New Jersey Turnpike

[02 Park Ave]

I would see that the I-95 sector of the Tpk would have its own mile markers/mileage based exit numbers.  Likewise, the Newark Bay Extension would have I-78 based mms and exit numbers. The Tpk south of Exit 6 could stay as is for it would not be part of the Interstate system.

[jeffandnicole]

As most of the toll takers' attitudes are a bit, um, unpleasant, I think most would be saying something else before the 'you' other than 'God Bless'.

[bzakharin]

I would see that the I-95 sector of the Tpk would have its own mile markers/mileage based exit numbers.  Likewise, the Newark Bay Extension would have I-78 based mms and exit numbers. The Tpk south of Exit 6 could stay as is for it would not be part of the Interstate system.

Thee only place I know that does it this way is the Pennsylvania Turnpike Northeast Extension which continues free I-476's mileage and exit numbers. The mainline does not do that for I-70 or I-276 (arguably I-70 should be the primary route where it overlaps with I-76). Do other examples of this type of setup exist anywhere?

[vdeane]

I would envision the numbers based on I-95 for the mainline, the Turnpike south of exit 6, I-78 for that extension, and the current northern I-95 numbers changed to match the new ones.  The Port Authority would renumber, but they might hold it to the next sign replacement.  I don't think NJDOT will have any part of I-95 once the PTC interchange is done.

[Zeffy]

I would envision the numbers based on I-95 for the mainline, the Turnpike south of exit 6, I-78 for that extension, and the current northern I-95 numbers changed to match the new ones.  The Port Authority would renumber, but they might hold it to the next sign replacement.  I don't think NJDOT will have any part of I-95 once the PTC interchange is done.

Seeing as how the old I-95 north of Trenton will become I-195, and the rest of I-95 is owned by the NJTA, yeah, that's probably accurate.

Here's my question though - do more people refer to this as the Turnpike or (I-)95? I would think everyone calls this the Turnpike, even when the Turnpike is signed as I-95. I would think it would make more sense just to start the mileage from the beginning of the Turnpike in Deepwater and end it at the end of the Turnpike at the GWB. When it comes to the spurs, I actually am unsure what to do about those. Same for the split in Newark - they are currently signed as EXIT XXE or XXW - would that change if mileage based numbers are adopted?

[Brandon]

I would see that the I-95 sector of the Tpk would have its own mile markers/mileage based exit numbers.  Likewise, the Newark Bay Extension would have I-78 based mms and exit numbers. The Tpk south of Exit 6 could stay as is for it would not be part of the Interstate system.

Thee only place I know that does it this way is the Pennsylvania Turnpike Northeast Extension which continues free I-476's mileage and exit numbers. The mainline does not do that for I-70 or I-276 (arguably I-70 should be the primary route where it overlaps with I-76). Do other examples of this type of setup exist anywhere?

The East-West Tollway in Illinois continues free I-88's mileage and exit numbering.
The Northwest Tollway now does the same thing for I-90.
Then there's the Tri-State Tollway which ISTHA has split between its I-94 and I-294 sections.

[roadman65]

If the NJTA follows I-95's mileage to the tee, then it will for sure confuse all of NJ Drivers.  We have always called it the Turnpike even where I-95 is cosigned with it.

So why not just leave as is for that sake and still go with mile posts of the NJT even on free I-95?  With I-78 I think it should be with I-78's free mileage as its only 8 miles long and it could be arranged where duplicate exit numbers could be altered to avoid redundancy on the closed system.

[jeffandnicole]

Here's my question though - do more people refer to this as the Turnpike or (I-)95? I would think everyone calls this the Turnpike, even when the Turnpike is signed as I-95.

Overall, I think more people call it the Turnpike.  BUT...if you're coming up from Delaware, you are specifically looking for signs for the Turnpike if you want to continue north towards NYC.  If you're coming down from NYC, many people are following signs for I-95.  It's not a big deal until they got down to Interchange 1...and wanted to know how far to Philadelphia.  When told they past it a half-hour ago, they wondered how they could have already passed it, and aren't they still on 95.  It was a bit easier to explain that Interchanges 4 & 3 were signed for Philly, compared to how 95 just kinda disappeared from the Turnpike. 

Many knew they had to get back to I-95 to continue south to Baltimore - that was fairly easy as well. My standard answer was 95 is 6 miles away (7 after the new Int. 1 plaza was built), and after you cross into Delaware, you will see the signs for 95 South.

[roadman65]

Many people do call it The Turnpike just as the GSP is The Parkway. 

