Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract

[ProfBrad]

So now that we are past Labor Day hopefully work will commence in the next couple weeks.

[The Ghostbuster]

The sooner the renumbering begins, the better. I think it should have happened on its original 2016-2018 timeline, but Mass DOT caved to the Cape Coders. Is it possible the renumbering might be postponed again, despite what they said last November that it will go forward?

[shadyjay]

Drove I-91 in its entirety over the weekend and didn't notice any work... and didn't expect to yet... to early in the contract.

I am curious as to where the exit number will go on those railroad station signs for Northampton and Greenfield.... up top, or below Amtrak?  See image below:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3011295,-72.6286814,3a,15y,28.41h,91.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdtxpQPpCYPqj4JN3lzTGhg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[ProfBrad]

Maybe the newmassexits site should change the wording to a Fall 2020 project start...it is fall in less than 2 weeks.

[bob7374]

Just got an e-mail from MassDOT regarding the exit renumbering project. First, they're going to hold a virtual public meeting about the project on Sept. 24. Second, the project is not starting now until mid-October, and third the project will now be completed sometime next summer. A link to register for the meeting is now in the MassDOT Exit Renumbering Site:
https://www.newmassexits.com/

[bob7374]

The MassDOT structural signing projects under construction list was updated to include the exit renumbering contract for the Mass Pike, the Notice to Proceed was given on August 25. Still not listing for the first contract covering Districts 1-3 (and I-495 and MA 2).

[5foot14]

According to this article,  conversion is set to start October 18th and continue until next summer. Apparently they are starting with MA 140 and then proceeding with the other routes in contract 2 (Eastern MA, excluding MA 2 and I-495). Wonder when they are starting the 1st contract for Western MA?

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/09/21/massachusetts-new-exit-numbers-mileage-construction/amp/

SM-A515U

[The Ghostbuster]

Why start with MA 140? I would have started with Interstates 91, 84 and 395/290.

[hotdogPi]

Why start with MA 140? I would have started with Interstates 91, 84 and 395/290.

My guess: it would reduce confusion between MA 24's exit numbers and MA 140's exit numbers. It's also lightly traveled compared to parts of 91 and 290, which is more ideal for a test run.

[PHLBOS]

Why start with MA 140? I would have started with Interstates 91, 84 and 395/290.

My guess: it would reduce confusion between MA 24's exit numbers and MA 140's exit numbers. It's also lightly traveled compared to parts of 91 and 290, which is more ideal for a test run.

Personally, I would have chosen I-84 to be the first road to make the change.  That highway's only 7 miles long with only 3 interchanges southwest of I-90.

[roadman]

Why start with MA 140? I would have started with Interstates 91, 84 and 395/290.

My guess: it would reduce confusion between MA 24's exit numbers and MA 140's exit numbers. It's also lightly traveled compared to parts of 91 and 290, which is more ideal for a test run.

Personally, I would have chosen I-84 to be the first road to make the change.  That highway's only 7 miles long with only 3 interchanges southwest of I-90.

Just a reminder:  The exit renuimbering project has been divided into three separate contracts.  Not sure why, but the eastern contract was awarded before the western and I-90 contracts were.   I-84 is in the western contract, not the eastern one.

[bob7374]

I participated with about 50 other people (including AARoads Forum's own Roadman) earlier this evening in MassDOT's virtual public meeting about the upcoming Exit Renumbering Project. Highlights: The schedule for the first 3 routes in the District 4-6 contract were announced, MA 140 on October 18, then I-195 to follow probably around the end of October, then MA 25 sometime in mid-November. How well the contractor meets these dates will determine the schedule for the remainder of the routes. The other 2 contracts have also been awarded but will start later. Public meetings at a yet unannounced date will proceed the start of work on the Districts 1-3 (and MA 2 and I-495) and Mass Pike. The project is still to be completed by next summer.

