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Alps on the Road

Started by Alps, April 10, 2011, 02:06:55 AM

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Alps

#25
Day 9: I knew this would happen sooner or later, but when I open both front windows and the back right window, the car gets so breezy everything flies around - and one of my note sheets flew out of the car into the New Mexican desert. Luckily the main sheet was saved, and I remembered (a miracle given my brain) all three notes. So I soldier on with the update. (Why were all the windows open? Besides for clearer photos, it was over 90 degrees in some areas. In April. I'm really glad I'm not doing this trip in summer.) The car has hit 5,000 miles, and the trip is just about to hit 4,000 miles.
The morning sun was surreal. It rose well above the treetops and was still a faded red as if it were a refraction of the actual sun below the horizon. I was convinced the real sun was still below the mountains until the red sun (you could look right at it with no trouble) suddenly turned blazing orange. Welcome to the Southwest.
I started my trip 15 minutes late, thinking that the later legs of my trip were overestimated timewise. Well, after the first leg of the trip, I was already 30 minutes ahead of schedule. At this rate, I'd have to make a decision - get a head start on tomorrow's route, or drive some extra roads today? While ahead of schedule, I decided to drive Loop 288 around famously bland Denton. I can now say I've experienced as much of that city as anyone, since living there doesn't really give you any more to experience. After that, I suddenly noticed that my trip time estimates were right on - I now recall that I downgraded the time for each segment from 4 hours to 3:45, which ate up my expected time savings. So no more loops for fun.
I saw one Amarillo 72 ounce steak ad, just inside Wise County before the twinned section and presumably for US 287. I'm glad I didn't see any other, because I had more than enough following old 66/I-40 through New Mexico into Texas. Every few miles they were trying to get you into their subpar steakhouse in the hopes of distracting you from your mediocre meat to watch a 72 ounce eating spectacle. (Like the alliteration? "Mediocre meat" has a ring to it.)
In Oklahoma, I'd missed the tornadoes by half a day or 100 miles. In Texas, east of Graham, I skipped by wildfires that were within a mild or two. I smelled the smoke before I saw the haze distinct from the rest of the grayish sky. It's been really dry down here, which doesn't strike me as unusual for this part of the country, but there were several wildfires today. This one had a fire engine stationed on the road but visibility was not yet reduced. Makes me wonder if 380 had to be closed at any point for visibility issues or proximity of flames.
Lesson 2 in how to pass for a native: Lubbock is pronounced Lub Ock, not Lubbick.

Random, unrelated question that popped into my head - How many county seats have never had a US highway running through them? Pretty sure Bandera County, TX has never had any US highways anywhere inside, but most counties here do have at least one running through a seat. Another comment unrelated to anything - squeegee handles are really short out here. Unlike the East Coast, I can't reach all the way across the windshield with these. I'd never have thought of it as a regional thing, but the pattern is crystal clear.
Scenery starts to return as I get within about 100 miles of New Mexico, and really bursts into full bloom once I'm past Roswell. So do oil derricks, a staple of west Texas farms that sit right in the middle of crops. Taste the flavor! They also bleed over into eastern New Mexico (as do crops and cattle pastures), since geology and geography don't obey the politics of straight lines. Capitan Peak is visible for over 100 miles, since it rises nearly a full mile above the rest of the plateau landscape. Nothing else really pokes up until well west of there - the San Mateo Mountains, for example, which I'm now sitting in the shadow of but which I saw for a good 50 miles to the east. Visibility is so much farther out here than back East.
In Hondo, I saw a few deer cross the road. As I looked in my rearview mirror, I saw a deer crossing sign right where they had crossed. Never before seen deer actually obey the law. Maybe they've evolved into the dominant species in this area.

Earlier in the trip, I made the mistake of writing that I was lucky enough to have never encountered a train at a rail crossing. A mile from the end of US 380, I finally found one. It was moving quickly enough that I had a less-than five minute wait, compared to the half hour or more I've experienced at some Midwestern crossings in my life. Then I got across to find out the Owl Bar is closed on Sundays. Guess I'll have to get breakfast there in the morning and hope that doesn't ruin my day's schedule (it opens at 8, an hour after I really wanted to be on the road, but I have slack time built in for the next few days).
I wouldn't say I'm the only person to have driven the length of US 380 in one day, especially if you count the pre-Interstate era, but there can't have been that many given the start and end points. This is by far the longest route I've ever clinched in a single day's drive, handily beating out NS 4 or I-69. It changes very gradually from east to west, as the forest fades into farmlands, into grasslands, then the bluffs begin and the grass (and cattle) disappears, replaced by sand. But if you compare the eastern end of 380 to the western, mountainous end, the difference is striking. My timing gave me sunset behind the San Mateo Mountains as I cruised into San Antonio, NM (and lost my auxiliary note sheet), so I couldn't have played that better. That could be the only sunset I see, although tomorrow is a possibility if I eat at the Owl Bar in the morning. I generally try to drive only during well-lit hours (6:30 or 7 to 7 or 7:30).