You can not get rid of ignorance as it happens for every type of thinker.  Some people in NJ think that I-95 is the entire turnpike while, like you said, the long distance visitors also think of it that way and get confused at Exit 1 for lack of shields there getting you back.

[Zeffy]

Here's my question though - do more people refer to this as the Turnpike or (I-)95? I would think everyone calls this the Turnpike, even when the Turnpike is signed as I-95.

Overall, I think more people call it the Turnpike.  BUT...if you're coming up from Delaware, you are specifically looking for signs for the Turnpike if you want to continue north towards NYC.  If you're coming down from NYC, many people are following signs for I-95.  It's not a big deal until they got down to Interchange 1...and wanted to know how far to Philadelphia.  When told they past it a half-hour ago, they wondered how they could have already passed it, and aren't they still on 95.  It was a bit easier to explain that Interchanges 4 & 3 were signed for Philly, compared to how 95 just kinda disappeared from the Turnpike. 

Many knew they had to get back to I-95 to continue south to Baltimore - that was fairly easy as well. My standard answer was 95 is 6 miles away (7 after the new Int. 1 plaza was built), and after you cross into Delaware, you will see the signs for 95 South.

Exactly. What a clusterfuck. The current situation is nothing but one. When the PA Turnpike and I-95 interchange in Bristol is completed, I wonder if people will take that looking for Philadelphia instead of using Exits 3 and 4 to get to I-76? Philadelphia will most definitely be signed as such on the Exit 6 guide signs. Do they have any supplementary signage near Exit 4 saying something along the lines of 'PHILADELPHIA - USE EXITS 3,4" (and vice versa)? As it currently stands, I would probably use NJ 73 to NJ 90 to the Betsy Ross Bridge if I were coming from the Turnpike (which I usually don't) to get to Philadelphia. Much better option IMO than riding NJ 168 up until it ends in Camden and then taking the surface streets all the way to I-676. Better scenery too - it doesn't look too pleasant riding through that area of Camden as opposed to avoiding it all together by using NJ 90.

[Brandon]

If the NJTA follows I-95's mileage to the tee, then it will for sure confuse all of NJ Drivers.  We have always called it the Turnpike even where I-95 is cosigned with it.

I highly doubt that will confuse drivers at all.  The Tri-State Tollway is split between I-94 and I-294 and uses the mileposts of each, yet the average Chicagoland driver is not confused at all.  We still call it the Tri-State Tollway from end to end.  It may help that no one uses the exit numbers on them (they lacked them for years) and just uses the interchange names (which coincidentally happen to be that of the street they interchange with).

[jeffandnicole]

Here's my question though - do more people refer to this as the Turnpike or (I-)95? I would think everyone calls this the Turnpike, even when the Turnpike is signed as I-95.

Overall, I think more people call it the Turnpike.  BUT...if you're coming up from Delaware, you are specifically looking for signs for the Turnpike if you want to continue north towards NYC.  If you're coming down from NYC, many people are following signs for I-95.  It's not a big deal until they got down to Interchange 1...and wanted to know how far to Philadelphia.  When told they past it a half-hour ago, they wondered how they could have already passed it, and aren't they still on 95.  It was a bit easier to explain that Interchanges 4 & 3 were signed for Philly, compared to how 95 just kinda disappeared from the Turnpike. 

Many knew they had to get back to I-95 to continue south to Baltimore - that was fairly easy as well. My standard answer was 95 is 6 miles away (7 after the new Int. 1 plaza was built), and after you cross into Delaware, you will see the signs for 95 South.

Exactly. What a clusterfuck. The current situation is nothing but one. When the PA Turnpike and I-95 interchange in Bristol is completed, I wonder if people will take that looking for Philadelphia instead of using Exits 3 and 4 to get to I-76? Philadelphia will most definitely be signed as such on the Exit 6 guide signs. Do they have any supplementary signage near Exit 4 saying something along the lines of 'PHILADELPHIA - USE EXITS 3,4" (and vice versa)? As it currently stands, I would probably use NJ 73 to NJ 90 to the Betsy Ross Bridge if I were coming from the Turnpike (which I usually don't) to get to Philadelphia. Much better option IMO than riding NJ 168 up until it ends in Camden and then taking the surface streets all the way to I-676. Better scenery too - it doesn't look too pleasant riding through that area of Camden as opposed to avoiding it all together by using NJ 90.

I don't think it'll be that bad. 

