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Road Trip - Day Three - Southern FL

Started by brianreynolds, January 05, 2013, 10:44:17 PM

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brianreynolds

Up early on Monday morning, back on the road before daylight.  FL-70 west into Highlands County, CR-721 into Glades County and through the Brighton Indian Reservation.  FL-78 and US-27 into Clewiston.  Stopped at McDonalds for breakfast.  The weather up to (and including) this point was unseasonably cool.  Everyone who heard I was from Michigan blamed me for bringing my Michigan winter with me. 

At 8 AM in Clewiston, it was 52°F.  There were two couples who were having breakfast together in the McDonalds, all of them properly dressed for a cold Michigan winter day.  Not only were they bundled up, even inside the restaurant, their coats were buttoned and zipped, as though it was cold inside.  In contrast, I was in a T-shirt, without a jacket.  I'm sure the locals could tell that I was an alien being from a foreign climate.

I was hoping that the US-27 roadway along Lake Okeechobee would offer a pleasant view of the lake, but the intervening levee precluded that.  US-27 south of the lake is not a particularly scenic route.

FL-997 connects US-27 to US-41 by-passing the Miami metro area.  Along this road, there was a motorist whose car had left the roadway (probably at a high rate of speed) and ended up far out into the swamp.  As I was passing, a tow truck (the kind that loads a car fully up off the road onto a platform) was just pulling away, without rescuing the car.  My interpretation is that this tow truck did not have the means to retrieve a car that far out into the swamp.

I have read about the very expensive effort to mitigate the damage to the Everglades.  I was skeptical, but having visited, I am now in favor of the project.  Along US-41, there is some construction in progress to elevate the highway, similar to several highways I have seen in the swamps of Louisiana.   I assume that when the new highway is finished, the old roadbed will be removed as part of the restoration.

My one somewhat standard tourist activity for this trip was a visit to the Shark Valley Visitor Center at Everglades National Park, just off US-41.  The cost to get in was $20, but because of my recent 62nd birthday, the admission fee included a lifetime pass into all National Park facilities.  Wow.  There are not many tangible benefits to old age, but this one is a dandy.  The tram ride was another $20 ($19 for me because of my advanced age).  It takes two full hours, and is absolutely worth the investment of time and money.  The tour guide was very knowledgeable and entertaining.    Big birds and alligators are everywhere.  There is so much to see and do and learn.  Highly recommended.

It was mid-morning when I arrived.  There was no line of traffic at the entrance gate, and no trouble finding parking.  When I left in the early afternoon, it had changed.  There were 8-10 cars lined up at the gate, not many parking spaces left.  On the tram ride, foreign visitors might have outnumbered the US citizens.  There were many Orientals (probably Japanese, but I'm not sure), a large group of Australians, and another bunch from Brazil.  Everyone seemed to enjoy it immensely.
 
Back on the road, a few miles west is the apparent tri-county point of Miami-Dade, Monroe, and Collier counties.  As reported in an earlier thread, on the northeast side of the road is a guard rail with the words "Collier-Dade tri-county corner"  spray-painted on it.  Opposite this is a wide graded area that vehicles can pull off and park.  That is exactly what I did, keeping as far off the traveled road as was practical.  In so doing, I am fairly sure (but lack conclusive proof) that I crossed from Miami-Dade into and through a corner of Monroe and on into Collier.
 
I stopped and parked, got out my magnetic locator, and searched for evidence of the iron pipe in the road that is supposed to mark the actual tri-corner.  I did not find it.  However I did note that a recent paving project in Miami-Dade ends abruptly at the county line as indicated by the spray paint.

Took a few photos, then back on the road westbound.  I stopped at the Big Cypress National Preserve visitor center to enjoy my brown-bag lunch, then on westward.

My pre-planned routing started to unravel.  I had planned to turn north off US-41 to catch un-tolled I-75 at exit 101.  I missed the turn, went on into Naples, and had to double back east to I-75.  An hour or so later, I was supposed to turn north off FL-72 to go through Sandy toward Myakka City.  I missed the turn, went all the way back to I-75 instead.  Tried to correct by taking I-75 to US-301 to FL-62, then back to US-17.  This didn't work well either.  US-301 was completely closed for some emergency at CR-675.  Traffic was diverted east.  I traveled east on CR-675 assuming that I could catch some county road back north to FL-62.  Bad assumption.  CR-675 took me back to FL-64.  It seemed I was going backwards.  Took FL-64 to US-17, completely running out of daylight along the way.  Fueled up in Zolfo Springs.
 
