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E-ZPass on the Mackinac Bridge?

Started by Joe The Dragon, October 19, 2021, 10:09:36 PM

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renegade

Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2021, 09:00:23 PM
This is simply false.  If Michigan residents currently use EZPass, and I am sure a significant number do, it of course is a benefit.  It's also a benefit to those travelling to the state from other places where EZ Pass is used.

Dying on this hill is very strange.
I have never, ever seen a vehicle with Michigan plates using one of those.  I doubt seriously whether any driver from Michigan has ever even thought about it.

I am not the one dying on this hill.  I'm only stating my opinion.  Others want this to be the hill to die on.  I don't give a damn, one way or the other. 

Hope this helps. 
Don’t ask me how I know.  Just understand that I do.


thenetwork

#51
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:21:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2021, 09:00:23 PM
This is simply false.  If Michigan residents currently use EZPass, and I am sure a significant number do, it of course is a benefit.  It's also a benefit to those travelling to the state from other places where EZ Pass is used.

Dying on this hill is very strange.
I have never, ever seen a vehicle with Michigan plates using one of those.  I doubt seriously whether any driver from Michigan has ever even thought about it.

I am not the one dying on this hill.  I'm only stating my opinion.  Others want this to be the hill to die on.  I don't give a damn, one way or the other. 

Hope this helps. 
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed"  lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful.  Dead argument.  Full stop.



EZ-Pass should strongly be considered  as an option for paying tolls/fares for the border crossings at least in the Lower Peninsula.  I'm sure there are plenty of LP'ers who already have EZ-Pass If a lot of their longer east-west travels are out of state (IL/IN/OH/NY).

The majority of the state may not own an Ez-Pass, but I'd be willing g to bet that those first two rows of counties just North of the OH/IN border make up the majority of Michiganders who DO have one.  And with accepting it at the border crossings, it gives the state the opportunity to offer their own version for those east-west travelers who use it mostly for turnpike/toll road/toll way travel and keep the revenue in the state.

Rothman

Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed"  lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful.  Dead argument.  Full stop.

The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it.   :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing.  Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude.  Let it go.  I live here.  You don't.  No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place.  Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me.  If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters.  Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
Michigan taxpayers wouldn't.  It would be the bridge operator that would.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

renegade

#53
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed"  lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful.  Dead argument.  Full stop.

The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it.   :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing.  Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude.  Let it go.  I live here.  You don't.  No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place.  Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me.  If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters.  Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
Michigan taxpayers wouldn't.  It would be the bridge operator that would.
You still seem to think this will not come at the expense of others. 

Feel free to contact the Mackinac Bridge Authority and convince them to implement this perfect system.  If they agree, and then implement said system, then you will have a better chance to Change My Mind. 

https://www.mackinacbridge.org/

At-speed toll collection.  Ha.  Proves my point.  You have never been up here.  Unless you have the ability to jump over other vehicles, there's no place to even put another lane for "at-speed"  toll fare collection.  It's two lanes in each direction, on a causeway, with water on both sides.  Would you also suggest double-decking the bridge just so you can go faster?  How many millions of dollars would you like us to spend so you won't be inconvenienced?

Without a detailed explanation of exactly why we need this, I see  no reason to continue this discussion with you.

:ded:
Don’t ask me how I know.  Just understand that I do.

Rothman



Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 10:50:27 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed"  lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful.  Dead argument.  Full stop.

The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it.   :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing.  Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude.  Let it go.  I live here.  You don't.  No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place.  Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me.  If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters.  Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
Michigan taxpayers wouldn't.  It would be the bridge operator that would.
You still seem to think this will not come at the expense of others. 

Feel free to contact the Mackinac Bridge Authority and convince them to implement this perfect system.  If they agree, and then implement said system, then you will have a better chance to Change My Mind. 

https://www.mackinacbridge.org/

At-speed toll collection.  Ha.  Proves my point.  You have never been up here.  Unless you have the ability to jump over other vehicles, there's no place to even put another lane for "at-speed"  toll fare collection.  It's two lanes in each direction, on a causeway, with water on both sides.  Would you also suggest double-decking the bridge just so you can go faster?  How many millions of dollars would you like us to spend so you won't be inconvenienced?

