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German Autobahns

Started by Chris, May 03, 2009, 07:08:56 AM

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Brandon

Quote from: algorerhythms on July 18, 2010, 02:56:18 PM
Imagine the fury that would result if something like this were attempted on a busy Interstate highway...

Huh?  Every Labor Day, I-75 gets half shut down for over 5 miles so people can walk on it.
Then there's Bike the Drive in Chicago on busy Lake Shore Drive.  On a Sunday morning, the road is shut down so people can bicycle it.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg


Chris

Well, this road closure was 40 miles...

Alps

Quote from: Chris on July 19, 2010, 09:02:40 AM
Well, this road closure was 40 miles...
And with 3 million people walking on it, traffic along the corridor was probably plenty light for the day.

Chris

It is summer vacation in Germany, and it was a Sunday. However, A40 usually carries around 120,000 vehicles per day and is considered the most problematic Autobahn in all of Germany. It's called "the biggest parking lot of Germany".

A40 is among the most urban freeways you can find in Europe, it runs depressed, no shoulders, a lightrail in the median, tall apartments and skyscrapers around it. I really need to make a video there in the city of Essen.

mightyace

Quote from: Chris on July 20, 2010, 04:06:48 AM
a lightrail in the median

:hmmm: By lightrail, do you mean the modern version of trolleys/tramways (transit) or a lightweight (read guardrails) in the middle separating the lanes?
My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mightyace

I'm out of this F***KING PLACE!

aswnl

The first.
There's also a part of the A40 with a "Spurbus" (automatic guided bus) in the median:

Lightrail:


Spurbus:

iwishiwascanadian

I like the idea of putting transit in the medians of roads.  It saves money (the ROW is already owned), and minimal modifications to the road are needed.  Of course, the median would have to be wide enough. 

mightyace

Quote from: aswnl on July 28, 2010, 07:06:34 PM
There's also a part of the A40 with a "Spurbus" (automatic guided bus) in the median:

What is the point of this versus a rail line?  I see the concrete "tracks" (guideways) in the ground.  IMHO A railcar is less likely to get off track (derail) than one of those buses.
My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mightyace

I'm out of this F***KING PLACE!

Alps

Quote from: aswnl on July 28, 2010, 07:06:34 PM
The first.
There's also a part of the A40 with a "Spurbus" (automatic guided bus) in the median:

Lightrail:


Spurbus:


Question:
How well do these four-lane urban freeways work, especially during rush hour?  I'm under the impression Autobahnen and Italian Autostrada are generally two lanes each way, whereas some other countries (like the Netherlands) have more six to eight lane freeways in their midst.

mgk920

Quote from: AlpsROADS on July 29, 2010, 12:06:22 AM
Question:
How well do these four-lane urban freeways work, especially during rush hour?  I'm under the impression Autobahnen and Italian Autostrada are generally two lanes each way, whereas some other countries (like the Netherlands) have more six to eight lane freeways in their midst.

Just as many urban autobahns are six or more lanes wide as are freeways/motorways in other countries.

Mike

Chris

This Autobahn is the biggest parking lot of Germany. It needs 6, but better 8 lanes. If they really want to improve things, they should bring the transit facility underground and pave the median for extra lanes.

However, I have to add there are 4 east-west freeways within ~10 miles in this area, altogether with 20 - 24 lanes depending on location. But this A40 is the most problematic one.

aswnl

Quote from: mightyace on July 28, 2010, 11:41:50 PMWhat is the point of this versus a rail line?  I see the concrete "tracks" (guideways) in the ground.  IMHO A railcar is less likely to get off track (derail) than one of those buses.
Lightrail needs a complete railinfrastructure for only 1 line. The "guided bus tracks" are laid for the major section of many buslines, which operate as a normal bus when they leave the special tracks, making a vast network possible without laying railtracks everywhere.

By the way: if the median would have been used for extra lanes instead of this public transport, there would be significantly less traffic jams on the German A40.

shoptb1

Quote from: Chris on July 29, 2010, 03:22:38 AM

However, I have to add there are 4 east-west freeways within ~10 miles in this area, altogether with 20 - 24 lanes depending on location. But this A40 is the most problematic one.

The Rhine-Ruhr area is probably one of the most densely-populated and congested areas in Europe, and probably the world.  With 4435 km² and a population of some 7.3 million, it is the largest urban agglomeration in Germany. There are a lot of autobahns in the region, but none are 8-lane.  Traffic congestion is an everyday occurrence, but far less compared to Randstad, a metro area in the Netherlands.


