New Jersey Turnpike

[Alps]

I was considering bidding on an arrow board, but I'd have to figure out how to transport it. 4'x8' doesn't fit in most vehicles and it may be trailer mounted, but you need to be able to tow.

[storm2k]

Not that I'm complaining, but when did the Turnpike Authority decide to start using "Philadelphia" as a SB control city on some of the mainline signs? And how much of the SB control city signage will change in the next couple of years?

When the 95 missing link opened, since that's where 95 goes. South of Exit 6, it's still Camden and then Wilmington.

[mrsman]

No, there would not need to be multiple decisions as you feared.
If the NJTP had it so it was 3+3 until exit then 3+3+3+3, this is how it would be:

NB from the south:
-3 lanes, then exit lanes for exit 6, then before PATP merges the NB would already be 2+2 with the the 3rd lane being added from exit 6 to each of the roadways.

Which creates the situation where NB would go from 3 lanes to 2 lanes if a roadway was closed, inducing congestion.

Or, in your preferred situation if the roadway between Interchanges 4 - 6 was widened to 4 lanes in each direction, if a roadway was closed NB traffic would be forced to go from 4 lanes to 2 lanes prior to the entry ramp from Interchange 6.

How do you figure either??????

I don't.  The Turnpike does.  The NJTA used the 8A-9 congestion often seen when only 2 lanes were open as justification to be able to maintain at least 3 lanes at all times when possible.  Their studies showed only 5 lanes per direction would be needed between Exit 6 & Exit 7A, but that would create the situations seen between 8A and 9.  So they maintained the 3-3-3-3 roadway system, and gradually added/decreased lanes south of Exit 6 to prevent a 2 lane situation.

So the reason the NJTP splits from 3-3 to 3-3-3-3 south of exit 6 is to space out the decision to be in the car or car/truck and exit 6?
I don't know, first, normally on highways, they expand or reduce the number of lanes/split coincident with a major exit, not a few miles beforehand.

This ignore that, normally on highways, there would simply be a 6-6 width, not a 3-3-3-3 width. 

The NJ Turnpike does a great job seeing what's normally done, what does and doesn't work, and optimizes what can be done.  In this case, there's a lot of swerving and congestion that occurs at a major exit with a lane reduction.

Second, exit 6 NB is not a much exit.  Very few motorists going NB take exit 6, since it only goes WB.
Exit 6 overwhelming handles incoming traffic entering the TP to go up north and exiting traffic getting off SB.
So this of all exits would seem to not need decision points being separated.

It's still a decision point.

While a little late to the discussion, and not wishing to start up any flame war, I would add that any concerns about the design being too much would be before th project was completed.  is it more expensive or environmentally damaging than necessary?  Probably for most traffic projections, the widening between 6 and 8A would be sufficient as a 5-5 (not a 2-3-3-2), but fortunately NJTP happily decided to design for the future and went with the bigger design keeping the 3-3-3-3 layout all the way to a point south of exit 6.  And it is very nice as anybody who travels the stretch knows that so many of the old traffic problems of the past are now a part of history.

Further widening southward has to be met with some caution.  We can't keep a 3-3-3-3 layout all the way to the end, because we have to somehow incorporate the eventual merger of 295 traffic and US 40 traffic into the mainline before the Delaware Memorial Bridge which is only 4 lanes in each direction.  So the very southern end of the NJTP will probably never be widened unless the bridge is expanded.

[Ted$8roadFan]

I think 6 lanes from the Delaware Memorial Bridge to Exit 4 should be enough (and will be difficult enough to accomplish).

[Dough4872]

I think 6 lanes from the Delaware Memorial Bridge to Exit 4 should be enough (and will be difficult enough to accomplish).

Yeah that should be enough considering I-295 is closely parallel through South Jersey and traffic would rather use the latter anyway since it's toll-free.

[jeffandnicole]

I think 6 lanes from the Delaware Memorial Bridge to Exit 4 should be enough (and will be difficult enough to accomplish).

I think overall it won't be too tough. The Turnpike already has most of the right-of-way needed.  They'll need to rebuild dozens of bridges (many of which are in need of replacing anyway) and put up sound barriers.  However, expanding beyond that would be difficult.  Unlike up north where they basically prepared for 12 lanes, the Turnpike down south may be able to squeeze in 8 lanes total in some distant future life, but they're not getting beyond that without major property, house and building acquisitions.

Yeah that should be enough considering I-295 is closely parallel through South Jersey and traffic would rather use the latter anyway since it's toll-free.

You would think...except the Turnpike between 1 & 4 has congestion issues especially on summer weekends and holidays, whereas 295 doesn't.

Motorists like using the Turnpike.  Most of them pay no mind to the free highway right next to it. Even coming off the Delaware Memeorial Bridge - they merge left to get on the Turnpike.

[RoadRage2023]

I think the reason for that might be because I-295 only goes part of the way up before veering off into PA. Much of the Jersey Turnpike traffic is long distance between NYC and points south. Maybe they don't want to waste time connecting via surface roads. Although I did that once taking the turnpike to exit 4 or something and then switched to 295 to save a little on the toll. Connecting via I-195 is a little too out of the way but not out of the question. You also have to deal with that awkward I-76 interchange along the way on 295 unlike the turnpike.

[SignBridge]

I've found Exit-4 is a good transfer point to go between the Turnpike and I-295. About a half mile on a main road between them.