Yes, Exit 6 will be signed I-95 South & I-276 West, and will include Philadelphia on the signage.  I would imagine that would become the primary method to get to Philly because it will be signed very well.  But as I've mentioned in the past (and based on the lack of comments to it I think you all don't believe me), 95 is already at or over capacity at multiple times throughout the day in PA.  It won't be able to handle the load of traffic from those intending on following 95 from North Jersey thru Philly & Chester and down into Delaware.

Currently, Exit 4 has a supplemental sign below the two main destinations for Philadelphia (presumably, this sup BGS plate will be removed after the 95 interchange in PA is complete, although it doesn't necessarily have to be removed). 

The Philadelphia destination from Exit 3 had already been removed completely when the signage was updated and they had to come up with 2 destinations for each exit (compared to previous signage, when up to 4 destinations were listed). 

Overall, if your headed to Philly from Exit 4, it's a coin toss between taking 73 to 295 South to 76/676 (Walt/Ben), or by going the route you mentioned (73 to 90 to 95 South).  Depends where you want to go in Philly.

From Exit 3, it would generally make more sense to take 168 North to 295 South to 76/676, but staying on 168 would give you direct access to 76 & the Walt as well, or go can go further north, pick up US 130 North and take US 30 West to the Ben (yeah, I wouldn't exactly recommend 168 beyond 130 into Camden). 

But regardless, there are plenty of options from Exits 4 & 3.  Personally, picking up 295 then 76 would be my primary option, but it really depends on one's final destination and time of day as to what's the best route.

[bzakharin]

Exactly. What a clusterfuck. The current situation is nothing but one. When the PA Turnpike and I-95 interchange in Bristol is completed, I wonder if people will take that looking for Philadelphia instead of using Exits 3 and 4 to get to I-76? Philadelphia will most definitely be signed as such on the Exit 6 guide signs. Do they have any supplementary signage near Exit 4 saying something along the lines of 'PHILADELPHIA - USE EXITS 3,4" (and vice versa)? As it currently stands, I would probably use NJ 73 to NJ 90 to the Betsy Ross Bridge if I were coming from the Turnpike (which I usually don't) to get to Philadelphia. Much better option IMO than riding NJ 168 up until it ends in Camden and then taking the surface streets all the way to I-676. Better scenery too - it doesn't look too pleasant riding through that area of Camden as opposed to avoiding it all together by using NJ 90.

It's sort of the flipside of what the situation with Atlantic City. As it stands, Exit 3 is signed for "Atlantic City Exp" in both directions, while the US-40 exit is signed "Atlantic City" from the south (as it should be). It's not at all obvious that the best way to get to Atlantic City coming from the north (south of the GS Parkway, anyway) is actually Exit 4 for NJ-73 South. In fact, Atlantic City is present as a control city for NJ-73 South once you leave the mainline at Exit 4.

I highly doubt that will confuse drivers at all.  The Tri-State Tollway is split between I-94 and I-294 and uses the mileposts of each, yet the average Chicagoland driver is not confused at all.  We still call it the Tri-State Tollway from end to end.  It may help that no one uses the exit numbers on them (they lacked them for years) and just uses the interchange names (which coincidentally happen to be that of the street they interchange with).

That is exactly the problem. The "what exit?" stereotype is one that has a lot of truth to it in NJ. For this reason, any exit renumbering along the Turnpike will be very very confusing for a lot of people.

[roadman65]

Then why not change the Kansas Turnpike to fout different set of numbers as well.

I-35, I-335, I-470, and I-70

[cpzilliacus]

Then why not change the Kansas Turnpike to fout different set of numbers as well.

I-35, I-335, I-470, and I-70

Taking I-70 west from Kansas City, Missouri, the first milepost I saw was one by Kansas DOT, indicating it was about 412 miles to the Colorado line. 

Suddenly, the mileposts  were down in the 200's, but I quickly figured out it was because I-70 had entered Kansas Turnpike Authority maintenance (which extends some miles from the easternmost tolled section).

After exiting the Kansas Turnpike near Topeka, the I-70 mileposts were "normal" again, and resumed their (long) count-down to Colorado.

[roadman65]

Should not named toll roads be like a separate route anyway?

Look at I-75 and I-85 in Atlanta for instance.  I-85 has to sacrifice its exit numbers while concurrent with I-75 because of obvious reasons.  Why can't NJ sacrifice I-95 for the NJ Turnpike the same way?

Others need I mind you is I-29 in MO that is actually shorter than it really is due to the concurrency of I-35 in KC.
I-64 in Lexington, KY gives up its numbering for I-75.  Then speaking of I-75 does it not sacrifice its numbers in Tennessee for I-275 and I-40?

The exit numbering following route numbers cannot be perfect.

