Florida has a drivers license program "Safe Driver". The requirements to benefit this program are 1- No tickets or at-fault accidents since your last dl renewal. 2- You qualify to have a 6 yr license, the regular license renewal is 3 yrs. Another benefit is you can renew your dl & vehicle plate online.
Some related questions
What do you call the license plate on your vehicle ie-"license plate", "tag", I call it a tag.
Does your state use a point system for tickets etc.? FL does tho I'm not familiar with it b/c I haven't had a ticket in 9+yrs :clap:
How long have you held a dl? I got my 1st dl in 1969 (49 yrs) @ Ft Bragg, NC. I was required to take a state drivers education class that took 4 weeks from my school summer vacation but it was worth it. Nearly every job I've had was driving some kind of vehicle, taxi cab, newspaper delivery by car, 6 wheel vegetable truck, 18 wheeler & a string bean picker tractor with Green Giant ho, ho, ho :bigass:
Hell I miss Arizona where I could have kept my same license from 21 to 65... When did this safe driver thing start? I don't remember it being a thing when I left Florida in 2016.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 01:17:53 AM
Hell I miss Arizona where I could have kept my same license from 21 to 65... When did this safe driver thing start? I don't remember it being a thing when I left Florida in 2016.
It appears to have started either in 2011 or just last year.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 01:17:53 AM
Hell I miss Arizona where I could have kept my same license from 21 to 65... When did this safe driver thing start? I don't remember it being a thing when I left Florida in 2016.
Arizona licenses are terrible for anyone who has to actually use them, though. It's hard to identify if someone is the person in a picture if it was taken when they were 21 and they've aged 20 years. Addresses are often three or four moves old. Also, some people don't take care of their licenses very well and let them get bashed up, scratched, warped, etc. so they're impossible to read electronically. In other states, the card gets replaced and the information updated every 4 years or so, but because of the long expiration term in Arizona, lots of people don't bother.
I believe "tag" as the term for a license plate is a Southern expression; it's what they're called in GA. There, until the late 90s or so, the license plate stayed with the car when it was sold.
Virginia driver's licenses used to be valid for five years, expiring on the last day of your birth month (so if your birthday were today, it'd expire on Dec. 31). They changed it a few years ago and now it's eight years, expiring on your birthday. You can usually renew online every other renewal–"usually" because there are exceptions if you get too many moving violations or commit certain other violations. The problem with all this is that your vision is only tested when you have to renew in person, meaning it's absolutely certain there are people out there getting their eyes checked once every sixteen years. That's pretty bad–but I guess Arizona is a lot worse. Your eyes can change a lot in a much shorter time than even eight years.
I've long thought there needs to be some way to try to make people keep up on new developments in driving or changes in the standard of care. It's sort of like riding a bike–while you were probably taught in the 1970s at school that to ride at night you need front and rear reflectors, that doesn't mean having just reflectors is safe or legal these days, as many states rightly require lights now. Too many people think "I was taught XYZ when I learned to drive in 1969, so you're wrong if you say to do ABC instead." That's a problem.
As far as license plates, I've always called them license plates, or just "plates" if the context is clear, probably because that's what my parents called them. I wouldn't find it odd if someone called them "tags," though (such as "Florida doesn't require a front tag" ).
Virginia has a point system, but I haven't had to worry about it.
Quote from: allniter89 on December 28, 2018, 01:10:31 AM
Florida has a drivers license program "Safe Driver". The requirements to benefit this program are 1- No tickets or at-fault accidents since your last dl renewal. 2- You qualify to have a 6 yr license, the regular license renewal is 3 yrs. Another benefit is you can renew your dl & vehicle plate online.
Never heard of such a thing. Since it is predicated on avoiding the random taxers, as all traffic enforcement is illigitimate, it is unfair.
In WV, anyone can renew a plate on line, which includes a link to the county sheriff's data base (in WV you need last year's tax receipt to get next year's plates). The state also is rolling out ATM like devices for doing all transactions, including DL renewals, at places like Kroger. The only reason to go to the DMV in person is if you have a problem.
Quote
Some related questions
What do you call the license plate on your vehicle ie-"license plate", "tag", I call it a tag.
License plate or just plate.
Quote
Does your state use a point system for tickets etc.?
Yes, part of the scam. In WV less than 10 is no points, so some random taxers will perjure themselves, which is a little like a rapist wearing a condom. Some towns add to the random tax with an online traffic school where the only question is "what is your credit card number?" and no report the ticket to the state (which they are required to do) for an extra couple hundred. Which is, of course, extortion and failure to perform a mandatory duty, but no one does anything about it.
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How long have you held a dl?
