 2012, 11:04:50 AM
TOLLROADSnews: 2% of VA/E-ZPass accounts unused for 12 months (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/6049)
I used to have a Virginia-issued Smart Tag and a New Jersey–issued E-ZPass back in the days before Virginia joined the E-ZPass consortium. Once the devices became interchangeable I kept both of them for awhile and loaned the Smart Tag to my then-girlfriend (now my wife). But she didn't drive very often and so it was the New Jersey device that saw all the activity. After a year of inactivity Virginia sent me a letter saying my account would be cancelled unless I called them to say I wanted to keep it active, which of course I did. They said the customer agreement says you agree to use the device at least once every six months or they reserve the right to cancel the account. I haven't bothered to look at the agreement to see if that's accurate because that was maybe a year or two after New Jersey started charging the $1 a month fee, so I got a second Virginia-issued device and (once that device arrived) cancelled the New Jersey account. Since both devices are on the Virginia account it's pretty much guaranteed that I'll at least use the Dulles Toll Road at some point on the way to a golf course.
The E-ZPass's battery still wears out regardless of whether the device is used, and when it dies they replace the entire transponder, so I suppose there's some level of cost involved even with dormant accounts. I wonder if there's some way they could roll out a no-battery device that would act as a permanent transponder not needing replacement. It might involve more up-front cost to develop the device, but it might save them money in the long run by eliminating the need to replace the transponders. I don't necessarily mean a device like the SunPass Mini, either, because of the way Florida misleads people into thinking that device must be permanently fastened to the windshield (meaning it's destroyed if you scrape it off when you replace your windshield or get a new car). Based on advice from people on this forum I used scotch tape to attach my SunPass Mini and it works fine, but I'd wager most people simply follow the instructions that came with the device. If the goal is truly to make the transponder cheaper, then a design that does not ask the user to fasten it permanently (even if it's not strictly necessary to do so) seems like a better idea.
I agree about the permanent mountings - something like a clip-on to the sun visor would be much better. As for the "return your dead transponder to us for a new one (so we can charge you the legislatively mandated minimum fee as well)" practice, I have a much simpler and better idea. Re-design the transponder so the battery can be easily replaced when it goes flat (like most every other battery-powered device known to man).
The only costs I see here with people that are inactive are the time, labor, and postage VDOT spends to send letters to account holders that they consider "dormant". If an individual only uses a transponder a few times a year (like going on vacation), that's still fewer cash transactions.
Quote from: roadman on July 12, 2012, 03:29:04 PMI agree about the permanent mountings - something like a clip-on to the sun visor would be much better.
You can buy a little plastic case that attaches to the windshield with suction cups, into which the EZPass slides. That's what I have in my Saturn Vue, and it works fine -- even with the Velcro tape attached to it that I use to stick it in my old truck when or if I need to, or if my wife uses it in her vehicle.
I got mine on eBay.
Quote from: roadman on July 12, 2012, 03:29:04 PM
I agree about the permanent mountings - something like a clip-on to the sun visor would be much better. As for the "return your dead transponder to us for a new one (so we can charge you the legislatively mandated minimum fee as well)" practice, I have a much simpler and better idea. Re-design the transponder so the battery can be easily replaced when it goes flat (like most every other battery-powered device not made by Apple known to man).
Fixed.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 12, 2012, 09:02:48 PM
Quote from: roadman on July 12, 2012, 03:29:04 PMI agree about the permanent mountings - something like a clip-on to the sun visor would be much better.
You can buy a little plastic case that attaches to the windshield with suction cups, into which the EZPass slides. That's what I have in my Saturn Vue, and it works fine -- even with the Velcro tape attached to it that I use to stick it in my old truck when or if I need to, or if my wife uses it in her vehicle.
I got mine on eBay.
I think he was addressing my comment about Florida's SunPass Mini, which is a very different device similar to a Transcore gate opener. The instructions that come with the SunPass Mini tell you to peel off the backing and mount it permanently and that it won't work unless you do this (not true, mine works fine with scotch tape). It matters because if you mount it as they say, you can't remove it–it becomes inoperative, presumably because scraping it off damages the wiring or something.
I once mounted a Smart Tag (which looked just like an E-ZPass) with masking tape when I was riding with my parents in their car. Worked fine.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 13, 2012, 07:55:51 PM
I once mounted a Smart Tag (which looked just like an E-ZPass) with masking tape when I was riding with my parents in their car. Worked fine.
It looked like an E-ZPass because Virginia's SmarTag (f/k/a FasToll) transponders
were E-ZPass transponders. All were made by Mark IV Industries (now Kapsch TrafficCom).
Only difference was that Virginia had not seen fit to join the E-ZPass IAG (Inter Agency Group) until then-Gov. Mark Warner instructed the Virginia Department of Transportation to join, which it did.
The last toll crossing in Virginia to start accepting E-ZPass might have been the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel, or maybe the RMA toll roads in and near Richmond, but I believe all are in the E-ZPass fold now.
Would that the National Park Service would start accepting E-ZPass for payment on the Skyline Drive through Shenandoah National Park (though at least in theory, that payment is an entrance fee and not a toll).
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 13, 2012, 08:10:12 PM
Would that the National Park Service would start accepting E-ZPass for payment on the Skyline Drive through Shenandoah National Park (though at least in theory, that payment is an entrance fee and not a toll).
Who says that has to stop them? I know of plenty of places you can pay for parking with an E-ZPass, and I believe there was even a McDonald's that tried letting customers pay for their order with their E-ZPass, so why not let people pay an NPS entrance fee with it.
QuoteIt looked like an E-ZPass because Virginia's SmarTag (f/k/a FasToll) transponders were E-ZPass transponders. All were made by Mark IV Industries (now Kapsch TrafficCom).
