Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract

[Alps]

I was just looking at the new exit number list - while Mass. DOT plans to continue the mile-based exits from I-395 along I-290, they plan to "reset" the mile-based exits along I-295.  Wouldn't it make more sense to renumber the exits on I-295 to 25 (US-1) and 27 (I-95) instead of 2 and 4?

I asked this exact question in person. She said that it was so that it's clear that you're crossing a state line.

But that apparently doesn't matter with I-395? M'eh.

[KEVIN_224]

Imagine if the road just switched from I-395 to I-290 at the Connecticut/Massachusetts state line?

[jp the roadgeek]

Imagine if the road just switched from I-395 to I-290 at the Connecticut/Massachusetts state line?

I say just redirect I-395 onto SR 695 and have I-290 assume the rest of 395 north of there. 

[Alps]

Imagine if the road just switched from I-395 to I-290 at the Connecticut/Massachusetts state line?

I say just redirect I-395 onto SR 695 and have I-290 assume the rest of 395 north of there. 

Since this isn't Fictional, that won't work because CT and RI have no interest in traffic using 695 as a through link. If you're on 95, they want you on 95 to Providence. If you're on 395, you can make any number of ways to Providence, but that might overload 6 or drag people off the freeway who weren't expecting it to end. I've always considered I-290 to begin at the toll plaza and then "join" the I-395 freeway. That's not the technical definition, I don't think, but it at least provides a cleaner resolution.

[Magical Trevor]

Imagine if the road just switched from I-395 to I-290 at the Connecticut/Massachusetts state line?

I say just redirect I-395 onto SR 695 and have I-290 assume the rest of 395 north of there. 

Since this isn't Fictional, that won't work because CT and RI have no interest in traffic using 695 as a through link. If you're on 95, they want you on 95 to Providence. If you're on 395, you can make any number of ways to Providence, but that might overload 6 or drag people off the freeway who weren't expecting it to end. I've always considered I-290 to begin at the toll plaza and then "join" the I-395 freeway. That's not the technical definition, I don't think, but it at least provides a cleaner resolution.

I get what you're saying, but of course now the plaza is no more and that "first half mile of 290" is just a mess of ramps, rough bridges, and poorly-laid-out lane markings (the amount of people coming off of the Pike and slowly meandering out of the right lane prematurely because they think it is an "exit only" to 12 South is astounding - and yeah, maintaining a breakdown area is nice but the second lane exiting from Eastbound 90 is certainly missed).

A few pages ago I suggested the same as Kevin just did.

[DJ Particle]

I don't mind I-290 continuing I-395's numbers, but they really should just have I-290 continue I-395's mileage rather than their "dual milepost" idea.  Seems like they're going for the worst of both worlds with their plan.

My guess is they're considering numbering the whole thing I-395, but haven't come to a final decision yet.  Though, if they were to give the whole route one number, at that point, wouldn't an even-numbered 3di be more appropriate, since it would then start at I-95 and end at I-495?

[vdeane]

There have been statements to that effect, but I don't see how that drives a need for dual mileposts.  There's no need for "dual" mileposts even if it stays I-290 (which I would prefer to avoid orphaning I-190), because continuing mileage from another route is allowed (see: I-276).

[The Ghostbuster]

Does anyone know for sure if Interstate 290 is planned to be renumbered to Interstate 395, or is this just speculation because the 290 exits will be a continuation of 395's?

[shadyjay]

If CT and RI don't want SSR 695/US 6 to be used as a through route, then why do they sign it as a thru route?  From I-395, the destination is "PROVIDENCE", and this actually is referred to on the I-395 North control point if coming from CT 2 East in Norwich.  Heck, way back in the greater Hartford area, I-384 East has a control point of PROVIDENCE even though the limited-access highway only extends out for about 8 miles before becoming "Suicide Six".  And in RI, US 6 West exit from I-95 gets a control point of HARTFORD.  Sounds like a thru route to me.  Sure, maybe more would follow it if it was signed "I-395 NORTH - PROVIDENCE" and I-395 north of Exit 35 became I-290.  I'm all for that renumbering.  Maybe on the thru signage, leave out "I-395 NORTH" and just have the signs say "TO 6 EAST/PROVIDENCE" as they do now. 

As far as I-395 replacing I-290, that seems to make sense to me as well.  Yes, it does orphan I-190, perhaps make it part of an extended MA 146, with a brief co-signing?  Or renumber all of I-395/I-290 to I-695. 

As for I-295 having its numbers reset at the RI/MA state line, that makes sense to me.  In my opinion, a route should reset numbers at the state line.  Heck, it still erks me why the Merritt Parkway didn't get its exits renumbered when signs were changed.  The contiguous exit numbering with NY's Hutch seemed cool, until the 90s when NY renumbered its exits, so NY/CT Exit 27 became NY Exit 30S/CT Exit 27. 

[bob7374]

Does anyone know for sure if Interstate 290 is planned to be renumbered to Interstate 395, or is this just speculation because the 290 exits will be a continuation of 395's?

