Traffic signal

[jakeroot]

Some signals in the Portland area do have a bottom head that shows only a FYA, not a solid green arrow. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is a pair of right turn signals on SE Gideon St and SE 12th Ave. I don't know why a green arrow isn't shown, though it might be due to the fact that opposing left turns into the same street may be made on a red arrow. https://goo.gl/maps/9ovehzJXH652

Seattle has several right-facing FYA's that have no protected phase. The point is mostly to give priority to the direction that normally wouldn't have priority, such as here: http://bit.ly/2sSEodG

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Some signals in the Portland area do have a bottom head that shows only a FYA, not a solid green arrow. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is a pair of right turn signals on SE Gideon St and SE 12th Ave. I don't know why a green arrow isn't shown, though it might be due to the fact that opposing left turns into the same street may be made on a red arrow. https://goo.gl/maps/9ovehzJXH652

Seattle has several right-facing FYA's that have no protected phase. The point is mostly to give priority to the direction that normally wouldn't have priority, such as here: http://bit.ly/2sSEodG

That looks more like a NYC style FYA implementation that calls attention to the crosswalk for right turning traffic. The left turning traffic with the green ball on the opposite side still has to yield also.

[jakeroot]

Some signals in the Portland area do have a bottom head that shows only a FYA, not a solid green arrow. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is a pair of right turn signals on SE Gideon St and SE 12th Ave. I don't know why a green arrow isn't shown, though it might be due to the fact that opposing left turns into the same street may be made on a red arrow. https://goo.gl/maps/9ovehzJXH652

Seattle has several right-facing FYA's that have no protected phase. The point is mostly to give priority to the direction that normally wouldn't have priority, such as here: http://bit.ly/2sSEodG

That looks more like a NYC style FYA implementation that calls attention to the crosswalk for right turning traffic. The left turning traffic with the green ball on the opposite side still has to yield also.

True. The old light was a flashing yellow orb. I'm guessing they just don't want to use a green orb to avoid A) traffic assuming straight-ahead was OK, and B) traffic turning right without yielding. In practice, very few cars approach the FYA so my instinct has always been that the double left had priority, but that wouldn't make much sense.

Here's a better example. Another double left. Formerly, both sides had green orbs, but the single-lane approach was changed to right-only and FYA-control, so that the double left could proceed without yielding (which was very awkward, with oncoming traffic having to jog right to avoid a head-on crash). As there is no pedestrian crossing to the right, the FYA must mean "right turn yield to left turn".

[traffic light guy]

Some signals in the Portland area do have a bottom head that shows only a FYA, not a solid green arrow. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is a pair of right turn signals on SE Gideon St and SE 12th Ave. I don't know why a green arrow isn't shown, though it might be due to the fact that opposing left turns into the same street may be made on a red arrow. https://goo.gl/maps/9ovehzJXH652

Seattle has several right-facing FYA's that have no protected phase. The point is mostly to give priority to the direction that normally wouldn't have priority, such as here: http://bit.ly/2sSEodG

That looks more like a NYC style FYA implementation that calls attention to the crosswalk for right turning traffic. The left turning traffic with the green ball on the opposite side still has to yield also.

True. The old light was a flashing yellow orb. I'm guessing they just don't want to use a green orb to avoid A) traffic assuming straight-ahead was OK, and B) traffic turning right without yielding. In practice, very few cars approach the FYA so my instinct has always been that the double left had priority, but that wouldn't make much sense.

Here's a better example. Another double left. Formerly, both sides had green orbs, but the single-lane approach was changed to right-only and FYA-control, so that the double left could proceed without yielding (which was very awkward, with oncoming traffic having to jog right to avoid a head-on crash). As there is no pedestrian crossing to the right, the FYA must mean "right turn yield to left turn".

What's with the akward signal placement on the side street, they just have a small bracket attached to the bottom sections

[jakeroot]

Here's a better example. Another double left. Formerly, both sides had green orbs, but the single-lane approach was changed to right-only and FYA-control, so that the double left could proceed without yielding (which was very awkward, with oncoming traffic having to jog right to avoid a head-on crash). As there is no pedestrian crossing to the right, the FYA must mean "right turn yield to left turn".

