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Started by Alex, August 18, 2009, 12:34:57 AM

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D-Dey65

Quote from: D-Dey65 on July 05, 2023, 12:51:54 AMDo you people know where else bridges for the Appalachian Trail are needed? The Palisades Interstate Parkway south of the Visitor's Center, Bookstore, and former gas station.

Southbound Lanes:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2838639,-74.0281499,3a,75y,197.9h,90.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCKpLc03Dz8xdv9V8q2Ia8w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Northbound Lanes:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2801954,-74.0296056,3a,37.5y,15.08h,89.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snxRzaKefw2eZjMRmiIPXIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Crossing according to GSV:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2822594,-74.028683,434m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

You can't have hikers trying to dodge speeding cars on the PIP.  I keep thinking of a land bridge or two similar to what you have with the Cross Florida Greenway over I-75 between Marion Oaks and Ocala.
I'm reposting this message to reiterate my call for trail bridges over the Palisades Interstate Parkway. I say one for the southbound lane, one for the northbound lane, and semi-decorative concrete walls along the median with embankments between the two bridges.


D-Dey65

Quote from: roadman65 on July 05, 2023, 02:23:00 AMhttps://goo.gl/maps/TjfZcfoBwz8FFrgS6
The bigger problem is where the NB left merge is from US 6 and  7 Lakes Drive. If one heading North on 7 Lakes wants to continue on 7 Lakes, has to weave across the two lanes of the PIP.

There is not much room between the left merge and the right exit to do it one lane at a time, so it's a drastic crossing to undertake.
This might require a realignment of the northbound lanes of the Palisades Interstate Parkway, a new flyover ramp and the transformation of the current northbound lanes into an off-ramp to eastbound Seven Lakes Drive, but I think it's doable. As long as you do it in a way that doesn't negatively impact Beachy Bottom Creek and its tributaries, you're good to go.

BTW, I wanted to combine this message with the one I posted above, but too many days have passed since I posted the previous message.

vdeane

When doing the new mileage figures for my exit lists, it's fascinating to see how the mileage works.  The posted mile markers seem to have varying degrees of error; I-81 starts accurate, then the mile markers increase faster in northern Broom and Cortland County, only to increase slower in northern Onondaga and Oswego County, and end at approximately the same limit I had before.  NY 17's start fairly close, then lose a mile at the Steuben/Chemung line (I can only assume this is the result of the Corning Bypass), increase back to where they should be around Binghamton and eastern Broome County, increase slightly faster, and then jump by half a mile to a mile at the Sullivan/Orange line.  It's as if Regions 6 and 9 never redid the mile markers when the Corning Bypass opened, but Region 8 did.  Too bad we don't have street view from the 80s to verify.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kernals12

#7253
You probably know of the proposals to build bridges across Long Island Sound, but how about a dam? In 1966, a civil engineer suggested damming off Long Island Sound. His biggest concern was water supplies, he said that the Sound would yield a stream of fresh water able to quench New York City's thirst 12 times over, but he also noted that roads could be built atop the dams. He also said boaters could look forward to the eradication of corrosion and tidal currents. Regardless to say, the idea went nowhere.



The Ghostbuster

I believe there should have been at least one bridge or tunnel constructed (preferably the one connecting Interstate 287 with NY 135), as a way for traffic to bypass New York City. Unfortunately, I doubt there will ever be any constructed. They would be extremely expensive, and the locals would likely go ballistic if any were approved.

kernals12

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 21, 2025, 11:29:31 AMI believe there should have been at least one bridge or tunnel constructed (preferably the one connecting Interstate 287 with NY 135), as a way for traffic to bypass New York City. Unfortunately, I doubt there will ever be any constructed. They would be extremely expensive, and the locals would likely go ballistic if any were approved.

Never say never. Perhaps in the future we'll have machines that use the heat of nuclear fusion to melt rock like a hot knife through butter to build tunnels.

vdeane

Quote from: kernals12 on January 21, 2025, 12:52:31 AMYou probably know of the proposals to build bridges across Long Island Sound, but how about a dam? In 1966, a civil engineer suggested damming off Long Island Sound. His biggest concern was water supplies, he said that the Sound would yield a stream of fresh water able to quench New York City's thirst 12 times over, but he also noted that roads could be built atop the dams. He also said boaters could look forward to the eradication of corrosion and tidal currents. Regardless to say, the idea went nowhere.



That looks like a big dam idea.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kernals12

Quote from: vdeane on January 21, 2025, 12:39:00 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 21, 2025, 12:52:31 AMYou probably know of the proposals to build bridges across Long Island Sound, but how about a dam? In 1966, a civil engineer suggested damming off Long Island Sound. His biggest concern was water supplies, he said that the Sound would yield a stream of fresh water able to quench New York City's thirst 12 times over, but he also noted that roads could be built atop the dams. He also said boaters could look forward to the eradication of corrosion and tidal currents. Regardless to say, the idea went nowhere.



That looks like a big dam idea.