[RoadRage2023]

Yes it's convenient. The roads come so close together I wonder why they don't just build direct ramps between them.

[1995hoo]

Exit 7 is a good spot to connect as well, although the combination of truck stops and a two-lane segment are not ideal for safe speeders.

[Alps]

I've found Exit-4 is a good transfer point to go between the Turnpike and I-295. About a half mile on a main road between them.

Not during peak periods it's not.

[ilpt4u]

Yes it's convenient. The roads come so close together I wonder why they don't just build direct ramps between them.

The logical spot would be at exit 6 where I-95/Ext crosses I-295

Granted, that I-95 routing is fairly new, but that has to be on a short list where a Parent 2di and Child 3di cross with no direct connection. Of course when both roads were built I-95 was not planned to be in the area

[RoadRage2023]

I was thinking more at the point where the roads come within 100-150 feet of each other. Maybe there could be some sort of connection. Such as near mount Laurel road where you can see the other road through the treeline.

[Ted$8roadFan]

Yes it's convenient. The roads come so close together I wonder why they don't just build direct ramps between them.

Probably b/c the NJTP Authority doesn't want to lose any revenue.

[roadman65]

Did the NJTA ever build that road between Carteret and Linden as they had on their plans or did it get scrapped like Route 92 in South Brunswick?

It was supposed to allow truck access to Trembley Point from Exit 12 to avoid going through the streets of Linden as trucks have for decades.

[bzakharin]

Yes it's convenient. The roads come so close together I wonder why they don't just build direct ramps between them.

The logical spot would be at exit 6 where I-95/Ext crosses I-295

Granted, that I-95 routing is fairly new, but that has to be on a short list where a Parent 2di and Child 3di cross with no direct connection. Of course when both roads were built I-95 was not planned to be in the area

It's not just because it's I-95. It would be the best way to get to the PA turnpike from southern NJ. I've used "Exit 6a" for this purpose on occasion.

[Alps]

Did the NJTA ever build that road between Carteret and Linden as they had on their plans or did it get scrapped like Route 92 in South Brunswick?

It was supposed to allow truck access to Trembley Point from Exit 12 to avoid going through the streets of Linden as trucks have for decades.

maps.google.com

[odditude]

out of curiosity - from an engineering perspective, if a hypothetical interchange between 295 and 95 was built:

would the ramps going to 95 NB / Turnpike mainline need to be divided due to the relatively short distance to the mainline NB/SB split (in a similar manner to how the ramps from DE 1 NB to 95 NB are divided), assuming that they were intended to serve both 95/Turnpike NB and Turnpike SB (as opposed to neglecting access to the Turnpike SB)?

[The Ghostbuster]

Where exactly would one put this hypothetical interchange? After the US 130 interchange on Interstate 295, and the US 206 interchange on Interstate 95/NJT, the two roadways become too far apart for a freeway-to-tollway interchange to be practical. Ditto south of the Essex Rd. interchange on Interstate 295. One might as well utilize the existing interchanges to make such a connection.

[SteveG1988]

Where exactly would one put this hypothetical interchange? After the US 130 interchange on Interstate 295, and the US 206 interchange on Interstate 95/NJT, the two roadways become too far apart for a freeway-to-tollway interchange to be practical. Ditto south of the Essex Rd. interchange on Interstate 295. One might as well utilize the existing interchanges to make such a connection.

Improvements to the connection at exit 5 would honestly be the best bet. optimize the traffic lights a bit better, fix the merge/decel lanes on the 295 cloverleaf. The bordentown exits for 295 could have been made a lot better, but that will be harder to fix.

[NJRoadfan]

If they were considering connecting I-295 where it crosses the PA Extension, they'd only really need two ramps. I-295N to I95N and I95S to I295S. The traffic patterns at Exit 7 (I-295 Exit 56) and Exit 4 likely confirm this. The other connections can be done via Exit 6A if crossing to/from PA. From a regional perspective, I can't imagine too many people doing any of the other connections.

[odditude]

Where exactly would one put this hypothetical interchange? After the US 130 interchange on Interstate 295, and the US 206 interchange on Interstate 95/NJT, the two roadways become too far apart for a freeway-to-tollway interchange to be practical. Ditto south of the Essex Rd. interchange on Interstate 295. One might as well utilize the existing interchanges to make such a connection.

i'm specifically speaking of where 295 passes over 95 / the PA extension of the Turnpike.

and "hypothetically" because even if it wasn't incredibly cramped, ROW acquisition would be a bit complicated.

[Alps]

Where exactly would one put this hypothetical interchange? After the US 130 interchange on Interstate 295, and the US 206 interchange on Interstate 95/NJT, the two roadways become too far apart for a freeway-to-tollway interchange to be practical. Ditto south of the Essex Rd. interchange on Interstate 295. One might as well utilize the existing interchanges to make such a connection.

It's not hypothetical, but I will wait until they publish material related to it and point you there. You're on track with "too far apart".

[TheDon102]

Where exactly would one put this hypothetical interchange? After the US 130 interchange on Interstate 295, and the US 206 interchange on Interstate 95/NJT, the two roadways become too far apart for a freeway-to-tollway interchange to be practical. Ditto south of the Essex Rd. interchange on Interstate 295. One might as well utilize the existing interchanges to make such a connection.

It's not hypothetical, but I will wait until they publish material related to it and point you there. You're on track with "too far apart".

So its in the works... 

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/QnbkVi6SotySsbv26
What does NSX stand for on the mileposts?