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Started by mgk920, September 12, 2012, 02:19:57 PM

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vdeane

Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 26, 2024, 09:27:02 PM
Or...and hear me out here...perhaps do some research before you drive around Chicago and on its tollways if you are unfamiliar with the area and how the ISTHA works.

The idea that simply saying "pay online here" isn't good enough, but that you should specifically say that you shouldn't expect a bill via mail, is pretty ridiculous.
Doesn't sound so ridiculous to me, considering that before the recent posts in this thread, I have never even heard of a toll road that allowed non-transponder users where cash or bill by mail wasn't an option (and I live near the part of the country where it feels like you can't even sneeze without finding a toll facility run by a different authority).  It's so far beyond the norm as to be incomprehensible (I'd go so far as to say that federal law should be amended to make it illegal).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.


ilpt4u

#2576
If one really wants to pay by cash, he/she can stop at ISTHA HQ in Downers Grove/SE corner of the 355/88/US 34 interchange and pay in person

As I mentioned earlier I have never tried this, but I am pretty sure a motorist can call ISTHA's Cx Service 800# 800.UC.I.PASS, give the CSR your entry/exit points, and the rep will give you the toll charge to mail in, or take a credit card # over the phone

With near ubiquitous cell phone coverage, most that are internet-capable, I have a hard time having a problem with how ISTHA does their tolling, and without going too political, Congress has better things to do than banning how motorist-chosen Toll Roads collect payment - no one forces* anyone onto an ISTHA roadway (*there have been instances where another IDOT interstate has closed and all traffic forced onto an ISTHA Tollway - I-80 WB had a full closure between I-355 and US 30 a few years back and all traffic was forced onto 355 NB, but that is the exception, not the rule)

A part of me considers the idea of having 1 or 2 automated payment machines in the old cash lanes that take cash and/or credit cards - especially at "final" toll plazas of a route. Can even have it be user-selected touch screen for entry point to compute the appropriate toll. But these can cause other issues, requiring stopped traffic at the now nonstop toll plaza lanes. Is it worth it? I don't have the answer

Putting automated payment machines in the Oases I think would be a good step, but other than the Lincoln, no other Oasis is really at an "end point." That and the Oases are beginning to disappear regardless

mgk920

A decade or so ago I caught a glimpse of a letter with a familiar return address logo that was sticking out of a neighbor's mailbox.  Upon closer examination it was "Illinois Tollway".  And yes, I have had correspondence with them over the years regarding various highway planning issues, so it was a familiar to me logo.  Since I knew of no other roadgeeks who were (or are) neighbors, my only thought then was that 'OOoooohhh, I'll bet that someone missed a toll!'.

:-P

Mike

SEWIGuy

Quote from: vdeane on February 26, 2024, 09:52:15 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 26, 2024, 09:27:02 PM
Or...and hear me out here...perhaps do some research before you drive around Chicago and on its tollways if you are unfamiliar with the area and how the ISTHA works.

The idea that simply saying "pay online here" isn't good enough, but that you should specifically say that you shouldn't expect a bill via mail, is pretty ridiculous.
Doesn't sound so ridiculous to me, considering that before the recent posts in this thread, I have never even heard of a toll road that allowed non-transponder users where cash or bill by mail wasn't an option (and I live near the part of the country where it feels like you can't even sneeze without finding a toll facility run by a different authority).  It's so far beyond the norm as to be incomprehensible (I'd go so far as to say that federal law should be amended to make it illegal).

lol. "Since I've never heard of it, it's obviously a problem. We need a law!"

Typical New Yorker way of thinking. It works just fine the way it is. The driver needs to be responsible.

SEWIGuy

By the way, the Illinois Tollway will send you an invoice if you don't pay your tolls online within 30 days. You will be assessed a $3.00 per toll fee however.

KelleyCook

Quote from: vdeane on February 26, 2024, 09:52:15 PM
Doesn't sound so ridiculous to me, considering that before the recent posts in this thread, I have never even heard of a toll road that allowed non-transponder users where cash or bill by mail wasn't an option (and I live near the part of the country where it feels like you can't even sneeze without finding a toll facility run by a different authority).  It's so far beyond the norm as to be incomprehensible (I'd go so far as to say that federal law should be amended to make it illegal).

