The time zones in North America are again discussed. Too many places in Canada are in wrong time zone. Many places have solar noon at 2:00 to 3:00 pm. Time zones could be realigned to keep solar noon as close to 12:00 pm as possible. Yukon is definitely in wrong time zone. Look at sunrise and sunset times of:
Old Crow, YT (https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/canada/old-crow?month=12&year=2022)
Inuvik, NT (https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/canada/inuvik?month=9&year=2022)
Just before November DST change, sun rises at 11:27 am and sets on 5:48 pm. In place at same latitude in Finland (at 25'00E), sun rises at 8:51 am and sets at 3:14 pm.
In before lock.
You must not be familiar with the infamous DST threads a few years ago. It's a forbidden topic now.
Quote from: 1 on February 10, 2023, 06:48:49 AM
You must not be familiar with the infamous DST threads a few years ago. It's a forbidden topic now.
Why is DST banned?
If the people of Yukon want their time zone changed, they have the means to work to make that change. They don't need some random poster on a roads forum to suggest that to them.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 10, 2023, 06:54:54 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 10, 2023, 06:48:49 AM
You must not be familiar with the infamous DST threads a few years ago. It's a forbidden topic now.
Why is DST banned?
People just say the damn things every time it's discussed. It's boring, repetitive, and incredibly stupid.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2023, 07:20:12 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 10, 2023, 06:54:54 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 10, 2023, 06:48:49 AM
You must not be familiar with the infamous DST threads a few years ago. It's a forbidden topic now.
Why is DST banned?
People just say the damn things every time it's discussed. It's boring, repetitive, and incredibly stupid.
Oh... Hold my beer and wait until this one spins up!
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 10, 2023, 05:48:06 AM
The time zones in North America are again discussed. Too many places in Canada are in wrong time zone. Many places have solar noon at 2:00 to 3:00 pm. Time zones could be realigned to keep solar noon as close to 12:00 pm as possible. Yukon is definitely in wrong time zone. Look at sunrise and sunset times of:
Europe is routinely switching clocks to have solar noon at 13 nominally (DST). Having solar noon further out at 14 or even 15 is beneficial for northern areas with shorter winter solar day - such as Sweden or Finland.
Quote from: 1 on February 10, 2023, 06:48:49 AM
You must not be familiar with the infamous DST threads a few years ago. It's a forbidden topic now.
But this is Canadian time zones. I doubt it'll get as fiery.
...
Hm. Why isn't it "firey"?
Time Zones 2: Daylight Boogaloo
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on February 10, 2023, 08:45:07 AM
Time Zones 2: Daylight Boogaloo
This is the most proper response.
Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2023, 08:15:47 AM
Hm. Why isn't it "firey"?
Hmmm...wondered about this as well...
https://www.writerscentre.com.au/blog/qa-firey-vs-fiery/
https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2006/08/why-isnt-there-a-fire-in-fiery.html
QuoteThe word "fire" was experimented with a lot during the Middle Ages — originally it had the spelling of "fyr" as well as a bunch of others, including "fier" .
I demand Sault Sainte John Madden Standard Time.
Well, since the last time we had a time zone thread, Yukon has actually changed their time zone to Mountain time with no daylight savings. Before, they were on Pacific time and adjusting twice a year for DST.
It makes sense - essentially what this does is put them on permanent PDT, and so for most of the year they still have the same time as British Columbia, an hour behind Alberta, and an hour ahead of Alaska. The only thing that really raises my eyebrows is the 2-hour change that now happens at the Alaska border during winter.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2023, 09:37:15 AM
I demand Sault Sainte John Madden Standard Time.
Alanland standard time is always 12.25 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on February 10, 2023, 08:45:07 AM
Time Zones 2: Daylight Boogaloo
I needed this today. Thank you!
Quote from: US 89 on February 10, 2023, 09:45:57 AM
Well, since the last time we had a time zone thread, Yukon has actually changed their time zone to Mountain time with no daylight savings. Before, they were on Pacific time and adjusting twice a year for DST.
It makes sense - essentially what this does is put them on permanent PDT, and so for most of the year they still have the same time as British Columbia, an hour behind Alberta, and an hour ahead of Alaska. The only thing that really raises my eyebrows is the 2-hour change that now happens at the Alaska border during winter.
I've previously mentioned the situation that occurs in the far southeastern area of Western Australia. The issue there is that WA doesn't observe DST (it used to, but it abolished it in 2009), while South Australia does. During standard time, the time difference at the state line is 90 minutes; during DST, it's 150 minutes (two and a half hours). The large time difference prompted the small number of people in the area of WA from Eucla west to near Caiguna to adopt their own 45-minute offset time zone to reduce the time difference.
Maybe some of the people along the Alaska—Yukon border could do something similar as a practical matter. That sort of thing is not unique to the Australian example I mentioned above. A lot of people and businesses in Phenix City, Alabama, for example, operate on Eastern Time to be in sync with the much larger city of Columbus, Georgia, just across the river to the east (no state or federal government buildings, such as the post office or the courthouse, do this, but city government buildings do).
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on February 10, 2023, 08:45:07 AM
Time Zones 2: Daylight Boogaloo
Time Zone 3: Time Zone: With A Vengeance
TZ3.5: Half-hour offset
Quote from: 1 on February 10, 2023, 10:48:14 AM
TZ3.5: Half-hour offset
TZ 3.45: Departing from 9¾
Any time zone discussion invariably includes a recommendation that all of Kentucky go to Central time. Which would not go over well with me.
In winter, it gets dark so early anyway; if we were on Central time, it would get dark an hour earlier. Meaning that in most of December and January, instead of being dark by the time I get home from work, it would be dark by the time I leave work.
It's why I prefer The Forbidden Topic to standard time, and I'm looking forward to the return of The Forbidden Topic in a few weeks.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2023, 11:06:25 AM
Any time zone discussion invariably includes a recommendation that all of Kentucky go to Central time. Which would not go over well with me.
In winter, it gets dark so early anyway; if we were on Central time, it would get dark an hour earlier. Meaning that in most of December and January, instead of being dark by the time I get home from work, it would be dark by the time I leave work.
It's why I prefer The Forbidden Topic to standard time, and I'm looking forward to the return of The Forbidden Topic in a few weeks.
In Colorado I enjoy the return of The Forbidden Topic as well-it allows for me to walk my dog in daylight instead of darkness after work.