Yes, I know. When Warner was elected I sent him a letter complaining about Virginia not joining E-ZPass and his secretary of transportation wrote back that they were going to change it and that Warner "does not understand his predecessor's thought process on this issue."
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 13, 2012, 08:26:27 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 13, 2012, 08:10:12 PM
Would that the National Park Service would start accepting E-ZPass for payment on the Skyline Drive through Shenandoah National Park (though at least in theory, that payment is an entrance fee and not a toll).
Who says that has to stop them? I know of plenty of places you can pay for parking with an E-ZPass, and I believe there was even a McDonald's that tried letting customers pay for their order with their E-ZPass, so why not let people pay an NPS entrance fee with it.
The NPS might not be innovative-thinking enough to take E-ZPass, though they should.
Only places I have heard of that accept E-ZPass for payment of parking are at the Port Authority of N.Y. and N.J. airports. There may be other places, but I have not heard of them.
Would have been nice if WMATA (Washington Metro) had seen fit to allow payment by E-ZPass at its parking lots and parking decks.
Never heard of any fast food places in the East that accepted payment by E-ZPass, but there were some places in Southern California that accepted FasTrak (the California statewide electronic toll collection transponder).
I think more places may start to accept E-ZPass in the coming years.
I would love it if the toll bridges between NY and ON would accept E-ZPass (currently only the Peace Bridge does), but at least one (Thousand Islands Bridge Authority) has complained that it would be "too expensive" so it might not happen.
Richmond Times-Dispatch: For E-ZPass users, VDOT fee changes are not adding up (http://www2.timesdispatch.com/business/news/2012/jul/14/tdmain01-e-zpass-transponders-cost-higher-for-user-ar-2056110/)
QuoteE-ZPass transponders cost the Virginia Department of Transportation $9 or $18 each, but users will pay from $48 to $120 to use the transponders over the devices' lifetime under the state's fee plan.
Quote"We're not making a profit off this," state VDOT Commissioner Gregory A. Whirley Sr. said.
QuoteBut the department says it needs the money to support the expected sharp expansion in E-ZPass use with new electronically tolled roads coming into operation by the end of 2012. It anticipates the new transponder fee will bring in an average of $5.9 million a year over five years.
Quote from: deanej on July 14, 2012, 10:31:38 AM
I would love it if the toll bridges between NY and ON would accept E-ZPass (currently only the Peace Bridge does), but at least one (Thousand Islands Bridge Authority) has complained that it would be "too expensive" so it might not happen.
I'm all in favor of having these accept E-ZPass, just to eliminate the need to use cash when using those crossings. However, the increased throughput gained from accepting E-ZPass seems much less important when the real bottleneck is likely clearing customs. You really only need to collect tolls as quickly as you can process cars through customs.
With regards to New York, in about 2006 or so they created a blanket "New York EZPass Service Center" which all customers go through, regardless of which agency issues their tag. Anyone who signed up with a specific agency prior to that is still with that agency, but post 2006, NYC and Long Island residents get sent to the MTA, the rest of the state gets sent to NYSTA, and anyone from out of state gets sent to PANYNJ.
This is all the fallout of the MTA wanting to start charging a fee and Albany refusing to let them. Albany likes starving the MTA of cash.
This, annoyingly, means that residents of Connecticut (which has no tolls and thus no EZPass issuing agency) cannot get a fee-free tag unless they go to Massachusetts. My parents signed up with the MTA in 2004 and are grandfathered in feeless. But my uncle never signed up and now refuses to since he doesn't want to pay the fee for a service he uses maybe a few times a year.
It should be noted that EZPass toll discounts on the Thruway and on MTA crossings are only given to EZPass customers with an EZPass registered in New York. In the MTA's case, it's a substantial discount: $4.80 instead of $6.50 - that's 26%. The Port Authority's discounts are even greater ($7.50 off-peak, $9.50 peak instead of $12.00), but they go to everyone, as far as I'm aware.
What happens if the person with, say, an MTA account moves out-of-state? Does the account get transferred to the Port Authority when the customer changes his address? I really ask mainly out of curiosity; while I COULD try registering one using my aunt's address at Breezy Point and then changing it, I no longer drive to New York often enough to make it worth the bother.
Quote from: Jim on July 14, 2012, 12:44:47 PM
Quote from: deanej on July 14, 2012, 10:31:38 AM
I would love it if the toll bridges between NY and ON would accept E-ZPass (currently only the Peace Bridge does), but at least one (Thousand Islands Bridge Authority) has complained that it would be "too expensive" so it might not happen.
I'm all in favor of having these accept E-ZPass, just to eliminate the need to use cash when using those crossings. However, the increased throughput gained from accepting E-ZPass seems much less important when the real bottleneck is likely clearing customs. You really only need to collect tolls as quickly as you can process cars through customs.
Not true of the Thousand Islands Bridge (TIB) thanks to the islands in the middle, nor the Whirlpool Bridge since it's Nexus-only, but my motivation is to not have to fumble with my wallet anyways. I believe the TIB accepts credit cards, but I haven't verified this myself.
Not that the Seaway Bridge can do anything anyways, given the current situation. Apparently the customs dispute caused the toll plaza to have to move as well.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 14, 2012, 04:46:58 PM
What happens if the person with, say, an MTA account moves out-of-state? Does the account get transferred to the Port Authority when the customer changes his address? I really ask mainly out of curiosity; while I COULD try registering one using my aunt's address at Breezy Point and then changing it, I no longer drive to New York often enough to make it worth the bother.
You get grandfathered in.
On this note, the PA Turnpike will become one of the cheapest E-ZPass providers that charges a fee. They are actually decreasing the annual fee on January 1, 2013 from $6 per tag to $3 (essentially 25 cents per month).