Since the day I turned 16. There when they opened the door.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 28, 2018, 04:33:22 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 01:17:53 AM
Hell I miss Arizona where I could have kept my same license from 21 to 65... When did this safe driver thing start? I don't remember it being a thing when I left Florida in 2016.
Arizona licenses are terrible for anyone who has to actually use them, though. It's hard to identify if someone is the person in a picture if it was taken when they were 21 and they've aged 20 years. Addresses are often three or four moves old. Also, some people don't take care of their licenses very well and let them get bashed up, scratched, warped, etc. so they're impossible to read electronically. In other states, the card gets replaced and the information updated every 4 years or so, but because of the long expiration term in Arizona, lots of people don't bother.
If I recall correctly it was a ticketable offense not to update your current address on your license. I want to say my photo was about 10 years behind by the time I got around to updating it...granted I look more or less the same 15 years on from my 21 year adult AZ license. It was just nice to get some sort break from the Draconian registration fees AZ is known for.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on December 28, 2018, 03:46:13 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 01:17:53 AM
Hell I miss Arizona where I could have kept my same license from 21 to 65... When did this safe driver thing start? I don't remember it being a thing when I left Florida in 2016.
It appears to have started either in 2011 or just last year.
I updated my license three times when I was in Florida, I guess that I never noticed the program existed because the last one was shortly after the second year. Hell, I should have got one for somehow managing never to have an accident of any kind in Key West or driving US 1 every day for over a year.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 10:21:25 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 28, 2018, 04:33:22 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 01:17:53 AM
Hell I miss Arizona where I could have kept my same license from 21 to 65... When did this safe driver thing start? I don't remember it being a thing when I left Florida in 2016.
Arizona licenses are terrible for anyone who has to actually use them, though. It's hard to identify if someone is the person in a picture if it was taken when they were 21 and they've aged 20 years. Addresses are often three or four moves old. Also, some people don't take care of their licenses very well and let them get bashed up, scratched, warped, etc. so they're impossible to read electronically. In other states, the card gets replaced and the information updated every 4 years or so, but because of the long expiration term in Arizona, lots of people don't bother.
If I recall correctly it was a ticketable offense not to update your current address on your license. I want to say my photo was about 10 years behind by the time I got around to updating it...granted I look more or less the same 15 years on from my 21 year adult AZ license. It was just nice to get some sort break from the Draconian registration fees AZ is known for.
I'm pretty sure it's the law that you have to update your address X days after moving everywhere, I just don't know how they'd know your address wasn't current barring some extraordinary circumstance. I was pretty religious about updating mine after being in NYC for Halloween one year and seeing some residents who couldn't get back to their homes because the police had closed the block due to overcrowding on the streets and they had no way to prove they lived there.
It wasn't all that long ago (ok, probably going on 20 years now) that NJ didn't even require you to have a photo on your license! I believe your first license it was required, but after that you didn't need it. Obviously, those simpler times have changed!
NJ licenses are good for 4 years. After the 4 years you can elect to keep the same picture, and just mail in your renewal. At the 8 year point you must go in to get a new pic though. Most other normal stuff (registration renewals, etc) can be done via the internet. NJ also doesn't fully comply with the Real ID stuff yet, which they are supposed to start doing in the Spring of 2019.
NJ tends to use both terms (Plates & Tags). It appears that the NJMVC tends to say tags for Temporary Tags and plates for actual license plates, but the terms are often used interchangeably by both the government and public.
Got my DL on my 17th birthday; the first day one can get a license in NJ.
NJ uses a point system, starting at 2 points for minor traffic offenses. Nice cops are well versed in what offenses don't carry points, so it's quite common for someone to be given a seat belt violation ($46) rather than a minor speeding ticket ($90 or so and 2 points for up to 14 over the limit), or a reduced fine (14 over the limit; 2 points) rather than a larger violation/fine (ie: up to 29 over the limit, which is 4 points).
And yet, some people are stupid about this. Take this story here: https://www.nj.com/morris/index.ssf/2015/12/dashcam_clears_cop_accused_of_pulling_gun_on_woman.html . A person was pulled over for failing to stop at a stop sign. The cop simply gave her a ticket for not changing her address on her license; dropping a $86, 2 point ticket to a very minor $26 fine (who knew NJ had a violation with such a small amount). Instead, the woman tries to claim the officer pulled a gun on her, which a dash cam clearly showed didn't happen. Instead of accepting the break given to her and a $26 ticket, she was arrested.
Most, if not all, states strengthened their DL requirements after 9/11 - I distinctly recall being able to obtain a VA DL in the summer of 2001 by showing my GA DL and a magazine addressed to me at my Alexandria address as proof of residency.