Route (TX-NM): 30 WB-Old 67 SB (WB?)-FM 499 WB-302 Spur WB-69 SB-Business 69 NB-302 Spur WB-380 WB; loop back to 380 via 75 SB-Exchange Pkwy. EB-5 NB (old 75)-possible Spur 359 WB; loop via 35 SB, 35E SB, Loop 288, 35 SB.
Clinched: FM 499, TX Loop 288, Spur 302, Spur 359?, US 380 (TX-NM) - the question mark is because Spur 359 is completely unsigned, and I can't find any evidence to either suggest it's still a state highway or ever was
Notes: FM 499 just keeps going and going - it starts at the frontage, reaches Texas 24, is actually signed as a multiplex (that's quite rare for a Farm or Ranch Road), then breaks away again and comes back to the frontage, turns onto it (this is getting more and more unusual), then leaves again before ending at 302. It truly encompasses all of the old alignment of US 67, but it's so long, why not just put 67 back on it? I-30 can live on its own. Speaking of which, the short part of former US 67 in Brashear not only had all of the US 67 signs intact (so how long ago was it moved onto I-30?), but they were signed East-West. That's the predominant directionality of 67 in Texas and matches the pair with I-30, although 67 is an odd number. (67-30 being the only odd/even US/I pair.)
I-30 exit numbers are all tacked on, missing on one exit sign and not part of any of the gore signs. I presume this is because of the I-20 rerouting south of DFW that caused I-30 to get extended.
US 380 has one button copy sign. That's how rare it is in Texas at the rate they replace signs. It's the WB exit gore sign at US 81/287 NB. If you live near there, go now, it'll be gone Tuesday (rough estimate). Dualization along 380 is in fits and starts. For example, there's a new stretch 10 miles east of Farmersville that's being extended to Greenville over a new railroad track crossing (not yet open), but then there's a long two-lane section between that new stretch, which wasn't even on the 2009 TxDOT state map, and the older dualized Farmersville section. There's another new section being constructed in Wise County, and an open one not on the 2009 map west from Decatur to Bridgeport. It ends at TX 101/114 due to a railroad overpass on 114/380 that hasn't been improved yet. I imagine that's somewhere in TxDOT's plans.
New nomination for the widest center turn lane, possibly anywhere in the world - over 40 feet on US 281/380 for a good 3,000 feet or so. Probably more like 50 feet. Forget turn lane, you could use this for two rows of parking and tailgating and still have enough room for left turn traffic to squeeze by. Speaking of wide roadways, I missed a turn for US 380 in Post and ended up on Main Street, around the Garza County Courthouse and west. Check it out - it's nearly 200 feet wide and has no lane stripes. You could break the speed limit driving in circles in the middle of the road. You could probably build houses down the middle and have a lane on either side with parking. I have no idea how cars are supposed to use that much pavement or why it was all paved instead of mostly grassed. I also have a new contender for longest straightaway - US 380 west of Caprock, NM.

Texas definitely uses Botts dots for more than just construction, though I'm not sure that TxDOT itself does. The ones I saw as a permanent installation were on Exchange Pkwy. in Sherman. In that same area, note that when US 75 and TX 121 split, the Sam Rayburn Tollway is only signed by name and not as Toll 121 - but it's signed as 121 from the frontage road. What? US 380 has awful signal timing through McKinney coming up to US 75. It's a shameful display of trying to slow traffic down, IMO - it would be easy to get a signal progression going given how close many of the lights are.
The I-35E/35W split heavily favors I-35E. It's only two lanes in each direction, which I have to think is a problem during rush hour, and both lanes go to/from 35E. 35W is treated as an exit that then widens to two lanes - I didn't catch the NB merge but I presume it again favors 35E in a similar way. Fort Worth can't be too happy with that arrangement. 35W doesn't really count as a mainline based on lane count.


J N Winkler

Quote from: AlpsROADS on April 18, 2011, 12:20:54 AMTexas definitely uses Botts dots for more than just construction, though I'm not sure that TxDOT itself does. The ones I saw as a permanent installation were on Exchange Pkwy. in Sherman. In that same area, note that when US 75 and TX 121 split, the Sam Rayburn Tollway is only signed by name and not as Toll 121 - but it's signed as 121 from the frontage road. What?