But still not ambitious enough. I'd put the western dam at the entrance to New York Harbor.

dantheman

Quote from: kernals12 on January 21, 2025, 12:54:51 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 21, 2025, 12:39:00 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 21, 2025, 12:52:31 AMYou probably know of the proposals to build bridges across Long Island Sound, but how about a dam? In 1966, a civil engineer suggested damming off Long Island Sound. His biggest concern was water supplies, he said that the Sound would yield a stream of fresh water able to quench New York City's thirst 12 times over, but he also noted that roads could be built atop the dams. He also said boaters could look forward to the eradication of corrosion and tidal currents. Regardless to say, the idea went nowhere.



That looks like a big dam idea.


But still not ambitious enough. I'd put the western dam at the entrance to New York Harbor.

Let's do it Netherlands-style: put the dam just west of the Connecticut River and one on the East River near LaGuardia/Rikers Island, and pump the water level down a few tens of feet. Plenty of new land to drive down NYC housing prices, direct land access between Long Island (Peninsula?) and Connecticut, and Bridgeport never floods in a hurricane again.  :biggrin:

Plutonic Panda

They need a bridge from Long Island to Connecticut and a new interstate with a tunnel under manhattan connecting to the existing tunnels. This should already have been done a long time ago and I believe it'll happen someday.

kernals12

One especially pleasant side effect of removing the tidal effect on the Hudson is that the water would become a lot less murky.

Roadgeek Adam

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 22, 2025, 10:23:12 PMThey need a bridge from Long Island to Connecticut and a new interstate with a tunnel under manhattan connecting to the existing tunnels. This should already have been done a long time ago and I believe it'll happen someday.

It won't. Not as long as wealthy Long Islanders exist. And I support not doing anything. If they want to live on a dead end, then that's their choice. Tired of wasting money on studies and plans that will go nowhere. Move on, let's work on bridges we already have.
Adam Seth Moss / Amanda Sadie Moss
Author, Inkstains and Cracked Bats
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

Rothman

There was an idea for a submarine of sorts to connect Long Island to Connecticut about 15 years ago or so...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

PColumbus73

How would damming the Long Island Sound transform the water from salt to fresh water? If they were able to dam the Sound, there would still need to be locks to maintain access to the ports in Connecticut.

kalvado

Quote from: PColumbus73 on January 23, 2025, 09:58:37 AMHow would damming the Long Island Sound transform the water from salt to fresh water? If they were able to dam the Sound, there would still need to be locks to maintain access to the ports in Connecticut.
general idea must be that rivers flowing into the LI sound - notably Connecticut river - would push out salt water and maintain low salinity, even if there is some mixing at dams. As far as I understand, in a wild state tidal flows deliver enough seawater to keep salinity high. Locks would be bringing some saltwater, but  less than tides do.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 23, 2025, 09:02:53 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 22, 2025, 10:23:12 PMThey need a bridge from Long Island to Connecticut and a new interstate with a tunnel under manhattan connecting to the existing tunnels. This should already have been done a long time ago and I believe it'll happen someday.

It won't. Not as long as wealthy Long Islanders exist. And I support not doing anything. If they want to live on a dead end, then that's their choice. Tired of wasting money on studies and plans that will go nowhere. Move on, let's work on bridges we already have.
Working on what we have would be great if we could build a new bridge.

Rothman

Quote from: kalvado on January 23, 2025, 10:08:15 AM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on January 23, 2025, 09:58:37 AMHow would damming the Long Island Sound transform the water from salt to fresh water? If they were able to dam the Sound, there would still need to be locks to maintain access to the ports in Connecticut.
general idea must be that rivers flowing into the LI sound - notably Connecticut river - would push out salt water and maintain low salinity, even if there is some mixing at dams. As far as I understand, in a wild state tidal flows deliver enough seawater to keep salinity high. Locks would be bringing some saltwater, but  less than tides do.

So...NYC drinks still-brackish water?  Doesn't make sense.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kernals12

#7267
Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2025, 03:04:42 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 23, 2025, 10:08:15 AM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on January 23, 2025, 09:58:37 AMHow would damming the Long Island Sound transform the water from salt to fresh water? If they were able to dam the Sound, there would still need to be locks to maintain access to the ports in Connecticut.
general idea must be that rivers flowing into the LI sound - notably Connecticut river - would push out salt water and maintain low salinity, even if there is some mixing at dams. As far as I understand, in a wild state tidal flows deliver enough seawater to keep salinity high. Locks would be bringing some saltwater, but  less than tides do.

So...NYC drinks still-brackish water?  Doesn't make sense.

Very little seawater would be introduced by the locks.

Edit: Although, now that I think about it, I'd say the constant lock openings needed for ships to get to and from Bayonne would allow in enough seawater to make a dam at the entrance to New York Harbor infeasible.

kernals12

Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 23, 2025, 09:02:53 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 22, 2025, 10:23:12 PMThey need a bridge from Long Island to Connecticut and a new interstate with a tunnel under manhattan connecting to the existing tunnels. This should already have been done a long time ago and I believe it'll happen someday.

It won't. Not as long as wealthy Long Islanders exist. And I support not doing anything. If they want to live on a dead end, then that's their choice. Tired of wasting money on studies and plans that will go nowhere. Move on, let's work on bridges we already have.