Worse his flippant read-the-rules-ahead-of-time was making an completely wrong assumption that their Pay Online system is actually useable.

While driving through a few years agao, I went online and registered and then it proceeded to tell me that it currently has no record of me, so come back later.  Fine I thought its a batch system.  Coming back a few weeks later still no dice. Turns out you need to go online fairly regularly until some person in the back office figures out your out-of-state license plate has a 0 instead of an O six months later and of course they had thrown on a late fee.  It of course uncaring Illinois government so I didn't bother arguing about that extra $5 for a $1.80 toll as that wasn't worth my time.  That car is now registered in their system along with a debit card, they have charged for when I went through in July, but still haven't charged me for when I drove through over Thanksgiving.

SEWIGuy

Your personal anecdotes aside, their online system is completely useable. Have done so repeatedly with no issues whatsoever.

hobsini2

Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 26, 2024, 09:27:02 PM
Or...and hear me out here...perhaps do some research before you drive around Chicago and on its tollways if you are unfamiliar with the area and how the ISTHA works.

The idea that simply saying "pay online here" isn't good enough, but that you should specifically say that you shouldn't expect a bill via mail, is pretty ridiculous.
Exactly. If you see it say Toll, it should not shock anyone who uses the tollway and then get a bill if it is not paid online. EVERY plaza on the Illinois Tollway system says you have 14 days to pay online.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0711229,-88.309067,3a,23.1y,306.27h,85.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJjFKS1uznZOqpcAxooE_5A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

hobsini2

Quote from: ilpt4u on February 26, 2024, 10:03:22 PM
If one really wants to pay by cash, he/she can stop at ISTHA HQ in Downers Grove/SE corner of the 355/88/US 34 interchange and pay in person

As I mentioned earlier I have never tried this, but I am pretty sure a motorist can call ISTHA's Cx Service 800# 800.UC.I.PASS, give the CSR your entry/exit points, and the rep will give you the toll charge to mail in, or take a credit card # over the phone

With near ubiquitous cell phone coverage, most that are internet-capable, I have a hard time having a problem with how ISTHA does their tolling, and without going too political, Congress has better things to do than banning how motorist-chosen Toll Roads collect payment - no one forces* anyone onto an ISTHA roadway (*there have been instances where another IDOT interstate has closed and all traffic forced onto an ISTHA Tollway - I-80 WB had a full closure between I-355 and US 30 a few years back and all traffic was forced onto 355 NB, but that is the exception, not the rule)

A part of me considers the idea of having 1 or 2 automated payment machines in the old cash lanes that take cash and/or credit cards - especially at "final" toll plazas of a route. Can even have it be user-selected touch screen for entry point to compute the appropriate toll. But these can cause other issues, requiring stopped traffic at the now nonstop toll plaza lanes. Is it worth it? I don't have the answer

Putting automated payment machines in the Oases I think would be a good step, but other than the Lincoln, no other Oasis is really at an "end point." That and the Oases are beginning to disappear regardless
I don't know if Kansas and Oklahoma still have the automated credit card machines at the plazas but I thought it was a great idea. There certainly is room to convert the cash lanes at mainline plazas to this type. The ramp plazas would be a bit more tricky especially the older ones that are single lane.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

vdeane

Quote from: hobsini2 on February 27, 2024, 12:16:16 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 26, 2024, 09:27:02 PM
Or...and hear me out here...perhaps do some research before you drive around Chicago and on its tollways if you are unfamiliar with the area and how the ISTHA works.

