Radical administrative changes

[interstatefan990]

Fedex and UPS's domestic operations should merge into the existing US Postal Service.

[JayhawkCO]

Definitely in my area, I'd like to see the townships dissolved and all areas become incorporated. The township really has no reason to exist at this point.

For me it would not simply be city-county mergers, but city-all of its suburbs amalgamations, this for no other reason than to have the suburbanites vote in elections for mayors and city councils, for political balance and interest throughout the greater metropolitan communities.

Mike

No thank you. The suburbs being separate from the city is, I believe, the greatest deterrent of criminals committing crimes further out from the city. There's a higher chance they'd actually face real consequences if they tried some of the things they try in the city.

I also have no interest in being lumped in with the city. There's a reason suburbanites live in the suburbs and not in the city, and vice versa.

You think the reason there's more crime in "cities" than suburbs is because of the name of the suburb being different than the name of the city?

Yes, I do. I hear of lots of crime on the north side of Chicago, including the nicer areas, but it's less common to hear it happening in the suburbs. It still happens, but it's less commonplace.

So, if you took Logan Square and made it its own city, so it was no longer Chicago, you are surmising that the crime rate would go down?

[Scott5114]

- Prefectures and prefecture-level cities (like in China) would be added between states and counties.

WASTE. OF. MONEY.

You brought this stupid idea up before and couldn't justify it then.

[Roadgeekteen]

- Prefectures and prefecture-level cities (like in China) would be added between states and counties.

WASTE. OF. MONEY.

Money is not a factor in Poiponen13's communist utopia.

[Scott5114]

- Prefectures and prefecture-level cities (like in China) would be added between states and counties.

WASTE. OF. MONEY.

Money is not a factor in Poiponen13's socialist utopia.

No, it's coming up with the worst ideas possible and farting them out onto the forum to waste everyone's time.

[hotdogPi]

Does WP:NOTHERE exist on this forum? What about WP:CIR?

[interstatefan990]

What about city-states in the US? Like ancient Greece.

[Roadgeekteen]

In your opinion, who has worse ideas- Poiponen or MMM?

[Scott5114]

I think Poiponen13 should be merged with Ellis County, Kansas. He would then be too busy containing Hays to post to this forum.

[Scott5114]

Does WP:NOTHERE exist on this forum? What about WP:CIR?

No, but we do have AA:ELEMENTALP.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I like the city/suburb merging idea if for no other reason, then it will actually make the city's population reflect how many people actually live there verses having a metro all carved up into little thiefdoms.
For example, Ohio.  Columbus is like three times as large as Cincinnati or Cleveland if one just looks at the city proper.  But when one looks at the metro populations, all three are basically the same.

In practice, I doubt either suburbanites or city folk want anything to do with each other and would resist such a change tooth and nail.

My biggest problem is the original proposal was made for blatantly political reasons - wanting deep-blue cities to be blunted by more purple/red voters, even though those people don't actually live there. Why should someone who lives and works in Anoka get a say in Minneapolis city matters? And it's definitely a one-way street - they want Anoka to have say on Minneapolis, but Minneapolis to have no say on Anoka.

[Roadgeekteen]

I like the city/suburb merging idea if for no other reason, then it will actually make the city's population reflect how many people actually live there verses having a metro all carved up into little thiefdoms.
For example, Ohio.  Columbus is like three times as large as Cincinnati or Cleveland if one just looks at the city proper.  But when one looks at the metro populations, all three are basically the same.

In practice, I doubt either suburbanites or city folk want anything to do with each other and would resist such a change tooth and nail.

My biggest problem is the original proposal was made fpr blatantly political reasons - wanting deep-blue cities to be blunted by more purple/red voters, even though those people don't actually live there.

For politics, it depends on the city. In the Twin Cites or Chicago, the suburbs are still purple but moving left quickly. In Milwaukee, ths suburbs are still red. In Boston, the suburbs are almost as blue as the city.

[Scott5114]

I like the city/suburb merging idea if for no other reason, then it will actually make the city's population reflect how many people actually live there verses having a metro all carved up into little thiefdoms.
For example, Ohio.  Columbus is like three times as large as Cincinnati or Cleveland if one just looks at the city proper.  But when one looks at the metro populations, all three are basically the same.

In practice, I doubt either suburbanites or city folk want anything to do with each other and would resist such a change tooth and nail.

My biggest problem is the original proposal was made for blatantly political reasons - wanting deep-blue cities to be blunted by more purple/red voters, even though those people don't actually live there. Why should someone who lives and works in Anoka get a say in Minneapolis city matters? And it's definitely a one-way street - they want Anoka to have say on Minneapolis, but Minneapolis to have no say on Anoka.

Heh. This is kind of how Oklahoma City works, since it will annex anything that doesn't move. There are people who live way out in the country on a property with a double digit number of acres that get to vote in Oklahoma City elections.

[Dirt Roads]

All bodies don't have to be in capital.

