New Jersey Turnpike

[lstone19]

The Turnpike really blew it with the Sports Complex number. Historically, from before the US46 to I-80 section was built, US46 was Exit 18 (as well as the end of the road). As with many other toll roads, toll plaza numbers took the number of the first exit you could exit after the plaza so the corresponding toll plaza was also, 18, later 18E with 18W on the western route. But they seem to have forgotten that US46 was 18 when they gave the 19W number to the Sports Complex exit.

You are not considering that the 18W plaza is still south of 19W, so in that regard, 19W is correct. That said, it probably should be 17W, with 17 becoming 17E.

Remember, historical precedent/momentum are strong with the NJTA. Getting them to change anything is remarkable (which is why their new signage style is such a shock)

Having the order of things on the western route be Exit 16W, Plaza 18W, Exit 17W (one-sided) would be consistent with the eastern route where it was the combined Exit 16 (later 16E) / Plaza 18 (later 18E) in the double-wide plaza followed by Exit 17 (one-sided). And years earlier, the joint 16/18 plaza didn't exist with 16 and 17 being somewhat normal exits (although I believe one of them was one-sided) and then a plaza 18 just south of the end of road at US46. So I agree 19W should be 17W.

[02 Park Ave]

When AET finally comes to New Jersey I hope that it is done correctly so as to fix the tolling inconsistencies on the GSP and ACE and tolling inaccuracies on the Turnpike.

Would you clarify what you mean by "tolling inaccuracies on the Turnpike?"

Here is an example of what I mean as a tolling inaccuracy on the Turnpike:

The difference in the toll one would pay at Exit 11 compared to the toll one would pay exiting at Exit 10 varies depending upon where one entered the Turnpike.  The toll one would pay exiting at Exit 10 would obviously reflect the distance traveled from one's entry point to Exit 10.  You would think that the toll at Exit 11 would be a fixed amount more for having traveled 2.5 miles beyond Exit 10.  But it isn't a fixed amount.  The difference in the toll varies from 10¢ to 90¢ for traveling the same distance!

Here is a table listing the difference in the toll charged, based upon Peak Rates for autos, at Exit 11 compared to that charged at Exit 10 depending on entrance point:

Exit  Difference
1        +0.80
2        +0.90
3        +0.20
4        +0.45
5        +0.80
6        +0.35
7        +0.60
7A      +0.45
8        +0.30
8A      +0.10

How was the toll schedule for the Turnpike calculated?  You would assume on a per mile basis but obviously it wasn't.

So when they go to AET I would hope that they put a gantry between each exit and charge all vehicles traveling through that section a per mile fee.  That would correct the inaccuracies in tolling that now exist.

[akotchi]

The I-80 exit is numbered 69 southbound, but unnumbered northbound.  Since there is a large distance between the SB and NB accesses, would the northbound exit get a different number, like 67?

Also, for some reason, the U.S. 46 exit is also unnumbered northbound -- Exit 68 is only for Challenger Road -- but numbered as 68 southbound.  It is also unnumbered from the I-80 EB ramps (which become the SB outer roadway).

If continuing from Turnpike exit numbering. the numbering would have to start from 20, since 19W was added to the Sports Complex/American Dream ramp on the Western Spur.

Most if not all the oddities you mention are matters of historical precedent and momentum. 80 exits off the original turnpike NB, but the NJDOT-built Bergen-Passaic Expressway SB (actually it's 95 that exits the BPE, which continues as 80). So, southbound, NJDOT gave it the number 69, but NB, it was always NJTA, and since it's beyond their original ticket system, it was unnumbered. Same reason 46 has no number NB... NJTA is responsible and it's beyond their ticket system, so no number. SB, it was near the very end of the connector from the BPE and the turnpike, so NJDOT gave it the number 68.

Fair points all.  Thanks for the history lesson -- I knew some of it, but not the timing of the moving parts.

I recommended 19W be numbered as such based on task order work I did for NJTA -- once the Sports Complex ramp transitioned to full-time use with American Dream, it made sense.  The number was specifically due to its location north of 18W toll plaza.  Pleased to see it posted as such in the field.

The Eastern Spur numbering is a byproduct of moving the barrier plaza from U.S. 46 to I/NJ-495 long ago.

Of note as well is that NJDOT used to number the I-95 interchange on I-80 EB as Exits 68A-B based on I-80 mileage, with (I-95) Exit 70 following shortly after in the local lanes.  Presumably to avoid confusion with I-95 SB Exit 68 (U.S. 46), the terminal exit numbers were removed.  I want to say this was 20 years or so ago.

