Stumbled across this today. Apparently the northern (Cornwall Island - Canadian mainland) span of the Seaway Bridge is being replaced with a shorter, lower span. I wonder if this project includes a permanent Canadian customs station on the mainland. I had wondered why the toll plaza was moved from the island to the mainland in addition to customs (causing traffic backups leading to the bridge and being shoved in to a constricted area); maybe it was for construction vehicles or something.
http://www.pontcornwallbridge.ca/eng/
Cornwall Island is part of the Akwasasne/St.Regis indian reservation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akwesasne http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornwall_Island_%28Ontario%29 and there was some troubles like cigarette smuggling and all.
The reservation is why customs moved, though I'm not sure what the reservation/firearms issue has to do with the toll plaza.
They probably didn't like the toll barrier being on their reservation either. Mohawks tend to have quite an aversion for anything that isn't theirs being built on their lands.
That's true; NYSDOT is actually having issues that are preventing them from repairing I-86 east of Salamanca right now.
I don't really see a great place for a toll plaza off of the island though; everywhere I can think of would back traffic up onto the bridge or local streets. It would be nice if it could go back to a full toll booth instead of a small station crammed into the double yellow line.
Quote from: deanej on August 14, 2012, 04:28:33 PM
I don't really see a great place for a toll plaza off of the island though; everywhere I can think of would back traffic up onto the bridge or local streets. It would be nice if it could go back to a full toll booth instead of a small station crammed into the double yellow line.
Go all E-ZPass (http://www.e-zpassiag.com/)! It would be a good first step toward including Canadian toll roads and toll crossings in the consortium.
The bridge authority can convert vehicles without transponder to pay-by-mail, or allow "offline" payment near or on the crossing.
E-Z Pass exits at the Peace Bridge between Buffalo and Fort Erie, no reason it cannot be adopted for Seaway.
To be fair, the Peace Bridge is located close to the Thruway, another agency that uses E-Z Pass...and a lot of the traffic using the bridge would also use the Thruway.
The SIB/Three Nations Crossing is used primarily by local traffic, and is located nowhere near the Thruway, so there's no reason to go out of the way to implement E-Z Pass capability that would be hardly used.
Why not move the tollbooth to the American side of the bridge?
I think there was even a proposal to move Canadian customs to the US side, though it fizzled out.
Quote from: deanej on August 16, 2012, 11:07:14 AM
I think there was even a proposal to move Canadian customs to the US side, though it fizzled out.
seems like a reasonable idea. cuts down on the number of utilities required if both customs offices share a single physical location. I believe it's like that for Hungary/Croatia at the new M7 motorway crossing station.
besides, US border patrol runs customs/immigration stations in various Canadian airports. I have a passport stamp which notes my entry into the US in Edmonton.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 16, 2012, 11:36:21 AM
Quote from: deanej on August 16, 2012, 11:07:14 AM
I think there was even a proposal to move Canadian customs to the US side, though it fizzled out.
seems like a reasonable idea. cuts down on the number of utilities required if both customs offices share a single physical location..........
besides, US border patrol runs customs/immigration stations in various Canadian airports. I have a passport stamp which notes my entry into the US in Edmonton.
Coutts, Alberta/Sweetgrass, Montana is a shared customs facility.
http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/102044
And yes, when flying to the US you go through US CBP (Customs/Immigration) while still in Canada at Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton & Vancouver.......so when your flight arrives in the US, you're on your way, no further formalities.
Amtrak has a similar US CBP facility in the Vancouver Rail Station and will shortly at Central Station in Montreal.
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 16, 2012, 12:22:34 PM
Coutts, Alberta/Sweetgrass, Montana is a shared customs facility.
looks like the building physically straddles the border? since the border is not a river, this is easy to do here. I have used that facility once, heading north, and didn't notice anything unusual about it - only in the satellite view did I realize that it is one facility.
QuoteAnd yes, when flying to the US you go through US CBP (Customs/Immigration) while still in Canada at Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton & Vancouver.......so when your flight arrives in the US, you're on your way, no further formalities.
this is an excellent idea. I've missed a flight before due to not clearing customs in time. This was an Reykjavik-Minn/StP-San Diego itinerary.
there are some preclearance facilities in Ireland (Shannon and Dublin airports), as well as in the Caribbean, and there is apparently going to be one in Abu Dhabi.