Truth be told, I've been struggling to keep working after the sun goes down, so now I'm on Team Standard Time.
South Africa stays on standard time year round. When I was there last year it was fully light by 5 AM.
Quote from: 1 on February 10, 2023, 10:48:14 AM
TZ3.5: Half-hour offset
Time Zone 6: Return of the Daylight Savings
Nome has sunrise at 12:03 pm and sunset at 3:57 pm at winter solstice, and sunrise at 4:19 am and sunset at 1:47 am at summer solstice. Nome is in -9, but -11 would suit Nome better. The winter solstice would have sunrise and sunset at 10:03 am/1:57 pm and summer solstice at 2:19 am/11:47 pm.
Once again, the fine people of Nome have a way to change their time zone if they wish to do it. They don't have to listen to some random forum poster from halfway around the world.
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 10, 2023, 11:52:36 AM
Truth be told, I've been struggling to keep working after the sun goes down, so now I'm on Team Standard Time.
On some days I've been struggling to keep working after the sun goes down, and also while the sun is up...
So your mileage may vary....
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2023, 09:37:15 AM
I demand John Madden Standard Time.
Too many time outs, hard pass.
Hey, Kentucky should go to all Central Time across the entire state.
Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2023, 01:33:19 PM
Hey, Kentucky should go to all Central Time across the entire state.
Some of those valleys in your family's ancestral homeland would be dark by 3:30 in the winter if that was the case.
Pssh, some of us are quite used to the sun setting at 1530 near the solstice.
What about how much energy it takes to run a kid over with a school bus?
Souky should go to +1-1/2 (half-hour past CET).
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2023, 04:42:17 PM
What about how much energy it takes to run a kid over with a school bus?
Small goats run over buses in Alanland, so you'd have to use the Quigley-Parsons Equation to figure out the energy involved in the rupture of the time/time diaphragm in decanumberwangs.
67
Quote from: formulanone on February 10, 2023, 05:42:43 PM
67
Inflation is so high we can't even afford a 71 anymore, I guess.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2023, 06:30:56 PM
Quote from: formulanone on February 10, 2023, 05:42:43 PM
67
Inflation is so high we can't even afford a 71 anymore, I guess.
Of course, because Alanlandian inflation is measured in crab mallets.
We need exact solar time. Accuracy should be demanded. Now that would mean that Boston would have a slightly different time than Worcester but who gives a fuck.
It should always be 5 o'clock everywhere.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
It should always be 5 o'clock everywhere.
Wasn't there some actual legitimate argument in one of the DST threads regarding having one single standard time?
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
It should always be 5 o'clock everywhere.
But for now, it's always 5 o'clock
somewhere.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2023, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
It should always be 5 o'clock everywhere.
Wasn't there some actual legitimate argument in one of the DST threads regarding having one single standard time?
Would certainly make international communication easier. But it would not be what are body's are made to do.
Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2023, 08:54:34 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 10, 2023, 08:05:16 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on February 10, 2023, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
It should always be 5 o'clock everywhere.
But for now, it's always 5 o'clock somewhere.
2 somewheres.
So it's always a good time for tea!
Or an old bottle of Dr Pepper: https://www.southernliving.com/food/drinks/dr-pepper-bottle-numbers
Quote from: Big John on February 10, 2023, 11:09:16 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2023, 08:54:34 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 10, 2023, 08:05:16 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on February 10, 2023, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
It should always be 5 o'clock everywhere.
But for now, it's always 5 o'clock somewhere.
2 somewheres.
So it's always a good time for tea!
Or an old bottle of Dr Pepper: https://www.southernliving.com/food/drinks/dr-pepper-bottle-numbers
Was that article even necessary? I could tell it was some kind of play on a clock just by looking at it.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on February 10, 2023, 11:14:43 PM
Quote from: Big John on February 10, 2023, 11:09:16 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2023, 08:54:34 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 10, 2023, 08:05:16 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on February 10, 2023, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
It should always be 5 o'clock everywhere.
But for now, it's always 5 o'clock somewhere.
2 somewheres.
So it's always a good time for tea!
Or an old bottle of Dr Pepper: https://www.southernliving.com/food/drinks/dr-pepper-bottle-numbers
Was that article even necessary? I could tell it was some kind of play on a clock just by looking at it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization
Quote from: kirbykart on February 10, 2023, 05:30:24 PM
Souky should go to +1-1/2 (half-hour past CET).
Souky is in Mountain Time Zone (-7).
I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2023, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
It should always be 5 o'clock everywhere.
Wasn't there some actual legitimate argument in one of the DST threads regarding having one single standard time?
People and institutions that need there to be One Standard Time are already using UTC. Astronomers, military, airlines, computer communication networks that operate worldwide.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 11, 2023, 01:24:35 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on February 10, 2023, 05:30:24 PM
Souky should go to +1-1/2 (half-hour past CET).
Souky is in Mountain Time Zone (-7).
I don't care what time zone it is currently in. I am proposing it changes to a half-hour past Central European Time.
The whole world should use EST because I live there and all the important US cities that people care about are there.
The whole world should use Nepal's time zone.
Quote from: kirbykart on February 11, 2023, 04:43:52 PM
The whole world should use Nepal's time zone.
The whole world should use Alanland's time zone.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 11, 2023, 01:24:35 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on February 10, 2023, 05:30:24 PM
Souky should go to +1-1/2 (half-hour past CET).
Souky is in Mountain Time Zone (-7).
I invade Souky and change the time zone to -4⅔.
I rolled a 19 for initiative, by the way.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 11, 2023, 04:57:39 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 11, 2023, 01:24:35 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on February 10, 2023, 05:30:24 PM
Souky should go to +1-1/2 (half-hour past CET).
Souky is in Mountain Time Zone (-7).
I invade Souky and change the time zone to -4⅔.
I rolled a 19 for initiative, by the way.
Does Souky use the same time zone as Alanland?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 11, 2023, 04:44:25 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on February 11, 2023, 04:43:52 PM
The whole world should use Nepal's time zone.
The whole world should use Alanland's time zone.
it is always 12.43 in Alanland.
Quote from: kalvado on February 11, 2023, 04:58:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 11, 2023, 04:44:25 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on February 11, 2023, 04:43:52 PM
The whole world should use Nepal's time zone.