Without a detailed explanation of exactly why we need this, I see  no reason to continue this discussion with you.

:ded:

Toll plazas can be reconfigured.  It's not about going faster on the bridge - just preventing a stop at the booth.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Terry Shea

Can we put an end to this absolutely stupid discussion?  Hey if it works in your state, great.  Keep in your state!  Nobody here wants it or needs it!    And even if it was wanted or needed, implementing it would be absolutely impossible because there is absolutely no room to add lanes and/or reconfigure toll booths, etc., especially on the Mackinaw City side.  Same with border crossings.  No room to do anything and you're going to have to stop for border control anyway.

Terry Shea

#56
Quote from: thenetwork on November 05, 2021, 09:21:44 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:21:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2021, 09:00:23 PM
This is simply false.  If Michigan residents currently use EZPass, and I am sure a significant number do, it of course is a benefit.  It's also a benefit to those travelling to the state from other places where EZ Pass is used.

Dying on this hill is very strange.
I have never, ever seen a vehicle with Michigan plates using one of those.  I doubt seriously whether any driver from Michigan has ever even thought about it.

I am not the one dying on this hill.  I’m only stating my opinion.  Others want this to be the hill to die on.  I don’t give a damn, one way or the other. 

Hope this helps. 
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct “high-speed” lanes, and there’s still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful.  Dead argument.  Full stop.



EZ-Pass should strongly be considered  as an option for paying tolls/fares for the border crossings at least in the Lower Peninsula.  I'm sure there are plenty of LP'ers who already have EZ-Pass If a lot of their longer east-west travels are out of state (IL/IN/OH/NY).   

The majority of the state may not own an Ez-Pass, but I'd be willing g to bet that those first two rows of counties just North of the OH/IN border make up the majority of Michiganders who DO have one.  And with accepting it at the border crossings, it gives the state the opportunity to offer their own version for those east-west travelers who use it mostly for turnpike/toll road/toll way travel and keep the revenue in the state.
There is absolutely no reason for anyone in Michigan to use the Indiana Toll Road (with the possible exception of those living within 5 or so miles of the Indiana border and well east of the I-94 border crossing) or The Ohio Turnpike until you get east of Cleveland.  Everyone in West Michigan who ventures to the Chicago area use I-94.  Everyone going to Ohio uses I-75 or US-23.  Ohio 2 is the best route to Sandusky and Cleveland from Toledo.  East siders in Michigan going to Fort Wayne or Indianapolis use I-94 to I-69 or pick up US-24 near Toledo.  There is almost literally no reason for anyone in Michigan to ever use a toll road until they get west of Chicago, East of Cleveland or...who knows how far south someone has to go rationalize using a toll facility.

Flint1979

Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2021, 12:16:00 AM


Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 10:50:27 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed"  lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful.  Dead argument.  Full stop.

The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it.   :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing.  Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude.  Let it go.  I live here.  You don't.  No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place.  Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me.  If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters.  Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
Michigan taxpayers wouldn't.  It would be the bridge operator that would.
You still seem to think this will not come at the expense of others. 

Feel free to contact the Mackinac Bridge Authority and convince them to implement this perfect system.  If they agree, and then implement said system, then you will have a better chance to Change My Mind. 

https://www.mackinacbridge.org/

At-speed toll collection.  Ha.  Proves my point.  You have never been up here.  Unless you have the ability to jump over other vehicles, there's no place to even put another lane for "at-speed"  toll fare collection.  It's two lanes in each direction, on a causeway, with water on both sides.  Would you also suggest double-decking the bridge just so you can go faster?  How many millions of dollars would you like us to spend so you won't be inconvenienced?