The idea that simply saying "pay online here" isn't good enough, but that you should specifically say that you shouldn't expect a bill via mail, is pretty ridiculous.
Exactly. If you see it say Toll, it should not shock anyone who uses the tollway and then get a bill if it is not paid online. EVERY plaza on the Illinois Tollway system says you have 14 days to pay online.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0711229,-88.309067,3a,23.1y,306.27h,85.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJjFKS1uznZOqpcAxooE_5A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Well, the complaint that sparked the whole thing was that they didn't get a bill and it ended up going to collections.  Now, if Illinois actually does do bill by mail, this is a different matter - but everyone was talking as if they don't.  Unfortunately, bill by mail systems are known to be unreliable, which is why I don't use them myself.  And given KelleyCook's report, it seems like online payment in lieu of bill by mail is something to be avoided as well... I do feel very passionately about avoiding fees like that, after all.

As for any (seemingly erroneous given later discussion) reports that bill by mail isn't allowed and it's online or the highway, I would view that as akin to Illinois having drivers drive on the left or signing everything in metric (including speed limits) without telling anyone and with no indication of what was done until you get pulled over for violating the rules, although the analogy does fall apart because those two things are harder to hide (100 mph isn't a very common speed limit after all, and it's fairly noticeable if everyone suddenly shifts to the other side of the road).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

hobsini2

Quote from: vdeane on February 27, 2024, 12:54:24 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 27, 2024, 12:16:16 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 26, 2024, 09:27:02 PM
Or...and hear me out here...perhaps do some research before you drive around Chicago and on its tollways if you are unfamiliar with the area and how the ISTHA works.

The idea that simply saying "pay online here" isn't good enough, but that you should specifically say that you shouldn't expect a bill via mail, is pretty ridiculous.
Exactly. If you see it say Toll, it should not shock anyone who uses the tollway and then get a bill if it is not paid online. EVERY plaza on the Illinois Tollway system says you have 14 days to pay online.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0711229,-88.309067,3a,23.1y,306.27h,85.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJjFKS1uznZOqpcAxooE_5A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Well, the complaint that sparked the whole thing was that they didn't get a bill and it ended up going to collections.  Now, if Illinois actually does do bill by mail, this is a different matter - but everyone was talking as if they don't.  Unfortunately, bill by mail systems are known to be unreliable, which is why I don't use them myself.  And given KelleyCook's report, it seems like online payment in lieu of bill by mail is something to be avoided as well... I do feel very passionately about avoiding fees like that, after all.

As for any (seemingly erroneous given later discussion) reports that bill by mail isn't allowed and it's online or the highway, I would view that as akin to Illinois having drivers drive on the left or signing everything in metric (including speed limits) without telling anyone and with no indication of what was done until you get pulled over for violating the rules, although the analogy does fall apart because those two things are harder to hide (100 mph isn't a very common speed limit after all, and it's fairly noticeable if everyone suddenly shifts to the other side of the road).
I can tell you from experience that if you do not pay online within the 14 days, you do get an invoice bill from them along with the additional fees per toll. I had to pay $72.75 recently because apparently my transponder was not being read correctly. I have since resolved that issue from December.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

SEWIGuy

You don't get a bill by mail. You get an overdue invoice by mail.

edwaleni

Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 27, 2024, 11:34:53 AM
Your personal anecdotes aside, their online system is completely useable. Have done so repeatedly with no issues whatsoever.

No issues with ISTHA online payment system.

sprjus4

#2588
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 27, 2024, 01:56:29 PM
You don't get a bill by mail. You get an overdue invoice by mail.
So, they do send mail! Why not send the bill by mail to begin with? Make the whole process simpler...

Cost them too much? Charge higher pay by mail tolls. Like virtually every other toll agency in the country does. Illinois (or "ISTHA") is the backwards one here.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: sprjus4 on February 28, 2024, 03:19:49 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 27, 2024, 01:56:29 PM
You don't get a bill by mail. You get an overdue invoice by mail.
So, they do send mail! Why not send the bill by mail to begin with? Make the whole process simpler...

Cost them too much? Charge higher pay by mail tolls. Like virtually every other toll agency in the country does. Illinois (or "ISTHA") is the backwards one here.

So you're saying that a system where tolls are primarily paid online is more "backwards" than a bill-by-mail system? That's really an odd take. I haven't gotten any sort of regular bill via mail in years and pay almost everything online.

