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Author Topic: Southern Illinois Notes  (Read 24808 times)

edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2019, 09:54:50 PM »

This is really interesting and really summarizes US 50 There is really nothing that can be done from Carlyle to Salem.
I still wonder why the 130 to 1 was dropped.

Phase II engineering for contract plans for the section of U.S. 50 from two miles west of Illinois 130 to Lawrenceville is programmed during FY 2015-2019 at a cost of $693,000.

I am going to hazard a guess that the Phase II is complete now and so it was removed as they don't plan to put it out for bid right now.

Until I hear from the coalition directly I would guess that if any of the other projects on the list fail to start due to bid issues, new EIS issues, lawsuits, or a bunch of them come in a much lower bids than expected, IDOT will pool the funds for other shovel ready deals like US-50 in the east.

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Revive 755

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2019, 10:09:27 PM »

Where does it say US 50 cannot be rerouted around Carlyle to the south, with some of the existing section west of IL 127 being decommissioned?
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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2019, 11:17:27 PM »

True they have the land but I have nagging doubts they did that phase 2 . It was in the multi year but I never saw it in an annual. And it was always in an out year. Hope you hear from contact. We could always FOIA.

755 of course they could but it's IDOT.......
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2019, 03:40:09 PM »

Where does it say US 50 cannot be rerouted around Carlyle to the south, with some of the existing section west of IL 127 being decommissioned?

In the original 1972 EIS several routes involving Carlyle were covered. At the time of the EIS, Lake Carlyle was still on the drawing board with the Army Corp of Engineers.

2 alignments were mentioned.

- One that goes north of Carlyle and continues east just underneath the dam to Huey
- One that goes south of Carlyle using a new west side loop around and continues east and crosses the Kaskaskia River south of town. (This would make the current deadhead at IL-127 a spur)

Much was covered on the AADT of IL-127 north & south of Carlyle in the research.

Also there is a small dependency on how the then active EIS for US-51 at Sandoval was going to go.  US-51 was relocated between Centralia to just south of Sandoval. IDOT owns ROW (or at least they used to) east of Sandoval for this alignment so they could create a full US-50/US-51 cloverleaf east of town.

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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2019, 04:02:53 PM »

The Olney was to be a connection to 69. IN DOT had no further plans . Perhaps there was something found wanting in their phase 1. IDOT can blame or thank IN DOT for killing off both the 50 and 1 corridors.

INDOT is currently holding hearings on US-231 and US-50 improvements, mostly in support of industry in Jasper and Huntingburg.

So I don't think they care much about what IDOT wants to do west of Vincennes anymore.
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3467

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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2019, 07:21:09 PM »

Speaking of the corps they are in the above article. 130 million for 6 miles of 4 lane at a ,17 foot elevation ....sure.

Disappears IDOT  has the 51 ROW. Looking at the satellite maps it looks like there is 4 lane ROW just south of Vandalia IDOT  used to do that all the time. Might be fun for a list in notes sometime.
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2019, 01:54:09 PM »

They were on the featured project list. Then just vanished. When I tried their website it was hijacked.
I am really curious. When we get some time I may ask my wife to FOIA about it.
You can try if you want .
You have to word it right to get info. On discussions.

I plan to specifically FOIA the decision on corridor protection  on Corridor Protection for US 67 between Illinois 104 and Macomb.

Time period this year and last year.

We probably won't get to it before Christmas if anyone else wants to go for it. They have to get back to you in a week.But that is the kind nonspecific wording.

I have reached out to a member of the US50 Coalition to see what the scoop is among the membership.

As noted in the other US50 - Illinois thread:

IDOT terminated the Olney to Lawrenceville project in 2017. (no reason given)

The US 50 Coalition is attempting to get it back on the funded list.
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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2019, 06:46:50 PM »

Edwaleni great . You come through with the info.

Usually there is something behind it. My suggestion is try passing lanes first but keep that ROW. These 4 lane studies just never end and go nowhere. There has been growing  hostility to bypasses
You don't need any big studies for those. Please pass on if you speak to them.

I would go with a through town in Jerseyville and Carrolton on 67 . It would be a smaller percentage of the route than Monmouth Macomb which works well.
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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2019, 08:40:24 PM »

So here is where we stand
Southwest Connector . IDOT told them based on news reports to try to get Build grants. I think they made a mistake because I DOT has a ready to build segment.