The whole world should use Alanland's time zone.
it is always 12.43 in Alanland.
Sorry to burst your goat bubble, but I'm on Rocky Mountain Standard Elk Time.
The world should have no time. The order and frequency at which events occur are now meaningless. Our existence will just blur into one continuous stream of consciousness, the only guiding indicator being day and night.....
Quote from: interstatefan990 on February 11, 2023, 07:16:18 PM
The world should have no time. The order and frequency at which events occur are now meaningless. Our existence will just blur into one continuous stream of consciousness, the only guiding indicator being day and night.....
OK, I guess you are not planning for breakfast and lunch tomorrow?
Quote from: interstatefan990 on February 11, 2023, 07:16:18 PM
The world should have no time. The order and frequency at which events occur are now meaningless. Our existence will just blur into one continuous stream of consciousness, the only guiding indicator being day and night.....
The world should have time, but every human should be able to determine their own time. This ensures that every human lives on a time frame that they are comfortable with.
You can also stop time by lagging the server greatly – or by simply stepping out of bounds.
Quote from: kalvado on February 11, 2023, 07:20:48 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on February 11, 2023, 07:16:18 PM
The world should have no time. The order and frequency at which events occur are now meaningless. Our existence will just blur into one continuous stream of consciousness, the only guiding indicator being day and night.....
OK, I guess you are not planning for breakfast and lunch tomorrow?
Well, I am. But I'll eat when I'm hungry, not when I see the clock and think "Oh boy, it's time for dinner!" Which most people should be doing already IMO.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 11, 2023, 07:43:37 PM
The world should have time, but every human should be able to determine their own time. This ensures that every human lives on a time frame that they are comfortable with.
A much better excuse for being late to work than "stuck in traffic".
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2023, 04:25:20 PM
I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.
I can't find my old post, so here goes the story again.
When I was working on a railroad project on the former Baltimore & Ohio in western Illinois, the territory supervisor worked out of Washington, Indiana and lived in Vincennes. Often, I would stay in Vincennes so as to commute to the project together (about a 2-hour drive). Railroaders are expected to arrive at work before 7:00AM and railroad time splits in Little Washington (Cincinnati time to the east and St. Louis time to the west). Of course, that doesn't fit perfectly with Indiana time and Illinois. When I started the project, Vincennes was on Eastern Standard Time and as such, I needed to get up about 4:00AM CST (5:00AM EST in Vincennes time) to get breakfast and arrive at the project before 0700 StLST. But when Daylight Savings Time hit, Indiana didn't change. But the railroad didn't care, because that's not Cincinnati time. So once again, I would need to get up about 4:00AM CDT to get breakfast and arrive at the project before 07:00 StLDT. And although 4:00AM CDT was still 0500 CinDT, it was also 4:00AM Vincennes time (4:00AM EST). I literally needed two watches to figure this one out. :spin:
Similar to Dirt Roads above, my wife's family mostly lived in SW Michigan, but her aunt lived in Fort Wayne. Part of the year they were on the same time, but in summer they were different because IN didn't do DST. So when they planned the summer family picnic at her uncle's pool, they had to specify "Michigan time".
Less than one month from now as I type this, that which must not be named on this forum happens.
I lived in Indiana in the late 1970s. I still don't know how we managed to live in a place where you never knew what time it was, with the crazy combinations of who recognized DST and where the time zone line was.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2023, 09:02:44 AM
Less than one month from now as I type this, that which must not be named on this forum happens.
DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME!
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 12, 2023, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2023, 09:02:44 AM
Less than one month from now as I type this, that which must not be named on this forum happens.
DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME!
No such thing.
:bigass:
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2023, 03:19:10 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 12, 2023, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2023, 09:02:44 AM
Less than one month from now as I type this, that which must not be named on this forum happens.
DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME!
No such thing.
:bigass:
The Senate passed a bill getting rid of it but the House didn't pass it.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 12, 2023, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2023, 09:02:44 AM
Less than one month from now as I type this, that which must not be named on this forum happens.
DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME!
This thread must now fall back.
Reopening - Keep the DST stuff civil, We know it's a debate that has no clear winner.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 12, 2023, 04:32:36 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2023, 03:19:10 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 12, 2023, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2023, 09:02:44 AM
Less than one month from now as I type this, that which must not be named on this forum happens.
DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME!
No such thing.
:bigass:
The Senate passed a bill getting rid of it but the House didn't pass it.
My point was rather more nuanced (and, arguably, pedantic) than that.
Quote from: SSOWorld on February 12, 2023, 09:33:49 PM
Reopening - Keep the DST stuff civil, We know it's a debate that has no clear winner.
Somebody played an Uno reverse card.
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2023, 04:25:20 PMI've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending experience.
My great-aunt and great-uncle lived on a farm in Kearny County, Kansas when it was among the few US counties split between different time zones. I don't recall where they were exactly in relation to the boundary, but they were midway between Deerfield (Central) and Lakin (Mountain), so they had to keep track of two sets of business hours. They were happy when the time zone boundary was moved to the Hamilton County line, putting all of Kearny in Central.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 12, 2023, 06:33:57 PM
This thread must now fall back.
I knew it would happen :sombrero::
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on February 10, 2023, 06:37:52 AM
In before lock.
Except that this time...
Quote from: SSOWorld on February 12, 2023, 09:33:49 PM
Reopening - Keep the DST stuff civil, We know it's a debate that has no clear winner.
Anyway, I prefer to stay away from that whole DST nonsense and instead bring up something that bothers me: The time zone I'm in. When I went to Italy last August I noticed it was already pitch dark by 9:15 pm, and I asked my relatives back in Spain if it was the case. It turned out it wasn't yet, so when I came back home I decided to turn my clocks back one hour to better reflect the time of the day. This would have had the side effect once DST ended at the end of October (in Europe DST ends one week earlier than in the USA) I would have been perfectly aligned with UTC. I didn't make it to the end of the month before putting them back to the official hour.
Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.
Ok.. some strong ideas...
Abolish time zones!
Historically "time zones" started as city-wide zones with 12 = solar noon in the city. There was no way of synchronizing clock long haul, nor personal clock was accurate enough. Butter was no need to sync. So Baltimore and Richmond could have their specific times
Telegraph and railroad required better synch, so local clocks were aligned to 1 hour increment.
