Seems like there are finally some serious steps, as design funds are being voted upon.
https://www.masslive.com/capecod/2019/06/5-million-approved-by-house-for-project-to-replace-outdated-sagamore-bourne-bridges-on-cape-cod.html
I'm ambivalent. These are among the most beautiful bridges in Massachusetts, and I love driving over them. But the possibilities opened by starting anew are intriguing.
Build the tunnel. :D
Could this mean that there may be a Cape Cod Canal Bridges/Tunnels Meet in the distant future?
Quote from: kevinb1994 on June 27, 2019, 04:00:50 PM
Could this mean that there may be a Cape Cod Canal Bridges/Tunnels Meet in the distant future?
Down, boy. 🐶
Wish it would include a limited access US 6 bypass between MA 25 and MA 3.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 27, 2019, 09:26:33 AM
I'm ambivalent. These are among the most beautiful bridges in Massachusetts, and I love driving over them. But the possibilities opened by starting anew are intriguing.
The problem is that when they were built, they connected to surface streets (via rotaries) on all ends with far lower traffic needs. Now, 3 of those 4 ends connect directly to freeways (the rotary on the south end of the Bourne is the last original rotary left), and the bridges have become a public safety hazard for the reasons stated in the article.
8 total lanes are needed (2 travel lanes, 1 aux lane, 1 shoulder/breakdown lane - per side). And the Cape Cod NIMBYs are already complaining in the comments.
I say meet the NIMBYs halfway, and make the new bridges at least RESEMBLE the old ones...just wider. That way the Canal retains the aesthetics it's had for the last 80+ years.
It will be bridges only. No way will you get any new highway construction. There would be too great a disruption to wildlife habitats. What I wish they would do is extend I-195 to MA 3 as an additional route to Plymouth. I would like to see the new bridges designed with a character similar to the current ones and possibly with a but more clearence so taller cruise ships could get underneath. And yes, cruise ships do use the Canal.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on July 06, 2019, 07:00:53 PMWhat I wish they would do is extend I-195 to MA 3 as an additional route to Plymouth.
That would be nice... then there would be an all-highway route from New York to the Cape, which there isn't at present. You'd think those who live in the Buzzards Bay area would be all for a bypass to take that thru traffic off of Scenic Highway.
To be fair, all routes through the Cape are locked up in summer. I-195 will just speed people faster into the bottlenecks of 6/6A.
These bridges sound fishy.
Quote from: DJ Particle on July 01, 2019, 07:52:47 AM
8 total lanes are needed (2 travel lanes, 1 aux lane, 1 shoulder/breakdown lane - per side). And the Cape Cod NIMBYs are already complaining in the comments.
I say meet the NIMBYs halfway, and make the new bridges at least RESEMBLE the old ones...just wider. That way the Canal retains the aesthetics it's had for the last 80+ years.
I wonder if a path in the replacement bridge for pedestrians and cyclists might calm a bit the nimbys? The long awaited A-25 bridge between Montreal and Laval was finally built after years of opposition with the inclusion of a bike path.
Quote from: Alps on July 06, 2019, 11:58:45 PM
To be fair, all routes through the Cape are locked up in summer. I-195 will just speed people faster into the bottlenecks of 6/6A.
But it could be useful if there's a major accident in between it and the bridges. And it would be an additional evacuation route for the South Coast. Plus, if you wanted to, say, go from Plymouth to New Bedford you wouldn't have to jog southeast to Bourne.
QuoteI wonder if a path in the replacement bridge for pedestrians and cyclists might calm a bit the nimbys?
Moot point. A separate (and wider) bike/ped path is already proposed for both bridges.
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/feds-again-reject-cape-cod-bridge-replacement-funds/2936229/
No new Cape Cod bridges, not anytime soon at least.
Quote from: SectorZ on January 05, 2023, 12:06:23 PM
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/feds-again-reject-cape-cod-bridge-replacement-funds/2936229/
No new Cape Cod bridges, not anytime soon at least.
Eh, I wouldn't write them off yet. This is like saying that because the I-81 Viaduct Project in Syracuse was rejected for a couple of major federal grants that the project will not move forward, which, of course, is and was not the case. Funding options are many and as long as the need to replace the bridges is there, MA will find a way, especially with the other funding already secured.
Quote from: Rothman on January 05, 2023, 07:31:23 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on January 05, 2023, 12:06:23 PM
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/feds-again-reject-cape-cod-bridge-replacement-funds/2936229/
No new Cape Cod bridges, not anytime soon at least.