There has been a lot of churn in how NTTA infrastructure is trailblazed.  When I started following NTTA contract lettings in 2004, there were still individual marker designs for each facility, and some of the sign blank shapes involved were unusual.  Then, a few years later, NTTA decided to move to the same style of rectangular marker for all of its facilities, with the differentiation being done through facility name on the marker rather than other design features.  There has also been a marked tendency to suppress signing by shield on guide signs.  When the IH 35E/PGBT stack was being built about 10 years ago, the original construction plans called for "PGBT" to appear within the standard Texas state route shield (in much the same way as "OSR" for Old San Antonio Road, which is an unnumbered state highway), but this was altered by change order to read "President George Bush Turnpike" in white on green.  Similarly NTTA started with SH 121T shields for both the Sam Rayburn Tollway and the Southwest Parkway, but is retreating from this and will probably sign them by name without shields.

I believe the PGBT is on TxDOT's books as SH 190 and the NTTA contracts dealing with the PGBT and its extensions have TxDOT CCSJs corresponding to SH 190, but so far as I am aware, SH 190 shields appear only on the frontage roads--never the main lanes.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

US71

#27
Quote from: Brian556 on April 16, 2011, 10:39:14 PM
On State Line Av, north of Loop 14, I noticed an incorrect sign. It says NORTH US 71/59. This is incorrect because 59 had been rerouted to the west. Also, normally the low number is on top. On this assembly 71 is on top.

There's another assembly just north of the 71/67/82 junction.

EDIT
There's also this oddball a few miles north:
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

US71

Quote from: AlpsROADS on April 16, 2011, 10:57:22 PM
I got confused enough by the different routes swapping positions around town that I didn't question anything on State Line. Too late now.

The route shields are different. Texas uses the 80's style, Arkansas uses 60's style:


Texas-style


Arkansas-style
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

agentsteel53

70s style.  1970 specification.  yep, that abomination has been around for over 40 years now.  kinda helps explain why it's so easy to find.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

US71

Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 18, 2011, 12:10:56 PM
70s style.  1970 specification.  yep, that abomination has been around for over 40 years now.  kinda helps explain why it's so easy to find.

Texas uses it almost exclusively. There were some 60's specs in Sulphur Springs a couple years ago, but they've been replaced.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

agentsteel53

Quote from: US71 on April 18, 2011, 01:03:30 PM


Texas uses it almost exclusively. There were some 60's specs in Sulphur Springs a couple years ago, but they've been replaced.

I think Texas switched over around 1976.

there's one on I-10/US-85 just north of El Paso, and a few in Houston on Alt 90, and that's all I remember offhand.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

Brian556

#32
Steve-
You drove through territory that is very familiar to me (I live in Lewisville TX, just south of Denton,) so I can help you with many of your questions.

Spur 359 in Mckinney is signed on US 75 BGS's and there is a reassurance sign east of US 75. I have pics of these.
Spur 399 is the old SH 121 from US 75 to SH 5 in McKinney.

If you ever need to know if a highway is still on system, just check the Highway Designation Files on the TxDOT website.

Did you take pics of the Abandoned bridge on Us 380 north (west) of Graham?http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=33.153763,-98.599453&spn=0,0.021887&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.153763,-98.599453&panoid=iDMyuUO7oEAEis_axToW2Q&cbp=12,22.17,,0,0


Concerning the Sam Rayburn Tollway- The FR's are TX 121, The mainlanes are Sam Rayburn Tollway. The mainlanes were originally signed as 121 TOLL, but that changed when NTTA took them over from TxDOT.
I noticed the lack of a TX 121 shield on the NB US 75 overhead. I have a pic of it.

As for the I-35 merge at Denton, I-35W narrows to one lane and merges into I-35E. This causes backups on I-35W.

I have pics of several of the situations you discussed. If you private message me your email adress, I would be willing to provide you with any that you request.

Alps

Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 18, 2011, 01:35:43 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 18, 2011, 01:03:30 PM


Texas uses it almost exclusively. There were some 60's specs in Sulphur Springs a couple years ago, but they've been replaced.

I think Texas switched over around 1976.

there's one on I-10/US-85 just north of El Paso, and a few in Houston on Alt 90, and that's all I remember offhand.
I do happen to be at Exit 11 of aforementioned highway right now (I-10/US 85). I could theoretically go find said old shield. If you could tell me where it is?

Alps

Quote from: Brian556 on April 18, 2011, 07:16:25 PM
Steve-
You drove through territory that is very familiar to me (I live in Lewisville TX, just south of Denton,) so I can help you with many of your questions.