What's with the akward signal placement on the side street, they just have a small bracket attached to the bottom sections

It appears to be a signal that was hung upwards! I think it was done to avoid the trolley wire, which probably came after the mast arm.

[jakeroot]

Instead of removing the bi-modal arrow, they could have just swapped the four heads for arrows ... pretty sure this isn't allowed: Kent, WA.

[roadfro]

Instead of removing the bi-modal arrow, they could have just swapped the four heads for arrows ... pretty sure this isn't allowed: Kent, WA.

Could you provide some more explanation on the first part? I'm not following.

But yeah, that signal head at far left should be replaced with an FYA display.

[mrsman]

Slight side-note:  Here's an intriguing 3-head FYA in Los Angeles for both right and left turns.


Streetview

The only one I've seen in person is on westbound US 422 at Locust Street near Myerstown, PA. The other direction has a normal one with a green arrow.

It seems that the signal in LA does not even have protected green.  FYA used to indicate a left turn yield situation, that possibly does not allow left turns at all at the beginning of the cycle.  But given the 2-way traffic, high number of peds, and the bike lanes, this should be a protected only left here.

[jakeroot]

Instead of removing the bi-modal arrow, they could have just swapped the four heads for arrows ... pretty sure this isn't allowed: Kent, WA.

Could you provide some more explanation on the first part? I'm not following.

But yeah, that signal head at far left should be replaced with an FYA display.

Yes, sorry. The original left turn signal was a bi-modal "yield on green". The signal on the left mast originally had a fourth lens for this bi-modal arrow, but it was removed when the FYA was installed. Instead of removing the bi-modal arrow to not confuse anyone over having two different left turn signals, they could have retrofit the four original heads for an all-arrow FYA setup.

Green orbs on the left side of intersections aren't particularly common in Western Washington, so it doesn't surprise me that engineers get a little confused by proper usage (unless they come from CA, as is the case for numerous cities that already use left-side aux signals on the regular, like Auburn or Federal Way).

[jeffandnicole]

Instead of removing the bi-modal arrow, they could have just swapped the four heads for arrows ... pretty sure this isn't allowed: Kent, WA.

In the technical sense, there's nothing wrong with it per se.  But, if you want to reduce confusion, along with having 2 signals for each movement, it should be a FYA.

[paulthemapguy]

Instead of removing the bi-modal arrow, they could have just swapped the four heads for arrows ... pretty sure this isn't allowed: Kent, WA.

The bend to the right is the reason for that signal head on the left.  People probably can't anticipate that mast arm assembly on the right from very far down the road, due to the curve.  That signal head on the left is probably the only thing you can see from 500ft in advance.  Still, a more responsible design would include signal heads for turning and thru traffic at the left side of the intersection, like on a dual mast arm.  I'm pretty sure you're right in that this type of setup isn't allowed.

[Brandon]

Here's a fun one that I remembered while looking for one similar to Jakeroot's Kent, WA example.
North Aurora, IL, IL-56 at IL-25: https://goo.gl/maps/miSUcjYFLm42
Count them, four three-light signals and five PPLT towers (making nine through signals).

[SignBridge]

That configuration in Kent, Wa. is permitted in that there is no rule against it in the Federal Manual. But I agree it's a bad practice. Interestingly, when New York State had their own Manual years ago, they did have a rule prohibiting a green-ball being displayed to the left of a left-turn arrow, which I agreed with. Not sure if that rule exists in the current state supplement, but it does still seem to be the practice in New York.

[jakeroot]

Instead of removing the bi-modal arrow, they could have just swapped the four heads for arrows ... pretty sure this isn't allowed: Kent, WA.

The bend to the right is the reason for that signal head on the left.  People probably can't anticipate that mast arm assembly on the right from very far down the road, due to the curve.  That signal head on the left is probably the only thing you can see from 500ft in advance.  Still, a more responsible design would include signal heads for turning and thru traffic at the left side of the intersection, like on a dual mast arm.  I'm pretty sure you're right in that this type of setup isn't allowed.