Fast forward, we have large areas functioning as single economy. Maybe even larger time zones are needed?
China is a single time zone, so can be EU, or US (or even entire north America)
Yes, local hours may look funny from today perspective. If bank is open 9-6pm in NY and CA, eastern and Pacific respectively -it will have to run 8-5 in NY and 11-8 in CA if central time is universally adopted. It may be unusual for locals at first, but a smaller change than highway exit renumbering.
Hours are already non-universal, as wider spread of workday start is adopted to reduce traffic peaks, and CA starts early to get more overlap with NY.
So, central time for everyone in US, Brussels time for EU!
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2023, 07:22:07 AM
Ok.. some strong ideas...
Abolish time zones!
Historically "time zones" started as city-wide zones with 12 = solar noon in the city. There was no way of synchronizing clock long haul, nor personal clock was accurate enough. Butter was no need to sync. So Baltimore and Richmond could have their specific times
Telegraph and railroad required better synch, so local clocks were aligned to 1 hour increment.
Fast forward, we have large areas functioning as single economy. Maybe even larger time zones are needed?
China is a single time zone, so can be EU, or US (or even entire north America)
Yes, local hours may look funny from today perspective. If bank is open 9-6pm in NY and CA, eastern and Pacific respectively -it will have to run 8-5 in NY and 11-8 in CA if central time is universally adopted. It may be unusual for locals at first, but a smaller change than highway exit renumbering.
Hours are already non-universal, as wider spread of workday start is adopted to reduce traffic peaks, and CA starts early to get more overlap with NY.
So, central time for everyone in US, Brussels time for EU!
Make sure your argument provides for the correct time if you think it's actually feasible.
And just to point out, remembering exits on highways effects only those that use or provides exit numbers for that particular highway. It's a very small portion of the population that has an actual issue. Most people worry more about the changes than having directional issues after the changes.
It's correct as is.
When Eastern moves to Central, the clock moves back one hour, so keeping at the same solar time would be 9-6 → 8-5.
When Pacific moves to Central, the clock moves forward two hours, so keeping at the same solar time would be 9-6 → 11-8.
Similarly, the eastern edge of a time zone has earlier solar noon, while the western edge of a time zone has later solar noon.
I have the solution to this problem. We have one time zone, based on solar noon where the most population is, probably somewhere in Asia. Everyone in the world lives in accordance with the time there. They wake up, go to work and school, and go to sleep according to that time, regardless of what the sun is doing at their location. I can also fix DST. We move the clocks ahead by 24 hours in the spring and back in the fall. By moving forward and back a whole day, we don't have to worry about changes in sunrise and sunset times. We just won't have a March 7 and will have November 4 twice.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2023, 08:02:48 AM
And just to point out, remembering exits on highways effects only those that use or provides exit numbers for that particular highway. It's a very small portion of the population that has an actual issue. Most people worry more about the changes than having directional issues after the changes.
Since time thing is already answered..
Yes, exit numbers affect only those who commute on that highway. WHat is percentage of population using highway to get to work? Over here they say that the principal city of MSA gets 20% of MSA population commuting into the city limits. Most of them are using highways.
Quote from: wxfree on February 13, 2023, 08:11:22 AM
I have the solution to this problem. We have one time zone, based on solar noon where the most population is, probably somewhere in Asia. Everyone in the world lives in accordance with the time there. They wake up, go to work and school, and go to sleep according to that time, regardless of what the sun is doing at their location. I can also fix DST. We move the clocks ahead by 24 hours in the spring and back in the fall. By moving forward and back a whole day, we don't have to worry about changes in sunrise and sunset times. We just won't have a March 7 and will have November 4 twice.
That is a more extreme approach, but definitely along the same lines. GMT is already universal and used in the areas where global synch is required.
Somewhat of a showstopper for such approach would be that date may flip during the business hours. With GMT as universal time, Hawaians would have to start first workday of the week at 20.00 Sunday, and Monday starts during the lunch break. A good source of mess.
So keeping things limited to +/-3 hours (similar to switching to 4 time zones worldwide) is easier as date change would occur between 9 PM and 3 AM of the current time.
North America, South America and Australia are well geographically isolated to be separate zones.
By the way, if you look at land hemisphere/ocean hemisphere division, center of the world is somewhere is Spain - so GMT isn't a bad approach as universal time.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2023, 06:46:47 AM
Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.
I know you are a bit further east, but I wouldn't say that here in Rochester. The sunset is right around 9PM on the longest day of the year, so if it's a clear evening there's some light until at least 10PM.
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2023, 08:21:14 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2023, 06:46:47 AM
Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.
I know you are a bit further east, but I wouldn't say that here in Rochester. The sunset is right around 9PM on the longest day of the year, so if it's a clear evening there's some light until at least 10PM.
You need to go north for late sunsets. Winnipeg gets latest sunset at 9.40, Edmonton at 10.07, Anchoradge at 11.40
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2023, 08:19:42 AM
Quote from: wxfree on February 13, 2023, 08:11:22 AM
I have the solution to this problem. We have one time zone, based on solar noon where the most population is, probably somewhere in Asia. Everyone in the world lives in accordance with the time there. They wake up, go to work and school, and go to sleep according to that time, regardless of what the sun is doing at their location. I can also fix DST. We move the clocks ahead by 24 hours in the spring and back in the fall. By moving forward and back a whole day, we don't have to worry about changes in sunrise and sunset times. We just won't have a March 7 and will have November 4 twice.
That is a more extreme approach, but definitely along the same lines. GMT is already universal and used in the areas where global synch is required.
Somewhat of a showstopper for such approach would be that date may flip during the business hours. With GMT as universal time, Hawaians would have to start first workday of the week at 20.00 Sunday, and Monday starts during the lunch break. A good source of mess.
So keeping things limited to +/-3 hours (similar to switching to 4 time zones worldwide) is easier as date change would occur between 9 PM and 3 AM of the current time.
North America, South America and Australia are well geographically isolated to be separate zones.
By the way, if you look at land hemisphere/ocean hemisphere division, center of the world is somewhere is Spain - so GMT isn't a bad approach as universal time.