I had originally planned to overnight in Lakeland, or maybe somewhere between there and Tampa.  I was pretty discouraged by my lack of forward progress, decided to look for accommodations in Wauchula.   Inquired at the Best Western, was told that there was a good room available for $100, a better one for $110.  I was assured that there was nothing to offer for $60 or less.  We agreed to disagree.  Re-energized and re-invigorated, I hit the road again, determined to get to Lakeland.

At Lakeland, got the best room of the entire trip for under $50.  Five bucks worth of food from Taco Bell and two cheap beers out of my cooler represented my complete New Year's Eve celebration.  I was asleep before 10:30 PM.  Ya know, I just don't party as hearty as I used to.


tvketchum

I thought the same about Lake Okechobee, but the Army Corps of Engineers turned it into a resevoir back in the 1920's as part of the water supply to Miami and other coastal cities. I did drive up onto the levee at one spot where public access was allowed. You cannot see across the lake to the other shore. Just a high earten wall around the shore as far as one can see.

cpzilliacus

#2
Quote from: brianreynolds on January 05, 2013, 10:44:17 PM
Back on the road, a few miles west is the apparent tri-county point of Miami-Dade, Monroe, and Collier counties.  As reported in an earlier thread, on the northeast side of the road is a guard rail with the words "Collier-Dade tri-county corner"  spray-painted on it.  Opposite this is a wide graded area that vehicles can pull off and park.  That is exactly what I did, keeping as far off the traveled road as was practical.  In so doing, I am fairly sure (but lack conclusive proof) that I crossed from Miami-Dade into and through a corner of Monroe and on into Collier.
 
I stopped and parked, got out my magnetic locator, and searched for evidence of the iron pipe in the road that is supposed to mark the actual tri-corner.  I did not find it.  However I did note that a recent paving project in Miami-Dade ends abruptly at the county line as indicated by the spray paint.

Unlike Google Maps, county boundaries in Mapquest do not disappear as you zoom in to a feature on the map.

According to Mapquest (here), the buildings and the nearby small body of water on the southbound [eastbound] side of U.S. 41 near the tripoint are in Monroe County.  Wonder who those people call if they  need law enforcement or fire/EMS to respond there?  Or does it matter?

Only part of the "wide area" is in Monroe County.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

While watching the football game, looked on the Monroe County Web site to see if they have a geographic information system (GIS) portal, and they do - but I cannot get any of the geography in the northern mainland part of the county to render.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

realjd

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 06, 2013, 02:29:55 PM
While watching the football game, looked on the Monroe County Web site to see if they have a geographic information system (GIS) portal, and they do - but I cannot get any of the geography in the northern mainland part of the county to render.

With no police services, fire services, water, sewer, parks, or county highways, why bother with GIS coverage?

A better bet may be to look at Miami-Dade and Collier GIS.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: realjd on January 06, 2013, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 06, 2013, 02:29:55 PM
While watching the football game, looked on the Monroe County Web site to see if they have a geographic information system (GIS) portal, and they do - but I cannot get any of the geography in the northern mainland part of the county to render.

With no police services, fire services, water, sewer, parks, or county highways, why bother with GIS coverage?

A better bet may be to look at Miami-Dade and Collier GIS.

Since there is apparently some population along the Loop Road in Monroe County (and perhaps adjacent to U.S. 41 near the tri-point), I would assume that the people living there are paying property taxes, and thus the parcels they live on should be there in the GIS - and those citizens are entitled to county services (in particular law enforcement, fire/EMS and education), even if Monroe County has to contract with Miami-Dade or Collier County to provide them.

I don't have a clue as to how such matters are handled in Florida, but in Maryland, Virginia and D.C. the County (or county-equivilant) GIS have all lands within their boundaries mapped out and even zoned.  Even lands that belong to agencies of the federal government. 