(Tongue in Cheek) A bridge from East LI to Rhode Island would make it possible to drive directly from Fire Island to Provincetown. That makes it an issue of social justice for the LGBT community.

Roadgeek Adam

Quote from: kernals12 on January 23, 2025, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 23, 2025, 09:02:53 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 22, 2025, 10:23:12 PMThey need a bridge from Long Island to Connecticut and a new interstate with a tunnel under manhattan connecting to the existing tunnels. This should already have been done a long time ago and I believe it'll happen someday.

It won't. Not as long as wealthy Long Islanders exist. And I support not doing anything. If they want to live on a dead end, then that's their choice. Tired of wasting money on studies and plans that will go nowhere. Move on, let's work on bridges we already have.

(Tongue in Cheek) A bridge from East LI to Rhode Island would make it possible to drive directly from Fire Island to Provincetown. That makes it an issue of social justice for the LGBT community.

Should I insinuate this as an insult against my sexuality?
Adam Seth Moss / Amanda Sadie Moss
Author, Inkstains and Cracked Bats
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

kernals12

Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 23, 2025, 03:36:22 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 23, 2025, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 23, 2025, 09:02:53 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 22, 2025, 10:23:12 PMThey need a bridge from Long Island to Connecticut and a new interstate with a tunnel under manhattan connecting to the existing tunnels. This should already have been done a long time ago and I believe it'll happen someday.

It won't. Not as long as wealthy Long Islanders exist. And I support not doing anything. If they want to live on a dead end, then that's their choice. Tired of wasting money on studies and plans that will go nowhere. Move on, let's work on bridges we already have.

(Tongue in Cheek) A bridge from East LI to Rhode Island would make it possible to drive directly from Fire Island to Provincetown. That makes it an issue of social justice for the LGBT community.

Should I insinuate this as an insult against my sexuality?

I'm gay myself, though I don't see how that could be construed as homophobic

Roadgeek Adam

Because I dont want a new LI Sound bridge and that we should focus on the other bridges already have, but that I might be willing to change that on a bridge to Fire Island, not that they would allow it.
Adam Seth Moss / Amanda Sadie Moss
Author, Inkstains and Cracked Bats
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

The Ghostbuster

Would you settle for an underwater tunnel, assuming one could be constructed? I doubt a bridge across the Long Island Sound would ever be accepted. If, and this is a very remote if, there were any type of crossing constructed, it would have to be a tunnel. It would also depend on where the tunnel would be constructed, and where it would come out. If it has to embark on a route that is too long to be practical, too little traffic would use it, and the great expense to build it would not be worth it.

D-Dey65

Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 23, 2025, 09:02:53 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 22, 2025, 10:23:12 PMThey need a bridge from Long Island to Connecticut and a new interstate with a tunnel under manhattan connecting to the existing tunnels. This should already have been done a long time ago and I believe it'll happen someday.

It won't. Not as long as wealthy Long Islanders exist. And I support not doing anything. If they want to live on a dead end, then that's their choice. Tired of wasting money on studies and plans that will go nowhere. Move on, let's work on bridges we already have.
Screw that! I'd prefer they build the bridges that should've been built decades ago.

And speaking of road projects that should've been built decades ago, I see that somebody posted a Long Island Rail Road bridge in Wikimedia Commons this month, which after some research, I was reminded that it was NY 25 in Laurel. This looks like it was designed for the installation of future separate eastbound lanes. Too bad the low clearance made it less than truck friendly, and necessitated the North Fork extension of the Long Island Expressway, which was also never built.



Roadgeek Adam

#7274
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 23, 2025, 06:01:59 PMWould you settle for an underwater tunnel, assuming one could be constructed? I doubt a bridge across the Long Island Sound would ever be accepted. If, and this is a very remote if, there were any type of crossing constructed, it would have to be a tunnel. It would also depend on where the tunnel would be constructed, and where it would come out. If it has to embark on a route that is too long to be practical, too little traffic would use it, and the great expense to build it would not be worth it.

You've answered your own question. The other problem is there's no active place for said tunnel to come out. NIMBYs would destroy any extension of 135 and NIMBYs would destroy anywhere from Byram to Stonington because it's incredibly wealthy (It's the Gold Coast for a reason.)

The real answer is that any bridge or tunnel east of the Throggs Neck should've been dealt with in late 1940s/early 1950s. When LI became far too developed, it was just gonna ensure that nothing would ever be built. Both shores of the sound are incredibly wealthy, even if not dense.

As for Dan Dey's comment, think about it this way. We can drop millions into more studies and NIMBYs all over the sound can drop millions into lobbying. We have a bridge from New Jersey to New York that's gonna hit its 100th birthday in 2028 and there's still no timeline on when it will be replaced. At some point, the Throggs Neck will probably come due for upgrades and the Bronx-Whitestone will eventually need replacement.

Other bridges in the state of New York are failing. Do we want to waste time on a project with no sensible future or one that will be necessary as bridges we already have age?
Adam Seth Moss / Amanda Sadie Moss
Author, Inkstains and Cracked Bats
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13



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