[storm2k]

The I-80 exit is numbered 69 southbound, but unnumbered northbound.  Since there is a large distance between the SB and NB accesses, would the northbound exit get a different number, like 67?

Also, for some reason, the U.S. 46 exit is also unnumbered northbound -- Exit 68 is only for Challenger Road -- but numbered as 68 southbound.  It is also unnumbered from the I-80 EB ramps (which become the SB outer roadway).

If continuing from Turnpike exit numbering. the numbering would have to start from 20, since 19W was added to the Sports Complex/American Dream ramp on the Western Spur.

Most if not all the oddities you mention are matters of historical precedent and momentum. 80 exits off the original turnpike NB, but the NJDOT-built Bergen-Passaic Expressway SB (actually it's 95 that exits the BPE, which continues as 80). So, southbound, NJDOT gave it the number 69, but NB, it was always NJTA, and since it's beyond their original ticket system, it was unnumbered. Same reason 46 has no number NB... NJTA is responsible and it's beyond their ticket system, so no number. SB, it was near the very end of the connector from the BPE and the turnpike, so NJDOT gave it the number 68.

Fair points all.  Thanks for the history lesson -- I knew some of it, but not the timing of the moving parts.

I recommended 19W be numbered as such based on task order work I did for NJTA -- once the Sports Complex ramp transitioned to full-time use with American Dream, it made sense.  The number was specifically due to its location north of 18W toll plaza.  Pleased to see it posted as such in the field.

The Eastern Spur numbering is a byproduct of moving the barrier plaza from U.S. 46 to I/NJ-495 long ago.

Of note as well is that NJDOT used to number the I-95 interchange on I-80 EB as Exits 68A-B based on I-80 mileage, with (I-95) Exit 70 following shortly after in the local lanes.  Presumably to avoid confusion with I-95 SB Exit 68 (U.S. 46), the terminal exit numbers were removed.  I want to say this was 20 years or so ago.

Yes, I believe that was in 2000 or so when the last of the legacy NJDOT non-reflectorized button copy was removed north of the northern mixing bowl and the Lombardi Service Area and replaced with then current NJTA style signage. Some of that signage lasted long past when NJTA took over jurisdiction of the 95 stretch to the GWB, which I believe was in 1992.

Also, it should be noted that the milemarkers along that stretch continue the Turnpike's mainline mileage. The last one is like 121 or 122, even though they left the original NJDOT exit numbers (which were based on the original 95 mileage following its original planned route over Scudders Falls then up the Somerset Freeway) which just happened to dovetail nicely with 80's exit numbers.

[jeffandnicole]

When AET finally comes to New Jersey I hope that it is done correctly so as to fix the tolling inconsistencies on the GSP and ACE and tolling inaccuracies on the Turnpike.

Would you clarify what you mean by "tolling inaccuracies on the Turnpike?"

Here is an example of what I mean as a tolling inaccuracy on the Turnpike:

The difference in the toll one would pay at Exit 11 compared to the toll one would pay exiting at Exit 10 varies depending upon where one entered the Turnpike.  The toll one would pay exiting at Exit 10 would obviously reflect the distance traveled from one's entry point to Exit 10.  You would think that the toll at Exit 11 would be a fixed amount more for having traveled 2.5 miles beyond Exit 10.  But it isn't a fixed amount.  The difference in the toll varies from 10¢ to 90¢ for traveling the same distance!

Here is a table listing the difference in the toll charged, based upon Peak Rates for autos, at Exit 11 compared to that charged at Exit 10 depending on entrance point:

Exit  Difference
1        +0.80
2        +0.90
3        +0.20
4        +0.45
5        +0.80
6        +0.35
7        +0.60
7A      +0.45
8        +0.30
8A      +0.10

How was the toll schedule for the Turnpike calculated?  You would assume on a per mile basis but obviously it wasn't.

So when they go to AET I would hope that they put a gantry between each exit and charge all vehicles traveling through that section a per mile fee.  That would correct the inaccuracies in tolling that now exist.

The pricing does tend to be a bit inconsistent.  Here's the entire toll schedule in PDF form: https://www.njta.com/media/5550/njta_tpk_c1sched-2020.pdf .  You'll notice there's no change in toll, in most cases, regardless if you're exiting at 13 or 13A, which are 1 mile apart.

Some of the inconsistencies arrive from when the Turnpike was a baby, and rates were low.  If I recall (and feel free to correct me here), tolls were based on a fare of 1 cent for every mile South of Exit 9, and 3 cents for every mile north of Exit 9, and tolls had to be rounded to the nearest 5 cents.  A little extra was added on for short distance travels (such as going from Exit 3 to Exit 4).   As tolls increased, usually as a percentage of the previous rates, the rounding effect exaggerated some of the toll rate differences.  The Turnpike never went back to fix some of these rounding errors. 