Kansas does not offer driver license renewal online. Vehicle registration renewal is available online, but through an app whose providers have been criticized for requiring customers to agree to storage of their personal data outside the US even though this is not allowed by state law or by the providers' contract with the state. There are no special benefits for keeping a clean driver's license. Kansas does not have a points system as such, but suspends driver's licenses if more than three moving violations accumulate during a set period (I think one year). The default term of validity for driver's licenses used to be four years but is now six years. It is still four years for people above a certain age threshold and possibly also for holders that have not accumulated enough traffic offenses to have their licenses suspended.
As part of the renewal process for driver's licenses, Kansas attempts to void the old license by cutting into it with scissors. I understand that this voiding is obligatory for any driver's license with more than three weeks of validity remaining. New licenses are centrally produced in Topeka and sent through the mail, so anyone going through the renewal process who has had his or her license voided is covered only by a flimsy thermal paper receipt. I question whether it suffices to prevent a Kansas driver from being charged for driving without a license if he or she is stopped in another state.
I have been licensed to drive in Kansas since 1992 and in that time have received just one ticket, for 66 in a workzone 55 in 1996. While driving I have been stopped by the police in three countries (US, Mexico, and Ireland). In addition to my Kansas driver's license, I have an old-style British paper driving licence that is valid through the day before my 70th birthday. I don't have to do anything with it right now, but if my entitlements change (e.g., I pass a driving test for a new category of vehicle), I will have to send it in for replacement and also apply for a photocard with ten-year validity.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 28, 2018, 10:58:26 AM
It wasn't all that long ago (ok, probably going on 20 years now) that NJ didn't even require you to have a photo on your license!
My first DL was just a credit card sized card with raised letters and numbers as on a credit card. Standard info (DOB, gender, height, weight, etc) which meant it really could belong to most anybody. But they took it as ID everywhere.
Friend of mine had a PA DL that had a box that said "valid without photo" where the photo should be, because he was attending school out of state when his renewal came up. Pre 9-11, of course.
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Nice cops are well versed in what offenses don't carry points...
Nice cops, which are the vast majority of American law enforcement who do the thankless job of fighting crime, have no role in traffic enforcement in the first place. They are heroes and deserve our praise. Random taxers dress in similar uniforms. No other relationship.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 28, 2018, 11:49:12 AMAs part of the renewal process for driver's licenses, Kansas attempts to void the old license by cutting into it with scissors. I understand that this voiding is obligatory for any driver's license with more than three weeks of validity remaining. New licenses are centrally produced in Topeka and sent through the mail, so anyone going through the renewal process who has had his or her license voided is covered only by a flimsy thermal paper receipt. I question whether it suffices to prevent a Kansas driver from being charged for driving without a license if he or she is stopped in another state.
Its the same in IL now and (I believe) will be in every jurisdiction once they're REAL ID compliant. In IL, they let you keep your old ID (with a hole punched in it) and ask you to carry that around with your temporary paper license. I can't see why a LEO wouldn't consider that to be your driver's license (and remember that "driving without license in possession" is a separate, and lesser, charge than "driving without a valid license" ).
New York State used to give paper temporary licenses with no picture, which bouncers didn't consider to be proof of age. I used to have to carry my passport around to get into bars while I was waiting for them to mail me my real license.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 28, 2018, 10:48:36 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 10:21:25 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 28, 2018, 04:33:22 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 01:17:53 AM
Hell I miss Arizona where I could have kept my same license from 21 to 65... When did this safe driver thing start? I don't remember it being a thing when I left Florida in 2016.
Arizona licenses are terrible for anyone who has to actually use them, though. It's hard to identify if someone is the person in a picture if it was taken when they were 21 and they've aged 20 years. Addresses are often three or four moves old. Also, some people don't take care of their licenses very well and let them get bashed up, scratched, warped, etc. so they're impossible to read electronically. In other states, the card gets replaced and the information updated every 4 years or so, but because of the long expiration term in Arizona, lots of people don't bother.
If I recall correctly it was a ticketable offense not to update your current address on your license. I want to say my photo was about 10 years behind by the time I got around to updating it...granted I look more or less the same 15 years on from my 21 year adult AZ license. It was just nice to get some sort break from the Draconian registration fees AZ is known for.
I'm pretty sure it's the law that you have to update your address X days after moving everywhere, I just don't know how they'd know your address wasn't current barring some extraordinary circumstance. I was pretty religious about updating mine after being in NYC for Halloween one year and seeing some residents who couldn't get back to their homes because the police had closed the block due to overcrowding on the streets and they had no way to prove they lived there.