In my plan, the universal time isn't based on the center of land or the center of population, but on the highest population numbers. Basically, this means whatever time zone width strip of land has the highest population. This way, the correct time would benefit the greatest number of people. Everyone else would adjust to accommodate. The date wouldn't change during business hours. Business hours would be at the same time everywhere, as would the date change. In my area the beginning of the business day would probably be within the annual range of sunset hours and the end of the business day would be within or near the range of sunrise hours. Most of the business day would be in darkness and the date would change during daylight. One benefit is that third shift work, late PM to early AM, would probably become a lot more popular, since it would be during daylight, which would ease traffic in the traditional rush hours at the beginning and end of the business day (mostly darkness).
Quote from: wxfree on February 13, 2023, 08:44:30 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2023, 08:19:42 AM
Quote from: wxfree on February 13, 2023, 08:11:22 AM
I have the solution to this problem. We have one time zone, based on solar noon where the most population is, probably somewhere in Asia. Everyone in the world lives in accordance with the time there. They wake up, go to work and school, and go to sleep according to that time, regardless of what the sun is doing at their location. I can also fix DST. We move the clocks ahead by 24 hours in the spring and back in the fall. By moving forward and back a whole day, we don't have to worry about changes in sunrise and sunset times. We just won't have a March 7 and will have November 4 twice.
That is a more extreme approach, but definitely along the same lines. GMT is already universal and used in the areas where global synch is required.
Somewhat of a showstopper for such approach would be that date may flip during the business hours. With GMT as universal time, Hawaians would have to start first workday of the week at 20.00 Sunday, and Monday starts during the lunch break. A good source of mess.
So keeping things limited to +/-3 hours (similar to switching to 4 time zones worldwide) is easier as date change would occur between 9 PM and 3 AM of the current time.
North America, South America and Australia are well geographically isolated to be separate zones.
By the way, if you look at land hemisphere/ocean hemisphere division, center of the world is somewhere is Spain - so GMT isn't a bad approach as universal time.
In my plan, the universal time isn't based on the center of land or the center of population, but on the highest population numbers. Basically, this means whatever time zone width strip of land has the highest population. This way, the correct time would benefit the greatest number of people. Everyone else would adjust to accommodate. The date wouldn't change during business hours. Business hours would be at the same time everywhere, as would the date change. In my area the beginning of the business day would probably be within the annual range of sunset hours and the end of the business day would be within or near the range of sunrise hours. Most of the business day would be in darkness and the date would change during daylight. One benefit is that third shift work, late PM to early AM, would probably become a lot more popular, since it would be during daylight, which would ease traffic in the traditional rush hours at the beginning and end of the business day (mostly darkness).
You cannot trick human nature. You would still need to have most of the business during the solar day.
Having different local business hour - basically unchanged from today - and universally set clock isn't unrealistic. Not much more unrealistic that forcing Boston and Miami to use the same clock setting.
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2023, 08:13:40 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2023, 08:02:48 AM
And just to point out, remembering exits on highways effects only those that use or provides exit numbers for that particular highway. It's a very small portion of the population that has an actual issue. Most people worry more about the changes than having directional issues after the changes.
Since time thing is already answered..
Yes, exit numbers affect only those who commute on that highway. WHat is percentage of population using highway to get to work? Over here they say that the principal city of MSA gets 20% of MSA population commuting into the city limits. Most of them are using highways.
You missed what I said. I didn't say those that use highways. I said those that use exit numbers. Many commuters don't need to look at an Exit number to figure out the exit they are getting off at, especially if they've been commuting for years. They're just looking at the route number, or 'muscle memory' takes over and they're only using landmarks or road configurations that they're used to seeing every day. They probably wouldn't even notice the exit number changed.
This is the same psychology as when a lane configuration changes. Even though motorists are still going the same way, there's congestion especially when the lane configuration changes because it catches motorists off guard. No number of signs before the construction area will help, because motorists aren't looking at every sign along a route they take every day.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2023, 09:22:59 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2023, 08:13:40 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2023, 08:02:48 AM
And just to point out, remembering exits on highways effects only those that use or provides exit numbers for that particular highway. It's a very small portion of the population that has an actual issue. Most people worry more about the changes than having directional issues after the changes.
Since time thing is already answered..
Yes, exit numbers affect only those who commute on that highway. WHat is percentage of population using highway to get to work? Over here they say that the principal city of MSA gets 20% of MSA population commuting into the city limits. Most of them are using highways.
You missed what I said. I didn't say those that use highways. I said those that use exit numbers. Many commuters don't need to look at an Exit number to figure out the exit they are getting off at, especially if they've been commuting for years. They're just looking at the route number, or 'muscle memory' takes over and they're only using landmarks or road configurations that they're used to seeing every day. They probably wouldn't even notice the exit number changed.
This is the same psychology as when a lane configuration changes. Even though motorists are still going the same way, there's congestion especially when the lane configuration changes because it catches motorists off guard. No number of signs before the construction area will help, because motorists aren't looking at every sign along a route they take every day.
Well, maybe closer to city center - but further out things are more uniform. I definitely know very well that my exit is #11 at milepost 18.3 and that is my main navigation aid. I would easily confuse my exit with adjacent exits when looking from the road. Previous one is surrounded by trees as well, and the road is pretty straight... I may definitely say that I need to go 2 exits past that big shopping area, but that is as much guidance as I get from the road itself. Oh, and there are 3 exits serving the town making signage a bit more confusing.
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2023, 09:58:18 AM
Well, maybe closer to city center - but further out things are more uniform. I definitely know very well that my exit is #11 at milepost 18.3 and that is my main navigation aid. I would easily confuse my exit with adjacent exits when looking from the road. Previous one is surrounded by trees as well, and the road is pretty straight... I may definitely say that I need to go 2 exits past that big shopping area, but that is as much guidance as I get from the road itself. Oh, and there are 3 exits serving the town making signage a bit more confusing.
If they changed it to Exit 18, how long will you be driving looking for Exit 11 until you figure out your exit number changed?
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2023, 08:21:14 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2023, 06:46:47 AM
Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.
I know you are a bit further east, but I wouldn't say that here in Rochester. The sunset is right around 9PM on the longest day of the year, so if it's a clear evening there's some light until at least 10PM.