Using the Exit 13/13A example above, back when Exit 13A opened, the difference was so small it probably rounded out to the same amount.  Today, it would be around a 30 cent difference if they redid the calculation.

Will the Turnpike fix this when they go ETC?  If other agencies are used as an example, probably not. 

If someone wants to provide the Turnpike with a full schedule of fares for every class of vehicle during the next public comment period when they propose raising tolls again, maybe you'll grab their eyes and ears enough to have them take a second look. And then they'll ignore it anyway.

[famartin]

So I've noticed that between about Exit 12 and Exit 14, the speed limit signs haven't worked for at least a year. Is there something preventing their repair?

[plain]

So I've noticed that between about Exit 12 and Exit 14, the speed limit signs haven't worked for at least a year. Is there something preventing their repair?

When they are working, they still aren't working hardly anyone goes under 70 there.

[famartin]

So I've noticed that between about Exit 12 and Exit 14, the speed limit signs haven't worked for at least a year. Is there something preventing their repair?

When they are working, they still aren't working hardly anyone goes under 70 there.

Fair point 😂

[bluecountry]

It really makes no sense how the NJTP only uses the 'Philadelphia' as a direction for the exit 6 sign.
Even after the SB NJTP passes Trenton, they use 'Camden' and not 'Philadelphia' it makes no sense.

[Alps]

It really makes no sense how the NJTP only uses the 'Philadelphia' as a direction for the exit 6 sign.
Even after the SB NJTP passes Trenton, they use 'Camden' and not 'Philadelphia' it makes no sense.

NJTP doesn't go to Pennsylvania, so Philly is an exit from it.

[jeffandnicole]

So I've noticed that between about Exit 12 and Exit 14, the speed limit signs haven't worked for at least a year. Is there something preventing their repair?

When they are working, they still aren't working hardly anyone goes under 70 there.

Fair point 😂

Did they still have the temporary electronic speed limit signs in use; the type normally used in construction zones?

[famartin]

So I've noticed that between about Exit 12 and Exit 14, the speed limit signs haven't worked for at least a year. Is there something preventing their repair?

When they are working, they still aren't working hardly anyone goes under 70 there.

Fair point 😂

Did they still have the temporary electronic speed limit signs in use; the type normally used in construction zones?

Yes, but theyve been there at least a year now.

[famartin]

It really makes no sense how the NJTP only uses the 'Philadelphia' as a direction for the exit 6 sign.
Even after the SB NJTP passes Trenton, they use 'Camden' and not 'Philadelphia' it makes no sense.

NJTP doesn't go to Pennsylvania, so Philly is an exit from it.

Actually it does, ending at the state line on the connector bridge. In contrast, it never gets closer than, say, a mile from the NY state line 

I'm being a smart ass. I know what you really mean, but let's face it: the turnpike is the main connector between two of the biggest cities in the country... yet somehow pretends one of them hardly exists.

[Alps]

It really makes no sense how the NJTP only uses the 'Philadelphia' as a direction for the exit 6 sign.
Even after the SB NJTP passes Trenton, they use 'Camden' and not 'Philadelphia' it makes no sense.

NJTP doesn't go to Pennsylvania, so Philly is an exit from it.

Actually it does, ending at the state line on the connector bridge. In contrast, it never gets closer than, say, a mile from the NY state line 

I'm being a smart ass. I know what you really mean, but let's face it: the turnpike is the main connector between two of the biggest cities in the country... yet somehow pretends one of them hardly exists.

Look at the control cities PA uses and you'll understand my lack of sympathy.

[bzakharin]

Look at the control cities PA uses and you'll understand my lack of sympathy.

I assume you're implying that PA signs I-95 North for New York and not some place in NJ, but the NJ Turnpike itself does the same thing Northbound, so it makes sense.

[Alps]

Look at the control cities PA uses and you'll understand my lack of sympathy.

I assume you're implying that PA signs I-95 North for New York and not some place in NJ, but the NJ Turnpike itself does the same thing Northbound, so it makes sense.

No, I'm implying PA always signs PA destinations even when they're East Stroudsburg.

[famartin]

Look at the control cities PA uses and you'll understand my lack of sympathy.

I assume you're implying that PA signs I-95 North for New York and not some place in NJ, but the NJ Turnpike itself does the same thing Northbound, so it makes sense.

No, I'm implying PA always signs PA destinations even when they're East Stroudsburg.