Without a detailed explanation of exactly why we need this, I see  no reason to continue this discussion with you.

:ded:

Toll plazas can be reconfigured.  It's not about going faster on the bridge - just preventing a stop at the booth.
Stopping at the booth isn't a problem at all on the Mackinac Bridge. The bridge only gets about 11,000 VPD so what exactly is the problem?

Flint1979

Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 12:53:52 AM
Can we put an end to this absolutely stupid discussion?  Hey if it works in your state, great.  Keep in your state!  Nobody here wants it or needs it!    And even if it was wanted or needed, implementing it would be absolutely impossible because there is absolutely no room to add lanes and/or reconfigure toll booths, etc., especially on the Mackinaw City side.  Same with border crossings.  No room to do anything and you're going to have to stop for border control anyway.
Well there wouldn't be any toll booths on the Mackinaw City side as it is now but I'm against it anyway because it really doesn't serve a need in our state. We have one toll bridge connecting two parts of the state and it's not like a vast majority of the state travels on the bridge on a daily basis. I probably go up to the U.P. 3-4 times a year and I usually stay up there for a week or two at a time when I go as I have a place in Cedarville about 40 minutes from the bridge. And that is a good point about the border crossings, it's not like it's really going to save you any time when you have to stop at customs anyway.

Flint1979

Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 05:36:30 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on November 05, 2021, 09:21:44 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:21:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2021, 09:00:23 PM
This is simply false.  If Michigan residents currently use EZPass, and I am sure a significant number do, it of course is a benefit.  It's also a benefit to those travelling to the state from other places where EZ Pass is used.

Dying on this hill is very strange.
I have never, ever seen a vehicle with Michigan plates using one of those.  I doubt seriously whether any driver from Michigan has ever even thought about it.

I am not the one dying on this hill.  I'm only stating my opinion.  Others want this to be the hill to die on.  I don't give a damn, one way or the other. 

Hope this helps. 
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed"  lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful.  Dead argument.  Full stop.



EZ-Pass should strongly be considered  as an option for paying tolls/fares for the border crossings at least in the Lower Peninsula.  I'm sure there are plenty of LP'ers who already have EZ-Pass If a lot of their longer east-west travels are out of state (IL/IN/OH/NY).   

The majority of the state may not own an Ez-Pass, but I'd be willing g to bet that those first two rows of counties just North of the OH/IN border make up the majority of Michiganders who DO have one.  And with accepting it at the border crossings, it gives the state the opportunity to offer their own version for those east-west travelers who use it mostly for turnpike/toll road/toll way travel and keep the revenue in the state.
There is absolutely no reason for anyone in Michigan to use the Indiana Toll Road (with the possible exception of those living within 5 or so miles of the Indiana border and well east of the I-94 border crossing) or The Ohio Turnpike until you get east of Cleveland.  Everyone in West Michigan who ventures to the Chicago area use I-94.  Everyone going to Ohio uses I-75 or US-23.  Ohio 2 is the best route to Sandusky and Cleveland from Toledo.  East siders in Michigan going to Fort Wayne or Indianapolis use I-94 to I-69 or pick up US-24 near Toledo.  There is almost literally no reason for anyone in Michigan to ever use a toll road until they get west of Chicago, East of Cleveland or...who knows how far south someone has to go rationalize using a toll facility.
Right. For east-west travel that far south in the state I would use US-12 or go into Ohio or Indiana and use US-20. OH-2, US-20, US-12, US-30 and others are useful for shunpiking in Indiana and Ohio.

JREwing78

Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 05:36:30 AMThere is absolutely no reason for anyone in Michigan to use the Indiana Toll Road (with the possible exception of those living within 5 or so miles of the Indiana border and well east of the I-94 border crossing) or The Ohio Turnpike until you get east of Cleveland

While true that Michigan folks don't *have* to use either roadway, I will say from personal experience making about a dozen trips to Lansing a year that both have their uses. Depending on the time of day, the season, or what traffic cluster**** is on I-94 in Michigan, I'll use the Toll Road about 5 or 6 times a year. It's often not the shortest way, but it beats sitting for hours in traffic or navigating the I-94 ice rink around jackknifing semis after yet another lake-effect snow squall west of Kalamazoo.

Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 05:36:30 AMEveryone in West Michigan who ventures to the Chicago area use I-94.

No. Not everyone. May seem ridiculous to you, but I-90 into Chicago is rarely congested. If your destination is downtown or east of the Tri-State, it's frequently worth the toll to hop on the Toll Road. And if there's an incident on the Tri-State, going through downtown Chicago is usually quicker.

Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 05:36:30 AMOhio 2 is the best route to Sandusky and Cleveland from Toledo.

No, it's not. I made that drive from Lansing roughly 50 times while my girlfriend lived in Cleveland. OH-2 is a nice change of pace, but it's not the fastest or even the safest way across that part of Ohio. The 2-lane stretch east of Port Clinton is a slog and clogged with traffic. Closer to Oregon, there's a gauntlet of stoplights to fight through. OH-579 cuts a few stoplights, but now it's getting complicated. It's 10 minutes quicker to take the Ohio Turnpike, and less of a mental load.

OH-2 isn't even the quickest non-toll option to Sandusky, per Google Maps. That honor falls to I-280 -> OH-420 -> OH-20 -> US-6, at one mile and one minute shorter, with the only 2-lane stretch the 17 miles of US-6 v.s. nearly 30 for OH-2.

Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 05:36:30 AMThere is almost literally no reason for anyone in Michigan to ever use a toll road until they get west of Chicago, East of Cleveland or...who knows how far south someone has to go rationalize using a toll facility.

You can shunpike all of the toll roads easily enough. I concede that point. But had EZ-Pass been on the Ohio Turnpike 15 years ago, I would've had a transponder. And despite living in Wisconsin now and having non-toll options to get basically anywhere I need to, I have an EZ-Pass (in no small part because in Illinois it's half-fare v.s. pay-by-plate) and pay the roughly $20 a round trip to Michigan to use the toll roads because they're wayyyyy faster - like 2-3 hours faster one way. If I time my departure correctly and don't have to stop, I can make Lansing in 4 hours flat from Janesville. Not gonna happen without paying tolls.

What does all of this has to do with EZ-Pass on the Mackinac Bridge? Basically nothing. I'm sure whatever incremental increase in tag payments for tolls would happen with it was not enough to matter at all to the Bridge Authority. And outside of special events, throughput at the toll booth is a non-issue. I'm sure larger concerns (or, more accurately, larger expenses) associated with implementing EZ-Pass is why the Bridge Authority doesn't bother. And, to acknowledge Terry's ultimate point, there's no critical mass of EZ-Pass users in Michigan that would compel its use over something else.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:21:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2021, 09:00:23 PM
This is simply false.  If Michigan residents currently use EZPass, and I am sure a significant number do, it of course is a benefit.  It's also a benefit to those travelling to the state from other places where EZ Pass is used.

Dying on this hill is very strange.
I have never, ever seen a vehicle with Michigan plates using one of those.  I doubt seriously whether any driver from Michigan has ever even thought about it.

I am not the one dying on this hill.  I'm only stating my opinion.  Others want this to be the hill to die on.  I don't give a damn, one way or the other. 

Hope this helps. 


You have never seen a Michigan car with an iPass?  (Fully EZ Pass compatible)  Because I know *I* have.

Rothman

Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2021, 06:15:33 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2021, 12:16:00 AM


Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 10:50:27 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed"  lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful.  Dead argument.  Full stop.

The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it.   :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing.  Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude.  Let it go.  I live here.  You don't.  No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place.  Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me.  If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters.  Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
Michigan taxpayers wouldn't.  It would be the bridge operator that would.
You still seem to think this will not come at the expense of others. 

