AASHTO Committee on Route Numbering (Nov. 2012) Actions

[Kacie Jane]

As much as I hate it, I think vtk hit the nail on the head here.

Which is precisely why numbers should not be written into law.

[agentsteel53]

the 69/94 situation in MI

what is this situation?

[kkt]

I like the idea of long rural 3dIs instead of short rural 2dIs (suffixed or not).  In my mind, this is what numbers of the form I-1xx should be reserved for.  But doesn't federal law specify the number 69 for all three branches?  I think AASHTO is trying to break the law as little as possible without literally calling all three branches I-69.  And unlike the 69/94 situation in MI, they can't just ignore this problem without non-roadgeeks noticing something's wrong.

Maybe this is the problem.  Legislators should not specify route numbers.  Maybe this is one case in which AASHTO should fudge on the law and claim numbering the branches as 3di off 69 counts as numbering them 69.  I would think they would count as much as numbering them I-69C or whatever.  If Texas thinks I-69, I-169, I-369 is not good enough, they could also name the roads.  And see if anyone really cares enough to sue.

[Scott5114]

the 69/94 situation in MI

what is this situation?

The I-69 law designates a portion of I-94 between if I remember correctly Chicago and current I-69 as being part of I-69.

[agentsteel53]

The I-69 law designates a portion of I-94 between if I remember correctly Chicago and current I-69 as being part of I-69.

the Hell?  that's not even contiguous with the signed I-69.  is it intended to remain unsigned I-69W or what have you?

[Scott5114]

The I-69 law designates a portion of I-94 between if I remember correctly Chicago and current I-69 as being part of I-69.

the Hell?  that's not even contiguous with the signed I-69.  is it intended to remain unsigned I-69W or what have you?

Who the hell knows? Congress emanated it.

[vdeane]

Maybe it's supposed to make a U-turn in Sarina and absorb all of I-94 until Chicago.  Thus, I-69 has a wrong-way multiplex with itself!

If I were TXDOT, I would have picked a branch, said "this will be I-69" and left the rest as US/state highways if they were even improved at all.  My guess is that, rather than having a branching route, Congress couldn't make up their mind and expected the DOTs to pick for them, rather than build everything.

[NE2]

Congress designated I-94 east of Chicago as part of the I-69 corridor for funding purposes. But they also passed a law saying that any segment of Corridors 18 and 20 that is built to Interstate standards and connects to another Interstate *must* be signed as I-69. Whoops.

[mukade]

Imagine if the ridiculous happened and I-69 replaced I-94 in Michigan and Indiana. Both states could have exit numbers going the wrong way. Of course, Indiana would just add 400 to existing exit numbers instead.

[PurdueBill]

Imagine if the ridiculous happened and I-69 replaced I-94 in Michigan and Indiana. Both states could have exit numbers going the wrong way. Of course, Indiana would just add 400 to existing exit numbers instead.

To be fair, though, the adding 200 thing is not incompetence--it's practicality on two counts (1. ease of conversion, and 2. the final routing from Bloomington to 465 isn't precisely known and renumbering now and again when it's finally done, if it ever does get done, is simply a waste).  Renumbering an entirely built highway with known distances is another beast entirely.

[mukade]

To be fair, though, the adding 200 thing is not incompetence--it's practicality on two counts (1. ease of conversion, and 2. the final routing from Bloomington to 465 isn't precisely known and renumbering now and again when it's finally done, if it ever does get done, is simply a waste). 

I agree. The comment was only made in jest.

[vdeane]

Congress designated I-94 east of Chicago as part of the I-69 corridor for funding purposes. But they also passed a law saying that any segment of Corridors 18 and 20 that is built to Interstate standards and connects to another Interstate *must* be signed as I-69. Whoops.

There's a simple solution: don't build the other segments to interstate standards and leave them as US routes.  I think that's what Congress intended.  Leave it to TX to screw that up.

[Rover_0]

You know what? I'll be that guy--I actually don't mind the idea of suffixed routes. As long as they're not going in a completely different direction (Idaho's I-15W) and serving equally important areas, they're OK (I-35W/I-35E).

However:

(A) The portion of I-69 going to Laredo should be a 3di, with the US-281 and US-77 corridors becoming I-69W and I-69E, respectively (an I-69C shouldn't be part of anything), or

(B) The US-59 corridor becomes I-69 with US-77 and US-281 becoming one form of I-x69 or another (or even 2dis, like I-41 and I-47, ala I-19).