(interestingly, I just learned that there are direct flights between Abu Dhabi and the US - I had thought Abu Dhabi was further east... shows how shaky my geography is!)
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 16, 2012, 12:22:34 PMAmtrak has a similar US CBP facility in the Vancouver Rail Station and will shortly at Central Station in Montreal.
It's in the plans but disagreements among the parties are considerably slowing the process down.
Honestly, I'd prefer status quo (stop and inspection at border). Otherwise, the train will be "sealed" for as long as it is in Canada, and my stop, St. Lambert, will be dropped from the itinerary.
Quote from: deanej on August 16, 2012, 11:07:14 AM
I think there was even a proposal to move Canadian customs to the US side, though it fizzled out.
Yep- when the new Rooseveltown border station was built a few years ago, there were extra lanes built on the other side that could be used by northbound traffic. The issue, of course, was the fact that a Canadian customs station would be located entirely in America.
Quote from: cu2010 on August 16, 2012, 02:34:22 PM
Yep- when the new Rooseveltown border station was built a few years ago, there were extra lanes built on the other side that could be used by northbound traffic. The issue, of course, was the fact that a Canadian customs station would be located entirely in America.
you'd think that the two countries are sufficiently friendly that the US border patrol wouldn't give the whole nine yards to a Canadian customs employee reporting to work...
but, given that this is the country which spawned the TSA, I wouldn't be surprised by anything.
IIRC, the Hungary/Croatia facility has officials from both sides give each vehicle a single inspection. going from Hungary to Croatia, the Hungarian officer looks at your papers, passes it to the Croatian officer, who them returns them, and then you are allowed through. the other direction, the order is reversed.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 16, 2012, 04:35:07 PM
Quote from: cu2010 on August 16, 2012, 02:34:22 PM
Yep- when the new Rooseveltown border station was built a few years ago, there were extra lanes built on the other side that could be used by northbound traffic. The issue, of course, was the fact that a Canadian customs station would be located entirely in America.
you'd think that the two countries are sufficiently friendly that the US border patrol wouldn't give the whole nine yards to a Canadian customs employee reporting to work...
but, given that this is the country which spawned the TSA, I wouldn't be surprised by anything.
IIRC, the Hungary/Croatia facility has officials from both sides give each vehicle a single inspection. going from Hungary to Croatia, the Hungarian officer looks at your papers, passes it to the Croatian officer, who them returns them, and then you are allowed through. the other direction, the order is reversed.
I don't see how this is any different than pre-clearance that happens in Canadian airports (and is allowed in US Airports by Canadian officials too, this option has just not been exercised by CBSA). But supposidly pre-clearance didn't work at the Peace Bridge (Buffalo wanted the US inspection facility to be moved to the Canadian side).
I think part of the hangup for the Peace Bridge was that US officials on the Canadian side would not be given full arrest powers while on Canadian soil. I don't see why this is a problem...if a US Customs officer finds a reason to arrest someone when they are in Canada, why can't they just keep their mouth shut, send an alert to local law enforcement, and let the person proceed into the USA? When they reach the US side of the bridge, have local law enforcement stop and arrest them and turn them back over to US authorities.
Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on August 16, 2012, 01:50:23 PM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 16, 2012, 12:22:34 PMAmtrak has a similar US CBP facility in the Vancouver Rail Station and will shortly at Central Station in Montreal.
It's in the plans but disagreements among the parties are considerably slowing the process down.
Honestly, I'd prefer status quo (stop and inspection at border). Otherwise, the train will be "sealed" for as long as it is in Canada, and my stop, St. Lambert, will be dropped from the itinerary.
Perhaps they could use the system for "express" trains and keep the status quo for "local" ones?