Eh, I wouldn't write them off yet. This is like saying that because the I-81 Viaduct Project in Syracuse was rejected for a couple of major federal grants that the project will not move forward, which, of course, is and was not the case. Funding options are many and as long as the need to replace the bridges is there, MA will find a way, especially with the other funding already secured.
Guess they only bridge they had money for was the Gold Star.
Massachusetts had a $5 billion surplus their most recent year, and $3 billion of that was given back to the residents by state law. They definitely have the money.
Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 10:18:50 PM
Massachusetts had a $5 billion surplus their most recent year, and $3 billion of that was given back to the residents by state law. They definitely have the money.
Wow. If they're looking for ideas, the surplus should go towards widening the Mass Pike to 8 lanes from Sturbridge to I-495.
I wonder what it would cost to leave those bridges alone, and build a third bridge between them connecting MA-25 to US-6. I would think that would end up carrying perhaps as much as half the total Cape traffic, leaving the others with much less traffic on them.
^ The existing bridges are pushing towards 100 years old. Even if not fully replaced, they would both still require significant rehabilitation. Nevermind that, between wetlands and the quarry north of the canal, and the national guard base and wildlife management area south of the canal, there is no good place to put a third bridge.
What about almost due east from Marion or Mattapoisett? While it would be a 3.4 mile bridge from Piney Point Rd in Marion to where Wings Neck Rd. meets Middle Rd. and S Rd. in Bourne, or 5.7 miles from Cedar Rd./Bay Rd. in Mattapoisett to Point Rd. in Falmouth, and the approach roads would need to be upgraded in either case, it's not insurmountable. I have no idea whether there are environmental issues here or not, though. (I haven't done the research here.)
Quote from: 1 on January 06, 2023, 09:45:45 AM
What about almost due east from Marion or Mattapoisett? While it would be a 3.4 mile bridge from Piney Point Rd in Marion to where Wings Neck Rd. meets Middle Rd. and S Rd. in Bourne, or 5.7 miles from Cedar Rd./Bay Rd. in Mattapoisett to Point Rd. in Falmouth, and the approach roads would need to be upgraded in either case, it's not insurmountable. I have no idea whether there are environmental issues here or not, though. (I haven't done the research here.)
That wouldn't work either. A LOT of residential that you'd be taking out to even attempt this. Everything on the west shore of Cape Cod is either residential/vacation house development or Town Forest/Conservation Area.
Quote from: froggie on January 06, 2023, 09:36:58 AM
^ The existing bridges are pushing towards 100 years old. Even if not fully replaced, they would both still require significant rehabilitation. Nevermind that, between wetlands and the quarry north of the canal, and the national guard base and wildlife management area south of the canal, there is no good place to put a third bridge.
Those are all artificial limitations that could be eliminated through eminent domain (a bit of the quarry), and an agreement with the military (the way I-5 goes through Camp Pendleton, CA). It looks to me like on the Cape side, the road would be completely within the base, so I don't know where there would be an environmental problem (other than everything is always an environmental problem). Physically, such a route would work very well, and be useful because it connects the bulk of the off-Cape area, which is mostly served by I-495 and I-195, to the bulk of the on-Cape area, which is mostly served by US-6.
Quote from: pderocco on January 08, 2023, 03:57:40 AM
Quote from: froggie on January 06, 2023, 09:36:58 AM
^ The existing bridges are pushing towards 100 years old. Even if not fully replaced, they would both still require significant rehabilitation. Nevermind that, between wetlands and the quarry north of the canal, and the national guard base and wildlife management area south of the canal, there is no good place to put a third bridge.
Those are all artificial limitations that could be eliminated through eminent domain (a bit of the quarry), and an agreement with the military (the way I-5 goes through Camp Pendleton, CA). It looks to me like on the Cape side, the road would be completely within the base, so I don't know where there would be an environmental problem (other than everything is always an environmental problem). Physically, such a route would work very well, and be useful because it connects the bulk of the off-Cape area, which is mostly served by I-495 and I-195, to the bulk of the on-Cape area, which is mostly served by US-6.
The bridges would have to be mighty tall to clear US 6 on the west end. The land around the Canal is not flat.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on January 09, 2023, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: pderocco on January 08, 2023, 03:57:40 AM
Quote from: froggie on January 06, 2023, 09:36:58 AM
^ The existing bridges are pushing towards 100 years old. Even if not fully replaced, they would both still require significant rehabilitation. Nevermind that, between wetlands and the quarry north of the canal, and the national guard base and wildlife management area south of the canal, there is no good place to put a third bridge.
