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NC: The proposed I-685

Started by tolbs17, November 20, 2021, 01:37:44 PM

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tolbs17

Here comes I-685...

I would take it all the way to I-40 (East of I-95). Although I think there's more major projects that should be done first.

https://nccarolinacore.com/

https://rantnc.com/2021/11/19/infrastructure-bill-clears-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-carolina-core/


wdcrft63

Quote from: tolbs17 on November 20, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
Here comes I-685...

I would take it all the way to I-40 (East of I-95). Although I think there's more major projects that should be done first.

https://nccarolinacore.com/

https://rantnc.com/2021/11/19/infrastructure-bill-clears-way-for-future-i-685-interstate-designation-in-carolina-core/
Dunn is pretty close to I-40, about 15 miles depending on how the road comes in. It would be an easy extension.

SkyPesos

*sigh* another new Interstate in NC.

ARMOURERERIC

It would almost make more sense to me for it to be a southern extension of 785.

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Flint1979

Quote from: SkyPesos on November 20, 2021, 06:30:05 PM
*sigh* another new Interstate in NC.
North Carolina is probably Fritzowl's favorite state.

LM117

#6
As popular as it is to shit on NCDOT, I don't think they're the bad guys here. Part of I-685 was proposed a few years ago by counties along the corridor, but it didn't get anywhere. Fast forward to this year, when Toyota is looking for a spot to build a battery plant and, all of a sudden, NC politicians got I-685 shoved into the infrastructure bill.

There's strong indications so far that Toyota will locate to the Greensboro-Randolph megasite, which conveniently sits alongs US-421. If Toyota confirms their location there, then it's a safe bet that I-685 was part of negotiations between the state and Toyota. The timing of this is too perfect for it not to be a coincidence, IMO.

Megasite map for those interested: http://greensboro-randolphmegasite.com/map/megasite
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

Tom958

Quote from: LM117 on November 21, 2021, 06:56:29 AM
As popular as it is to shit on NCDOT, I don't think they're the bad guys here. Part of I-685 was proposed a few years ago by counties along the corridor, but it didn't get anywhere. Fast forward to this year, when Toyota is looking for a spot to build a battery plant and, all of a sudden, NC politicians got I-685 shoved into the infrastructure bill.

There's strong indications so far that Toyota will locate to the Greensboro-Randolph megasite, which conveniently sits alongs US-421. If Toyota confirms their location there, then it's a safe bet that I-685 was part of negotiations between the state and Toyota. The timing of this is too perfect for it not to be a coincidence, IMO.


Both of NC's Republican Senators voted for the infrastructure bill despite scathing criticism from Trump. I'm not a fan of I-685, but that's how politics is supposed to work when it's not derailed by partisanship.

Anyone who opposes it is welcome to do so politically at the state level.

wdcrft63

Quote from: SkyPesos on November 20, 2021, 06:30:05 PM
*sigh* another new Interstate in NC.
FWIW, the message of North Carolina's interstate extensions is, "We are serious about infrastructure to support economic development."  It may or may not be effective in the end but it is highly visible and may attract favorable attention to the state.

SkyPesos

In that case, a red and blue shield isn't infrastructure, the actual road is. A freeway is still a freeway whether if it's an interstate or not.

wdcrft63

Quote from: SkyPesos on November 22, 2021, 11:17:12 PM
In that case, a red and blue shield isn't infrastructure, the actual road is. A freeway is still a freeway whether if it's an interstate or not.
Very true, but there's a big difference in PR. Four-landing US 17, even freeway sections, doesn't attract much notice outside the immediate area. Building new interstates like I-42 is much easier to sell nationally as a major step forward.

SkyPesos

Quote from: wdcrft63 on November 22, 2021, 11:27:20 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 22, 2021, 11:17:12 PM
In that case, a red and blue shield isn't infrastructure, the actual road is. A freeway is still a freeway whether if it's an interstate or not.
Very true, but there's a big difference in PR. Four-landing US 17, even freeway sections, doesn't attract much notice outside the immediate area. Building new interstates like I-42 is much easier to sell nationally as a major step forward.
Which is why I'm in favor of a shield design for US/State routes that denote freeway sections as a freeway (like pictured below), so those can get about the same hype and credit as interstate highways.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 15, 2021, 04:07:07 PM


sprjus4

Quote from: SkyPesos on November 22, 2021, 11:17:12 PM
In that case, a red and blue shield isn't infrastructure, the actual road is. A freeway is still a freeway whether if it's an interstate or not.
True, but it puts a label on the freeway and denotes it's a full freeway roadway.