Well that's the thing, you'd be surprised how honest some people get when they are questioned by someone in authority especially during a traffic stop. I've always been amused at how many people willingly let a police officer search their entire car without cause simply because they asked if they could.
Regarding the number of days, I want to say it might have been 7? I have my old AZ Revised Statutes guide out in the garage somewhere but it is probably considerably out of date by now.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 12:24:45 PM
Well that's the thing, you'd be surprised how honest some people get when they are questioned by someone in authority especially during a traffic stop. I've always been amused at how many people willingly let a police officer search their entire car without cause simply because they asked if they could.
Regarding the number of days, I want to say it might have been 7? I have my old AZ Revised Statutes guide out in the garage somewhere but it is probably considerably out of date by now.
The question is, how do you push back? It's well-known that they can give you trouble if you refuse, even if they're not supposed to, and most people just want the whole thing to be over with ASAP.
Quote from: vdeane on December 28, 2018, 01:13:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 12:24:45 PM
Well that's the thing, you'd be surprised how honest some people get when they are questioned by someone in authority especially during a traffic stop. I've always been amused at how many people willingly let a police officer search their entire car without cause simply because they asked if they could.
Regarding the number of days, I want to say it might have been 7? I have my old AZ Revised Statutes guide out in the garage somewhere but it is probably considerably out of date by now.
The question is, how do you push back? It's well-known that they can give you trouble if you refuse, even if they're not supposed to, and most people just want the whole thing to be over with ASAP.
Trouble in regards to? If you got pulled over for a minor traffic infraction then I rather eat the ticket than giving permission to search my entire car without cause. About the only area that you couldn't stop an officer from searching is what is in plain in the passenger compartment. At worst you might get a K-9 unit sniffing your car, if it doesn't detect anything there is still no cause.
Quote from: vdeane on December 28, 2018, 01:13:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 12:24:45 PM
Well that's the thing, you'd be surprised how honest some people get when they are questioned by someone in authority especially during a traffic stop. I've always been amused at how many people willingly let a police officer search their entire car without cause simply because they asked if they could.
Regarding the number of days, I want to say it might have been 7? I have my old AZ Revised Statutes guide out in the garage somewhere but it is probably considerably out of date by now.
The question is, how do you push back? It's well-known that they can give you trouble if you refuse, even if they're not supposed to, and most people just want the whole thing to be over with ASAP.
You can tell a cop "no" when he/she asks to search the vehicle. Without any probable cause, they have no reason to do so.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 01:18:19 PM
Trouble in regards to? If you got pulled over for a minor traffic infraction then I rather eat the ticket than giving permission to search my entire car without cause. About the only area that you couldn't stop an officer from searching is what is in plain in the passenger compartment. At worst you might get a K-9 unit sniffing your car, if it doesn't detect anything there is still no cause.
They've been known to have the dog pretend to detect things just so they can search. Border Patrol is especially infamous for this. Or they might get more abrasive, invasive in questioning, etc. to build up a case for a search (especially since refusal could be interpreted as suspicious, in our "nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide" culture).
Quote from: vdeane on December 28, 2018, 01:13:41 PMThe question is, how do you push back? It's well-known that they can give you trouble if you refuse, even if they're not supposed to, and most people just want the whole thing to be over with ASAP.
How to push back: politely. Bartleby the Scrivener is a good model to follow. "I prefer not to say," etc.
As a practical matter, you cannot physically prevent LEOs from carrying out a warrantless search of your vehicle unless you are prepared to risk being charged with resisting arrest or assault on a LEO. The objective of asserting your rights against unreasonable search and seizure is to develop a record that will allow any evidence that is found to be excluded in a Mapp hearing.
In regard to searches by dogs, the Supreme Court has ruled that the police cannot force you to wait while a dog is transported to your vehicle. This is why LEOs on drug interdiction duty now usually have the dogs in their cars.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 10:21:25 AM
If I recall correctly it was a ticketable offense not to update your current address on your license.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 28, 2018, 10:48:36 AM
I'm pretty sure it's the law that you have to update your address X days after moving everywhere, I just don't know how they'd know your address wasn't current barring some extraordinary circumstance.
Here in Kansas, I was once given the option to have them update my address in the computer system
without actually issuing a new DL with the new address on it. I complied with the law by having my address updated in the system, but my address still wouldn't have matched if I was attempting to use it as ID.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 28, 2018, 12:17:11 PMIts the same in IL now and (I believe) will be in every jurisdiction once they're REAL ID compliant. In IL, they let you keep your old ID (with a hole punched in it) and ask you to carry that around with your temporary paper license. I can't see why a LEO wouldn't consider that to be your driver's license (and remember that "driving without license in possession" is a separate, and lesser, charge than "driving without a valid license" ).