MassDOT is considering it. See comment #474 of this thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16734.450

[RobbieL2415]

I don't mind I-290 continuing I-395's numbers, but they really should just have I-290 continue I-395's mileage rather than their "dual milepost" idea.  Seems like they're going for the worst of both worlds with their plan.

For the billionth time, this could be avoided if I-395 became I-290.

[vdeane]

I don't mind I-290 continuing I-395's numbers, but they really should just have I-290 continue I-395's mileage rather than their "dual milepost" idea.  Seems like they're going for the worst of both worlds with their plan.

For the billionth time, this could be avoided if I-395 became I-290.

It could also be avoided if MA would see the light and do the mileage the same way PA does I-276.

[bob7374]

Was going through the MassDOT structural signing project listings this morning and noticed that the entry for the exit renumbering project had changed in the Design category. Instead of a statewide contract, the entry now is for one covering Districts 1-3 only. I assume another contract covering Districts 4-6 will be listed soon. Districts 1 to 3 cover the western and central parts of the state. The contract would thus cover the conversion of I-91, I-84, I-395, I-190 and MA 146. Other routes that are partially in District 3 include I-290 and US 3 (parts of which are in District 4).

I am assuming any route where the project's start (at the northern and eastern end) is not in Districts 1-3 will not be included in this contract (this would be I-290, along with I-90 and MA 2). Will the US 3 renumbering be started under this contract, or wait until the next one? The new exit renumbering project listing still lists Summer 2020 as a start date.

[roadman]

Was going through the MassDOT structural signing project listings this morning and noticed that the entry for the exit renumbering project had changed in the Design category. Instead of a statewide contract, the entry now is for one covering Districts 1-3 only. I assume another contract covering Districts 4-6 will be listed soon. Districts 1 to 3 cover the western and central parts of the state. The contract would thus cover the conversion of I-91, I-84, I-395, I-190 and MA 146. Other routes that are partially in District 3 include I-290 and US 3 (parts of which are in District 4).

I am assuming any route where the project's start (at the northern and eastern end) is not in Districts 1-3 will not be included in this contract (this would be I-290, along with I-90 and MA 2). Will the US 3 renumbering be started under this contract, or wait until the next one? The new exit renumbering project listing still lists Summer 2020 as a start date.

That is correct Bob.  The original contract has been changed to now cover Districts 1, 2, and 3 only.  A second contract will cover Districts 4, 5, and 6, and a third contract will cover the full length of the Mass Pike/I-90.  Routes such as I-495 and MA 3 that span multiple contracts will be completed end to end under one of the contracts, and not split up by District.  Construction on all the contracts, which are to be advertised for bids in April and May, is still scheduled to begin in mid-Summer of this year.

[The Ghostbuster]

On the signs that have already been replaced (e.g. Interstate 90/Mass. Turnpike, US 6), will the new numbers be stapled onto the existing numbers? On Highway 30 here in Madison, the previously unnumbered exit signs had numbered signs stapled over them, as can be seen here: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1068176,-89.328986,3a,75y,264.75h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6kmaJfzc-uNVrcS_gh5Org!2e0!7i13312!8i6656.

[hotdogPi]

On the signs that have already been replaced (e.g. Interstate 90/Mass. Turnpike, US 6), will the new numbers be stapled onto the existing numbers? On Highway 30 here in Madison, the previously unnumbered exit signs had numbered signs stapled over them, as can be seen here: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1068176,-89.328986,3a,75y,264.75h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6kmaJfzc-uNVrcS_gh5Org!2e0!7i13312!8i6656.

Yes. The replaced signs on I-495 north of Exit 41 have empty space that is made to hold three digits.

[bob7374]

Was going through the MassDOT structural signing project listings this morning and noticed that the entry for the exit renumbering project had changed in the Design category. Instead of a statewide contract, the entry now is for one covering Districts 1-3 only. I assume another contract covering Districts 4-6 will be listed soon. Districts 1 to 3 cover the western and central parts of the state. The contract would thus cover the conversion of I-91, I-84, I-395, I-190 and MA 146. Other routes that are partially in District 3 include I-290 and US 3 (parts of which are in District 4).

I am assuming any route where the project's start (at the northern and eastern end) is not in Districts 1-3 will not be included in this contract (this would be I-290, along with I-90 and MA 2). Will the US 3 renumbering be started under this contract, or wait until the next one? The new exit renumbering project listing still lists Summer 2020 as a start date.

That is correct Bob.  The original contract has been changed to now cover Districts 1, 2, and 3 only.  A second contract will cover Districts 4, 5, and 6, and a third contract will cover the full length of the Mass Pike/I-90.  Routes such as I-495 and MA 3 that span multiple contracts will be completed end to end under one of the contracts, and not split up by District.  Construction on all the contracts, which are to be advertised for bids in April and May, is still scheduled to begin in mid-Summer of this year.

The other 2 contracts have been posted on the MassDOT project listings for Structural Signing. Therefore, the 3 exit renumbering contracts are:  610646-Districts 1-3, 610699-Districts 4-6, and 610700-I-90/Mass Pike.