Chris

It is actually not as congested as many people think. Sure, there are bottlenecks, but gridlocks like in Paris, London or Randstad are pretty rare.

Bickendan

Quote from: aswnl on July 29, 2010, 05:12:30 AM
Quote from: mightyace on July 28, 2010, 11:41:50 PMWhat is the point of this versus a rail line?  I see the concrete "tracks" (guideways) in the ground.  IMHO A railcar is less likely to get off track (derail) than one of those buses.
Lightrail needs a complete railinfrastructure for only 1 line. The "guided bus tracks" are laid for the major section of many buslines, which operate as a normal bus when they leave the special tracks, making a vast network possible without laying railtracks everywhere.

I was thinking this. I wonder how feasible it would be to create a hybrid ROW -- that is, essentially the SpurBus running on the light-rail tracks.

english si

#90
Quote from: Chris on July 29, 2010, 11:44:18 AM
It is actually not as congested as many people think. Sure, there are bottlenecks, but gridlocks like in... London... are pretty rare.
How can London have 'gridlock' - there's no grid? :P

While they aren't wide, at least the Rhine-Ruhr area has freeways. South London (taking it as Greater London south of the Thames, pop 2917900, area 645.78 and thus a density 4 times that of the Rhine-Ruhr area) is a fairly large, highly populated desert of roads - the only freeways are at the edge (A2 and A3, though the A206 along the Thames and a bit of the A20 can also count, plus the M25 isn't too far away) - in fact even at grade divided highways are hard to find. North London is a bit better, and at least has some radials and the north circular is nearly decent (some bits are iffy).

If you want to see what must be the worst major radial in the developed world, try the A23 through south London. The worst orbital is even worse - the South Circular Road (A205) - basically a set of roads declared to be major in the 1920s and the only work done on them since is a collection of one-way systems at some of the busier areas, making it even more confusing to follow.

The Rhine-Ruhr area at least has freeways and stuff to get onto, even if they aren't wide enough - it's not shopping streets and such like that are main routes.

Brandon

Quote from: aswnl on July 28, 2010, 07:06:34 PM
The first.
There's also a part of the A40 with a "Spurbus" (automatic guided bus) in the median:

Reminds me of the Kennedy, Eisenhower, and Dan Ryan Expressways here (albiet with heavy rail rapid transit in the median instead).
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Chris

8 people were killed and almost 100 injured in a massive crash on Autobahn A19 in Northern Germany during a dust storm. A large fire broke out. Over 250 firefighters and emergency personnel attended to the scene.
























iwishiwascanadian

Wow, that's crazy, it seemed like something out of the UAE or something.  Where did all of the dust come from anyway?

conekicker

Ouch, you wouldn't want to be the first emergency service vehicle to arrive at that one! Thankfully, such large incidents are relatively rare. I wonder how much damage the road took - burned asphalt, wrecked safety barrier, etc.?
Over 50 and thus a grumpy old man. Just as long as you realise I'm right and you're not, we'll get along just fine, OK? ;-)

3467

My mother was born in the Ruhr valley many years ago (1920s) and even though she left in WW2 ,she never recalls a dust storm in Germany but does recall transit lines in the middle of the new autobahns. One was near her house

mgk920

This area was nowhere near the Ruhr Valley, it is near the Baltic coast in former East Germany, just south of Rostok.  The dust is from from recently-plowed nearby farm fields and a month+ long period of drought.

Mike

Chris

Quote from: 3467 on April 08, 2011, 09:32:32 PM
My mother was born in the Ruhr valley many years ago (1920s) and even though she left in WW2 ,she never recalls a dust storm in Germany but does recall transit lines in the middle of the new autobahns. One was near her house

A40 in Essen has an S-bahn in the median. It also happens on A100 in Berlin, but otherwise it's rare. These were built in the 60's though.

pctech

I've always liked the signage of the Autobahns. I think the up facing arrows are better depicting the direction/destination and splitting of lanes. Can this be used on interstates here in the U.S.? Is it allowed in the MUTCD?

Mark

NE2

Quote from: pctech on June 04, 2012, 11:19:27 AM
I've always liked the signage of the Autobahns. I think the up facing arrows are better depicting the direction/destination and splitting of lanes. Can this be used on interstates here in the U.S.? Is it allowed in the MUTCD?
Actually, yes. The most recent MUTCD allows (and in some cases requires) these "arrow-per-lane" signs. http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/part2e.htm#section2E21
pre-1945 Florida route log

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