Meh, fine, not pitch black, but pretty dark by 9:15.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2023, 10:03:35 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2023, 09:58:18 AM
Well, maybe closer to city center - but further out things are more uniform. I definitely know very well that my exit is #11 at milepost 18.3 and that is my main navigation aid. I would easily confuse my exit with adjacent exits when looking from the road. Previous one is surrounded by trees as well, and the road is pretty straight... I may definitely say that I need to go 2 exits past that big shopping area, but that is as much guidance as I get from the road itself. Oh, and there are 3 exits serving the town making signage a bit more confusing.
If they changed it to Exit 18, how long will you be driving looking for Exit 11 until you figure out your exit number changed?
It wouldn't be exit 18, it will be exit 190 or so. That's a different story.
How long would I be looking for "Exit 9 liquor store" will depend on how badly I used their goods, though.
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2023, 04:25:20 PM
I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.
I'm only 80 miles from my parents and visiting them involves a time change.
There's a school district in between that has one elementary school in Eastern, with the other elementaries, the middle and high schools in Central.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 13, 2023, 12:05:12 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2023, 04:25:20 PM
I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.
I'm only 80 miles from my parents and visiting them involves a time change.
There's a school district in between that has one elementary school in Eastern, with the other elementaries, the middle and high schools in Central.
Time zones should always follow county boundaries.
This is all why time zones should be continuous, or at least accurate to 10 minutes. So Los Angeles and Las Vegas would be about 20 minutes apart, and the same with Columbus and Pittsburgh, or Austin and Houston. Rounding all locations to the nearest hour isn't precise enough to accurately reflect night and day and the true difference in time with distance.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 13, 2023, 12:17:49 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 13, 2023, 12:05:12 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2023, 04:25:20 PM
I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.
I'm only 80 miles from my parents and visiting them involves a time change.
There's a school district in between that has one elementary school in Eastern, with the other elementaries, the middle and high schools in Central.
Time zones should always follow county boundaries.
The time zone does follow the county boundaries. The school district has parts of multiple counties (this is common in Indiana).
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2023, 04:25:20 PM
I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.
My aunt and uncle lived near a county line that was the dividing point between Eastern and Central time. They had moved from an Eastern time county, and most of their business was done in an Eastern time county. They kept their clocks set to Central time but whenever they made reference to Eastern time, they referred to it as "Louisville time."
My colleague in the Somerset office (Eastern) lives in Russell County (Central). She changes time zones on every commute to work. I've never asked her how she deals with that situation.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 12, 2023, 04:32:36 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2023, 03:19:10 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 12, 2023, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2023, 09:02:44 AM
Less than one month from now as I type this, that which must not be named on this forum happens.
DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME!
No such thing.
:bigass:
The Senate passed a bill getting rid of it but the House didn't pass it.
Actually, I think the vote was to go to year-round DST, not abolish it.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 13, 2023, 12:28:06 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 13, 2023, 12:17:49 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 13, 2023, 12:05:12 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2023, 04:25:20 PM
I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.
I'm only 80 miles from my parents and visiting them involves a time change.
There's a school district in between that has one elementary school in Eastern, with the other elementaries, the middle and high schools in Central.
Time zones should always follow county boundaries.
The time zone does follow the county boundaries. The school district has parts of multiple counties (this is common in Indiana).
School districts should intracounty.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 13, 2023, 12:52:17 PMSchool districts should intracounty.
That wouldn't fly in states where schools have no connection to county administration. Two of my mother's siblings are (were) graduates of the Renwick district, so called because it extends into both Reno and Sedgwick Counties in Kansas.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 13, 2023, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2023, 04:25:20 PM
I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.
My aunt and uncle lived near a county line that was the dividing point between Eastern and Central time. They had moved from an Eastern time county, and most of their business was done in an Eastern time county. They kept their clocks set to Central time but whenever they made reference to Eastern time, they referred to it as "Louisville time."
My colleague in the Somerset office (Eastern) lives in Russell County (Central). She changes time zones on every commute to work. I've never asked her how she deals with that situation.
My former mother-in-law and her husband live southwest of Campbellsville, KY, in Taylor County (eastern) about 2,000 feet away as the crow flies from the Green County (central) line. When we'd visit, the cell phones would automatically switch between the two time zones at random times to the point I'd set two alarms just to ensure I woke up on time. Later, with the iPhone, I turned off the autochange feature and forced it onto Eastern time for our stays there.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 13, 2023, 12:17:49 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 13, 2023, 12:05:12 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2023, 04:25:20 PM
I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.
I'm only 80 miles from my parents and visiting them involves a time change.
There's a school district in between that has one elementary school in Eastern, with the other elementaries, the middle and high schools in Central.
Time zones should always follow county boundaries.
There are often very good reasons when they don't. Elko County, Nevada is split because West Wendover, NV and Wendover, UT are essentially one town and it would be dumb to have different sides observing different time. So your choice is either to move West Wendover into Utah time or Wendover into Nevada time. Although most of the population there is on the Nevada side, it's about 100 miles in either direction until you get to a larger city, and the stronger economic connections to the Salt Lake City metro area mean it makes far more sense for the community to observe Mountain time.
But Elko County is a massive county, and moving the whole county to Mountain time would be silly. West Wendover is closer to Salt Lake City, 122 miles away, than the other end of its own county. The city of Elko couldn't care less what goes on in Salt Lake, unless they're driving there to satisfy whatever big-city need they might have.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 13, 2023, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2023, 04:25:20 PM
I've always wondered what it's like to live near the border of two time zones. Must be a mind-bending expierence.
My aunt and uncle lived near a county line that was the dividing point between Eastern and Central time. They had moved from an Eastern time county, and most of their business was done in an Eastern time county. They kept their clocks set to Central time but whenever they made reference to Eastern time, they referred to it as "Louisville time."
My colleague in the Somerset office (Eastern) lives in Russell County (Central). She changes time zones on every commute to work. I've never asked her how she deals with that situation.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 12, 2023, 04:32:36 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2023, 03:19:10 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 12, 2023, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 12, 2023, 09:02:44 AM
Less than one month from now as I type this, that which must not be named on this forum happens.
DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME!
No such thing.
:bigass:
The Senate passed a bill getting rid of it but the House didn't pass it.
Actually, I think the vote was to go to year-round DST, not abolish it.
Correct. I couldn't care either way anymore. There is no clear winner in it.
Quote from: J N Winkler on February 13, 2023, 01:03:44 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 13, 2023, 12:52:17 PMSchool districts should intracounty.