I went to the public meeting on the renumbering project in Boston held last night. I was the only non-MassDOT person in the room along with 2 presenters, 3 other members of the project team, and an interested sign engineer. I asked about the Cape Cod US 6 numbering, they insist that the numbers listed will not change, but that US 6 will be the last highway renumbered. Meanwhile, the next public meeting will be in Hyannis on Feb. 25. I assume more people will show up for that meeting, will MassDOT hold firm after that? I also asked if they knew which highway in the Boston area would be the first to be converted, they would not commit saying that it depends on which highway corridor is chosen by the contractor. Since there will be multiple contracts, there could be more than one route having their exit numbers changed at the same time. The completion date is still stated to be in the spring of 2021. They had cards with the new exit numbers for each route available as handouts. The information is the same as those on the website, meaning if there are still errors or typos online, they are also on the cards. The I-95 card, for example, lists the exits for Kenrdick St in Needham.

[bob7374]

A slightly larger crowd that in Boston apparently appeared at Tuesday night's MassDOT exit renumbering meeting in Hyannis. All but 1, should we be surprised, were against the proposed renumbering of US 6. Here's the Cape Cod Times take on the meeting: https://www.capecodtimes.com/news/20200226/plan-to-renumber-route-6-exits-gets-little-support

[The Ghostbuster]

Sometimes people get too comfortable with the status quo, and fiercely resist any changes to it. I think MassDOT should just renumber the exits and be done with it.

[abqtraveler]

A slightly larger crowd that in Boston apparently appeared at Tuesday night's MassDOT exit renumbering meeting in Hyannis. All but 1, should we be surprised, were against the proposed renumbering of US 6. Here's the Cape Cod Times take on the meeting: https://www.capecodtimes.com/news/20200226/plan-to-renumber-route-6-exits-gets-little-support

If the residents of Cape Cod are so concerned about exits on the Mid Cape Highway being renumbered to reflect US-6 mileage from the Rhode Island border, vice the Bourne Bridge, here's a novel idea:  overlay a new state highway designation along the Mid Cape Highway from the Bourne Bridge to the Orleans rotary, and in-so doing the Mid Cape Highway would be co-signed as US-6/MA-XX (XX being whatever route number MassDOT assigns to the road). Then re-number exits according to MA-XX mileage from the Bourne Bridge. Problem solved.

[vdeane]

Of course, they'd have to redo the mileposts to do that, since currently they measure from where US 6 crosses into MA from RI.  Anyone want to bet that even THAT would trigger uproar on the Cape?

[DJ Particle]

A slightly larger crowd that in Boston apparently appeared at Tuesday night's MassDOT exit renumbering meeting in Hyannis. All but 1, should we be surprised, were against the proposed renumbering of US 6. Here's the Cape Cod Times take on the meeting: https://www.capecodtimes.com/news/20200226/plan-to-renumber-route-6-exits-gets-little-support

If the residents of Cape Cod are so concerned about exits on the Mid Cape Highway being renumbered to reflect US-6 mileage from the Rhode Island border, vice the Bourne Bridge, here's a novel idea:  overlay a new state highway designation along the Mid Cape Highway from the Bourne Bridge to the Orleans rotary, and in-so doing the Mid Cape Highway would be co-signed as US-6/MA-XX (XX being whatever route number MassDOT assigns to the road). Then re-number exits according to MA-XX mileage from the Bourne Bridge. Problem solved.

Nope....they want their 1-12.

Remember...Cape Codders fear change.

[DJ Particle]

Rep. Sarah Peake, D-Provincetown. “We think this will be more confusing, it detracts from the character of Cape Cod and we would really like to see an exemption for Cape Cod.”

I knew it...the famous "it'll ruin the Cape's character" argument that means absolutely nothing.

NO ONE (except maybe us roadgeeks) GOES TO THE CAPE TO SEE THE FREEWAY!!!     It's not like Route 6 is any kind of tourist attraction in and of itself!

State Rep. William Crocker, R-Barnstable, agreed, saying it was an example of fixing something that wasn’t broken.

The exits are not numbered by mileposts...  ergo, it's broken.  Fix it! 

and few people care how far they are from Rhode Island.

It's not about that.  It's about the motorist who sees "Exit 55" and won't have to guess anymore how far it is to Exit 89.

I grew up on Cape Cod.  I know how stubborn they can get, and how entitled they will act.  It's one of the reasons my parents got the hell out of there as soon as they sold Days' Cottages.

Someone needs to take all these entitled Codders and verbally smack them all with the reality stick. "The world doesn't revolve around YOU!"

[PHLBOS]

Maybe the Cape needs to secede from either the Commonwealth (become a 51st state) or the nation if they're that adamant about those sequential Mid-Cape Highway interchange numbers.

[RobbieL2415]

MassDOT needs an ultimatum.  Like, if they don't get the renumbered exits then they'll decommission US 6 east of Bourne.