New Jersey Turnpike

[famartin]

One other thing to consider is that generally, you only see evidence of the suburbs where they were built before or shortly after the Turnpike was. Newer suburbs deliberately are built out of view for the most part,  since most people don't like to live near a superhighway.

[bluecountry]

Between Exit 1 and 2 is very rural. North of there, suburbanization increases steadily, peaking between 3 and 4. It declines north of there, probably minimizing near 6 but only increasing slowly north of there to 8A. After 8A, it increases rapidly.

Why is that, given it is right next to a top 10 city?
I can't imagine NY, DC, or BOS having this much vacant land as there is in Metro Philly between exit 1-2 then north of 4.

By the time you get to 8A it is really Metro Trenton.

Exit 8A isn't anywhere close to the Trenton Metro area.

Land between 1 & 2 is owned by farmers. It's not vacant land.

For a better comparison, look at how Metro Atlanta becomes rural once you get 20 ,- 30 miles away from the city in some areas.

NYC is 3 times larger than Philly and isn't a fair comparison.

Boston...well, look at aerial photos. It starts getting faurly rural just 10 miles to the west.

No Boston really doesn't.
There is a difference between low density rich estates (Boston) vs undeveloped land (South Jersey).

[bluecountry]

Not exactly as big as the aforementioned metros, but Hampton Roads gets quite rural immediately west of "proper"  Suffolk (pretty much west of the bypass, because, technically, city limits spread all the way out to Franklin). Same with even the northern parts of Suffolk west of I-664, though that area has been growing. Chesapeake and Virginia Beach is still largely rural in the southern part of the cities.

Oh please Suffolk, Chesey, and even VA Beach are hardly cities.
The only real cities in Hampton Roads are Norfolk and Hampton.
The rest are really counties that have city government.

VA Beach is really Princess Anne County.

[jeffandnicole]

Between Exit 1 and 2 is very rural. North of there, suburbanization increases steadily, peaking between 3 and 4. It declines north of there, probably minimizing near 6 but only increasing slowly north of there to 8A. After 8A, it increases rapidly.

Why is that, given it is right next to a top 10 city?
I can't imagine NY, DC, or BOS having this much vacant land as there is in Metro Philly between exit 1-2 then north of 4.

By the time you get to 8A it is really Metro Trenton.

Exit 8A isn't anywhere close to the Trenton Metro area.

Land between 1 & 2 is owned by farmers. It's not vacant land.

For a better comparison, look at how Metro Atlanta becomes rural once you get 20 ,- 30 miles away from the city in some areas.

NYC is 3 times larger than Philly and isn't a fair comparison.

Boston...well, look at aerial photos. It starts getting faurly rural just 10 miles to the west.

No Boston really doesn't.
There is a difference between low density rich estates (Boston) vs undeveloped land (South Jersey).

Since you know so much about South Jersey real estate, I'll concede.

[Roadgeekteen]

One other thing to consider is that generally, you only see evidence of the suburbs where they were built before or shortly after the Turnpike was. Newer suburbs deliberately are built out of view for the most part,  since most people don't like to live near a superhighway.

I'd like to live next to a superhighway.

[Ketchup99]

One other thing to consider is that generally, you only see evidence of the suburbs where they were built before or shortly after the Turnpike was. Newer suburbs deliberately are built out of view for the most part,  since most people don't like to live near a superhighway.

I'd like to live next to a superhighway.

My friend, the housing market will be very kind to you.

[Roadgeekteen]

One other thing to consider is that generally, you only see evidence of the suburbs where they were built before or shortly after the Turnpike was. Newer suburbs deliberately are built out of view for the most part,  since most people don't like to live near a superhighway.

I'd like to live next to a superhighway.

My friend, the housing market will be very kind to you.

TBH background noise doesn't really bother me.

[sprjus4]

Oh please Suffolk, Chesey, and even VA Beach are hardly cities.

Virginia Beach is the most populated city in the state of Virginia, and 44th in the nation. 450,000 people.
Chesapeake is right behind at 2nd in the state, and 91st in the nation. 250,000 people.
Suffolk is slightly smaller with only 90,000 people.