Feel free to contact the Mackinac Bridge Authority and convince them to implement this perfect system.  If they agree, and then implement said system, then you will have a better chance to Change My Mind. 

https://www.mackinacbridge.org/

At-speed toll collection.  Ha.  Proves my point.  You have never been up here.  Unless you have the ability to jump over other vehicles, there's no place to even put another lane for "at-speed"  toll fare collection.  It's two lanes in each direction, on a causeway, with water on both sides.  Would you also suggest double-decking the bridge just so you can go faster?  How many millions of dollars would you like us to spend so you won't be inconvenienced?

Without a detailed explanation of exactly why we need this, I see  no reason to continue this discussion with you.

:ded:

Toll plazas can be reconfigured.  It's not about going faster on the bridge - just preventing a stop at the booth.
Stopping at the booth isn't a problem at all on the Mackinac Bridge. The bridge only gets about 11,000 VPD so what exactly is the problem?
Not stopping is more convenient than stopping.

I am not seeing the harm done by implementing E-ZPass.  Those opposed to the idea haven't laid out why it would be bad, outside of a mistaken notion that it would somehow cost MI taxpayers more in taxes.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Rothman

"Not needed" is a pretty low bar.  By that standard, very few innovations would be worth it from that standpoint.  Again, there is no harm in implementing E-ZPass at the brige and it would be a simple improvement with some level of benefit.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

rhen_var

Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed"  lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful.  Dead argument.  Full stop.

The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it.   :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing.  Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude.  Let it go.  I live here.  You don't.  No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place.  Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me.  If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters.  Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
I have lived in Michigan my whole life, I went to MTU and thus lived in the UP for 4 years.  I've used the bridge many, many times.  I have an EZ-Pass and would have loved if I could have just used that instead because that means I don't have to fumble with my wallet while driving or wait at the gate to get cash, and instead could just drive on through.  Your argument that not a single person in the state or who uses the bridge wants this is literally just not true.

Flint1979

It is not that big of a deal to stop, pay and go really. It's pretty well known that it costs $4 to cross the bridge so you can have your money ready well ahead of time. Surveys have been done and have shown that very few Mackinac Bridge customers use other transponders. Why would they use a transponder that very few of their customers have?

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2021, 09:25:21 PM
It is not that big of a deal to stop, pay and go really. It's pretty well known that it costs $4 to cross the bridge so you can have your money ready well ahead of time. Surveys have been done and have shown that very few Mackinac Bridge customers use other transponders. Why would they use a transponder that very few of their customers have?


This question has been answered multiple times. Why don't you read the last few pages and report back.

vdeane

Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on November 05, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
Only $25
For some, "only $25" is the choice between food and shelter.  Surprised this argument has been going on as long as it has.

You're also not going to be able to drive through the tollbooth at 75 mph, so why bother?  Stop for ten seconds, hand over four bucks, then drive on and enjoy the scenery.  EZPass is only good for people in a hurry.
Even just drviing through a booth at 10 mph is far faster and more convienent than the following:
1. Wait in line behind everyone else.
2. For those of us who don't have passengers to get the money, holding up the line to get out our wallet and money.
3. For those of us who don't use cash often, having to stuff a large amount of change back into our wallet after breaking a 20 (and then later having to find some way to get rid of the change that makes said wallet feel inconveniently thick).

Trust me, I know.  When I went off to college, getting E-ZPass was one of the first things I did because I didn't want to be fumbling with cash while driving myself on the Thruway.  Family gatherings gave me the ability to compare/contrast the cash experience, as my parents didn't get E-ZPass until the Thruway went AET.

Also, this idea that toll plazas would need to be reconfigured is ludicrous, to the point where I question whether the people against E-ZPass in this thread have ever driven on roads like the Ohio Turnpike, PA Turnpike, NJ Turnpike, or the Thruway prior to AET implementation.  They could just switch the MacPass lanes to E-ZPass.  Easy peasy.  In fact, I would think it would have been easier and cheaper than creating their own proprietary transponder that works nowhere else, which is what they did.  Maybe that's why MacPass is more expensive than even the 407's transponder.