Hmm--I was under the impression (possibly mistaken) that there were jurisdictions issuing REAL ID-compliant licenses that didn't require voiding of the old license.
After I was forced to have my last license voided (the only alternative was to back out of the renewal process and accept a refund), I looked into voiding procedures in other states. New York does not void, while Minnesota used to use scissors but now uses a VOID needle-hole punch through the photo. It was not clear to me how any voiding requirements are enforced when the driver declares the old license lost at renewal rather than supplying it.
As for the thermal paper receipt, I don't have any worries about it being accepted as proof of entitlement to drive if I am stopped in Kansas because in-state LEOs should know the score, but I really would not expect out-of-state LEOs to consider it credible. It is ridiculously easy to forge. I would much prefer it if Kansas followed the example of Washington state and issued a credit-card-sized temporary license printed in black and white on card stock.
Quote from: vdeane on December 28, 2018, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 01:18:19 PM
Trouble in regards to? If you got pulled over for a minor traffic infraction then I rather eat the ticket than giving permission to search my entire car without cause. About the only area that you couldn't stop an officer from searching is what is in plain in the passenger compartment. At worst you might get a K-9 unit sniffing your car, if it doesn't detect anything there is still no cause.
They've been known to have the dog pretend to detect things just so they can search. Border Patrol is especially infamous for this. Or they might get more abrasive, invasive in questioning, etc. to build up a case for a search (especially since refusal could be interpreted as suspicious, in our "nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide" culture).
Regarding the dogs, you're talking a pretty strong case for violating 4th amendment rights for saying the dog gave a "positive" when that wasn't actually the case. I suppose the ruse would be obvious if the officer was still asking you for permission at that point.
Regarding the "nothing to hide mentality," its asinine to me that so people take that mindset into regards to their own privacy. If an officer asks for your permission to search anything you have the right to say no and be done with it. Yeah, you might get questioned as to how legitimate that is but at the end of the day I think it's pretty reasonable to say no to a consent search.
Case and point, about 10 years ago I was pulled over by Tempe PD for not turning to the most extreme right lane. The officer said that I looked like some local drug dealer and asked if he could look inside my trunk. I stated that I wasn't a drug dealer and that I was not giving my permission to look inside my truck. The officer tried the whole bit about "well if you don't have anything to hide" but I politely held my ground and told him it wasn't happening without cause. I ended up with a ticket for the illegal right hand turn but that was end of it.
Regarding that right turn...I actually visited shift supervisor for Tempe PD later that week and explained that couldn't have made my turn without crossing two lanes of traffic from the parking lot I turned right out of. I was more surprised they ended up waiving my ticket more than anything, they certainly didn't have to but it saved me a $150 dollar fine and a point on my license.
Quote from: kphoger on December 28, 2018, 02:50:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 10:21:25 AM
If I recall correctly it was a ticketable offense not to update your current address on your license.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 28, 2018, 10:48:36 AM
I'm pretty sure it's the law that you have to update your address X days after moving everywhere, I just don't know how they'd know your address wasn't current barring some extraordinary circumstance.
Here in Kansas, I was once given the option to have them update my address in the computer system without actually issuing a new DL with the new address on it. I complied with the law by having my address updated in the system, but my address still wouldn't have matched if I was attempting to use it as ID.
You can update in California as well but mailing your change of address to the DMV. I actually had my old ID for awhile with my new address in the DMV system. I didn't bother changing my ID until I got an appointment for a real ID card.
Ohio Driver Licenses are for 4 years - must be renewed in person (new picture).
Ohio "License Plates" (what most of us in Ohio call them) are good for 1-5 years, depending on how many years you want to pay for at once - they can be renewed online. Last time I renewed, I renewed for 3 years. Your registration expires on your birthday.
I really don't know much about our point system, because in the 46 years I have been driving, I've only gotten one ticket*, and that was 30 years ago in New Hampshire when I lived there..
*not to say that I have only been stopped once, however :spin:
Regarding the REAL ID thing JN Winkler mentioned, Virginia gives you a choice–you can bring in the required documents to get a REAL ID—compliant license or you can get a renewal license that isn't compliant and won't be valid for boarding planes or the like once the feds start enforcing their little rules. I may not bother with getting the new type because my passport card will do the job.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 03:04:36 PMRegarding the dogs, you're talking a pretty strong case for violating 4th amendment rights for saying the dog gave a "positive" when that wasn't actually the case. I suppose the ruse would be obvious if the officer was still asking you for permission at that point.