Furthermore, if the current system is working for them, why should they change it?

JREwing78

Quote from: sprjus4 on February 28, 2024, 03:19:49 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 27, 2024, 01:56:29 PM
You don't get a bill by mail. You get an overdue invoice by mail.
So, they do send mail! Why not send the bill by mail to begin with? Make the whole process simpler...

Cost them too much? Charge higher pay by mail tolls. Like virtually every other toll agency in the country does. Illinois (or "ISTHA") is the backwards one here.

Ahem... ISTHA *does* charge higher tolls for pay by mail.

They give you a considerable discount for you following directions and going online to pay the bill proactively.

They give you an even bigger discount for being truly proactive and purchasing the correct transponder.

Want to stick your head in the sand and pretend tolls aren't a thing after driving on a tollway? No discounts for stupid.

vdeane

Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 28, 2024, 04:41:57 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 28, 2024, 03:19:49 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 27, 2024, 01:56:29 PM
You don't get a bill by mail. You get an overdue invoice by mail.
So, they do send mail! Why not send the bill by mail to begin with? Make the whole process simpler...

Cost them too much? Charge higher pay by mail tolls. Like virtually every other toll agency in the country does. Illinois (or "ISTHA") is the backwards one here.

So you're saying that a system where tolls are primarily paid online is more "backwards" than a bill-by-mail system? That's really an odd take. I haven't gotten any sort of regular bill via mail in years and pay almost everything online.

Furthermore, if the current system is working for them, why should they change it?
Why should it matter how well it works for ISHTA?  What should matter is how it works for drivers.  I am not advocating for getting rid of the ability to pay online.  In fact, I would encourage more agencies to allow it as an option.  What I'm against is making it a requirement.  Drivers shouldn't be considered delinquent and sent to collections just for not being proactive and looking things up online before even getting anything in the mail - especially given that home internet is still somehow not universal.  Maybe then things like the horror stories in this thread would have been prevented (then again, maybe not; as we've seen across the country, paying tolls by any means other than cash or transponder is a janky process prone to errors, to the point where bills have come up in the NY legislature for a "tollpayers bill of rights" several times since the Thruway began the AET rollout).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SEWIGuy

#2592
Quote from: vdeane on February 28, 2024, 09:38:27 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 28, 2024, 04:41:57 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 28, 2024, 03:19:49 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 27, 2024, 01:56:29 PM
You don't get a bill by mail. You get an overdue invoice by mail.
So, they do send mail! Why not send the bill by mail to begin with? Make the whole process simpler...

Cost them too much? Charge higher pay by mail tolls. Like virtually every other toll agency in the country does. Illinois (or "ISTHA") is the backwards one here.

So you're saying that a system where tolls are primarily paid online is more "backwards" than a bill-by-mail system? That's really an odd take. I haven't gotten any sort of regular bill via mail in years and pay almost everything online.

Furthermore, if the current system is working for them, why should they change it?
Why should it matter how well it works for ISHTA?  What should matter is how it works for drivers.  I am not advocating for getting rid of the ability to pay online.  In fact, I would encourage more agencies to allow it as an option.  What I'm against is making it a requirement.  Drivers shouldn't be considered delinquent and sent to collections just for not being proactive and looking things up online before even getting anything in the mail - especially given that home internet is still somehow not universal.  Maybe then things like the horror stories in this thread would have been prevented (then again, maybe not; as we've seen across the country, paying tolls by any means other than cash or transponder is a janky process prone to errors, to the point where bills have come up in the NY legislature for a "tollpayers bill of rights" several times since the Thruway began the AET rollout).


The current system works just fine for drivers.  And a couple of anecdotes....sorry "horror stories"...  :wow: :wow: don't prove otherwise.