Come to think of it, Buffalo was the area in NY (with electronic tolling) with the lowest E-ZPass usage rate, and I want to say that the Ohio Turnpike was the last major toll facility east of the Mississippi (and possibly the whole country) to implement a transponder.  Plus the Wabash Bridge was famous for having its own proprietary transponder despite being in E-ZPass territory.  Is there some Midwest cultural thing against electronic tolling and interoperability?

I would hope that the Macinac Bridge is not like the Atlantic Beach Bridge, which has refused E-ZPass mainly because they're a corrupt political patronage operation that doesn't want anyone to know what their financials look like.  That, and the people on the island see the tolls as a way to keep out-of-towners out (among a bunch of other measures, like parking restrictions and implementing a maze of one-way streets).  They're so obstinate against E-ZPass, they're even considering going AET with no transponder - bill by mail only (presumably their commuter decals would still somehow be accepted).

Do you guys think your lifestyle is threatened or something?  Want to use cash?  You don't have to get E-ZPass.  Why force those of us who would rather use E-ZPass to use cash instead just because you hate change (pun not intended)?  I couldn't care less if you want to be a Luddite or not, I just don't want to be inconvenienced as a result.

Honestly, I wish every single toll facility on the continent took E-ZPass (and also that any remaining cash-only or cash-only-below-a-certain-amount places would take credit cards; cash is SO inconvenient, though bill by mail is worse).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

TheHighwayMan3561

Why not just get the Mackinac transponder too if this means so much?
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

vdeane

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 06, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Why not just get the Mackinac transponder too if this means so much?
1. It doesn't make much sense to get a transponder for a one-off trip, and carrying a bunch of transponders is inconvenient in and of itself.  Such is there reason why Congress created an interoperability mandate in the first place.
2. As mentioned before, MacPass has ludicrously high fees to create an account.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Terry Shea

Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2021, 11:14:34 AM
"Not needed" is a pretty low bar.  By that standard, very few innovations would be worth it from that standpoint.  Again, there is no harm in implementing E-ZPass at the brige and it would be a simple improvement with some level of benefit.

Well hey, while we're at it, why not build a bridge across Lake Michigan between Muskegon and Milwaukee, or Muskegon to Chicago, or both?  The cost would be astronomical, the tolls would be astronomical, it would be extremely impractical and absolutely unnecessary, but so what?  The important thing is that you could put E-Z Pass on  the Wisconsin and/or Illinois sides and these cheeseheads and Illinoisites would get orgasms about paying tolls because they don't actually feel like they're paying a toll with E-Z Pass. :)  But in all seriousness, there is a big drawback to implementing E-Z Pass on The Mackinac Bridge: Once that happens and E-Z Pass is implemented, Our state government, especially under its present leadership would say "well since we now have E-Z Pass let's start tolling every major freeway."

Terry Shea

Quote from: rhen_var on November 06, 2021, 06:33:00 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed"  lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful.  Dead argument.  Full stop.

The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it.   :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing.  Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude.  Let it go.  I live here.  You don't.  No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place.  Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me.  If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters.  Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
I have lived in Michigan my whole life, I went to MTU and thus lived in the UP for 4 years.  I've used the bridge many, many times.  I have an EZ-Pass and would have loved if I could have just used that instead because that means I don't have to fumble with my wallet while driving or wait at the gate to get cash, and instead could just drive on through.  Your argument that not a single person in the state or who uses the bridge wants this is literally just not true.
Wow!  1 out of 10 million.  We stand corrected.

Terry Shea

Quote from: vdeane on November 06, 2021, 11:14:54 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on November 05, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
Only $25
For some, "only $25" is the choice between food and shelter.  Surprised this argument has been going on as long as it has.