Unsurprisingly, US 6 exit renumbering was the focus of many of the questions afterwards, mostly from Cape Cod officials and citizens. Apparently in  response to complaints about how the proposed old exit number signs would look on their scenic highway, MassDOT will put up green and white old exit number signs along US 6 instead of the yellow and black ones going up everywhere else. Positively, one official said that they know that since many visitors to the Cape come from places with mileage based exits, the exit number change would be a benefit to them. Another though thought mileage for US 6 should start at Provincetown so that exit numbers would retain some meaning for Cape drivers, he was reminded that mileposts have to start at the western border with RI. Another thought the Cape Cod Commission should pay MassDOT to keep the old exit numbers signs up indefinitely. An official from Gloucester wanted to know why the new exit numbers for Route 128 end at current Exit 12 and not with the now former Exits 11-9. He was told that those numbers are no longer used. He shared examples of signs that still have those numbers and MassDOT said it will remove any remaining signs for those 'exits' as part of the renumbering project. Another person had put together a spreadsheet showing that 60% of the new mileage based numbers do not actually correspond to MUTCD specifications in assigning numbers. MassDOT's response is they want to limit as far as possible the number of suffixed exits so not to be too confusing to drivers, this includes not following MUTCD specs regarding continuation of numbers across borders for 3-digit interstate routes. There was even a question about why Massachusetts signs don't use Clearview.

I will continue to monitor the progress of exit renumbering and will plan road trips to cover routes as they are converted to the new system.

[southshore720]

I participated with about 50 other people (including AARoads Forum's own Roadman) earlier this evening in MassDOT's virtual public meeting about the upcoming Exit Renumbering Project. Highlights: The schedule for the first 3 routes in the District 4-6 contract were announced, MA 140 on October 18, then I-195 to follow probably around the end of October, then MA 25 sometime in mid-November. How well the contractor meets these dates will determine the schedule for the remainder of the routes. The other 2 contracts have also been awarded but will start later. Public meetings at a yet unannounced date will proceed the start of work on the Districts 1-3 (and MA 2 and I-495) and Mass Pike. The project is still to be completed by next summer.

Unsurprisingly, US 6 exit renumbering was the focus of many of the questions afterwards, mostly from Cape Cod officials and citizens. Apparently in  response to complaints about how the proposed old exit number signs would look on their scenic highway, MassDOT will put up green and white old exit number signs along US 6 instead of the yellow and black ones going up everywhere else. Positively, one official said that they know that since many visitors to the Cape come from places with mileage based exits, the exit number change would be a benefit to them. Another though thought mileage for US 6 should start at Provincetown so that exit numbers would retain some meaning for Cape drivers, he was reminded that mileposts have to start at the western border with RI. Another thought the Cape Cod Commission should pay MassDOT to keep the old exit numbers signs up indefinitely. An official from Gloucester wanted to know why the new exit numbers for Route 128 end at current Exit 12 and not with the now former Exits 11-9. He was told that those numbers are no longer used. He shared examples of signs that still have those numbers and MassDOT said it will remove any remaining signs for those 'exits' as part of the renumbering project. Another person had put together a spreadsheet showing that 60% of the new mileage based numbers do not actually correspond to MUTCD specifications in assigning numbers. MassDOT's response is they want to limit as far as possible the number of suffixed exits so not to be too confusing to drivers, this includes not following MUTCD specs regarding continuation of numbers across borders for 3-digit interstate routes. There was even a question about why Massachusetts signs don't use Clearview.

I will continue to monitor the progress of exit renumbering and will plan road trips to cover routes as they are converted to the new system.

Wow, I was expecting a nuclear meltdown from the US 6 contingency!  Maybe they will save that in a more localized public meeting.  I can't believe that they balked over the yellow & black "Old Exit XX" signage...actually, yes I can believe it.

[The Ghostbuster]

At least the US 6 exit numbers will be changed along with the rest of the state. I'm sure Cape Coders will eventually get used to the new numbers, although that cannot be guaranteed.

[Ben114]

Unsurprisingly, US 6 exit renumbering was the focus of many of the questions afterwards, mostly from Cape Cod officials and citizens.

No surprise. 2015 / 2016 repeats itself.

Apparently in response to complaints about how the proposed old exit number signs would look on their scenic highway, MassDOT will put up green and white old exit number signs along US 6 instead of the yellow and black ones going up everywhere else.

Fairly interesting that there's a concern here. If MA is using the same yellow as RI, I don't see much of an issue. Depending on the design of the "old exit" tab, it could blend in too much with the new exit number, unless using the same design as CT.

Positively, one official said that they know that since many visitors to the Cape come from places with mileage based exits, the exit number change would be a benefit to them.

As New England and other Northeast states progress with conversions, it will help that everything is the same standard.

Another though thought mileage for US 6 should start at Provincetown so that exit numbers would retain some meaning for Cape drivers

That would have exit numbers starting around 30 or 40 in Orleans, and increase as one travels west, until exit 70-something in Bourne. That's even weirder and more confusing than the current plan.

mileposts have to start at the western border with RI.