Of course, if I'm not mistaken, the new I-69C designation has only been tenuously approved by AASHTO-it hasn't yet gotten through to the FHWA yet.

Another interesting thing to see is if TxDOT pursues an Interstate designation for US-83--what number would that become? I'm feeling an I-x69 right now, but is there a chance that it turns out to be something like I-2 or I-6 and eventually goes up to I-69 (whatever branch) at Laredo? Is there a chance that TX-44 becomes an Interstate, as well (looking at this map)?

EDIT: Realized the out-of-placedness of I-31 and I-33. Might have to make a southern I-41 (provided that that's the number US-41 in Wisconsin gets) and I-47.

[InterstateNG]

(looking at this map)?

I didn't know US-5 was in Louisiana now.

[Scott5114]

The most sensible way of handling the I-69 conundrum, in my opinion, would be:

• Assign I-69 to the branch ending in Laredo.
• Extend I-37 along US 77 south of Corpus Christi.
• Old I-37 becomes I-137.
• US 77 north of I-37 becomes I-237.
• TX 44 becomes I-269.
• Leave US 281 as is.

[CanesFan27]

The most sensible way of handling the I-69 conundrum, in my opinion, would be:

• Assign I-69 to the branch ending in Laredo.
• Extend I-37 along US 77 south of Corpus Christi.
• Old I-37 becomes I-137.
• US 77 north of I-37 becomes I-237.
• TX 44 becomes I-269.
• Leave US 281 as is.

Well what fun would that be.

[agentsteel53]

The most sensible way of handling the I-69 conundrum, in my opinion, would be:

• Assign I-69 to the branch ending in Laredo.
• Extend US-77 along US 77 south of Corpus Christi.
• Old I-37 remains I-37.
• US 77 north of I-37 remains US 77.
• TX 44 remains TX 44.
• Leave US 281 as is.

fixed that for ya.

[Grzrd]

US 83 action in south Texas disapproved because no number requested

I want I-287 to be renumbered I-0, just so I live next to the coolest Interstate ever.

(above quote from I-69 in TX thread)

The most sensible way of handling the I-69 conundrum, in my opinion

Well what fun would that be.

I'm still mourning AASHTO's killing of TxDOT's brilliant stroke of having an interstate with no number.  Much as the Beatles' White Album merely had "The BEATLES" in small text on a plain white background, US 83 could have simply been "INTERSTATE", and be commonly referred to as "the Interstate".  Now, THAT would have been both cool and fun.

Maybe AASHTO shot it down for political reasons, since it is on the path of the proposed Immigration Freedomway ... 

[Roadsguy]

an interstate with no number

What?

[Big John]

an interstate with no number

What?

Like in Madison, WI?

[DaBigE]

an interstate with no number

What?

Like in Madison, WI?

That's just because the City of Madison was too lazy to sign I-39-90-94. There are others like that around the East Towne area, as well as various signs for the beltline that are empty US shields.

[kkt]

an interstate with no number

What?

Like in Madison, WI?

That's just because the City of Madison was too lazy to sign I-39-90-94. There are others like that around the East Towne area, as well as various signs for the beltline that are empty US shields.

That's real?  I figured it must have been photoshopped, because no real city would be so lazy...

[NE2]

So have the actual documents been posted anywhere?

[DaBigE]

an interstate with no number

What?

Like in Madison, WI?
[Image removed to save space]

That's just because the City of Madison was too lazy to sign I-39-90-94. There are others like that around the East Towne area, as well as various signs for the beltline that are empty US shields.

That's real?  I figured it must have been photoshopped, because no real city would be so lazy...

Yep, totally real. No photoshopping. Creating signs like this is nothing new for Madison.
StreetView of above photo
StreetView of one further down the street
StreetView of blank US shield for Madison beltline
StreetView of another blank US shield

Part of the Madison beltline is multiplexed as US 12, 14, 18, & 151, not to mention, also leading to the Interstate, so I can't blame them for "abbreviating".

[PurdueBill]

Madison is being SOOOOO lazy.     If Indy can do it with two numbers (with directional letters added, even) and St. Louis can do it with three and even FOUR....