Which reminds me.  A friend of mine in college who worked as a computer analyst for the United States Postal Service got into the national headlines back in the late-1980s when he wrote an editorial letter to the Washington Post about the fact that jobs inside the Beltway were too expensive for both the employee and the Federal government (ergo, the taxpayers).  He suggested that many lower level Federal employees would be better off working far away from the Capital.  Shortly after, he got a call from Senator You-know-who asking him if he would mind being a sponsor for relocating the USPS computing center to West Virginia.  Senator Byrd didn't get that one moved, but he is still well known for coaxing numerous Federal offices to the Mountain State.

[SectorZ]

I like the city/suburb merging idea if for no other reason, then it will actually make the city's population reflect how many people actually live there verses having a metro all carved up into little thiefdoms.
For example, Ohio.  Columbus is like three times as large as Cincinnati or Cleveland if one just looks at the city proper.  But when one looks at the metro populations, all three are basically the same.

In practice, I doubt either suburbanites or city folk want anything to do with each other and would resist such a change tooth and nail.

My biggest problem is the original proposal was made for blatantly political reasons - wanting deep-blue cities to be blunted by more purple/red voters, even though those people don't actually live there. Why should someone who lives and works in Anoka get a say in Minneapolis city matters? And it's definitely a one-way street - they want Anoka to have say on Minneapolis, but Minneapolis to have no say on Anoka.

In the case of many large cities, and I'll use Boston for an example 25 miles from me, that sometimes cities make decisions that have far reaching consequences for people who work in those cities, or even for the region as a whole. They tend to get what they want, and in the case of Boston its population is only a small fraction of greater Boston's total population.

I don't agree with suburbanites getting to vote in city matters, but I can see how the argument can be justified based on the above, enough to be given at least consideration for discussion. I'm against it just due to the unwieldy nature of it.

[kphoger]

Heh. This is kind of how Oklahoma City works, since it will annex anything that doesn't move. There are people who live way out in the country on a property with a double digit number of acres that get to vote in Oklahoma City elections.

I mean, it's hard to say that what happens in Oklahoma City "proper" doesn't affect them...

[Scott5114]

One of the many things President Trump tried was relocating the Bureau of Land Management to Grand Junction, CO. This sort of makes sense on paper since most of the land BLM manages is in the West, but Grand Junction in particular was a kind of poor choice because there aren't really a whole lot of direct flights from most places to Grand Junction. (Salt Lake, Las Vegas, or Reno probably would have been better choices.)

Unfortunately, the real problem with locating BLM in Colorado was that most of the people who had worked for BLM for years were quite happy living in the capital area and didn't want to lose all their friends, find new schools for their kids, have their spouses find new jobs, etc. by moving to Colorado. So the BLM that arrived in Grand Junction was a shell of the one that was in Washington, as the majority of the Washington employees quit rather than relocate. Being closer didn't really affect the job BLM did, either; apparently a lot of the management that goes on at BLM HQ is the sort you do in the office and doesn't involve actually going to the land being managed, so it didn't make a lot of difference whether that was happening in Colorado or DC.

The Biden administration moved BLM back to Washington DC upon taking office.

So this is what the result of the "All bodies don't have to be in capital" sentiment looks like in real life.

[bandit957]

What I would do for large central cities is divide the city into council wards so neighborhoods could have representation. Downtown would be run by the neighborhoods, instead of the other way around.

[bandit957]

Another thing I'd like to do for my own county is divide it into fiscal court districts the way some other counties in Kentucky do.

[hbelkins]

One thing I'd do in Kentucky is merge some smaller counties.

On the federal level, I'd prefer to actually see a more federal system as envisioned by the drafters of the Constitution, with more powers granted to the individual states and fewer powers granted to the federal government.

One of the many things President Trump tried was relocating the Bureau of Land Management to Grand Junction, CO. This sort of makes sense on paper since most of the land BLM manages is in the West, but Grand Junction in particular was a kind of poor choice because there aren't really a whole lot of direct flights from most places to Grand Junction. (Salt Lake, Las Vegas, or Reno probably would have been better choices.)

Unfortunately, the real problem with locating BLM in Colorado was that most of the people who had worked for BLM for years were quite happy living in the capital area and didn't want to lose all their friends, find new schools for their kids, have their spouses find new jobs, etc. by moving to Colorado. So the BLM that arrived in Grand Junction was a shell of the one that was in Washington, as the majority of the Washington employees quit rather than relocate. Being closer didn't really affect the job BLM did, either; apparently a lot of the management that goes on at BLM HQ is the sort you do in the office and doesn't involve actually going to the land being managed, so it didn't make a lot of difference whether that was happening in Colorado or DC.

The Biden administration moved BLM back to Washington DC upon taking office.

So this is what the result of the "All bodies don't have to be in capital" sentiment looks like in real life.

1. Didn't some other federal agency get moved? I'm thinking it was relocated to Kansas City.

2. I guess Baltimore is closer to Annapolis than Grand Junction is to D.C., but a lot of Maryland's agencies are headquartered in Baltimore and not Annapolis.