And NJ doesn't do likewise in many cases? (Mahwah is definitely the worst offender here)

[SignBridge]

Look at the control cities PA uses and you'll understand my lack of sympathy.

I assume you're implying that PA signs I-95 North for New York and not some place in NJ, but the NJ Turnpike itself does the same thing Northbound, so it makes sense.

No, I'm implying PA always signs PA destinations even when they're East Stroudsburg.

And NJ doesn't do likewise in many cases? (Mahwah is definitely the worst offender here)

Both states may do this shortsighted practice but it's dumb. I never understood Pennsylvania signing US 1 North in the Langhorne area for Morrisville instead of Trenton in some places.

[jeffandnicole]

Look at the control cities PA uses and you'll understand my lack of sympathy.

I assume you're implying that PA signs I-95 North for New York and not some place in NJ, but the NJ Turnpike itself does the same thing Northbound, so it makes sense.

No, I'm implying PA always signs PA destinations even when they're East Stroudsburg.

And NJ doesn't do likewise in many cases? (Mahwah is definitely the worst offender here)

Being how many people complain about the control cities being bridges leading out of the state, or Wilmington on the NJ Turnpike, not a close comparison.

Hell, there's enough people on here that want NJ to sign control cities that practically change every exit or two!

[Alps]

Look at the control cities PA uses and you'll understand my lack of sympathy.

I assume you're implying that PA signs I-95 North for New York and not some place in NJ, but the NJ Turnpike itself does the same thing Northbound, so it makes sense.

No, I'm implying PA always signs PA destinations even when they're East Stroudsburg.

And NJ doesn't do likewise in many cases? (Mahwah is definitely the worst offender here)

I-287 does not go to Albany.

[roadman65]

Look at the control cities PA uses and you'll understand my lack of sympathy.

I assume you're implying that PA signs I-95 North for New York and not some place in NJ, but the NJ Turnpike itself does the same thing Northbound, so it makes sense.

No, I'm implying PA always signs PA destinations even when they're East Stroudsburg.

And NJ doesn't do likewise in many cases? (Mahwah is definitely the worst offender here)

Don't forget about Easton now on I-78.  Only in a couple of places do you see Phillipsburg on signs.  Then New York City now replaced Newark in some places on I-78 east.

[famartin]

Look at the control cities PA uses and you'll understand my lack of sympathy.

I assume you're implying that PA signs I-95 North for New York and not some place in NJ, but the NJ Turnpike itself does the same thing Northbound, so it makes sense.

No, I'm implying PA always signs PA destinations even when they're East Stroudsburg.

And NJ doesn't do likewise in many cases? (Mahwah is definitely the worst offender here)

I-287 does not go to Albany.

White Plains would be most appropriate, I think.

[cpzilliacus]

The I-80 exit is numbered 69 southbound, but unnumbered northbound.  Since there is a large distance between the SB and NB accesses, would the northbound exit get a different number, like 67?

Also, for some reason, the U.S. 46 exit is also unnumbered northbound -- Exit 68 is only for Challenger Road -- but numbered as 68 southbound.  It is also unnumbered from the I-80 EB ramps (which become the SB outer roadway).

If continuing from Turnpike exit numbering. the numbering would have to start from 20, since 19W was added to the Sports Complex/American Dream ramp on the Western Spur.

Most if not all the oddities you mention are matters of historical precedent and momentum. 80 exits off the original turnpike NB, but the NJDOT-built Bergen-Passaic Expressway SB (actually it's 95 that exits the BPE, which continues as 80). So, southbound, NJDOT gave it the number 69, but NB, it was always NJTA, and since it's beyond their original ticket system, it was unnumbered. Same reason 46 has no number NB... NJTA is responsible and it's beyond their ticket system, so no number. SB, it was near the very end of the connector from the BPE and the turnpike, so NJDOT gave it the number 68.

Fair points all.  Thanks for the history lesson -- I knew some of it, but not the timing of the moving parts.

I recommended 19W be numbered as such based on task order work I did for NJTA -- once the Sports Complex ramp transitioned to full-time use with American Dream, it made sense.  The number was specifically due to its location north of 18W toll plaza.  Pleased to see it posted as such in the field.

The Eastern Spur numbering is a byproduct of moving the barrier plaza from U.S. 46 to I/NJ-495 long ago.

Of note as well is that NJDOT used to number the I-95 interchange on I-80 EB as Exits 68A-B based on I-80 mileage, with (I-95) Exit 70 following shortly after in the local lanes.  Presumably to avoid confusion with I-95 SB Exit 68 (U.S. 46), the terminal exit numbers were removed.  I want to say this was 20 years or so ago.