There are signs all over the place telling drivers how to pay. If they don't have home internet, go to the library. None of this is hard. And again, NO ONE IS SENT TO COLLECTIONS for merely NOT paying online. People get an invoice if they are two weeks late with a fee. It is not considered an offense until they are 90 days late - by that time they would have received THREE notices by mail

Seriously, your posts on this are getting more and more absurd. Stop absolving drivers for not having the ability to realize their surroundings AND NOT READING THE SIGNS!!!  It's not a secret when someone is going through a toll.

vdeane

Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 29, 2024, 11:53:54 AM
Quote from: vdeane on February 28, 2024, 09:38:27 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 28, 2024, 04:41:57 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 28, 2024, 03:19:49 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 27, 2024, 01:56:29 PM
You don't get a bill by mail. You get an overdue invoice by mail.
So, they do send mail! Why not send the bill by mail to begin with? Make the whole process simpler...

Cost them too much? Charge higher pay by mail tolls. Like virtually every other toll agency in the country does. Illinois (or "ISTHA") is the backwards one here.

So you're saying that a system where tolls are primarily paid online is more "backwards" than a bill-by-mail system? That's really an odd take. I haven't gotten any sort of regular bill via mail in years and pay almost everything online.

Furthermore, if the current system is working for them, why should they change it?
Why should it matter how well it works for ISHTA?  What should matter is how it works for drivers.  I am not advocating for getting rid of the ability to pay online.  In fact, I would encourage more agencies to allow it as an option.  What I'm against is making it a requirement.  Drivers shouldn't be considered delinquent and sent to collections just for not being proactive and looking things up online before even getting anything in the mail - especially given that home internet is still somehow not universal.  Maybe then things like the horror stories in this thread would have been prevented (then again, maybe not; as we've seen across the country, paying tolls by any means other than cash or transponder is a janky process prone to errors, to the point where bills have come up in the NY legislature for a "tollpayers bill of rights" several times since the Thruway began the AET rollout).


The current system works just fine for drivers.  And a couple of anecdotes....sorry "horror stories"...  :wow: :wow: don't prove otherwise.

There are signs all over the place telling drivers how to pay. If they don't have home internet, go to the library. None of this is hard. And again, NO ONE IS SENT TO COLLECTIONS for merely NOT paying online. People get an invoice if they are two weeks late with a fee. It is not considered an offense until they are 90 days late - by that time they would have received THREE notices by mail

Seriously, your posts on this are getting more and more absurd. Stop absolving drivers for not having the ability to realize their surroundings AND NOT READING THE SIGNS!!!  It's not a secret when someone is going through a toll.
I believe I already clarified that the initial posts I made were based on what people were saying before it was clarified that normally a bill was sent in the mail?  Personally, I'm not a fan of technological change causes regressions, but as I've now said a couple times before, that was mostly based on the story where nothing went through the mail.  At this point, I'm just going to assume that you're attacking me just to attack me, as people on this board seem to be wont to do.  Whatever.  At least I don't have to worry about this since I have E-ZPass, but you're attempts to downplay the fact that both the online system and bill by mail aren't foolproof won't have me using any AET toll facilities that aren't interoperable any time soon.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SEWIGuy

So even though your initial assumptions were false, you're still sticking with your narrative?  I'm not attacking you. I'm saying that your posts on the matter lack logic.

kphoger

Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 29, 2024, 01:51:14 PM
I'm not attacking you. I'm saying that your posts on the matter lack logic.

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edwaleni

Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 29, 2024, 01:51:14 PM
So even though your initial assumptions were false, you're still sticking with your narrative?  I'm not attacking you. I'm saying that your posts on the matter lack logic.


paulthemapguy

Valerie works for the government. She knows the astronomical extent to which agencies have to try and make things as foolproof as possible for users.  There are still a lot of computer-illiterate beings afoot...

Furthermore, most people aren't as focused on the intricacies of roadway travel as we are.
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hobsini2

Quote from: kphoger on February 29, 2024, 02:40:40 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 29, 2024, 01:51:14 PM
I'm not attacking you. I'm saying that your posts on the matter lack logic.

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I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

Revive 755

Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 29, 2024, 11:53:54 AM
The current system works just fine for drivers.

If even people with I-Pass's are getting fined when their transponder stops working I have to wonder how well that system is working. And given how uncooperative the Tollway's website can be some days for checking balances . . .




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