[oscar]

1. Didn't some other federal agency get moved? I'm thinking it was relocated to Kansas City.

I think two small economics offices within USDA got moved to Kansas City.

Those office moves were probably short-lived, like BLM to Grand Junction. Didn't help that they were late in Trump's only term in office, so they were unlikely to stick through a change in administration. Better to do that kind of thing early rather than late.

[mgk920]

Any city > 100K population is a merged city/county.

Any county < 50K population merges with another county unless it would create a county > 5,000 sq. mi.

County lines must be redrawn to include the entirety of each municipality (New York City excepted).

Townships, in states where they are not organized as municipalities, are eliminated.

Any municipality < 10K that is adjacent to a larger municipality (in the same state) must merge.

All of Washington, DC, outside of an area bounded roughly by 23rd St NW, K St NW/NE, 4th St NE/SE, and the Potomac River, is reverted to the state of Maryland.

I don't support the Washington DC move. But I want to make DC, Montgomery County, Primce George's County, Arlington, Fairfax County and Prince William County an own state.

How would that jive with the 23rd Amendment?

Mike

[US 89]

One of the many things President Trump tried was relocating the Bureau of Land Management to Grand Junction, CO. This sort of makes sense on paper since most of the land BLM manages is in the West, but Grand Junction in particular was a kind of poor choice because there aren't really a whole lot of direct flights from most places to Grand Junction. (Salt Lake, Las Vegas, or Reno probably would have been better choices.)

Unfortunately, the real problem with locating BLM in Colorado was that most of the people who had worked for BLM for years were quite happy living in the capital area and didn't want to lose all their friends, find new schools for their kids, have their spouses find new jobs, etc. by moving to Colorado. So the BLM that arrived in Grand Junction was a shell of the one that was in Washington, as the majority of the Washington employees quit rather than relocate. Being closer didn't really affect the job BLM did, either; apparently a lot of the management that goes on at BLM HQ is the sort you do in the office and doesn't involve actually going to the land being managed, so it didn't make a lot of difference whether that was happening in Colorado or DC.

The Biden administration moved BLM back to Washington DC upon taking office.

So this is what the result of the "All bodies don't have to be in capital" sentiment looks like in real life.

I argue that was maybe part of the point. There is a general feeling in states like Utah and Nevada, where vast tracts of land are owned by the BLM, that land-use decisions are made by out-of-touch bureaucrats in Washington who don't have a good grasp of what things are really like in these areas and in many cases haven't even been out there in person. Plus, these areas are subject to seemingly endless political games, like the ever-changing status of Bears Ears and Grand Staircase monuments or the blocking and re-allowing of oil drilling or wind turbine permits. The government playing those games is the same one Bob the Rancher has to spend time maintaining paperwork and permits with so that his cows can graze on land nobody else is ever going to touch. How much do you think he trusts them?

If the HQ office is in Grand Junction, yeah it's still the Big Baddie Federal Government™, but there's a certain degree of assurance that someone more local or familiar with these areas will be involved in some capacity.

[Scott5114]

Right, I get that was the reasoning, and it makes some degree of sense. But it also led to the problem of having to quickly hire a large number of employees to replace those that chose to leave the agency rather than relocate. It also meant that all of the knowledge that those employees had from years of experience didn't come to Grand Junction as well.

Anyway the point of my post isn't necessarily that having government agencies outside the capital is a bad idea, but rather that it isn't as simple as just saying "All bodies don't have to be in capital" and leaving it at that.

[triplemultiplex]

New England does a good job with this with their town structure. Borders mostly look very clean.

I do wish more of those townships were incorporated. 50,000 people is way to large for mere township.  That should be organized as a city.
Same deal with the larger "Charter Townships" in Michigan.  Some of those should be cities because they are too large.

No thank you. The suburbs being separate from the city is, I believe, the greatest deterrent of criminals committing crimes further out from the city. There's a higher chance they'd actually face real consequences if they tried some of the things they try in the city.

You said the quiet part loud.
The entire reason for suburbs is for frightened white people to try and wall themselves off from the bad parts of living in a metro.  They want all the economic benefit of the city, but none of the social responsibility that comes with crowding hundreds of thousands or millions of humans together in one place.  So they draw an imaginary line through a corn field and declare things like schools, crime, and pollution as "not MY problem!"

My biggest problem is the original proposal was made for blatantly political reasons - wanting deep-blue cities to be blunted by more purple/red voters, even though those people don't actually live there. Why should someone who lives and works in Anoka get a say in Minneapolis city matters? And it's definitely a one-way street - they want Anoka to have say on Minneapolis, but Minneapolis to have no say on Anoka.

But it does work both ways.  The city will absolutely purple-up the dark red suburbs and force them to contribute tax dollars to the school systems and social services for the entire city.  Like in Milwaukee, it would enable an actual unified metropolitan transit authority so one could actually ride the bus to a job in the suburbs beyond Milwaukee County.  But those dark red suburbs don't want that because, well certainly not for overtly racist reasons; no never; not us lily white snowflakes out here in Lake Country...