Quote from: mtantillo on August 16, 2012, 05:49:16 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 16, 2012, 04:35:07 PM
Quote from: cu2010 on August 16, 2012, 02:34:22 PM
Yep- when the new Rooseveltown border station was built a few years ago, there were extra lanes built on the other side that could be used by northbound traffic. The issue, of course, was the fact that a Canadian customs station would be located entirely in America.
you'd think that the two countries are sufficiently friendly that the US border patrol wouldn't give the whole nine yards to a Canadian customs employee reporting to work...
but, given that this is the country which spawned the TSA, I wouldn't be surprised by anything.
IIRC, the Hungary/Croatia facility has officials from both sides give each vehicle a single inspection. going from Hungary to Croatia, the Hungarian officer looks at your papers, passes it to the Croatian officer, who them returns them, and then you are allowed through. the other direction, the order is reversed.
I don't see how this is any different than pre-clearance that happens in Canadian airports (and is allowed in US Airports by Canadian officials too, this option has just not been exercised by CBSA). But supposidly pre-clearance didn't work at the Peace Bridge (Buffalo wanted the US inspection facility to be moved to the Canadian side).
I think part of the hangup for the Peace Bridge was that US officials on the Canadian side would not be given full arrest powers while on Canadian soil. I don't see why this is a problem...if a US Customs officer finds a reason to arrest someone when they are in Canada, why can't they just keep their mouth shut, send an alert to local law enforcement, and let the person proceed into the USA? When they reach the US side of the bridge, have local law enforcement stop and arrest them and turn them back over to US authorities.
I don't see the issue either... customs is supposed to handle duties and keeping out people/goods that aren't allowed into the country, not general law enforcement.
Quote from: deanej on August 17, 2012, 12:34:13 PM
Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on August 16, 2012, 01:50:23 PM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 16, 2012, 12:22:34 PMAmtrak has a similar US CBP facility in the Vancouver Rail Station and will shortly at Central Station in Montreal.
It's in the plans but disagreements among the parties are considerably slowing the process down.
Honestly, I'd prefer status quo (stop and inspection at border). Otherwise, the train will be "sealed" for as long as it is in Canada, and my stop, St. Lambert, will be dropped from the itinerary.
Perhaps they could use the system for "express" trains and keep the status quo for "local" ones?
Sadly, it's one train a day.
Mohawk, Canadian governments disagree over toll booth placement (http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120822/NEWS05/708229894)
Apparently the Mohawks want the tollbooth moved back to Cornwall Island, saying it's keeping Canadian visitors from visiting (putting the tollbooth in the former customs facility would allow visitors from Canada to visit for free), while the bridge operator would rather keep it in Cornwall.
I was wondering why they demolished the toll plaza but not the customs plaza... seemed backwards in my mind.
I wonder why the bridge company is complaining about safety... toll collectors are unarmed, right? Plus it's kinda hard to justify having the booths on the mainland due to traffic tie-ups.
Quote from: cu2010 on August 22, 2012, 02:58:09 PM
Mohawk, Canadian governments disagree over toll booth placement (http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120822/NEWS05/708229894)
Apparently the Mohawks want the tollbooth moved back to Cornwall Island, saying it's keeping Canadian visitors from visiting (putting the tollbooth in the former customs facility would allow visitors from Canada to visit for free), while the bridge operator would rather keep it in Cornwall.
This came up at the meet. "You don't want us on your island?" (meaning customs) "Fine, we'll move off. We'll move EVERYTHING off. Enjoy."
Looks like everything is moving back. The graphic posted today on the Cornwall Bridge project shows the toll booth on the island and no customs plaza in sight.
http://www.pontcornwallbridge.ca/eng/?p=1583
QuoteI think part of the hangup for the Peace Bridge was that US officials on the Canadian side would not be given full arrest powers while on Canadian soil.
This problem could be solved by making the CBP facility US soil like embassies are.
Quote from: Transportfan on November 16, 2012, 02:02:24 PM
QuoteI think part of the hangup for the Peace Bridge was that US officials on the Canadian side would not be given full arrest powers while on Canadian soil.
This problem could be solved by making the CBP facility US soil like embassies are.
They're actually on the way to doing it: http://www.torontosun.com/2012/10/19/agreement-could-see-us-border-guards-on-canadian-soil