The scenario of concern to civil libertarians is the police dog handler somehow signalling the dog to alert even when it does not smell drugs. I am not aware of any caselaw where police K-9 operators were required to demonstrate that they do not use such signals and do not train their dogs to respond to them.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 03:04:36 PMRegarding that right turn...I actually visited shift supervisor for Tempe PD later that week and explained that couldn't have made my turn without crossing two lanes of traffic from the parking lot I turned right out of. I was more surprised they ended up waiving my ticket more than anything, they certainly didn't have to but it saved me a $150 dollar fine and a point on my license.
My hometown PD does blitzes on turn-to-nearest-lane violations. 25 years ago, a pursuit that began with an improper turn snagged the then city manager, in a city-owned car, on his way out of a bar where he had had several drinks with a woman who was not his wife. (He received three traffic tickets but was not prosecuted for DUI because he blew 0.029, well under the 0.08 threshold for DUI, and Kansas does not have a lower limit for impairment. He was well-known for his
dirigiste tendencies and was not popular with rank-and-file police officers, but the police union was unsuccessful in its attempt to persuade the City Council to fire him under a city policy providing for the termination of city employees who drink and then drive a city-owned car.)
When I am making opposite-sense turns or lane changes separated by less than the required signalling envelope, I usually keep one finger on the turn signal stalk and flip it in the other direction midway through the turn, holding it as necessary to prevent auto-cancellation. I have never been stopped for making an improper turn, though I suppose a strict constructionist could argue that I should go out of my way (circling the block if necessary) so that I never enter the required signalling envelope without my signal blinking in the direction I intend to turn.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 28, 2018, 05:29:47 PMRegarding the REAL ID thing JN Winkler mentioned, Virginia gives you a choice–you can bring in the required documents to get a REAL ID—compliant license or you can get a renewal license that isn't compliant and won't be valid for boarding planes or the like once the feds start enforcing their little rules. I may not bother with getting the new type because my passport card will do the job.
Kansas offers the same choice, and there are still states (e.g., Missouri) that refuse to issue REAL ID-compliant licenses. I just went ahead and brought the paperwork required for REAL ID, using a passport to prove legal presence in the US, a voter registration card to prove address, a 1099 with untitivated SSN to prove SSN (my Social Security card has gone AWOL), and a credit union statement as backup. It all went down smooth as butter once I found myself in front of an examiner, though there was a document check on arrival and the clerk grumbled about my using a passport instead of a birth certificate and a 1099 instead of a Social Security card.
What really burns me is that with all of this hassle for REAL ID, Kansas still does not offer EDLs as an option, which leaves me without a WHTI-compliant document when my passport expires.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 28, 2018, 05:51:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2018, 03:04:36 PMRegarding the dogs, you're talking a pretty strong case for violating 4th amendment rights for saying the dog gave a "positive" when that wasn't actually the case. I suppose the ruse would be obvious if the officer was still asking you for permission at that point.
The scenario of concern to civil libertarians is the police dog handler somehow signalling the dog to alert even when it does not smell drugs. I am not aware of any caselaw where police K-9 operators were required to demonstrate that they do not use such signals and do not train their dogs to respond to them. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
As I understand it, the concern is that sniffer dogs are unintentionally taking cues from their handler. Basically what happens when you're out walking your dog and you see another dog or person that makes you nervous, and your dog gets aggressive with them. It's still a massive probable cause issue, if true, but it's not as bad as what you described.
And frankly, what makes me far more likely to cooperate with LEOs is the fact that they have guns and, as a group, they're very rarely indicted by a grand jury on manslaughter or murder charges, let alone convicted.
Plus the whole "nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide" thing is unfortunately very pervasive in modern society, to the point where it's starting to become a legal rationale.
Meanwhile, there's this: https://police4aqi.wordpress.com/2018/06/24/police-retaliation-for-refusing-a-request-to-allow-a-consensual-search/
CT does offer Real-ID, but does not offer an EDL for border crossing purposes. The majority of licenses were switched from 4 to 6 years about a decade ago. Seniors older than 70 have the option to renew on a yearly basis. All licenses expire on your birthday. I figured out the formula for the first two digits of the license: All begin with numbers from 01 to 24. These numbers correspond to the month you were born, and whether you were born in an odd or even year. For example, someone born in June of 1977 would have an 06 as the first two numbers, while someone born in October of 1992 would have a 22. I got my license about 8 months after I turned 16, but the law back then allowed 16 year olds to drive as a trainee if they were with a driver who was licensed for an extended period of time (ie, your parents). I must have driven a couple thousand miles before I got mine. Now, there is a graduated system with provisional restrictions that didn't exist when I was 16, such as only with experienced drivers or not at night. Licenses can be renewed at DMV or at a few AAA offices in most instances. I stress most instances because AAA made my mother go to a DMV office once because there was a truck driver with the same name who appeared in a national database as having a medical CDL suspension. They won't tell you why at AAA, but I got it out of the DMV worker as to why. And now CT has gone to snail mail to send you you license. Used to be that you would wait five minutes after you had your picture taken and you'd get it. Now, they give you a temporary license and mail it to you. In typical CT fashion, DMV created another level of bureaucracy and gave the ailing USPS a bone.