Spur 359 in Mckinney is signed on US 75 BGS's and there is a reassurance sign east of US 75. I have pics of these.
Spur 399 is the old SH 121 from US 75 to SH 5 in McKinney.

I was following Virginia Ave. and didn't see a trace of signage along it or any evidence of it being a state highway. Was I on the wrong road?

QuoteIf you ever need to know if a highway is still on system, just check the Highway Designation Files on the TxDOT website.

Did you take pics of the Abandoned bridge on Us 380 north (west) of Graham?http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=33.153763,-98.599453&spn=0,0.021887&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.153763,-98.599453&panoid=iDMyuUO7oEAEis_axToW2Q&cbp=12,22.17,,0,0
When I saw that thing, I made sure to walk out across it. You bet.

Quote
Concerning the Sam Rayburn Tollway- The FR's are TX 121, The mainlanes are Sam Rayburn Tollway. The mainlanes were originally signed as 121 TOLL, but that changed when NTTA took them over from TxDOT.
I noticed the lack of a TX 121 shield on the NB US 75 overhead. I have a pic of it.
That makes sense with the 121 shield being on the frontage road. I want to say I did see a Toll 121 shield somewhere in the mix but I was going by quickly and it was far off the mainline.

Quote
As for the I-35 merge at Denton, I-35W narrows to one lane and merges into I-35E. This causes backups on I-35W.

I have pics of several of the situations you discussed. If you private message me your email adress, I would be willing to provide you with any that you request.
I believe you can just click on my name and see my email address. If not, it's posted in several places on my website.

Alps

#35
Day 10 - Two Socorros, one cup time zone. Feeling kinda tired so I'll leave most of the writeup for tomorrow. I'm also leaving the last hour of driving for tomorrow from here to Columbus, because I was running a bit too much out of daylight by the end. Just know that gypsum gets into everything. Everything. I still feel like I need to absorb ten pounds of water.
I get the first direction of the day wrong, following the frontage road past NM 1 until it dead ends. Well, now I know it'll be a great day. Back and forth it goes. The temperature is perfect at 8 AM, which means broiling by midday. I enjoyed the quick descent and ascent into and out of Nogal Canyon on 1, and I can now say "I got gas in Elephant Butte," but maybe not with a straight face. Then I find out NM 195 is closed. Then I find out US 70 is open through White Sands all day. Then I find out the old S curve on NM 185 is inaccessible from either side. Back and forth...
The Rio Grande valley is basically the only fertile part of New Mexico. Old US 85 followed it the whole way, which I am now doing on the former pieces. There are a lot of small towns and farms south of Truth or Consequences, and thus plenty of local traffic the whole way. It just doesn't match my impression of the rest of the state - seems more like East Texas or even the California valleys. I had an enjoyable time at Fort Selden talking with the staff there and walking around the fort's ruins. Very knowledgable, and informed me about Radium Springs. Hopefully someday that opens back up, but the owners right now have no interest in that (whereas the old owners did but weren't able to get the permits in order). Why not make it a state park?
The best fortune of the day was Old Mesilla. I loved entering La Posta - it felt like I walked into an open-air Mexican rainforest villa. The food is very reasonably priced and the atmosphere is wonderful. The town square in Mesilla is also enjoyable and historic - a 180 from "Old Town" in Albuquerque that was anything but.
Continuing on the road, San Agustin Pass on US 70 east of Las Cruces was beautiful. The road just starts climbing and climbing, then drops and drops, with panoramic views on either side. National Park Week, which I wasn't aware of (the dates, not the existence) meant a free ride through the dunes of White Sands. That's something else you have to see in New Mexico - they're even whiter than you could imagine. The isolation when you walk out on them (assuming you're not near other people doing the same) is baffling. Imagine crossing the desert for days and coming upon such bleakness with no water in sight. Well, somehow, our early pioneers made it across this part of the country, and natives lived in this very desert for hundreds of years before that. The country gets bigger and bigger the more places I visit. The silver lining in not being able to walk around Radium Springs was being able to take more time at White Sands.
El Paso is very Hispanic. Many signs are entirely in Spanish, and many of the English signs are for Mexican insurance (required to cross the border). I did find "downtown", all block or two of it, north of the ends of US 62/85. No one was there; they must have all been across the border for the day (that's a joke). There seems to be no police force monitoring roads (speeds) - just Border Patrol at every turn.