I certainly understand the reason for the extra signal on the left. I'm glad it's there. Typically on these approaches, however, the far left signal is an extra flashing yellow arrow, and the extra green orb is on the near-left mast or mast arm. This style.of setup can be seen here (pan up if looking at the ground).

Here's a fun one that I remembered while looking for one similar to Jakeroot's Kent, WA example.
North Aurora, IL, IL-56 at IL-25: https://goo.gl/maps/miSUcjYFLm42
Count them, four three-light signals and five PPLT towers (making nine through signals).

No excuse for missing that light! Credit to whichever IL agency installed that.

That configuration in Kent, Wa. is permitted in that there is no rule against it in the Federal Manual. But I agree it's a bad practice. Interestingly, when New York State had their own Manual years ago, they did have a rule prohibiting a green-ball being displayed to the left of a left-turn arrow, which I agreed with. Not sure if that rule exists in the current state supplement, but it does still seem to be the practice in New York.

I assume there would be an exemption for when the signal on the left was identical to the one on the right? For example, an extra 4-section or 5-section PPLT signal?

[Michael]

While playing GeoGuessr this afternoon, I got a location on Long Island on NY 27A that had a few Caltrans-like signals, which was weird to see in NY.

1 (most Caltrans-like)
2
3

[SignBridge]

In the last few years NYS DOT Region-10 has begun using backplates again after a failed project in the early 1990's. I say "failed" because over the years they almost all broke off and disappeared and the same thing is already happening on their recent installations.

To their credit they have gotten a lot more into using mast arms in a diagonal span, replacing old span-wire installations. Those curved California-like mast-arms have long been used by Nassau County DPW, but are relatively new to NYS DOT.

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

1 (most Caltrans-like)

Is it normal for Region 10 to not install pedheads & APS for all crosswalks at new signals? It seems especially weird to add FYA signals but not bother to add a pedhead for the conflicting crosswalk.

[ErmineNotyours]

Speaking of Kent, there's this intersection.  The supplemental signal left of center isn't controlling the intersection it is placed on.  Traffic from the left has a stop sign.  No, it's giving you a preview of coming attractions for the traffic light around the corner to the right.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

In the last few years NYS DOT Region-10 has begun using backplates again after a failed project in the early 1990's. I say "failed" because over the years they almost all broke off and disappeared and the same thing is already happening on their recent installations.

To their credit they have gotten a lot more into using mast arms in a diagonal span, replacing old span-wire installations. Those curved California-like mast-arms have long been used by Nassau County DPW, but are relatively new to NYS DOT.

Nassau's mast arm installations are orders of magnitude better than NYSDOT's.

Often times the state ones are so sloppy. Heck in example 2 you can see the support brackets sticking up! Same with this one: bent signals and sloppy mounting

2036 New York Ave
https://goo.gl/maps/qbu5tqoEc9Q2

Compared to a new span wire installation

Nesconset Hwy
https://goo.gl/maps/d23QFnhZX122

Or a new Nassau DPW installation

160 Old Country Rd
https://goo.gl/maps/tNkUPdTFMCN2

The state should go back to using spanwire, much cleaner IMO

[Amtrakprod]

Speaking of Kent, there's this intersection.  The supplemental signal left of center isn't controlling the intersection it is placed on.  Traffic from the left has a stop sign.  No, it's giving you a preview of coming attractions for the traffic light around the corner to the right.

They should use this sign: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5518406,-71.4357178,3a,23.1y,280.32h,89.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdusohWJXrbWoXx_tjL86lQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[roadfro]

In the last few years NYS DOT Region-10 has begun using backplates again after a failed project in the early 1990's. I say "failed" because over the years they almost all broke off and disappeared and the same thing is already happening on their recent installations.

To their credit they have gotten a lot more into using mast arms in a diagonal span, replacing old span-wire installations. Those curved California-like mast-arms have long been used by Nassau County DPW, but are relatively new to NYS DOT.