But sure, "not cities". Just nearly a million population combined that make up the bulk of the Southside population.

The only real cities in Hampton Roads are Norfolk and Hampton.

Norfolk has a population of around 250,000, slighter smaller than Chesapeake.
Hampton has a population of around 130,000, less than half of Virginia Beach.

But the "only" "real cities"... 

Newport News has a population of nearly 180,000... bigger than the city of Hampton.
Portsmouth nearly 100,000...

But again, "not real cities"...

Either way, whatever you dispute is "real" or "fake" cities... the overall Hampton Roads metropolitan area, including the Peninsula and Southside, has a combined population of over 1.7 million. It's certainly not something small.

[paul02474]

Boston...well, look at aerial photos. It starts getting faurly rural just 10 miles to the west.

No Boston really doesn't.
There is a difference between low density rich estates (Boston) vs undeveloped land (South Jersey).

Correct. Ten miles out you hit strictly zoned towns like Lincoln, where the wealthy get to pretend they live in some semi-rural New England paradise that is conveniently located right off I-95 (aka Route 128). Lincoln also appears to be very rural if you travel along Route 2A, which has been cleared of buildings constructed after 1775 as it is part of the Minute Man National Park.

As a transplanted native New Yorker, who lived in Brooklyn, Queens, and Essex County NJ, I find joy in the fact that I live six miles from downtown Boston (fifteen minute drive with normal traffic) and fifteen minutes from cows. Never mind the cows are on make believe farms of wealthy landowners or are grazing on national parkland; the fact that I can access both environments in a few minutes is a real benefit of living here.

You need to make a significant effort to travel far enough from Boston to find real working farms, without some sort of open space preservation restriction on the deed, where a farmer is using the land for agricultural purposes without significant pressure to sell to a developer.

[jeffandnicole]

Boston...well, look at aerial photos. It starts getting faurly rural just 10 miles to the west.

No Boston really doesn't.
There is a difference between low density rich estates (Boston) vs undeveloped land (South Jersey).

Correct. Ten miles out you hit strictly zoned towns like Lincoln, where the wealthy get to pretend they live in some semi-rural New England paradise that is conveniently located right off I-95 (aka Route 128). Lincoln also appears to be very rural if you travel along Route 2A, which has been cleared of buildings constructed after 1775 as it is part of the Minute Man National Park.

As a transplanted native New Yorker, who lived in Brooklyn, Queens, and Essex County NJ, I find joy in the fact that I live six miles from downtown Boston (fifteen minute drive with normal traffic) and fifteen minutes from cows. Never mind the cows are on make believe farms of wealthy landowners or are grazing on national parkland; the fact that I can access both environments in a few minutes is a real benefit of living here.

You need to make a significant effort to travel far enough from Boston to find real working farms, without some sort of open space preservation restriction on the deed, where a farmer is using the land for agricultural purposes without significant pressure to sell to a developer.

The area you describe is in many ways like NJ near Philly. But, we're talking Burlington County, not Salem County.

[cpzilliacus]

Boston...well, look at aerial photos. It starts getting faurly rural just 10 miles to the west.

No Boston really doesn't.
There is a difference between low density rich estates (Boston) vs undeveloped land (South Jersey).

Correct. Ten miles out you hit strictly zoned towns like Lincoln, where the wealthy get to pretend they live in some semi-rural New England paradise that is conveniently located right off I-95 (aka Route 128). Lincoln also appears to be very rural if you travel along Route 2A, which has been cleared of buildings constructed after 1775 as it is part of the Minute Man National Park.

As a transplanted native New Yorker, who lived in Brooklyn, Queens, and Essex County NJ, I find joy in the fact that I live six miles from downtown Boston (fifteen minute drive with normal traffic) and fifteen minutes from cows. Never mind the cows are on make believe farms of wealthy landowners or are grazing on national parkland; the fact that I can access both environments in a few minutes is a real benefit of living here.

You need to make a significant effort to travel far enough from Boston to find real working farms, without some sort of open space preservation restriction on the deed, where a farmer is using the land for agricultural purposes without significant pressure to sell to a developer.