Route: NM 1 SB-25 SB-181 SB-195 SB-179 SB (forced turn)-51 WB-Bus 25 SB-187 SB-26 EB-185 SB-Mesilla-70 EB-old 54/70 NB/EB-54 SB/WB-110 SB-62 WB-Loop 375-20 NB-Spur 37 EB-10 EB
Clinched: NM 1, 179, 185, 187, 195; TX I-110, Loop 375, Spur 37
Notes: NM 1 takes an unsigned turn right away. NM 195 appears to now end at NM 179 because it's blockaded for most of the rest of its length over a pair of dams (I assume for security reasons). Had I known, I might have stuck with 181. NM has a lot of old JCT signs but very few old zia shields - I finally found two on NM 185 late in my journey, but add that to zero for my trip across Old 66. I'll see what happens tomorrow on NM 9 but it seems unlikely I'll find any more. The first one I found was right after coming out of the failed attempt to visit the old Radium Springs bathhouse, and wanting to get a photo of the typo Fort Seldon (instead of Selden) sign on 185 SB. So I turned north, and right there was the old zia shield before I U-turned. The old US 85 S-curve is completely inaccessible; the top half is on private ranch land (active use), and the bottom half is also on private land (passive use) behind several fences and too much barbed wire to cross. Old US highways in general in the west, not just 66 but now also old 85, have dips at washes instead of bridges. That would mean pre-Interstate, a good rain might force traffic to detour hundreds of miles or wait it out for a couple of days, cutting off the two sides of the country. Amazing that this was designed like this.
I saw my first immigration checkpoint on NM 185 NB, but I was going SB. Obviously they would all be heading away from Mexico. Later on I do finally get caught in one on US 70, but it goes very quickly. They clearly know what they're looking for, and it's not me.

More candidates for longest straightaway - I counted US 70 through White Sands to be 23 miles long (finally it clicked that I should count the length), and I then forgot to count US 54 north of the Texas border but I believe it's even longer than 23 miles. What's interesting about both cases is that they are angled instead of following a north-south or east-west grid. Every few miles through White Sands Missile Range, US 70 has portable toilets. I guess it's better than having people wander off the side of the road and aiming in the direction of unmarked, unexploded ordinance.
Add a fourth state to the Botts dots list - New Mexico! Found them used on the left turn arrows in the median of Main St. between NM 28 and US 70 in Las Cruces. And TxDOT does use them in permanent applications: US 54 west of FM 2529 in El Paso. Speaking of US 54, who decided that its exit numbering should start at 20? And the EB side has button copy! (I later found a full set of button copy signs for the Zaragoza Bridge on Loop 375 EB.) US 62 ends silently downtown and turns into US 85 - your only clue is looking sideways at the end to see the shields facing the side streets. I've now seen both ends of 62, a few hundred of the northeasternmost miles starting in KY, and scattered areas in TX and AR. Starting to think of finishing this road as a long-term goal.
Whatever road is on the Mexican side of the Rio Grande has a lot of trucks and seems to be freeway grade. Loop 375 is mostly cars and gets quite backed up. The new north-south freeway that extends all the way up to US 62/180 is built to be six lanes wide (extra-wide left shoulder) and let me tell you, it's already ready for that restriping. I did hit El Paso during rush hour, so maybe my perception is skewed, but the east-west part of Loop 375 ran the slowest with some actual near-stopping conditions; it cleared up around Zaragoza Bridge, the first border crossing or any exit that goes somewhere from the EB side. At least the north-south part kept moving, if thickly and sluggishly up to FM 659. The 2009 TxDOT map suggests Loop 375 was all divided or undivided surface road instead of a freeway. If the map was accurate (and I couldn't say it would be), that would be some hellacious traffic. There are stubs for extending the freeway past Railroad Ave. (Business 54 area) on west toward US 54, but unlikely to result in a full freeway US 54 interchange anytime soon.
El Paso has a new freeway, Spur 601, not on the 2009 map. It serves the airport and is mostly freeway except for the Loop 375 interchange. Why does TxDOT keep doing this? Why end a freeway at a diamond?

J N Winkler

Quote from: AlpsROADS on April 19, 2011, 12:29:10 AMThe 2009 TxDOT map suggests Loop 375 was all divided or undivided surface road instead of a freeway. If the map was accurate (and I couldn't say it would be), that would be some hellacious traffic. There are stubs for extending the freeway past Railroad Ave. (Business 54 area) on west toward US 54, but unlikely to result in a full freeway US 54 interchange anytime soon.

Nope, a freeway interchange is going to be built.  The contract was let just this month and was one of three Loop 375 contracts in the TxDOT April 2011 letting.  Loop 375 will go straight through what is now the volleyball at US 54, so it will be full freeway starting at the Border Patrol museum and running east.

The official TxDOT saddle-blanket map has historically not differentiated between freeways and at-grade divided highways except for Interstates, which get their own line style, and this is one reason it is not that useful for urban navigation.