Counties are not as large in land area as Florida, but some of them have pretty large federal reservations within them.  Prince George's County, Maryland has a huge amount of federal land within it (by the standards of an East Coast metropolitan county) in the form of the Beltsville Agricultural Research Center, the U.S. Secret Service Academy, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center and Andrews Air Force Base, in addition to a fair amount of National Park Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service property.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

roadman65

Sounds like you had your shares of detours.  Yeah Lake Okeechobee is a dissappointment  with the Hoover Dike around it.  When I went up on the levee, it was red tide!  Do not ask me how a red tide happened here when its usually a phenomen that happens in Salt Water like the Gulf.  It smelled of dead fish galore.

As far as people bundled up, that is strange.  Many Floridians like to refuse its cold outside and wear shorts even in 40 degree weather.  Where I work the delivery drivers have the option to wear shorts and many do dress the same in 100 degree weather as 35 degree weather.  Some will even bundle up on top, wear hat and gloves, and have on short pants.  Figure that one out!   I even see people not only worship in shorts, but pastors are not saying anything to employees of the church for not wearing long pants and nice Sunday Clothes as they are to set the example for the lay worshipers.  Anyway, do not want to go there, but shorts now are political and not something to wear in the hot Summer months anymore.   Some tourists wear winter clothes despite it is still warmer in the Sunshine State, yet many of us locals with "thin blood" are dressed in tank tops and shorts while this is happening.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

realjd

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 06, 2013, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: realjd on January 06, 2013, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 06, 2013, 02:29:55 PM
While watching the football game, looked on the Monroe County Web site to see if they have a geographic information system (GIS) portal, and they do - but I cannot get any of the geography in the northern mainland part of the county to render.

With no police services, fire services, water, sewer, parks, or county highways, why bother with GIS coverage?

A better bet may be to look at Miami-Dade and Collier GIS.

Since there is apparently some population along the Loop Road in Monroe County (and perhaps adjacent to U.S. 41 near the tri-point), I would assume that the people living there are paying property taxes, and thus the parcels they live on should be there in the GIS - and those citizens are entitled to county services (in particular law enforcement, fire/EMS and education), even if Monroe County has to contract with Miami-Dade or Collier County to provide them.

I don't have a clue as to how such matters are handled in Florida, but in Maryland, Virginia and D.C. the County (or county-equivilant) GIS have all lands within their boundaries mapped out and even zoned.  Even lands that belong to agencies of the federal government. 

Counties are not as large in land area as Florida, but some of them have pretty large federal reservations within them.  Prince George's County, Maryland has a huge amount of federal land within it (by the standards of an East Coast metropolitan county) in the form of the Beltsville Agricultural Research Center, the U.S. Secret Service Academy, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center and Andrews Air Force Base, in addition to a fair amount of National Park Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service property.

My understanding about the people living on Loop Road is that the lack of services (police in particular) is the whole point of living on Loop Road...

Quote from: roadman65 on January 06, 2013, 08:27:21 PM
Sounds like you had your shares of detours.  Yeah Lake Okeechobee is a dissappointment  with the Hoover Dike around it.  When I went up on the levee, it was red tide!  Do not ask me how a red tide happened here when its usually a phenomen that happens in Salt Water like the Gulf.  It smelled of dead fish galore.

As far as people bundled up, that is strange.  Many Floridians like to refuse its cold outside and wear shorts even in 40 degree weather.  Where I work the delivery drivers have the option to wear shorts and many do dress the same in 100 degree weather as 35 degree weather.  Some will even bundle up on top, wear hat and gloves, and have on short pants.  Figure that one out!   I even see people not only worship in shorts, but pastors are not saying anything to employees of the church for not wearing long pants and nice Sunday Clothes as they are to set the example for the lay worshipers.  Anyway, do not want to go there, but shorts now are political and not something to wear in the hot Summer months anymore.   Some tourists wear winter clothes despite it is still warmer in the Sunshine State, yet many of us locals with "thin blood" are dressed in tank tops and shorts while this is happening.

That's not what I've noticed. Around here, once the temperature drops below 65 the winter clothes come out. The only people not wearing coats when it's in the 50's are the Canadian tourists. It must be different in Orlando.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: realjd on January 06, 2013, 11:45:03 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 06, 2013, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: realjd on January 06, 2013, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 06, 2013, 02:29:55 PM
While watching the football game, looked on the Monroe County Web site to see if they have a geographic information system (GIS) portal, and they do - but I cannot get any of the geography in the northern mainland part of the county to render.

With no police services, fire services, water, sewer, parks, or county highways, why bother with GIS coverage?