You're also not going to be able to drive through the tollbooth at 75 mph, so why bother?  Stop for ten seconds, hand over four bucks, then drive on and enjoy the scenery.  EZPass is only good for people in a hurry.
Even just drviing through a booth at 10 mph is far faster and more convienent than the following:
1. Wait in line behind everyone else.
2. For those of us who don't have passengers to get the money, holding up the line to get out our wallet and money.
3. For those of us who don't use cash often, having to stuff a large amount of change back into our wallet after breaking a 20 (and then later having to find some way to get rid of the change that makes said wallet feel inconveniently thick).

Trust me, I know.  When I went off to college, getting E-ZPass was one of the first things I did because I didn't want to be fumbling with cash while driving myself on the Thruway.  Family gatherings gave me the ability to compare/contrast the cash experience, as my parents didn't get E-ZPass until the Thruway went AET.

Also, this idea that toll plazas would need to be reconfigured is ludicrous, to the point where I question whether the people against E-ZPass in this thread have ever driven on roads like the Ohio Turnpike, PA Turnpike, NJ Turnpike, or the Thruway prior to AET implementation.  They could just switch the MacPass lanes to E-ZPass.  Easy peasy.  In fact, I would think it would have been easier and cheaper than creating their own proprietary transponder that works nowhere else, which is what they did.  Maybe that's why MacPass is more expensive than even the 407's transponder.

Come to think of it, Buffalo was the area in NY (with electronic tolling) with the lowest E-ZPass usage rate, and I want to say that the Ohio Turnpike was the last major toll facility east of the Mississippi (and possibly the whole country) to implement a transponder.  Plus the Wabash Bridge was famous for having its own proprietary transponder despite being in E-ZPass territory.  Is there some Midwest cultural thing against electronic tolling and interoperability?

I would hope that the Macinac Bridge is not like the Atlantic Beach Bridge, which has refused E-ZPass mainly because they're a corrupt political patronage operation that doesn't want anyone to know what their financials look like.  That, and the people on the island see the tolls as a way to keep out-of-towners out (among a bunch of other measures, like parking restrictions and implementing a maze of one-way streets).  They're so obstinate against E-ZPass, they're even considering going AET with no transponder - bill by mail only (presumably their commuter decals would still somehow be accepted).

Do you guys think your lifestyle is threatened or something?  Want to use cash?  You don't have to get E-ZPass.  Why force those of us who would rather use E-ZPass to use cash instead just because you hate change (pun not intended)?  I couldn't care less if you want to be a Luddite or not, I just don't want to be inconvenienced as a result.

Honestly, I wish every single toll facility on the continent took E-ZPass (and also that any remaining cash-only or cash-only-below-a-certain-amount places would take credit cards; cash is SO inconvenient, though bill by mail is worse).
Well if that's true then you should very well know that during the week there are absolutely no lines at the toll booths and on summer weekends-especially holiday weekends-traffic is going to be backed up for miles and your E-Z Pass isn't going to get you through that parking lot any quicker.  In fact, since there is no room to expand or add lanes, a few of the toll booth lanes would have to be dedicated to E-Z Pass, which means fewer facilities to handle the paying of tolls, which means longer waits and even  longer backups!

Flint1979

Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 06, 2021, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2021, 09:25:21 PM
It is not that big of a deal to stop, pay and go really. It's pretty well known that it costs $4 to cross the bridge so you can have your money ready well ahead of time. Surveys have been done and have shown that very few Mackinac Bridge customers use other transponders. Why would they use a transponder that very few of their customers have?


This question has been answered multiple times. Why don't you read the last few pages and report back.
Then why is the discussion still going on?

GaryV

Quote from: vdeane on November 06, 2021, 11:19:35 PM
1. It doesn't make much sense to get a transponder for a one-off trip,
The same argument can be made for the majority of Michigan drivers who might travel on an out of state toll road once every 2 or 3 years.

And I forget the exact number, but an incredibly high number of Michigan residents have never been across the Mackinac Bridge.  There just doesn't seem to be a demand for EZ Pass.




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