That wouldn't fly in states where schools have no connection to county administration. Two of my mother's siblings are (were) graduates of the Renwick district, so called because it extends into both Reno and Sedgwick Counties in Kansas.
Talking about school districts is cute. Especially in states where each county has a single school district.
NJ has 599 school districts. NJ also only has 564 municipalities. (Both numbers are down as a few school districts and municipalities have consolidated or merged over the years.) 1 of those school districts serves students in two counties.
Growing up, I went to one school district from K - 6. Grades 7 - 12 were another school district. And that district also received students from a 2nd K - 6 school district. Only 2 towns were involved, yet 3 districts were served by those 2 towns.
NJ also has around 17 school districts without any students. That's almost 1 per county in of itself.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2023, 09:47:10 PMGrowing up, I went to one school district from K - 6. Grades 7 - 12 were another school district. And that district also received students from a 2nd K - 6 school district. Only 2 towns were involved, yet 3 districts were served by those 2 towns.
Kansas used to have separate school districts for elementary and high schools. I suspect many of these--certainly most of the rural high school districts, but probably also some of the elementary school districts--had just one school per district. Moreover, there used to be what were called ecclesiastical school districts, where churches would maintain grade schools.
In the 1950's, ecclesiastical school districts were ruled to violate separation of church and state and thus forced to secularize. Then, from the late 1950's to the early 1970's, there was a round of school district consolidation where the thousands of existing districts were forced to merge until there are now several hundred, each of which covers all of the K-12 grades. Many small rural high schools were forced to close in favor of new, larger schools, each of which serves multiple communities from a greenfield location. Many Kansans blame this process for hastening rural population collapse.
My mother attended St. Marks elementary school (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7358771,-97.5605763,3a,64.3y,168.13h,83.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sy34NwZLKkpXnCnjIrcpdkQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dy34NwZLKkpXnCnjIrcpdkQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D86.594864%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192) (not in the current building, of course) when it was still part of a Catholic ecclesiastical district (St. Mark's Church is across the street). It has been folded into the post-consolidation Renwick district (Unified School District 267). My paternal grandmother graduated from Gypsum High School (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7077254,-97.4251972,3a,75y,357.14h,90.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smlkGNed7U7QuStNKxV65Dw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in the late 1930's; today's students now go to Southeast of Saline High School (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7109773,-97.5100901,3a,29.6y,177.58h,86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2p8eOW9TUuUfRpSnnGUgCA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
The grade school closest to me was actually first formed in the 1870's on its current site as a rural elementary, though I believe all of the buildings that still stand long postdate World War II.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2023, 10:29:51 AM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2023, 08:21:14 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2023, 06:46:47 AM
Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.
I know you are a bit further east, but I wouldn't say that here in Rochester. The sunset is right around 9PM on the longest day of the year, so if it's a clear evening there's some light until at least 10PM.
Meh, fine, not pitch black, but pretty dark by 9:15.
That's civil twilight territory in Seattle around the solstice. It's not uncommon for some light to be out until 10 pm.
(https://i.imgur.com/3WBUqkc.png)
Yes. July 4, Seattle begins its fireworks show at 10:00 so it can be dark enough. Sucks when July 5 is a working day, because we don't get home until midnight.
I feel like 10pm is more or less the standard fireworks show time in most places. In Utah growing up our shows would always start at 10, by which point it would be an hour and a half after sunset and there would just be a little bit of light near the western horizon.
When I spent the 4th with family in Montana, their show started at 10 despite a sunset time maybe 15 minutes before. It felt way too light to be doing fireworks.
Quote from: US 89 on February 14, 2023, 05:20:10 PM
I feel like 10pm is more or less the standard fireworks show time in most places. In Utah growing up our shows would always start at 10, by which point it would be an hour and a half after sunset and there would just be a little bit of light near the western horizon.
When I spent the 4th with family in Montana, their show started at 10 despite a sunset time maybe 15 minutes before. It felt way too light to be doing fireworks.
Seems that 9pm (or a few moments later) has been more common when living in Florida and Alabama. It's dark right around that time. Weather permitting, people are usually launching something or blowing something up about a half hour before that and probably still right up to 11pm-12am in some cases. Can't stand having to work/fly out early the next morning.
But having been to one celebration in Port Angeles, Washington; I can understand why it's at 10pm.
When we watch shows on PBS with music and fireworks (e.g. A Capitol Fourth from DC) their fireworks start between 9:30 and 9:45 and it's dark there. Here in SE Mich it's still pretty light out.
After sunset here in NJ, which at the 4th of July is usually around 9:15 or so.
Our summer sunsets are pretty early, it's always dark or almost by 9.
This is somewhat pointing out the obvious, but being further north makes a big difference as to how long the transition period from light to dark is in the summer. The further north you go, the longer the twilight periods are. There's even a notable difference between here and NYC, where I was surprised not only by how early the sun set, but also how suddenly it went from sunset to total darkness.
Quote from: GaryV on February 14, 2023, 06:13:56 PM
When we watch shows on PBS with music and fireworks (e.g. A Capitol Fourth from DC) their fireworks start between 9:30 and 9:45 and it's dark there. Here in SE Mich it's still pretty light out.
That's a rerun at 9:30. The live fireworks downtown begin at 9:10 and are done just before 9:30.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 15, 2023, 07:35:59 AM
Quote from: GaryV on February 14, 2023, 06:13:56 PM
When we watch shows on PBS with music and fireworks (e.g. A Capitol Fourth from DC) their fireworks start between 9:30 and 9:45 and it's dark there. Here in SE Mich it's still pretty light out.
That's a rerun at 9:30. The live fireworks downtown begin at 9:10 and are done just before 9:30.
That's right. I was thinking it was a 2 hour show, but it's usually 1.5 hours.
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2023, 08:26:16 AM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2023, 08:21:14 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2023, 06:46:47 AM
Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.
I know you are a bit further east, but I wouldn't say that here in Rochester. The sunset is right around 9PM on the longest day of the year, so if it's a clear evening there's some light until at least 10PM.
You need to go north for late sunsets. Winnipeg gets latest sunset at 9.40, Edmonton at 10.07, Anchoradge at 11.40
You don't need to go north. The town I grew up in, in western Kansas, has a 9:18 PM sunset at the end of June, with dusk approaching 10 PM. I have a childhood memory of having to come inside from playing basketball in the church parking lot because it was bedtime.