The current roadway between Greensboro and Fayetteville (US-421 and NC-87) is definitely not close to being a full freeway. Having that I-685 designation combined with physical upgrades will show what it is.

sprjus4

Quote from: SkyPesos on November 22, 2021, 11:37:27 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on November 22, 2021, 11:27:20 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on November 22, 2021, 11:17:12 PM
In that case, a red and blue shield isn't infrastructure, the actual road is. A freeway is still a freeway whether if it's an interstate or not.
Very true, but there's a big difference in PR. Four-landing US 17, even freeway sections, doesn't attract much notice outside the immediate area. Building new interstates like I-42 is much easier to sell nationally as a major step forward.
Which is why I'm in favor of a shield design for US/State routes that denote freeway sections as a freeway (like pictured below), so those can get about the same hype and credit as interstate highways.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 15, 2021, 04:07:07 PM

But that's not a real thing - therefore you get the interstate designation instead.

IMO, a freeway corridor linking the Greensboro metropolitan area with the Fayetteville metropolitan area, along with I-95 to I-85, is a perfectly warranted interstate highway, regardless.

rickmastfan67

Added the 'NC' to the title of the thread, just so there was 0 confusion in the future due to the other 'Future' I-685 in AL.

Avalanchez71

Quote from: Tom958 on November 21, 2021, 07:12:41 AM
Quote from: LM117 on November 21, 2021, 06:56:29 AM
As popular as it is to shit on NCDOT, I don't think they're the bad guys here. Part of I-685 was proposed a few years ago by counties along the corridor, but it didn't get anywhere. Fast forward to this year, when Toyota is looking for a spot to build a battery plant and, all of a sudden, NC politicians got I-685 shoved into the infrastructure bill.

There's strong indications so far that Toyota will locate to the Greensboro-Randolph megasite, which conveniently sits alongs US-421. If Toyota confirms their location there, then it's a safe bet that I-685 was part of negotiations between the state and Toyota. The timing of this is too perfect for it not to be a coincidence, IMO.


Both of NC's Republican Senators voted for the infrastructure bill despite scathing criticism from Trump. I'm not a fan of I-685, but that's how politics is supposed to work when it's not derailed by partisanship.

Anyone who opposes it is welcome to do so politically at the state level.

It does appear that the temperature of the masses in NC is to bring home the bacon.

LM117

Quote from: LM117 on November 21, 2021, 06:56:29 AM
As popular as it is to shit on NCDOT, I don't think they're the bad guys here. Part of I-685 was proposed a few years ago by counties along the corridor, but it didn't get anywhere. Fast forward to this year, when Toyota is looking for a spot to build a battery plant and, all of a sudden, NC politicians got I-685 shoved into the infrastructure bill.

There's strong indications so far that Toyota will locate to the Greensboro-Randolph megasite, which conveniently sits alongs US-421. If Toyota confirms their location there, then it's a safe bet that I-685 was part of negotiations between the state and Toyota. The timing of this is too perfect for it not to be a coincidence, IMO.

Megasite map for those interested: http://greensboro-randolphmegasite.com/map/megasite

Looks like it's all but confirmed at this point.

https://greensboro.com/business/local/after-toyota-reports-surface-corps-of-engineers-files-public-notice-of-grading-the-greensboro-randolph/article_ebafba82-4bd9-11ec-be1c-c7d19f7b4aac.html#tracking-source=home-top-story
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

SkyPesos

Imagine if US 33 northwest of Columbus became I-370 solely because of the Honda plant in Marysville  :-D

Guess Honda doesn't really care about direct interstate access to their plants compared to Toyota.

Henry

At least Detroit's Big 3 is already covered in that area. GM alone had at least two plants off I-65: the former Saturn one in Spring Hill, TN (south of Nashville, which also doubled as its headquarters), and the Corvette-building one in Bowling Green, KY (which is still going strong today).

As for this I-685, I suspect that it will last longer than the one in Montgomery, especially if AL signs off on the I-14 corridor that may one day result in the truncation of I-85 to just west of GA.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

orulz

#19
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 22, 2021, 11:38:37 PM
True, but it puts a label on the freeway and denotes it's a full freeway roadway.

The current roadway between Greensboro and Fayetteville (US-421 and NC-87) is definitely not close to being a full freeway. Having that I-685 designation combined with physical upgrades will show what it is.

Let me preface this by saying, making this interstate corridor a priority is dumb. This is not what the state should be focusing on from a transportation perspective.

That said, while Sanford to Fayetteville (on NC 87) or Dunn (on US 421) would need complete reconstruction and probably some significant bypasses/new routes, Greensboro to Sanford is *very* close to a full freeway. There's a ~7 mile stretch between Old Liberty Rd (exit 183) and NC 62 (exit 190) with 4 at grade intersections. Could be fixed with a single interchange and perhaps two grade separations. This is comparable to what NCDOT did on US 70/I-42 in Pine Level. Basically, the sort of thing NCDOT whacks out in their sleep.