QuoteEl Paso has a new freeway, Spur 601, not on the 2009 map. It serves the airport and is mostly freeway except for the Loop 375 interchange.

SS 601 is an odd bird--the construction procurement was handled (apparently) by the El Paso district as a DBFO rather than being processed through the TxDOT letting as usual.  I think BRAC funding was involved somewhere.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

agentsteel53

Quote from: AlpsROADS on April 19, 2011, 12:00:43 AM

I do happen to be at Exit 11 of aforementioned highway right now (I-10/US 85). I could theoretically go find said old shield. If you could tell me where it is?

mainline southbound but I do not remember where, other than it is much closer to El Paso than Anthony.  Exit 10 is approximately correct, I think.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

Alps

Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 19, 2011, 11:19:58 AM
Quote from: AlpsROADS on April 19, 2011, 12:00:43 AM

I do happen to be at Exit 11 of aforementioned highway right now (I-10/US 85). I could theoretically go find said old shield. If you could tell me where it is?

mainline southbound but I do not remember where, other than it is much closer to El Paso than Anthony.  Exit 10 is approximately correct, I think.
Did not see one. For those following along, my internet is very borrowed so I won't be updating till tomorrow. Hopefully.

Brian556

QuoteI was following Virginia Ave. and didn't see a trace of signage along it or any evidence of it being a state highway. Was I on the wrong road?
You were on the right road. I drove Spur 359 eastbound from US 75 a few months ago. It was signed well from that direction.

Alps

I was going to keep blogging this but I just can't. It was a fun idea at first but it became too much - I need more relaxation with my downtime. Some of the notes I've written will show up in the webpages I eventually get to.

nexus73

Thanks for what you did post Alps.  They have been fun to read!

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

Alps

Quote from: nexus73 on April 21, 2011, 11:27:12 AM
Thanks for what you did post Alps.  They have been fun to read!

Rick
Appreciate it. I brought the remaining notes home just in case I'm so inclined to post them at a later date. I have very few notes from Thursday and none from today (just flying home over canyons), which was my vacation from blogging. :P I might actually start to flesh these ideas out and create a book down the road - obviously with some photos from the road.

hbelkins

Quote from: AlpsROADS on April 18, 2011, 12:20:54 AM
Random, unrelated question that popped into my head - How many county seats have never had a US highway running through them?

Goodness, Kentucky has a bunch.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Alps

A new installment of Alps on the Road starts today!, chronicling my long weekend centering around the upcoming Wausau meet.

Day 1: Drive Slow, Ohio!
The Route: I-80 WB to US 220 NB, PA 150 WB, former PA 364 to Beech Creek Rd. and up to PA 144 NB. PA 120 WB to PA 555 WB (clinch), PA 255 SB and straight onto US 219 NB. PA 830 WB to PA 950 (clinch), US 322 WB to Fuller Rd. and up onto I-80 WB once more. Exit 62 to PA 68 SB, PA 58 WB all the way to US 19, and south all the way to US 40 WB. PA 18 NB to PA 844 WB to PA 331 WB (clinch), including the northern half of former 331 cut off by an abandoned bridge, and into WV. I took WV 67 (clinch), circled up to WV 27 (clinch), down Camp Ground Rd. to WV 67 and a few fractional routes: 3/2, 32/1, 11/1. Followed WV 88 SB (clinch - had been cut off by a fallen tree last time) to US 40 WB for an old I-70 shield, then east to the old National Road bridge at WV 88 SB for some photos. Finally I headed west on I-470 to US 40 all the way out to Columbus (including a few old alignments while 40/70 are multiplexed), then jumped on I-70 to Richmond, where I am now, for an Ohio clinch.

The Notes: Today was bracketed by torrential downpours. I left at 3:30 AM and dealt with blinding rain all through NJ. The next round hit me west of Dayton (thankfully, west of button copy as well) and had knocked out power in Richmond for a couple of hours. Fortunately, everything was working by the time I pulled in. The nice thing about heavy rain is that at least you get a lot of waterfalls when the road goes through rock cuts. The not-so-nice thing is that it leaves a lot of rocks on the road. First one I noticed was PA 120 at daybreak - some serious damage could have been done by those rocks! Get out there, PennDOT! I did come across several others over the course of the day, some of which were nowhere near rock cuts... but at least half of those situations may have been crabapples instead of rocks. Hard to tell when it's overcast.

Realized in PA that I'd forgotten to bring all my state maps with me for the trip. I already want to check every 5 minutes to see my progress. Guess I'll have to trust my directions and timings. As it turned out, my directions were spot-on, didn't get lost once, and arrived in Richmond down to the minute that I had originally anticipated (7:30). That last fact almost terrifies me. I guess I'm really good at trip estimating after so much experience. I gained time in a few legs, lost in one, and the last four legs were all within a few minutes of what I estimated.