Arizona hides.

Another thought the Cape Cod Commission should pay MassDOT to keep the old exit numbers signs up indefinitely.

Nice try, but no, bribing won't work with the government.

An official from Gloucester wanted to know why the new exit numbers for Route 128 end at current Exit 12 and not with the now former Exits 11-9.

This is a new one. Exit 12, for as long I have known, is the last interchange on 128.

Another person had put together a spreadsheet showing that 60% of the new mileage based numbers do not actually correspond to MUTCD specifications in assigning numbers.

Yes, but 60% being different is too much for MassDOT to call this a renumbering based on mileposts.

MassDOT's response is they want to limit as far as possible the number of suffixed exits so not to be too confusing to drivers

Does anyone know why MassDOT removed the suffixes from the 2016 plan? Seems like they are trying to keep seqential numbers around.

There was even a question about why Massachusetts signs don't use Clearview.

We just don't.

[PurdueBill]

An official from Gloucester wanted to know why the new exit numbers for Route 128 end at current Exit 12 and not with the now former Exits 11-9.

This is a new one. Exit 12, for as long I have known, is the last interchange on 128.

Another person had put together a spreadsheet showing that 60% of the new mileage based numbers do not actually correspond to MUTCD specifications in assigning numbers.

Yes, but 60% being different is too much for MassDOT to call this a renumbering based on mileposts.

MassDOT's response is they want to limit as far as possible the number of suffixed exits so not to be too confusing to drivers

Does anyone know why MassDOT removed the suffixes from the 2016 plan? Seems like they are trying to keep seqential numbers around.

There was even a question about why Massachusetts signs don't use Clearview.

We just don't.

I can remember long ago signs (smaller ones) with "Next Exit 11" and such up on 128 in Gloucester, but they are gone now.  There were once BGS type signs for the exit numbers.

The original proposed new exit numbers had a lot of unnecessary suffixing--things like on I-95, Washington St. in Woburn becoming A and I-93 becoming B and C all of the same number.  A system interchange changing from A-B to B-C to accommodate a service interchange nearby being squeezed in as the A was silly; it makes way more sense to keep Washington St. as its own number and I-93 staying an A-B.  That is one example of where some limitation of suffixes makes a lot of sense.

Aren't there some different schemes used by different states for assigning exit numbers by milepost?  Some use the idea that mile 0-1.5 is Exit 1, 1.5-2.5 is Exit 2, etc.; some use Exit 0 so anything up to 0.99 gets that and 1.00-1.99 gets Exit 1, and so on; and probably in between (0.0-0.5 gets 0, 0.5-1.5 gets 1, etc.) but as long as there is a system that is roughly consistent, it works out.  Someone figuring the 60% may be using one criterion while MassDOT is using another but MassDOT is probably being consistent and using engineering judgement to avoid too many suffixes. 

What is best to avoid is something like this where it looks to make no sense; Exit 12 one way is at Mile 13 and the other way at 12.6.  Why not Exit 13?  Route 8 crosses 303 at about mile 12.8.  It looks especially crazy seeing the Exit 12 gore and Mile 13 marker next to each other when trying to explain to people that the exits are supposed to be numbered by mile marker.
https://goo.gl/maps/CbTXvkUKA2aGvcuE7
https://goo.gl/maps/cEyrHyp6FxYZGyJx7

Was the person who asked about Clearview a plant from Meeker? 

[bjcolby50]

Why start with MA 140? I would have started with Interstates 91, 84 and 395/290.

MA 24 and MA 140 share an exit 12 in Taunton, so to eliminate that confusion, MA 140 will have their numbers changed first (MA 140's Exit 12 will be Exit 20, whereas MA 24's Exit 12 will become Exit 17).

[bob7374]

Why start with MA 140? I would have started with Interstates 91, 84 and 395/290.

MA 24 and MA 140 share an exit 12 in Taunton, so to eliminate that confusion, MA 140 will have their numbers changed first (MA 140's Exit 12 will be Exit 20, whereas MA 24's Exit 12 will become Exit 17).

On a related note, MassDOT advertised a couple weeks ago a project that will replace the MA 24 bridge over MA 140. The description of the project includes traffic signal improvements, so apparently the project will not upgrade the current MA 140 'exits' to MA 24.

[bjcolby50]

Why start with MA 140? I would have started with Interstates 91, 84 and 395/290.

MA 24 and MA 140 share an exit 12 in Taunton, so to eliminate that confusion, MA 140 will have their numbers changed first (MA 140's Exit 12 will be Exit 20, whereas MA 24's Exit 12 will become Exit 17).