Now, I do not like driving this stretch of 421 in the rain. The pavement doesn't drain well, maybe it isn't crowned properly, I'm not sure - but it feels dangerous. Too many spots where you feel close to hydroplaning. I feel like this condition would not be acceptable on an interstate, so I wouldn't mind them taking the opportunity to deal with it. Shoulders are not interstate standard, though, so that would take some money and work to fix as well.

sprjus4

Quote from: SkyPesos on November 23, 2021, 09:50:54 AM
Imagine if US 33 northwest of Columbus became I-370 solely because of the Honda plant in Marysville  :-D

Guess Honda doesn't really care about direct interstate access to their plants compared to Toyota.
US-33 isn't connecting to anything major.

Connecting Greensboro and Fayetteville is a reasonable interstate corridor.

Strider

Quote from: Henry on November 23, 2021, 10:11:58 AM
At least Detroit's Big 3 is already covered in that area. GM alone had at least two plants off I-65: the former Saturn one in Spring Hill, TN (south of Nashville, which also doubled as its headquarters), and the Corvette-building one in Bowling Green, KY (which is still going strong today).

As for this I-685, I suspect that it will last longer than the one in Montgomery, especially if AL signs off on the I-14 corridor that may one day result in the truncation of I-85 to just west of GA.


I-85 will never be truncated. It will end at I-65 as usual or extended to I-20/I-59. I-14 is not going outside Texas anytime soon.

kendallhart808

#22
I feel like at one point or another such an Interstate was coming...although I personally feel like it should end at Sanford. If it makes it all the way to I-95 (if it gets to I-40 near Newton Grove I would be thoroughly shocked) the only real thru-route I see it being a part of is Wilmington-Greensboro. I'm not sure how much traffic it would really take off 40 in Raleigh.

The only thing I really dislike is the number. "685" would traditionally mean its a loop, but a loop around what? Raleigh? In that case it would make more sense as I-640. Someone else said it but I feel like it would make more sense as I-785 extension or I-373 or something (given it somewhat parallels I-73).

On another note, I could see this eventually becoming the justification for an I-87 southern extension to Sanford.

LM117

Quote from: kendallhart808 on November 27, 2021, 04:30:35 PM
I feel like at one point or another such an Interstate was coming...although I personally feel like it should end at Sanford. If it makes it all the way to I-95 (if it gets to I-40 near Newton Grove I would be thoroughly shocked) the only real thru-route I see it being a part of is Wilmington-Greensboro. I'm not sure how much traffic it would really take off 40 in Raleigh.

If I-685 were extended to I-40, I could see truck traffic using it to bypass the parking lot Triangle, especially those that want to avoid paying tolls on NC-540 to bypass Raleigh. It would also come in handy as an additional high-speed hurricane evacuation route.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder why NC wants I-685 to end at I-95 and not I-40. If Toyota is in the picture, you'd think they would want a more direct shot to the Port of Wilmington. Sure, you could hop up I-95 to Benson and then come back down I-40, but that adds mileage compared to I-685 cutting across to I-40.

QuoteOn another note, I could see this eventually becoming the justification for an I-87 southern extension to Sanford.

If I-87 were extended down US-1, it would more likely end at I-73/I-74 in Rockingham.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

Dirt Roads

Quote from: kendallhart808 on November 27, 2021, 04:30:35 PM
I feel like at one point or another such an Interstate was coming...although I personally feel like it should end at Sanford. If it makes it all the way to I-95 (if it gets to I-40 near Newton Grove I would be thoroughly shocked) the only real thru-route I see it being a part of is Wilmington-Greensboro. I'm not sure how much traffic it would really take off 40 in Raleigh.

Quote from: LM117 on November 27, 2021, 05:30:45 PM
If I-685 were extended to I-40, I could see truck traffic using it to bypass the parking lot Triangle, especially those that want to avoid paying tolls on NC-540 to bypass Raleigh. It would also come in handy as an additional high-speed hurricane evacuation route.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder why NC wants I-685 to end at I-95 and not I-40. If Toyota is in the picture, you'd think they would want a more direct shot to the Port of Wilmington. Sure, you could hop up I-95 to Benson and then come back down I-40, but that adds mileage compared to I-685 cutting across to I-40.

If history has any say in the matter, vacationers will decide whether to use I-685 and then take NC-55 from Dunn over to I-40 as an alternate route.  If they do this the way they did the Mount Airy -to- Lexington -to- Rockingham -to- Myrtle Beach pattern, NCDOT will eventually need to fill in the gap.



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