Those are all artificial limitations that could be eliminated through eminent domain (a bit of the quarry), and an agreement with the military (the way I-5 goes through Camp Pendleton, CA). It looks to me like on the Cape side, the road would be completely within the base, so I don't know where there would be an environmental problem (other than everything is always an environmental problem). Physically, such a route would work very well, and be useful because it connects the bulk of the off-Cape area, which is mostly served by I-495 and I-195, to the bulk of the on-Cape area, which is mostly served by US-6.
The bridges would have to be mighty tall to clear US 6 on the west end. The land around the Canal is not flat.
Doesn't matter much how high the bridge is, as long as the two sides are fairly close in height. Looks like just NE of the power lines would work.
MassDOT is attempting again to get grant moneys to help pay for at least 1 of the Cape Cod Canal bridge replacements:
https://www.mass.gov/news/federal-funding-application-filed-for-sagamore-bridge-replacement (https://www.mass.gov/news/federal-funding-application-filed-for-sagamore-bridge-replacement)
Quote from: bob7374 on December 11, 2023, 11:23:19 AM
MassDOT is attempting again to get grant moneys to help pay for at least 1 of the Cape Cod Canal bridge replacements:
https://www.mass.gov/news/federal-funding-application-filed-for-sagamore-bridge-replacement (https://www.mass.gov/news/federal-funding-application-filed-for-sagamore-bridge-replacement)
Interesting that they are considering replacing one of them before the other. I would think there would be economies of scale in bidding both together but that's just speculation.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 13, 2023, 06:10:56 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on December 11, 2023, 11:23:19 AM
MassDOT is attempting again to get grant moneys to help pay for at least 1 of the Cape Cod Canal bridge replacements:
https://www.mass.gov/news/federal-funding-application-filed-for-sagamore-bridge-replacement (https://www.mass.gov/news/federal-funding-application-filed-for-sagamore-bridge-replacement)
Interesting that they are considering replacing one of them before the other. I would think there would be economies of scale in bidding both together but that's just speculation.
Replacing both bridges at the same time would seem to make sense, but I think the state's reasoning is twofold: first, one bridge will need to remain open to handle the inevitable delays that will result from construction; also, the Sagamore Bridge should be replaced first, since it handles traffic coming directly from Boston. Either way, I don't envy anyone who lives and works on the Cape.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on December 13, 2023, 07:28:46 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 13, 2023, 06:10:56 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on December 11, 2023, 11:23:19 AM
MassDOT is attempting again to get grant moneys to help pay for at least 1 of the Cape Cod Canal bridge replacements:
https://www.mass.gov/news/federal-funding-application-filed-for-sagamore-bridge-replacement (https://www.mass.gov/news/federal-funding-application-filed-for-sagamore-bridge-replacement)
Interesting that they are considering replacing one of them before the other. I would think there would be economies of scale in bidding both together but that's just speculation.
Replacing both bridges at the same time would seem to make sense, but I think the state's reasoning is twofold: first, one bridge will need to remain open to handle the inevitable delays that will result from construction; also, the Sagamore Bridge should be replaced first, since it handles traffic coming directly from Boston. Either way, I don't envy anyone who lives and works on the Cape.
Might also be wise to consider running the MBTA CapeFlyer service full time during construction, as opposed to just the summer.
MassDOT announces it has been awarded $372 million for rebuilding Cape Cod bridges:
https://www.mass.gov/news/healey-driscoll-administration-celebrates-372-million-win-for-cape-cod-bridges (https://www.mass.gov/news/healey-driscoll-administration-celebrates-372-million-win-for-cape-cod-bridges)
Since the ACoE actually owns the bridges, I feel like the Feds should be chipping in a bit more to begin with. But Congress doesn't seem to have much of an appetite for funding actual Federal roads, as evidenced by the insane backlog of NPS maintenance projects...
Another article on these bridges which are now slated to cost 4.5 billion to replace: https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/massachusetts-us-lawmakers-announce-372m-in-funds-to-rebuild-cape-cod-bridges/63427
The Sagamore Bridge replacement project has received $371,870,542 in grant moneys as part of the National Infrastructure Assistance (Mega) Program:
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2024-01/MEGA%20Fact%20Sheets%20FY%202023-2024_Final.pdf (https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2024-01/MEGA%20Fact%20Sheets%20FY%202023-2024_Final.pdf)
Is that expected to pay for the whole project? Somehow, that seems like a down payment.
And then there's Bourne...
Quote from: pderocco on January 26, 2024, 02:04:41 AM
Is that expected to pay for the whole project? Somehow, that seems like a down payment.
And then there's Bourne...
I'd imagine the Bourne Bridge will cost more due to its different approach lengths.
One could make a case that Sagamore is the higher need.
That $371M is a "down payment" in a project that will run 10-digits, but it's a significant step.