Beech Creek Road quickly turned into dirt leaving old 364 (now just Monument Orviston Rd.), and it was a great ride for a few miles until the potholes set in. That made it more like NL 91, and while I didn't get flat tires, there were a lot of cringe-inducing moments as I made my way north. I definitely recommend it, but only if you have an SUV or similar. It was easy to follow northbound - my one note was "when in doubt, bear right".

I saved a lot of time on my first few legs. Taking Beech Creek at 40 mph, in particular, shaved a half hour off early. I needed every minute of that extra time thanks to US 19, which is a miserable ride from Cranberry almost down to Washington. I had written that Cranberry is an unnatural, unholy pestilence upon western Pennsylvania with high gas prices, until I found out that it's even worse south of Pittsburgh. So I definitely do NOT recommend trying 19 here. Check out Truck 19, maybe.

Google Maps is wrong - surprise, surprise. It has old PA 331 marked just fine, but not the new one. 331 is now signed north on 231 and west down Mt. Hope Ridge Rd., which is somewhat longer than going south on 231 and west along the riverbank, but has the distinct advantage of being state-maintained. Then again, all of 331 west of 231 is rather dubious as a state highway anyway, with no center line and 20-foot width. I had the same feeling about PA 58 between 368 and 338, except add 15 mph curves and a vertical alignment that would even make a horse seasick. This is a good argument to have county roads...

... as is Hukill Hill Rd. Nominally, it's CR 32/1 and state-maintained. What I noticed is that just after the steel grate bridge, it became a dirt road. More precisely, a wet mud road with a 15% upgrade and deep, slippery truck ruts. I gave it a good college try and slip-slid my way up the hill at 15 mph. Had someone else come the other way, I would have ended up sliding desperately backwards all the way down to the bridge, with disastrous results. After I got up the hill, there was a similarly steep but luckily short downhill that I shifted into first gear for. Yes, it was as hard to navigate as if it were ice-covered. So, right there, way to go WVDOH. But it gets better. When I got fully to the top of the hill, I passed a steamroller and had to stop dead as a bulldozer was working with a dump truck splayed across the entire 12-foot width of the road. For all the world, it looked like the bulldozer had picked apart the right half of the road (all 6 feet of it - I could barely fit on the rest) and was slowly loading it into the dump truck. Maybe by this time tomorrow there will be no more Hukill Hill on the road, and it will just dead end right there? After 5 minutes of waving politely, they finally picked up and let me get on through. They were very polite, pulling over more than once to let me by their vehicles hauling away massive quantities of state highway. Once I got past that patch there was GRAVEL, which was simply a godsend at that point. Make this another road I wouldn't recommend.

One other WV note - after all the square (state primary), circle ("county"/state secondary), and pentagonal ("driveway"/state tertiary) routes, I passed a TRIANGLE route 16 off of WV 27. Just how many shapes does this state have?? (I _think_ but am far from certain that the triangle was the predecessor to the pentagon.)

Guernsey County numbers locations on the Old National Road. Fairview, located just west of the I-70 onramp, is #1. Middlebourne, located just off the next I-70 exit, is #4. Presumably #2 and #3 are reachable east of Exit 193, but that stretch ultimately does not connect to the Fairview stretch. Speaking of National Road, there's a really neat dead end at Exit 204, reminiscent of old 66 near L.A.

Ohio drivers are every bit as miserable as they're made out to be. Even trucks will just sit in the left lane going the same speed as the right lane. I think it's a disease that's contagious to anyone entering the state. I've half-jokingly proposed Ohio Lanes: add a lane at the far left side of the freeway, set the speed limit at 40 mph, and limit occupancy to Ohio drivers. Guaranteed to operate at capacity all the time.

Saw a biker pulled over at the exit from a weigh station on I-70 (leave it to Ohio to actually have an open weigh station, they're always spoiling the party). I wonder: how do bikers and truckers get along? Are they great friends because they share a common cause of banding together and staying safe on the road? Are they enemies because the trucks always get in the way and the bikes always cut the trucks off? Or do they just treat each other like anyone else?

Passed a sign (and got a photo) saying "666 IMPASSABLE TO HEAVY TRUCKS." I know there's a good joke to be had in there. On another jocular note, "Licking" Township is a definite misnomer. There's nothing there except a traffic light. It should switch names with Boring, OR (which is far from boring).