Nassau's mast arm installations are orders of magnitude better than NYSDOT's.

Often times the state ones are so sloppy. Heck in example 2 you can see the support brackets sticking up! Same with this one: bent signals and sloppy mounting

2036 New York Ave
https://goo.gl/maps/qbu5tqoEc9Q2

Compared to a new span wire installation

Nesconset Hwy
https://goo.gl/maps/d23QFnhZX122

Or a new Nassau DPW installation

160 Old Country Rd
https://goo.gl/maps/tNkUPdTFMCN2

The state should go back to using spanwire, much cleaner IMO

I find these mast arm installations interesting. Particularly that the mast arm curves down to the top of the mast, looking like one solid mast and arm combined (even though I'm pretty sure the arm slips on over the top of the mast). Most places I've seen where mast arms are used (Nevada, California, Utah, etc.), the mast arm is a distinctly separate piece bolted on to a connection to the mast.

[Amtrakprod]

Look at this traffic light: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2757676,-122.4652544,3a,75y,353.28h,84.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPLJbbZSG6rU3-rppps2Dkw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[SignBridge]

Re: the NYS DOT, and Nassau County mast-arm installations pictured above, Nassau County has certain advantages. They include fifty years of experience using this style mounting and I believe they build the heads in their own shop using non-standard mounting hardware (threaded pipe and elbow connectors). NYS DOT on the other hand is new to the mast-arm game and uses standard brackets which I agree sometimes look sloppy when mounted on a curved arm. And yes it looks ridiculous when they stick up too high.

However, NYS DOT's jobs lately seem to be better engineered in some cases than Nassau County's. The County sometimes uses an inadequate number of heads, etc. I get the idea they try to get away as cheaply as possible. 

[Michael]

In the last few years NYS DOT Region-10 has begun using backplates again after a failed project in the early 1990's. I say "failed" because over the years they almost all broke off and disappeared and the same thing is already happening on their recent installations.

To their credit they have gotten a lot more into using mast arms in a diagonal span, replacing old span-wire installations. Those curved California-like mast-arms have long been used by Nassau County DPW, but are relatively new to NYS DOT.

Nassau's mast arm installations are orders of magnitude better than NYSDOT's.

Often times the state ones are so sloppy. Heck in example 2 you can see the support brackets sticking up! Same with this one: bent signals and sloppy mounting

2036 New York Ave
https://goo.gl/maps/qbu5tqoEc9Q2

Compared to a new span wire installation

Nesconset Hwy
https://goo.gl/maps/d23QFnhZX122

Or a new Nassau DPW installation

160 Old Country Rd
https://goo.gl/maps/tNkUPdTFMCN2

The state should go back to using spanwire, much cleaner IMO

For as long as I can remember, the intersection of NY 414 and NY 318 had backplates for NY 318 until the signal was replaced.  The new signal has backplates with reflective outlines for all directions.

Around 2013, NYSDOT replaced several signals in Auburn, and many of them have the support brackets sticking up.  Washington St and the Arterial has the worst ones from NYSDOT that I can think of.  Newer NYSDOT installs have gotten better, but there's two new Auburn city installs from last fall that are pretty bad.

As an aside, several span wire installations have been replaced with mast arms, but new span wires are still being installed.  I wonder why they're moving to mast arms.  A couple examples are Seymour St and the Arterial/Grant Ave in Auburn and NY 5 at NY 635.  A couple span wires that have been replaced with new span wires are at US 20/NY 5 and NY 90 and I-81 and Hiawatha Blvd.  My guess is that it's to put up the new overhead street signs on the mast arms.

[ErmineNotyours]

Look at this traffic light: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2757676,-122.4652544,3a,75y,353.28h,84.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPLJbbZSG6rU3-rppps2Dkw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

This installation has two red balls at the top of each light.  That's because of the hill and the train tracks on the approach to the light.  It's 3M directional because you don't want to give a green light to traffic on the other side of the tracks when the crossing arms are down.  And then so the red light can be seen from on the hill and lower down in front of the light, they put on two reds.  They could have just made the red and yellow non-focused.