Here in Wichita, we have nearly two straight months when dusk is after 9:15 PM.
Quote from: kphoger on February 15, 2023, 01:34:00 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2023, 08:26:16 AM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2023, 08:21:14 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2023, 06:46:47 AM
Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.
I know you are a bit further east, but I wouldn't say that here in Rochester. The sunset is right around 9PM on the longest day of the year, so if it's a clear evening there's some light until at least 10PM.
You need to go north for late sunsets. Winnipeg gets latest sunset at 9.40, Edmonton at 10.07, Anchoradge at 11.40
You don't need to go north. The town I grew up in, in western Kansas, has a 9:18 PM sunset at the end of June, with dusk approaching 10 PM. I have a childhood memory of having to come inside from playing basketball in the church parking lot because it was bedtime.
Here in Wichita, we have nearly two straight months when dusk is after 9:15 PM.
I've been to places where
The sun goes down
Each night and never rises
Quote from: kphoger on February 15, 2023, 01:34:00 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2023, 08:26:16 AM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2023, 08:21:14 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2023, 06:46:47 AM
Not sure if I've lived anywhere where it wasn't pitch dark by 9:15 p.m.
I know you are a bit further east, but I wouldn't say that here in Rochester. The sunset is right around 9PM on the longest day of the year, so if it's a clear evening there's some light until at least 10PM.
You need to go north for late sunsets. Winnipeg gets latest sunset at 9.40, Edmonton at 10.07, Anchoradge at 11.40
You don't need to go north. The town I grew up in, in western Kansas, has a 9:18 PM sunset at the end of June, with dusk approaching 10 PM. I have a childhood memory of having to come inside from playing basketball in the church parking lot because it was bedtime.
Here in Wichita, we have nearly two straight months when dusk is after 9:15 PM.
Western edge of a time zone helps too...
Quote from: US 89 on February 15, 2023, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 15, 2023, 01:34:00 PM
You don't need to go north. The town I grew up in, in western Kansas, has a 9:18 PM sunset at the end of June, with dusk approaching 10 PM. I have a childhood memory of having to come inside from playing basketball in the church parking lot because it was bedtime.
Here in Wichita, we have nearly two straight months when dusk is after 9:15 PM.
Western edge of a time zone helps too...
I live 233 miles from the western edge of this time zone.
But yes, nearing the western edge of a time zone helps. For example, Amarillo, 68 miles from the western edge of the time zone, has 11 weeks with dusk after 9:15 PM, and 6 weeks with sunset after 9:00 PM.
You definitely don't need to go north to encounter late sunsets.
This link has lots of great maps on sunrise/sunset times, lengths of days, etc. for US and Canada:
http://us-climate.blogspot.com/2016/06/daylight-twilight-astronomical-maps.html (http://us-climate.blogspot.com/2016/06/daylight-twilight-astronomical-maps.html)
Here's the map on sunset times on summer solstice:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zDrfDE9W0u8/WU4LARqUNhI/AAAAAAAAFSc/KYMLA9qySaoF5BYFkcmK-6781gK-XPIjwCLcBGAs/s640/New_SumSolstice_Sunset.jpg)
Yukon is outdated, it should be all after midnight now. Also, several "spacetime rifts" could be adjusted for territories that don't observe DST (Central/Mountain going around the East side of Saskatchewan instead of West, Mountain/Pacific going around the East side of Sonora and Arizona instead of West), but that is another debate.
Quote from: kphoger on February 15, 2023, 02:49:58 PM
You definitely don't need to go north to encounter late sunsets.
That wasn't my point, by the way. My point was you need to go north for longer twilight periods, which only increase as you go north, and also aren't affected by where you are within a time zone.
Quote from: webny99 on February 15, 2023, 03:16:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 15, 2023, 02:49:58 PM
You definitely don't need to go north to encounter late sunsets.
That wasn't my point, by the way. My point was you need to go north for longer twilight periods, which only increase as you go north, and also aren't affected by where you are within a time zone.
My original reply was to a post by |kalvado|, not you.
Quote from: kphoger on February 15, 2023, 03:20:47 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 15, 2023, 03:16:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 15, 2023, 02:49:58 PM
You definitely don't need to go north to encounter late sunsets.
That wasn't my point, by the way. My point was you need to go north for longer twilight periods, which only increase as you go north, and also aren't affected by where you are within a time zone.
My original reply was to a post by |kalvado|, not you.
Yes, I saw that (hence "by the way"), but figured it was still a distinction worth making.
No part of contiguous US has sunrise after 9:00 am in winter or sunset after 10:00 pm in summer, but Helsinki has both (Latest sunrise 9:25 am, latest sunset 10:50 pm).
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 16, 2023, 09:41:24 AM
No part of contiguous US has sunrise after 9:00 am in winter or sunset after 10:00 pm in summer, but Helsinki has both (Latest sunrise 9:25 am, latest sunset 10:50 pm).
That must be fixed. Helsinki needs to move to NY time zone in summer and in Beijing time zone in winter.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 16, 2023, 09:41:24 AM
No part of contiguous US has sunrise after 9:00 am in winter or sunset after 10:00 pm in summer, but Helsinki has both (Latest sunrise 9:25 am, latest sunset 10:50 pm).
Helsinki is further north than the entire continental US.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 16, 2023, 11:08:39 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 16, 2023, 09:41:24 AM
No part of contiguous US has sunrise after 9:00 am in winter or sunset after 10:00 pm in summer, but Helsinki has both (Latest sunrise 9:25 am, latest sunset 10:50 pm).
Helsinki is further north than the entire continental US.
By whole 11 degrees. A good chunk of US-Canada border is 49th parallel, and Helsinky is a bit past 60 degrees. Anchoradge is a bit further north at 61 degree
Gulfstream is really doing miracles with european climate.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 16, 2023, 09:41:24 AM
No part of contiguous US has sunrise after 9:00 am in winter or sunset after 10:00 pm in summer, but Helsinki has both (Latest sunrise 9:25 am, latest sunset 10:50 pm).
Fortuna, North Dakota (https://goo.gl/maps/2pZzCAyztaafWL1H6), has sunsets after 10 PM for about two weeks in June—July. The closest it gets to 9 AM sunrises, however, is 8:48.
In Oklahoma, west would ne Mountain and east Central.
It's not time to talk about time. We don't have the time.