[KEVIN_224]

All I know about Philadelphia and the New Jersey Turnpike is this:

Nearly every time, Greyhound and Peter Pan bus drivers will take Exit 4 (NJ Route 73) in Mount Laurel, whether they stop at the terminal on Fellowship Road or not. I highly doubt this will change once the interchange on the PA side opens. From NJ Route 73, the driver seems to take one of two routes:

1- To NJ Route 90 West in Cinnaminson, then Betsy Ross Bridge to I-95 South or
2- To NJ Route 38 West in Maple Shade, then US Route 30 West in Pennsauken/Camden to the Ben Franklin Bridge.

Either way, they're heading to the Center City bus terminal at 10th and Filbert Streets.

[jeffandnicole]

The Philadelphia destination from Exit 3 had already been removed completely when the signage was updated and they had to come up with 2 destinations for each exit (compared to previous signage, when up to 4 destinations were listed). 

Since I took this exit last night and actually paid attention, here's what the signage says approaching and exiting at Interchange 3:

2 miles ahead:  Camden / Woodbury
1 mile ahead:  Camden / Atlantic City Exp
At Exit: Camden / Atlantic City Exp

Beyond tolls:
  168 South:  Woodbury / Atlantic City
  168 North:  Camden / Philadelphia

So when it's all said and done:

  3 Destination "Cities" on the approaching BGSs (1 of them not being a city)
  4 Destination cities on the 168 North/South BGS, with 1 of them (Philadelphia) never appearing on the approaching BGSs, and 1 of them only saying Atlantic City, not Atlantic City Exp

[BrianP]

168 South:  Woodbury / Atlantic City

Woodbury?  The best way to get to Woodbury from there is to take NJ 168 north to I-295 south to NJ 45 south.  A correct control city for that spot would either be Blackwood or Turnersville where NJ 168 ends.

[jeffandnicole]

I'd argue the best way to get to the AC Expressway (and Turnersville...and Blackwood) is to take 168 North to Benigno Blvd or 295 South.  168 South is more direct, but lower speed limits, lots of lights, and a tight accel lane onto 42 South.

[Brandon]

I'd argue the best way to get to the AC Expressway (and Turnersville...and Blackwood) is to take 168 North to Benigno Blvd or 295 South.  168 South is more direct, but lower speed limits, lots of lights, and a tight accel lane onto 42 South.

And given how close I-295 is to the NJTP along NJ-168 at that point, it's sort of a Breezewood between the ACE/I-76 and the NJTP.  It's really not as bad as some I could name, after having taken it back on 9/22.

[odditude]

But as I've mentioned in the past (and based on the lack of comments to it I think you all don't believe me), 95 is already at or over capacity at multiple times throughout the day in PA.  It won't be able to handle the load of traffic from those intending on following 95 from North Jersey thru Philly & Chester and down into Delaware.

seconded for overcapacity in Chester, especially during rush hour.

my commute (from NJ to Center City on 95) sucks enough as it is, especially with the added chaos right now from the 95revive project between Cottman and the Vine.

[J Route Z]

I always felt that "Woodbury" was not the best destination for the exit 3 guide signs. Blackwood, Turnersville, or even Runnemede would be better options, where the exit travels through Runnemede. Just like the exit 4 signage was updated a few years ago by replacing "Philadelphia" with "Mount Laurel", and they left "Philadelphia" on a supplemental sign plaque. We lived off of exit 4 so I would hate seeing the signs read Camden and Philadelphia. Beyond the tolls, the destinations for Route 73 south are Berlin and Atlantic City while north is Camden/Philadelphia. They could have added Marlton or Folsom to the mix. I wonder why they removed Westampton and Willingboro from exit 5 signs?

[storm2k]

Drove up the Turnpike last night and I noticed that they replaced the sign for 13A. They put it up on one of the new LED VMS gantries. The thing that surprised me that is that they used the older NJTA style signage instead of newer MUTCD style. Was this a mistake on the part of the contractor putting up the gantries and signs? I figured they would just replace that sign with a MUTCD sign since that will be happening on the Turnpike at some point soon.

[Alps]

Drove up the Turnpike last night and I noticed that they replaced the sign for 13A. They put it up on one of the new LED VMS gantries. The thing that surprised me that is that they used the older NJTA style signage instead of newer MUTCD style. Was this a mistake on the part of the contractor putting up the gantries and signs? I figured they would just replace that sign with a MUTCD sign since that will be happening on the Turnpike at some point soon.

Any contract that had already been let before the conversion, they haven't touched.