On a related note, MassDOT advertised a couple weeks ago a project that will replace the MA 24 bridge over MA 140. The description of the project includes traffic signal improvements, so apparently the project will not upgrade the current MA 140 'exits' to MA 24.

Ah...thanks for letting me know.  I haven't been down MA 140 since I graduated from UMass Dartmouth over 25 years ago.

[roadman]

On a related note, MassDOT advertised a couple weeks ago a project that will replace the MA 24 bridge over MA 140. The description of the project includes traffic signal improvements, so apparently the project will not upgrade the current MA 140 'exits' to MA 24.

The project includes adding a new exit ramp from MA 24 south to MA 140 north, adding a new ramp from MA 140 south to Stevens Street, and rebuilding the Stevens Street bridge over MA 140.  But you are correct, the current "exits" from MA 140 onto MA 24 will not change.

[bob7374]

MassDOT's posted the presentation slides from last week's public meeting:
https://newmassexits.com/images/MassDOT_Documents/Project_Documents/Exit_Renumbering_VPM_2020-9-24-20.pdf

[kramie13]

MA 24 and MA 140 share an exit 12 in Taunton, so to eliminate that confusion, MA 140 will have their numbers changed first (MA 140's Exit 12 will be Exit 20, whereas MA 24's Exit 12 will become Exit 17).

Yet I-95 and I-93 share an exit 37 in Reading but those numbers won't be changed until who knows...

[PHLBOS]

An official from Gloucester wanted to know why the new exit numbers for Route 128 end at current Exit 12 and not with the now former Exits 11-9.

This is a new one. Exit 12, for as long I have known, is the last interchange on 128.

I can remember long ago signs (smaller ones) with "Next Exit 11" and such up on 128 in Gloucester, but they are gone now.  There were once BGS type signs for the exit numbers.

While Exit 12 (Crafts Rd./Rust Island) is indeed the northeasternmost interchange along 128; Grant Circle (MA 127), the Eastern Ave. (MA 127) intersection & the Bass Ave. (MA 127A) intersection were designated Exits 11, 10 & 9 respectively since 1962.  Prior to such; Grant Circle was originally Exit 1 & Crafts Rd. was originally Exit 2.  The change was due to a proposed but ultimately abandoned proposal to extend the Freeway further into Cape Ann.  No, there wouldn't have been 11 more interchanges built with the extension because such would be too short   Adding 10 to the existing interchange numbers up to the MA 1A cloverleaf was viewed by the MassDPW as an easier adjustment/conversion.

As far as I know, there are still two signs out in the field the list Exits 11 through 9.

Circa Nov. 2019, last remaining BGS

The fore-mentioned NEXT EXIT 11 sign circa Nov. 2019

[bob7374]

An official from Gloucester wanted to know why the new exit numbers for Route 128 end at current Exit 12 and not with the now former Exits 11-9.

This is a new one. Exit 12, for as long I have known, is the last interchange on 128.

I can remember long ago signs (smaller ones) with "Next Exit 11" and such up on 128 in Gloucester, but they are gone now.  There were once BGS type signs for the exit numbers.

While Exit 12 (Crafts Rd./Rust Island) is indeed the northeasternmost interchange along 128; Grant Circle (MA 127), the Eastern Ave. (MA 127) intersection & the Bass Ave. (MA 127A) intersection were designated Exits 11, 10 & 9 respectively since 1962.  Prior to such; Grant Circle was originally Exit 1 & Crafts Rd. was originally Exit 2.  The change was due to a proposed but ultimately abandoned proposal to extend the Freeway further into Cape Ann.  No, there wouldn't have been 11 more interchanges built with the extension because such would be too short   Adding 10 to the existing interchange numbers up to the MA 1A cloverleaf was viewed by the MassDPW as an easier adjustment/conversion.

As far as I know, there are still two signs out in the field the list Exits 11 through 9.

Circa Nov. 2019, last remaining BGS

The fore-mentioned NEXT EXIT 11 sign circa Nov. 2019

Both are apparently still up. It was the BGS one that was the major issue with the Gloucester official. He wondered if the last exit is 12 now, why is that sign still up listing exits 11-9. He hoped the removal of that sign and any others would be a part of the renumbering project.

[bob7374]

Got an email from MassDOT saying a recording of the September 24 public hearing is now available at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7K5e6SbuuE&feature=youtu.be