A better bet may be to look at Miami-Dade and Collier GIS.

Since there is apparently some population along the Loop Road in Monroe County (and perhaps adjacent to U.S. 41 near the tri-point), I would assume that the people living there are paying property taxes, and thus the parcels they live on should be there in the GIS - and those citizens are entitled to county services (in particular law enforcement, fire/EMS and education), even if Monroe County has to contract with Miami-Dade or Collier County to provide them.

I don't have a clue as to how such matters are handled in Florida, but in Maryland, Virginia and D.C. the County (or county-equivilant) GIS have all lands within their boundaries mapped out and even zoned.  Even lands that belong to agencies of the federal government. 

Counties are not as large in land area as Florida, but some of them have pretty large federal reservations within them.  Prince George's County, Maryland has a huge amount of federal land within it (by the standards of an East Coast metropolitan county) in the form of the Beltsville Agricultural Research Center, the U.S. Secret Service Academy, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center and Andrews Air Force Base, in addition to a fair amount of National Park Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service property.

My understanding about the people living on Loop Road is that the lack of services (police in particular) is the whole point of living on Loop Road...

I don't doubt that - at all. 

I was looking at this from a bureaucratic perspective.  Regardless of the desires of the people choosing to reside along the Loop Road, I still think that Monroe County needs to have their parcels in the county GIS. 

From reading a little more online about it, it seems to me that there is probably quite a lot of federal government law enforcement (in other words, National Park Service) and Native American police force around there, so perhaps they are the de facto first responders?

The Loop Road is definitely on my list of sights to see the next time I make it to South Florida.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

#9
Quote from: brianreynolds on January 05, 2013, 10:44:17 PM
Back on the road, a few miles west is the apparent tri-county point of Miami-Dade, Monroe, and Collier counties.  As reported in an earlier thread, on the northeast side of the road is a guard rail with the words "Collier-Dade tri-county corner"  spray-painted on it.  Opposite this is a wide graded area that vehicles can pull off and park.  That is exactly what I did, keeping as far off the traveled road as was practical.  In so doing, I am fairly sure (but lack conclusive proof) that I crossed from Miami-Dade into and through a corner of Monroe and on into Collier.

Did a little more looking online.  Apparently the Monroe County GIS portal does not go that far north, but the there is a different GIS portal for property taxes and the like, and it does.

The URL is http://gis.mcpafl.org/monroe

According to those GIS data, the tri-point is north (east) of U.S. 41, so all of the highway is (for a short distance) in Monroe County (though your mileage may vary, and it is possible that the GIS layers are not entirely correctly "rubber sheeted" or registered with each other).  Because these data are parcel-level (and thus connected to property tax revenue), I would think they are accurate, though it is curious that there is no right-of-way shown (at least not in Monroe County) for U.S. 41 itself.

See the image below, which is a screenshot from the link above:



EDIT:  Added mileage disclaimer.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

formulanone

#10
Quote from: brianreynolds on January 05, 2013, 10:44:17 PM
At 8 AM in Clewiston, it was 52°F.  There were two couples who were having breakfast together in the McDonalds, all of them properly dressed for a cold Michigan winter day.  Not only were they bundled up, even inside the restaurant, their coats were buttoned and zipped, as though it was cold inside.  In contrast, I was in a T-shirt, without a jacket.  I'm sure the locals could tell that I was an alien being from a foreign climate.

Good to know it's not just a South Florida thing...although to me, 45-50° is the tipping point between choosing warm-weather clothing and "cold-weather" clothing. If it's 45, it won't get much warmer, but 50 means it will likely warm up a lot more. But then again, I'll wear shorts and T-shirts on any day starting out at 55-60...

QuoteI was hoping that the US-27 roadway along Lake Okeechobee would offer a pleasant view of the lake, but the intervening levee precluded that.  US-27 south of the lake is not a particularly scenic route.

Canal Point or Pahokee offer decent views of the lake at their boat ramps. You can easily sit on the levee and have a picnic lunch and enjoy a look at the lake. It's still not as scenic as you might think:



QuoteI was asleep before 10:30 PM.  Ya know, I just don't party as hearty as I used to.

Same here, although driving about knackers me out more than I was young; having kids around, even when on vacation, meant I was out by 9:30pm, and I didn't even drink.



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