You are also describing the counties in Maryland that adjoin the District of Columbia.  Montgomery County has the Agricultural Reserve, which takes up about a third of the land area of the county, and Prince George's County has the Rural Tier, which takes up less but is still rather large. Baltimore County (adjoins Baltimore City but the two are not legally connected) has the URDL (urban rural demarcation line).  Subdivisions and water and sewer service are generally not allowed outside of the URDL.  But like the two counties adjoining D.C., Baltimore County can do absolutely nothing to prevent "leapfrog" development, mostly into the townships of York County, Pennsylvania, which has become a de facto suburb of Baltimore.

The farming here is mostly horses and sod, a few vineyards and a few dairy farms - but little farming as can be found in these three Maryland counties when compared to counties a little further out and on the Eastern Shore.

[fmendes]

Thanks vdeane. LOL First time I've ever seen NYSDOT do that with an acceleration lane. Though I have seen them use tapered deceleration lanes in a few places on Long Island which interestingly NJTA does not do.

tapered lanes are tricky where to place because u cant put them lets Say on the BQE because theres just to much congestion and it wont be operationaly sound being that New Yorkers drive like assholes

[bluecountry]

Oh please Suffolk, Chesey, and even VA Beach are hardly cities.

Virginia Beach is the most populated city in the state of Virginia, and 44th in the nation. 450,000 people.
Chesapeake is right behind at 2nd in the state, and 91st in the nation. 250,000 people.
Suffolk is slightly smaller with only 90,000 people.

But sure, "not cities". Just nearly a million population combined that make up the bulk of the Southside population.

The only real cities in Hampton Roads are Norfolk and Hampton.

Norfolk has a population of around 250,000, slighter smaller than Chesapeake.
Hampton has a population of around 130,000, less than half of Virginia Beach.

But the "only" "real cities"... 

Newport News has a population of nearly 180,000... bigger than the city of Hampton.
Portsmouth nearly 100,000...

But again, "not real cities"...

Either way, whatever you dispute is "real" or "fake" cities... the overall Hampton Roads metropolitan area, including the Peninsula and Southside, has a combined population of over 1.7 million. It's certainly not something small.

Are you serious?
Do you not the difference between population vs population density?
SMH.

[famartin]

The image below was taken from the last overpass over I-80 just before the I-95 junction, which is visible. The question: Did the eastbound express lanes get striped by NJTA using GSP standards, or was it striped by NJDOT? The westbound lanes were clearly NJTA, but both directions appear to have been paved recently.  Follow on question: If the eastbound was indeed NJDOT vs the westbound being NJTA, why does the jurisdiction differ in each direction? I'm surprised both don't have a definite change point for both directions.

[Mr. Matté]

Based on NJDOT interchange diagrams and some enlarged views showing the jurisdictional responsibilities, usually the entity who had jurisdiction of the road behind you (assuming you're looking forward) has maintenance of the ramp until the gore point at which point the other entity takes over.

In your example, if you check GSV, the Turnpike lane markings ends right under the bridge where you're standing on the westbound ramp, the eastbound ramp has NJDOT markings until the I-95 NB road comes in.

Similarly, in the case of jughandles and channelized turn lanes, usually the state will maintain the jughandle ramp itself if it comes off the state highway but if the ramp comes off a local road, the local entity may officially maintain the ramp.

[famartin]

Based on NJDOT interchange diagrams and some enlarged views showing the jurisdictional responsibilities, usually the entity who had jurisdiction of the road behind you (assuming you're looking forward) has maintenance of the ramp until the gore point at which point the other entity takes over.

In your example, if you check GSV, the Turnpike lane markings ends right under the bridge where you're standing on the westbound ramp, the eastbound ramp has NJDOT markings until the I-95 NB road comes in.

