Enhanced Mile Markers

[ran4sh]

You also use standard mile markers to do the same thing, despite those being green

[SkyPesos]

You also use standard mile markers to do the same thing, despite those being green

I think the report also preferred blue as a reason to differentiate them from standard mile markers. Not that it's the best idea out there, as there's so much inconsistency over which color to use for enhanced mile markers on the new I-69 Martinsville segment in Indiana currently, with examples of both green and blue EMM over a short distance.

[SkyPesos]

Found out that IL also uses blue mile markers on a section of I-57 driving down it last week:

[SkyPesos]

Thought of two questions with enhanced mile markers.

- What is the longest interstate that uses an enhanced mile marker in every state it goes through (MM doesn't have to be continuous all the way)?

- What is the longest interstate that doesn't use any enhanced mile markers (or in other words, doesn't have a mile marker with its route shield on it) at all?

For the first, I know I-75 uses enhanced mile markers in every state it passes through. Not sure about the interstates longer than I-75 in some states they pass through.

I imagine the answer for the second one would be an x5 out west, but I'm not sure exactly which one, or if there are lone enhanced mile markers that I'm not aware of.

[ran4sh]

Thought of two questions with enhanced mile markers.

...

- What is the longest interstate that doesn't use any enhanced mile markers (or in other words, doesn't have a mile marker with its route shield on it) at all?

...

I imagine the answer for the second one would be an x5 out west, but I'm not sure exactly which one, or if there are lone enhanced mile markers that I'm not aware of.

All of the western x5 go through urban areas that are large enough to use enhanced MM, so I don't think it would be any of them. Unless, for some reason, CO or WA etc choose not to use enhanced MM at all

[ethanhopkin14]

Thought of two questions with enhanced mile markers.

...

- What is the longest interstate that doesn't use any enhanced mile markers (or in other words, doesn't have a mile marker with its route shield on it) at all?

...

I imagine the answer for the second one would be an x5 out west, but I'm not sure exactly which one, or if there are lone enhanced mile markers that I'm not aware of.

All of the western x5 go through urban areas that are large enough to use enhanced MM, so I don't think it would be any of them. Unless, for some reason, CO or WA etc choose not to use enhanced MM at all

I am going to guess I-25. 

[Scott5114]

All of the western x5 go through urban areas that are large enough to use enhanced MM, so I don't think it would be any of them. Unless, for some reason, CO or WA etc choose not to use enhanced MM at all

Enhanced milemarkers in metro areas is not a given. Oklahoma didn't have them until a few years ago (and that's part of a statewide enhanced MM plan, not urban specifically, and as such they are placed only at ½-mile increments, not ⅕).

[US 89]

All of the western x5 go through urban areas that are large enough to use enhanced MM, so I don't think it would be any of them. Unless, for some reason, CO or WA etc choose not to use enhanced MM at all

Enhanced milemarkers in metro areas is not a given. Oklahoma didn't have them until a few years ago (and that's part of a statewide enhanced MM plan, not urban specifically, and as such they are placed only at ½-mile increments, not ⅕).

Yep. I-15 has none in Utah, nor do 70/84/215. 80 only has a few within the interchanges where it enters and exits the I-15 mainline.

[SkyPesos]

All of the western x5 go through urban areas that are large enough to use enhanced MM, so I don't think it would be any of them. Unless, for some reason, CO or WA etc choose not to use enhanced MM at all

From what I got out of this thread, a lot of western states don't use them at all for some reason. CA only have them on CA 17, and I don't remember seeing them on I-5 in Seattle. Haven't been to Oregon yet, but I only see them on OR 217 from a GSV search of the Portland area, so it's possible I-5 doesn't have any enhanced mile markers at all despite all the major cities it goes through.

[kirbykart]

IDOT just doesn't seem to find them important. Even in rural areas of the state, they're spotty.

A lot of states seem to skimp on it in rural areas. Like Ohio is pretty good with enhanced markers in large urban areas, but only use the standard green full mile markers in rural areas. Same with Kentucky and Indiana, except Indiana use 0.5 mile (standard) markers in rural areas, which is a bit better.

With the rural areas question, I think Wisconsin have my preferred setup of the enhanced mile markers. Pretty much like what Ohio does (yes, I prefer blue over green, and median over right side) in addition to them existing in intervals of 0.2 in rural stretches of freeways.