Yes, I believe that was in 2000 or so when the last of the legacy NJDOT non-reflectorized button copy was removed north of the northern mixing bowl and the Lombardi Service Area and replaced with then current NJTA style signage. Some of that signage lasted long past when NJTA took over jurisdiction of the 95 stretch to the GWB, which I believe was in 1992.

Also, it should be noted that the milemarkers along that stretch continue the Turnpike's mainline mileage. The last one is like 121 or 122, even though they left the original NJDOT exit numbers (which were based on the original 95 mileage following its original planned route over Scudders Falls then up the Somerset Freeway) which just happened to dovetail nicely with 80's exit numbers.

It's I-95 and not I-80, and in a perfect world, the New Jersey Turnpike exit numbering would continue all the way to the New Jersey landing of the GWB (from memory, I think that would result in new numbers (or maybe Exit 18A for Challenger Road); then Exit 19 for I-80, Exit 20 for Leonia and Teaneck; Exit 20A for Englewood; Exit 21A for NJ-67; Exit 21B for the Pallisades Interstate Parkway and U.S. 9W (this is northbound, might be and probably is different for southbound).

[storm2k]

The I-80 exit is numbered 69 southbound, but unnumbered northbound.  Since there is a large distance between the SB and NB accesses, would the northbound exit get a different number, like 67?

Also, for some reason, the U.S. 46 exit is also unnumbered northbound -- Exit 68 is only for Challenger Road -- but numbered as 68 southbound.  It is also unnumbered from the I-80 EB ramps (which become the SB outer roadway).

If continuing from Turnpike exit numbering. the numbering would have to start from 20, since 19W was added to the Sports Complex/American Dream ramp on the Western Spur.

Most if not all the oddities you mention are matters of historical precedent and momentum. 80 exits off the original turnpike NB, but the NJDOT-built Bergen-Passaic Expressway SB (actually it's 95 that exits the BPE, which continues as 80). So, southbound, NJDOT gave it the number 69, but NB, it was always NJTA, and since it's beyond their original ticket system, it was unnumbered. Same reason 46 has no number NB... NJTA is responsible and it's beyond their ticket system, so no number. SB, it was near the very end of the connector from the BPE and the turnpike, so NJDOT gave it the number 68.

Fair points all.  Thanks for the history lesson -- I knew some of it, but not the timing of the moving parts.

I recommended 19W be numbered as such based on task order work I did for NJTA -- once the Sports Complex ramp transitioned to full-time use with American Dream, it made sense.  The number was specifically due to its location north of 18W toll plaza.  Pleased to see it posted as such in the field.

The Eastern Spur numbering is a byproduct of moving the barrier plaza from U.S. 46 to I/NJ-495 long ago.

Of note as well is that NJDOT used to number the I-95 interchange on I-80 EB as Exits 68A-B based on I-80 mileage, with (I-95) Exit 70 following shortly after in the local lanes.  Presumably to avoid confusion with I-95 SB Exit 68 (U.S. 46), the terminal exit numbers were removed.  I want to say this was 20 years or so ago.

Yes, I believe that was in 2000 or so when the last of the legacy NJDOT non-reflectorized button copy was removed north of the northern mixing bowl and the Lombardi Service Area and replaced with then current NJTA style signage. Some of that signage lasted long past when NJTA took over jurisdiction of the 95 stretch to the GWB, which I believe was in 1992.

Also, it should be noted that the milemarkers along that stretch continue the Turnpike's mainline mileage. The last one is like 121 or 122, even though they left the original NJDOT exit numbers (which were based on the original 95 mileage following its original planned route over Scudders Falls then up the Somerset Freeway) which just happened to dovetail nicely with 80's exit numbers.

It's I-95 and not I-80, and in a perfect world, the New Jersey Turnpike exit numbering would continue all the way to the New Jersey landing of the GWB (from memory, I think that would result in new numbers (or maybe Exit 18A for Challenger Road); then Exit 19 for I-80, Exit 20 for Leonia and Teaneck; Exit 20A for Englewood; Exit 21A for NJ-67; Exit 21B for the Pallisades Interstate Parkway and U.S. 9W (this is northbound, might be and probably is different for southbound).

I stated very clearly that it's 95 there. The numbers just happen to line up with 80's exit numbering as well. Also, there's never been a solid reason to change the numbering. It's north of the ticket system and toll free (as this was a condition of the NJTA taking the roadway over from NJDOT) and those numbers are pretty ingrained in people's minds. It's not signed as part of the Turnpike either there, just as 95. So there's no reason whatsoever to change what already works.

[roadman65]

I see that the Indiana Toll Road copies the NJ Turnpike in regards to lane stripping.