Vehicle registrations are good for 2 years. CT did away with stickers on the plates themselves then went to window decals for a while, but with the latest plates and with license plate reader technology, law enforcement can find expired tags just by holding up the reader as you drive past them. Emissions testing is also good for 2 years, with exemptions for newer cars, classic cars, and diesel powered vehicles. The emissions test is usually due a couple months after the registration.
Do any states that don't border Canada or Mexico offer EDLs? I can't see why they would, since they're only valid at land crossings, right?
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 29, 2018, 07:19:13 AM
Do any states that don't border Canada or Mexico offer EDLs? I can't see why they would, since they're only valid at land crossings, right?
EDLs are AFAIK only available in MI, MN, NY, VT, WA, BC, MB, and ON. I've got to believe demand for EDLs is extremely limited; folks who cross the border enough to justify the extra time/expense of getting an EDL would frequently be better-served by getting NEXUS, or probably can save a few bucks by getting a passport card.
Regarding CT's change to mailing drivers licenses -- the change was made to combat identity fraud, as there were instances of people going in and getting a DL or ID in someone else's name.
I renewed my CT DL this year. The AAA office gave me a printout copy of my new DL to use as a temporary license, and the card itself arrived in snail mail 3 days later. Easy-peasy, especially as compared to the rigmarole I went through at my prior renewal: I had to go into the DMV hellhole because (as I found out at the DMV) I pinged twice: someone else has the same name/birthdate in the CT DMV database, and also because my wife has a nearly identical name and same address.
The bit of CT DMV silliness that annoys me is that you have to have a CT DL or ID to do business with the DMV. My wife doesn't drive, and had been doing OK just a passport card as ID until we bought our current car. I wanted to have her on the title (in case something happens to me, less legal fuss)....but DMV refused until she got state ID.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 29, 2018, 07:19:13 AM
Do any states that don't border Canada or Mexico offer EDLs? I can't see why they would, since they're only valid at land crossings, right?
Sea crossing as well. I wonder about cruise lines travelling between non-border states.
Quote from: kphoger on December 29, 2018, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 29, 2018, 07:19:13 AM
Do any states that don't border Canada or Mexico offer EDLs? I can't see why they would, since they're only valid at land crossings, right?
Sea crossing as well. I wonder about cruise lines travelling between non-border states.
The only one I'm aware of is the ferry from Florida to Bimini.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 29, 2018, 12:58:56 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 29, 2018, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 29, 2018, 07:19:13 AM
Do any states that don't border Canada or Mexico offer EDLs? I can't see why they would, since they're only valid at land crossings, right?
Sea crossing as well. I wonder about cruise lines travelling between non-border states.
The only one I'm aware of is the ferry from Florida to Bimini.
There are cruise lines operating from Florida to Cozumel.
Quote from: Carnival Cruises Passport Requirements
Carnival Cruise Lines strongly recommends all of our guests travel with a valid passport. However, as of June 1, 2009, U.S. citizens embarking on a cruise that both originates and terminates at the same U.S. port are not required to have a passport, but will need proof of citizenship such as an original or certified copy of a birth certificate, a certificate of naturalization, a passport card, an enhanced driver's license () as well as a government-issued photo ID. Children are also required to bring proof of citizenship, and if 16 and over, a photo ID is also required.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on December 29, 2018, 10:59:40 AM
EDLs are AFAIK only available in MI, MN, NY, VT, WA, BC, MB, and ON. I've got to believe demand for EDLs is extremely limited; folks who cross the border enough to justify the extra time/expense of getting an EDL would frequently be better-served by getting NEXUS, or probably can save a few bucks by getting a passport card.
NY's EDL costs only $30 more than the regular licence, is valid for the same 8 year term, and the only additional documentation is the same stuff required for Real ID, so it's a pretty good deal. Would a passport card be cheaper? Marginally (same $30, but for 10 years instead of 8), but of course there's more waiting and bureaucracy for that. NEXUS, of course, has a LOT more bureaucracy and hassle than either of those, is only valid for 5 years, and costs more, so probably only really worth it if crossing multiple times a year.