Then there's Pennsylvania on the other end of the spectrum, with 0.1 mile markers on the turnpike throughout the state.

Are you sure about Ohio? I swore I remember seeing enhanced mile-markers on I-90 between Cleveland and the PA Line.

[SkyPesos]

IDOT just doesn't seem to find them important. Even in rural areas of the state, they're spotty.

A lot of states seem to skimp on it in rural areas. Like Ohio is pretty good with enhanced markers in large urban areas, but only use the standard green full mile markers in rural areas. Same with Kentucky and Indiana, except Indiana use 0.5 mile (standard) markers in rural areas, which is a bit better.

With the rural areas question, I think Wisconsin have my preferred setup of the enhanced mile markers. Pretty much like what Ohio does (yes, I prefer blue over green, and median over right side) in addition to them existing in intervals of 0.2 in rural stretches of freeways.

Then there's Pennsylvania on the other end of the spectrum, with 0.1 mile markers on the turnpike throughout the state.

Are you sure about Ohio? I swore I remember seeing enhanced mile-markers on I-90 between Cleveland and the PA Line.

It's not used in rural areas most of the time, though there are exceptions. I-71 between Columbus and Cleveland uses 0.2 blue mile markers all the way, and I mentioned I-90 upthread.

[kirbykart]

IDOT just doesn't seem to find them important. Even in rural areas of the state, they're spotty.

A lot of states seem to skimp on it in rural areas. Like Ohio is pretty good with enhanced markers in large urban areas, but only use the standard green full mile markers in rural areas. Same with Kentucky and Indiana, except Indiana use 0.5 mile (standard) markers in rural areas, which is a bit better.

With the rural areas question, I think Wisconsin have my preferred setup of the enhanced mile markers. Pretty much like what Ohio does (yes, I prefer blue over green, and median over right side) in addition to them existing in intervals of 0.2 in rural stretches of freeways.

Then there's Pennsylvania on the other end of the spectrum, with 0.1 mile markers on the turnpike throughout the state.

Are you sure about Ohio? I swore I remember seeing enhanced mile-markers on I-90 between Cleveland and the PA Line.

It's not used in rural areas most of the time, though there are exceptions. I-71 between Columbus and Cleveland uses 0.2 blue mile markers all the way, and I mentioned I-90 upthread.

Oh, OK, that's interesting.

[Mr. Matté]

Apparently Burlington County, NJ had installed a couple of probably test enhanced markers along CR 630 in July 2019 (per the sticker on the signs, verified in Aug. 2019 GSV) that I've never noticed until last week, even though I've biked down this road a couple of times since then.




But there's a grand total of four: MPs 12 and 13 east and west (between US 206 and Birmingham-Arneys Mt. Road), and I haven't seen any others since on any other county roads.

[Rothman]

Service road.  Taft Road to I-81 SB:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/U8Btd5M6as3YRQoe7

[Mr. Matté]

Service road.  Taft Road to I-81 SB:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/U8Btd5M6as3YRQoe7

Oddly enough, the EMMs down on the southern part of I-81 (non-service road) seem like the I-81 shield is on an overlay of the original marker, but the shield is aged/faded. I took this back in August:

[vdeane]

^ You should see the ones on I-87 in Warren County.  In this case, these are overlays, since they were installed with US 87 shields by mistake.

[Quillz]

I don't know if I've commented or not. But I prefer black-on-white for mile markers. The color scheme for regulatory information. White-on-green is intended for guidance, as opposed to information. (Which of course is a very blurred line to begin with). To me, a mile marker is a perfect example of regulatory information. Although it's said white-on-black isn't as legible as white-on-green. So that might play a role.

[odditude]

I don't know if I've commented or not. But I prefer black-on-white for mile markers. The color scheme for regulatory information. White-on-green is intended for guidance, as opposed to information. (Which of course is a very blurred line to begin with). To me, a mile marker is a perfect example of regulatory information. Although it's said white-on-black isn't as legible as white-on-green. So that might play a role.

regulatory information? what, precisely, is a mile marker instructing drivers what to (not) do?

[Quillz]

I don't know if I've commented or not. But I prefer black-on-white for mile markers. The color scheme for regulatory information. White-on-green is intended for guidance, as opposed to information. (Which of course is a very blurred line to begin with). To me, a mile marker is a perfect example of regulatory information. Although it's said white-on-black isn't as legible as white-on-green. So that might play a role.

regulatory information? what, precisely, is a mile marker instructing drivers what to (not) do?