Not per this (which is taken from the overpass for the I-95 thru lanes, so is viewing towards the merge with I-95, but still before):
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8649874,-74.0107681,3a,75y,100.52h,84.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg4Synn8_T7KbiPkeS0-_cQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The reverse view suggests the change here comes under the overpass, not at the gore point.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8649853,-74.0109953,3a,75y,272.66h,83.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9jfSNHMPh-hFsJqL4W1_mw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Also, on the local lanes east bound, the change happens just after the exit for 95 south.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8643823,-74.0136153,3a,75y,99.33h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEScWrWGG25xKSCyz1JGDvg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[BrianP]

The oddest part is what I had considered the outer roadway on I-95 south of that interchange still has NJDOT striping until you get to the US 46 interchange.  It then changes here: https://goo.gl/maps/iGH881t57PtVHbCJ6

I guess that's still considered as a part of the ramp from I-80 to I-95.

[jeffandnicole]

The image below was taken from the last overpass over I-80 just before the I-95 junction, which is visible. The question: Did the eastbound express lanes get striped by NJTA using GSP standards, or was it striped by NJDOT? The westbound lanes were clearly NJTA, but both directions appear to have been paved recently.  Follow on question: If the eastbound was indeed NJDOT vs the westbound being NJTA, why does the jurisdiction differ in each direction? I'm surprised both don't have a definite change point for both directions.

Another equally unusual setup is at the southern end of the Turnpike and 295. The Turnpike apparently has jurisdiction where 295 comes in on the SB side, and after a recent repaving project, the Turnpike painted Turnpike spec skip lines across the entire roadway. On the Northbound side, 295 in the same vicinity, has NJDOT spec skip lines and is fully under NJDOT jurisdiction.

[famartin]

The image below was taken from the last overpass over I-80 just before the I-95 junction, which is visible. The question: Did the eastbound express lanes get striped by NJTA using GSP standards, or was it striped by NJDOT? The westbound lanes were clearly NJTA, but both directions appear to have been paved recently.  Follow on question: If the eastbound was indeed NJDOT vs the westbound being NJTA, why does the jurisdiction differ in each direction? I'm surprised both don't have a definite change point for both directions.

Another equally unusual setup is at the southern end of the Turnpike and 295. The Turnpike apparently has jurisdiction where 295 comes in on the SB side, and after a recent repaving project, the Turnpike painted Turnpike spec skip lines across the entire roadway. On the Northbound side, 295 in the same vicinity, has NJDOT spec skip lines and is fully under NJDOT jurisdiction.

I actually have a picture of that too, as it happens...

This one is interesting in that there are clear markers for NJTA jurisdiction ending/beginning at the overpass (the mile zero markers are attached to the overpass structure), but their paving project clearly went "just a little farther" to the last exit for 49 here.

[jmacswimmer]

Another equally unusual setup is at the southern end of the Turnpike and 295. The Turnpike apparently has jurisdiction where 295 comes in on the SB side, and after a recent repaving project, the Turnpike painted Turnpike spec skip lines across the entire roadway. On the Northbound side, 295 in the same vicinity, has NJDOT spec skip lines and is fully under NJDOT jurisdiction.

Not only that, but this overhead on the referenced stretch looks like a DRBA install over NJTA pavement (and to complete the trifecta, a NJDOT-spec mile marker for I-295 is here as well)!

As for 295, I presume the difference between directions has to do with the different locations where it merges/separates from the Turnpike.  As famartin noted, Mile 0 of the NJTP is right at the NJ 49/US 130 overpass - 295 NB has just separated to the right at this point, but 295 SB merges in well before this point.  (So my interpretation is that 295 SB technically "overlaps" with the Turnpike SB up to NJ 49/US 130, where the Turnpike officially hits mile 0 & ends.)

This one is interesting in that there are clear markers for NJTA jurisdiction ending/beginning at the overpass (the mile zero markers are attached to the overpass structure), but their paving project clearly went "just a little farther" to the last exit for 49 here.

I recall that the original concrete pavement was still in use beneath the overpass with transition back to asphalt overlay on either side, so it probably made more sense for NJTA to include that short piece with their longer resurfacing project rather than stop right at the overpass and make DRBA do the rest themselves.