US 40 notes: Oddly, OH 16 just ends multiplexed in the middle of Zanesville, not even at another cross route. I wonder what the genesis of that situation was. There's excellent signal progression heading outbound from Columbus in the PM, and I presume they'd do the same in the AM. I noticed that I was hitting every red light going into the city WB (against very heavy EB traffic). Through the middle of the city I moved very well, and then simply flew out the west side with a wave of green lights. The west side has nowhere near the traffic of the east side, for which I'm grateful - I only hit about 5 minutes of delay right at I-270, not the wave of traffic I noticed EB coming almost from Bexley. (Bexley, incidentally, is a beautiful town isolated in the middle of a bleh city. Quite a jewel in the rough. Wonder what the dynamics are with Columbus and downtrodden Whitehall.)

As I was exiting Columbus, I saw Schroedinger Funeral Services. Bad idea, because you don't know whether the body is dead or alive until you open the casket and observe it. And if you're not careful, there's a 50% chance they've stuck a cat in there as well. Again, gotta look inside...

Work on I-70 continues to 6-lane the highway between Columbus and Dayton - right now, the WB lanes are split with 1 lane on the EB side and 1 lane on the far left of the WB side in the OH 41 vicinity. It looks like it'll be ready in 2012, but there's still a good-sized stretch west of there with no work done yet.

P.S. Thanks to the recommendation of one of the hotel clerks I talked to, when I asked for a non-chain restaurant, I got to clinch OH 320 and also had some very good BBQ. If you're ever hungry at the OH/IN line near I-70, I recommend Baumbach's just south of New Paris on 320.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

#45
Good thing we didn't meet up today. I had to spend the afternoon unloading a truck of old newspapers and photos in Delaware.
The reason the west of Oh 16 is at the eastbank of the Scioto River (in Columbus, NOT Zanesville) is that Civic Center Dr. originally carried Oh 31 (forerunner to US 33).  

Also, Bexley - 1st generation suburb, old money. Whitehall - Post WW2 suburb, "abandoned" in the early 1990s.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

nexus73

Thanks for the Boring OR mention Steve.  Do you know why Oregon is so wet?  Because it only has one Drain!

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

NE2

Quote from: Steve on September 29, 2011, 10:35:23 PM
One other WV note - after all the square (state primary), circle ("county"/state secondary), and pentagonal ("driveway"/state tertiary) routes, I passed a TRIANGLE route 16 off of WV 27. Just how many shapes does this state have?? (I _think_ but am far from certain that the triangle was the predecessor to the pentagon.)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrew-turnbull/5904974529/ has some information on the triangular "delta" routes. Here's a photo: http://www.millenniumhwy.net/WV_trip_June_2002_Day_3/WV_trip_June_2002_Day_3-Pages/Image99.html
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

PAHighways

Quote from: Steve on September 29, 2011, 10:35:23 PMThe nice thing about heavy rain is that at least you get a lot of waterfalls when the road goes through rock cuts. The not-so-nice thing is that it leaves a lot of rocks on the road. First one I noticed was PA 120 at daybreak - some serious damage could have been done by those rocks! Get out there, PennDOT! I did come across several others over the course of the day, some of which were nowhere near rock cuts... but at least half of those situations may have been crabapples instead of rocks. Hard to tell when it's overcast.

I've been on PA 120 in a rainstorm in the middle of Summer and experienced the same thing; however, PennDOT plow trucks were out clearing the rocks off.

Quote from: Steve on September 29, 2011, 10:35:23 PMI needed every minute of that extra time thanks to US 19, which is a miserable ride from Cranberry almost down to Washington. I had written that Cranberry is an unnatural, unholy pestilence upon western Pennsylvania with high gas prices, until I found out that it's even worse south of Pittsburgh. So I definitely do NOT recommend trying 19 here. Check out Truck 19, maybe.

Not surprising considering it is the most urbanized pieces of 19 in Pennsylvania between those two points.  Truck US 19 isn't much better, especially the McKnight (or McKnight-mare) Road section.

Quote from: Steve on September 29, 2011, 10:35:23 PMThen again, all of 331 west of 231 is rather dubious as a state highway anyway, with no center line and 20-foot width. I had the same feeling about PA 58 between 368 and 338, except add 15 mph curves and a vertical alignment that would even make a horse seasick. This is a good argument to have county roads...

PA 331 sounds a lot like PA 284.  There are two counties in Pennsylvania with county roads, but neither are Washington.

hbelkins

I've seen, I think, four delta route signs still in the wild. One off WV 10, one off WV 49 down near the Kentucky border, one off WV 34 between the Kanawha River and I-77, and one off CR 857 between I-68 and the state line.

I have also seen some of the old delta routes on WV county maps that were not signed at all in the field.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.



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