Oddly enough, I've found that I've gotten less questioning when using my EDL than my passport at the border, at least on the US side (no difference entering Canada). I think it's because CBP likes to go through every single page, whereas CBSA doesn't seem to do that.
Regarding mailing your license, Virginia has been doing that for several years. I last renewed in 2013 and they mailed me mine. They did not void my old license because it had six weeks of validity left at the time. I kind of liked that because my old license was unrestricted, whereas my renewal (current one now) requires that I wear corrective lenses (glasses or contacts). Having my old one for those six weeks ensured that during that period I could have legally driven without glasses had I needed to do so (say, if my glasses got broken).
I've renewed my license once to a REALID one and it was a piece of cake. No hassle by the DMV rep. I think a lot of the shit the DMV gets it because people go in there unprepared and play dumb. And the staff try ridiculously hard to make sure everything's in line and every employee I've dealt with has been very professional.
Switching gears, I want to just mention NY state's weird learner permit reciprocity rules. Permit holders from any state are NOT allowed on public roads through parks within NYC's five boroughs, on any TriBorough B&T bridges or tunnels, and on the Hutch, Saw Mill, Cross County and Taconic State Parkways. The latter ONLY applies within Westchester County and does not include the Bronx River, Henry Hudson, Sprain Brook Parkways. So I guess in Valhalla you have to use NY 22 as your bypass.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 28, 2018, 05:29:47 PM
Regarding the REAL ID thing JN Winkler mentioned, Virginia gives you a choice–you can bring in the required documents to get a REAL ID—compliant license or you can get a renewal license that isn't compliant and won't be valid for boarding planes or the like once the feds start enforcing their little rules. I may not bother with getting the new type because my passport card will do the job.
Michigan allows the same choice, and there is no extra fee for a REAL ID-compliant license or ID card. It wasn't really necessary since I hold a passport, but I got one so that on the rare occasion that I fly domestically I won't also have to carry my passport.
Michigan also requires license renewal every four years, but only every other one can be done online. I renewed online when my license last expired in 2014, so I had to go to a Secretary of State office for this year's renewal to have the cursory vision test done and have a new photo taken. You can die of old age waiting in line at an SoS office, but many offices now allow you to schedule an appointment. I did that this year, and was in and out in less than 20 minutes.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 30, 2018, 09:06:29 PMRegarding mailing your license, Virginia has been doing that for several years. I last renewed in 2013 and they mailed me mine.
My understanding is that most if not all states that issue REAL ID licenses now produce the physical licenses at a central location and mail them to the holders because, although the REAL ID implementation regulations do not prohibit on-the-spot production outright, they impose requirements for physical security of the production facilities that are extremely expensive to meet at multiple DMV offices.
Different states also have had different pathways to REAL ID compliance. Kansas, for example, has been issuing REAL ID-compliant licenses since mid-2017. On the other hand, Minnesota has been doing so only since October 1, 2018, apparently because EDLs had already been available for several years and thus US citizens living in Minnesota already had an option for boarding airplanes and entering secure federal facilities. (EDLs cost more to produce than ordinary or REAL ID-compliant licenses because they have RFID chips similar to those now used in passport books and cards.)
Quote from: wanderer2575 on December 30, 2018, 11:30:08 PMMichigan also requires license renewal every four years, but only every other one can be done online. I renewed online when my license last expired in 2014, so I had to go to a Secretary of State office for this year's renewal to have the cursory vision test done and have a new photo taken. You can die of old age waiting in line at an SoS office, but many offices now allow you to schedule an appointment. I did that this year, and was in and out in less than 20 minutes.
The licensing authority in Kansas, the Division of Vehicles of the Kansas Department of Revenue, does not use appointments as a rationing mechanism. As a result, although Wichita has three driver licensing offices in the metro area, people approach driver license renewal with the mindset that they should go to Twin Lakes (the oldest and most well-known office) and be prepared to wait three hours or more. There is now a Q-Less system that allows customers to sign up online, but it is useless for holding your place in queue while you travel to your chosen licensing office because you are not actually inserted in the queue until you show up and check in. On the other hand, it has real-time waiting times at each office, so it is useful for spotting the least backlogged office.
The last time I renewed, I did so at the Derby office, which is about 40 minutes' drive from me. I was in front of an agent within five minutes. Since Twin Lakes is 10 minutes' drive from me and had a waiting time of about 90 minutes, I would have finished the errand within the same timeframe if I had gone to Twin Lakes. However, I feel I came out ahead because I infinitely prefer to drive 80 minutes total to wait less than five minutes rather than to sit at attention for 90 minutes waiting for my name or number to be called.