[jeffandnicole]

Another equally unusual setup is at the southern end of the Turnpike and 295. The Turnpike apparently has jurisdiction where 295 comes in on the SB side, and after a recent repaving project, the Turnpike painted Turnpike spec skip lines across the entire roadway. On the Northbound side, 295 in the same vicinity, has NJDOT spec skip lines and is fully under NJDOT jurisdiction.

Not only that, but this overhead on the referenced stretch looks like a DRBA install over NJTA pavement (and to complete the trifecta, a NJDOT-spec mile marker for I-295 is here as well)!

As for 295, I presume the difference between directions has to do with the different locations where it merges/separates from the Turnpike.  As famartin noted, Mile 0 of the NJTP is right at the NJ 49/US 130 overpass - 295 NB has just separated to the right at this point, but 295 SB merges in well before this point.  (So my interpretation is that 295 SB technically "overlaps" with the Turnpike SB up to NJ 49/US 130, where the Turnpike officially hits mile 0 & ends.)

Yep.  NJDOT will assist with snowplowing down to to that Exit 1 (Rt. 49) off ramp, but I think the rest of the roadwork in that area is the NJTA's responsibility.

US 40 also overlaps with the NJ Turnpike for about a while as well, but at the gore points it becomes NJDOT's responsibility.

This one is interesting in that there are clear markers for NJTA jurisdiction ending/beginning at the overpass (the mile zero markers are attached to the overpass structure), but their paving project clearly went "just a little farther" to the last exit for 49 here.

I recall that the original concrete pavement was still in use beneath the overpass with transition back to asphalt overlay on either side, so it probably made more sense for NJTA to include that short piece with their longer resurfacing project rather than stop right at the overpass and make DRBA do the rest themselves.

I'm sure there's some resolution somewhere that the DRBA gave the NJTA the authority to pave that short stretch!

[RobbieL2415]

Another equally unusual setup is at the southern end of the Turnpike and 295. The Turnpike apparently has jurisdiction where 295 comes in on the SB side, and after a recent repaving project, the Turnpike painted Turnpike spec skip lines across the entire roadway. On the Northbound side, 295 in the same vicinity, has NJDOT spec skip lines and is fully under NJDOT jurisdiction.

Not only that, but this overhead on the referenced stretch looks like a DRBA install over NJTA pavement (and to complete the trifecta, a NJDOT-spec mile marker for I-295 is here as well)!

As for 295, I presume the difference between directions has to do with the different locations where it merges/separates from the Turnpike.  As famartin noted, Mile 0 of the NJTP is right at the NJ 49/US 130 overpass - 295 NB has just separated to the right at this point, but 295 SB merges in well before this point.  (So my interpretation is that 295 SB technically "overlaps" with the Turnpike SB up to NJ 49/US 130, where the Turnpike officially hits mile 0 & ends.)

This one is interesting in that there are clear markers for NJTA jurisdiction ending/beginning at the overpass (the mile zero markers are attached to the overpass structure), but their paving project clearly went "just a little farther" to the last exit for 49 here.

I recall that the original concrete pavement was still in use beneath the overpass with transition back to asphalt overlay on either side, so it probably made more sense for NJTA to include that short piece with their longer resurfacing project rather than stop right at the overpass and make DRBA do the rest themselves.

Kinda like this assembly in Greenwich, CT, except it's a NYSTA truss holding up a ConnDOT sign.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.999494,-73.6542841,3a,75y,228.58h,89.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssTuD7cElRXYhkJr21O8Ygw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en

[shadyjay]

Kinda like this assembly in Greenwich, CT, except it's a NYSTA truss holding up a ConnDOT sign.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.999494,-73.6542841,3a,75y,228.58h,89.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssTuD7cElRXYhkJr21O8Ygw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en

That one I can see, seeing the gantry previously held signs that were clearly NY-designed.  But swing around to Exit 2 itself, and there's another NY style gantry:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9999141,-73.6533924,3a,75y,63.8h,84.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6DK4Q7WINUdsIkZLzhcCsQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en

There also is, a few miles south of the I-287 interchange, a ConnDOT cruciform holding up a ConnDOT VMS. 