Regulatory, general purpose information. That's how the color scheme is intended to be used. White-on-green was originally intended for guidance (telling you how to get somewhere, what street that off-ramp goes to). Of course it's very blurred and almost any color scheme could be used, but I think black-on-white would be a good choice for mile markers.

It's like when I see signs telling you not to park here. But the color scheme is green-on-white, as opposed to red-on-white. Seems like green is the wrong color choice there because of its association with positive, non-restrictive information. Whereas I see black-on-white as just any sort of generic information. Perhaps regulatory was the wrong word choice. A mile marker is generic information, that's why I think of that color scheme.

[CrystalWalrein]

Apparently Burlington County, NJ had installed a couple of probably test enhanced markers along CR 630 in July 2019 (per the sticker on the signs, verified in Aug. 2019 GSV) that I've never noticed until last week, even though I've biked down this road a couple of times since then.




But there's a grand total of four: MPs 12 and 13 east and west (between US 206 and Birmingham-Arneys Mt. Road), and I haven't seen any others since on any other county roads.

I believe there's one on CR 542 in Washington Township as well. Burlington County either is only sporadically replacing old mile markers or quickly abandoned the idea, seeing as I know of them on just these two roads.

[kphoger]

I don't know if I've commented or not. But I prefer black-on-white for mile markers. The color scheme for regulatory information. White-on-green is intended for guidance, as opposed to information. (Which of course is a very blurred line to begin with). To me, a mile marker is a perfect example of regulatory information. Although it's said white-on-black isn't as legible as white-on-green. So that might play a role.

regulatory information? what, precisely, is a mile marker instructing drivers what to (not) do?

Regulatory, general purpose information. That's how the color scheme is intended to be used. White-on-green was originally intended for guidance (telling you how to get somewhere, what street that off-ramp goes to). Of course it's very blurred and almost any color scheme could be used, but I think black-on-white would be a good choice for mile markers.

It's like when I see signs telling you not to park here. But the color scheme is green-on-white, as opposed to red-on-white. Seems like green is the wrong color choice there because of its association with positive, non-restrictive information. Whereas I see black-on-white as just any sort of generic information. Perhaps regulatory was the wrong word choice. A mile marker is generic information, that's why I think of that color scheme.

You're wrong.  "Regulatory" doesn't mean "general purpose information".  The intention of regulatory signage is to tell drivers what the law indicates they must do or must not do.

Mile markers do not point to any traffic law, they do not tell drivers what to do, therefore they are not regulatory in nature.

Chapter 2B – Regulatory Signs, Barricades, and Gates

Section 2B.01 – Application of Regulatory Signs

Standard:
01 Regulatory signs shall be used to inform road users of selected traffic laws or regulations and indicate the applicability of the legal requirements.

02 Regulatory signs shall be installed at or near where the regulations apply. The signs shall clearly indicate the requirements imposed by the regulations and shall be designed and installed to provide adequate visibility and legibility in order to obtain compliance.

[Quillz]

Well as I said, I obviously chose the wrong word. I was going more for "general purpose." I simply prefer black-on-white for mile markers. But they aren't and thus it doesn't actually matter.

[kphoger]

What black-on-white signs are you thinking of, that are just general information purpose rather than actually restricting or prohibiting something?  About the only ones I can think of are "cross traffic does not stop" plaques under stop signs, and some of those are even yellow rather than white.

[hotdogPi]

What black-on-white signs are you thinking of, that are just general information purpose rather than actually restricting or prohibiting something?  About the only ones I can think of are "cross traffic does not stop" plaques under stop signs, and some of those are even yellow rather than white.

Route markers in most states.

There are also a few old white distance signs (e.g. Ware 15 →, Springfield 35 →), but those are clearly pre-standard.

[Quillz]

What black-on-white signs are you thinking of, that are just general information purpose rather than actually restricting or prohibiting something?  About the only ones I can think of are "cross traffic does not stop" plaques under stop signs, and some of those are even yellow rather than white.

Route markers would provide general purpose information (state, federal). "END FREEWAY" signs are black-on-white (although this could be more regulatory). There are many examples. I just like that color scheme being used for regulatory OR general purpose information. I think enhanced mile markers would work in that color scheme, set them apart from all the other white-on-green signs. But they work just fine in white-on-green. But the poll was asking what color scheme is preferred, and that's mine.