[civilmaher]

Another equally unusual setup is at the southern end of the Turnpike and 295. The Turnpike apparently has jurisdiction where 295 comes in on the SB side, and after a recent repaving project, the Turnpike painted Turnpike spec skip lines across the entire roadway. On the Northbound side, 295 in the same vicinity, has NJDOT spec skip lines and is fully under NJDOT jurisdiction.

Not only that, but this overhead on the referenced stretch looks like a DRBA install over NJTA pavement (and to complete the trifecta, a NJDOT-spec mile marker for I-295 is here as well)!

As for 295, I presume the difference between directions has to do with the different locations where it merges/separates from the Turnpike.  As famartin noted, Mile 0 of the NJTP is right at the NJ 49/US 130 overpass - 295 NB has just separated to the right at this point, but 295 SB merges in well before this point.  (So my interpretation is that 295 SB technically "overlaps" with the Turnpike SB up to NJ 49/US 130, where the Turnpike officially hits mile 0 & ends.)

This one is interesting in that there are clear markers for NJTA jurisdiction ending/beginning at the overpass (the mile zero markers are attached to the overpass structure), but their paving project clearly went "just a little farther" to the last exit for 49 here.

I recall that the original concrete pavement was still in use beneath the overpass with transition back to asphalt overlay on either side, so it probably made more sense for NJTA to include that short piece with their longer resurfacing project rather than stop right at the overpass and make DRBA do the rest themselves.

Kinda like this assembly in Greenwich, CT, except it's a NYSTA truss holding up a ConnDOT sign.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.999494,-73.6542841,3a,75y,228.58h,89.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssTuD7cElRXYhkJr21O8Ygw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en

Yeah, jurisdictional responsibilities get intertwined here, maintenance, ownership, and otherwise. Below is attempt to clarify by NJDOT, but probably not as official as the signed/sealed jurisdictional mapping that NJTA has on file.

Straight Line Diagram

[famartin]

Another equally unusual setup is at the southern end of the Turnpike and 295. The Turnpike apparently has jurisdiction where 295 comes in on the SB side, and after a recent repaving project, the Turnpike painted Turnpike spec skip lines across the entire roadway. On the Northbound side, 295 in the same vicinity, has NJDOT spec skip lines and is fully under NJDOT jurisdiction.

Not only that, but this overhead on the referenced stretch looks like a DRBA install over NJTA pavement (and to complete the trifecta, a NJDOT-spec mile marker for I-295 is here as well)!

As for 295, I presume the difference between directions has to do with the different locations where it merges/separates from the Turnpike.  As famartin noted, Mile 0 of the NJTP is right at the NJ 49/US 130 overpass - 295 NB has just separated to the right at this point, but 295 SB merges in well before this point.  (So my interpretation is that 295 SB technically "overlaps" with the Turnpike SB up to NJ 49/US 130, where the Turnpike officially hits mile 0 & ends.)

This one is interesting in that there are clear markers for NJTA jurisdiction ending/beginning at the overpass (the mile zero markers are attached to the overpass structure), but their paving project clearly went "just a little farther" to the last exit for 49 here.

I recall that the original concrete pavement was still in use beneath the overpass with transition back to asphalt overlay on either side, so it probably made more sense for NJTA to include that short piece with their longer resurfacing project rather than stop right at the overpass and make DRBA do the rest themselves.

Kinda like this assembly in Greenwich, CT, except it's a NYSTA truss holding up a ConnDOT sign.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.999494,-73.6542841,3a,75y,228.58h,89.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssTuD7cElRXYhkJr21O8Ygw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en

Yeah, jurisdictional responsibilities get intertwined here, maintenance, ownership, and otherwise. Below is attempt to clarify by NJDOT, but probably not as official as the signed/sealed jurisdictional mapping that NJTA has on file.

Straight Line Diagram

What's interesting is that the line striping suggests that DRBA grabbed a bit of NJTA space west of the 130/49 overpass, since the east/northbound lanes are DRBA striping up to the overpass even though that diagram lists it as NJTA jurisdiction.