US 51 Gone never filed a FEIS. Local opposition
US 50 Lebanon bypass funded . But the rest cancelled for some reason. Future unknown

US 24 funded to hear Canton. This would force a redo of 336 studies most likely ending it.. Both are about same distance to Peoria

US 34 Funded to hear Monmouth . Probably will be extended to 67 but the part the Corps wants built up 17 feet probably will never be built.

67 Construction near and ROW acquired to Jerseyville plus Beardstown bridge. But 2 other segment each about 10 miles were not included. Jerseyville to Carrolton and 10 miles north of the existing 4 lane and near Jacksonville.
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2019, 08:49:42 PM »

Edwaleni great . You come through with the info.

Usually there is something behind it. My suggestion is try passing lanes first but keep that ROW. These 4 lane studies just never end and go nowhere. There has been growing  hostility to bypasses
You don't need any big studies for those. Please pass on if you speak to them.

I would go with a through town in Jerseyville and Carrolton on 67 . It would be a smaller percentage of the route than Monmouth Macomb which works well.

It comes down to politics plain and simple. SE Illinois south of I-70 and east of I-57 has become the new "Forgottonia" that used to describe everything west of Springfield and south of Macomb.

They just don't have the political leverage they used to have post WWII and it clearly was on its way out by 1974 as IDOT started breaking the promises. As the population continues to move west and south across the US, Their legislative districts keep getting larger and larger and more diluted in Congress.

As more people exit Illinois over the next 25 years it will only get worse.

The only way it will reverse is if a few things happen:

- A large automotive corporation wants to built a plant nearby (ILL will further break the bank to woo it)
- An Illinois US Senator lives in the area (kind of like when Paul Simon lived near Carbondale)
- Frac oil comes easier to the region (and they have a lot of frac oil)

until something like above happens, it will continue its long retreat into agriculture and small industry.
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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2019, 10:31:08 PM »

You have not seen what's coming to ag. Plant Meat cultivated meat and precision fermentation. .....and autos the future is in Bloomington Normal at Rivian. The long range inexpensive EV is here not much need for oil. Rivian is going to make Amazon's truck fleet.
Illinois a big win for downstate. But overall fewer auto jobs. The battery making process is highly automated. Probably worst news for Mexico.

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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2019, 10:56:52 PM »

In some fairness to IDiot. The Illinois 1 corridors was pretty much stopped by EPA and 67 north of Monmouth by FHWA at the start in the seventies.

A big problem is the dropping traffic volumes that is why I suggest 3 lanes.
It's a problem for city of Chicago arterial in a different way.
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roadgeek

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2019, 11:03:25 AM »

South of I-70 and east of I-57 is where I go in Illinois as I have family there in the Flora and Clay City area. US-50 really doesn't seem bad as far as traffic goes. I'm just not sure the idea of expanding to more lanes make a lot of sense. It's been years since I've been beyond Salem but from I-57 in Salem to Olney I just can't see more lanes being added. I know there is a Walmart Distribution Center in Olney but everything seems adequate, at least for now. I haven't been on US-50 EAST beyond Olney and IL-130 so I can't attest to any potential needs there.
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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2019, 11:25:54 AM »

I think you are right roadgeek. Almost all these roads under study have been seeing declining traffic. It's why I suggested passing lanes. Iowa is doing it on all its remaining routes. That discussion pops up in Iowa notes.
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kphoger

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2019, 02:00:42 PM »

It was back in the 2006-2008 range that I was regularly driving US-50 in eastern Illinois, but I agree that traffic doesn't warrant four lanes.  Then again, I'm not so sure traffic on IL-13 east of Marion warrants four lanes either, so there you go...
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roadgeek

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2019, 02:08:37 PM »

US-50 is quite a rural highway for the most part in south eastern Illinois. I imagine its a little different closer to St. Louis. I'm not really sure passing lanes are even needed. Perhaps closer to St. Louis maybe. The only divided highway I can think of is in Flora starting down the road from Uebinger Furnature at the junction with US-45. Then goes back to two lanes then a divided highway by the Best Western and Pizza Hut in Flora.

I think you are right roadgeek. Almost all these roads under study have been seeing declining traffic. It's why I suggested passing lanes. Iowa is doing it on all its remaining routes. That discussion pops up in Iowa notes.
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kphoger

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2019, 02:34:12 PM »

We discussed this a while back on the regular Illinois board, so I figured I'd post the AADTs from that thread.


Yes, there is a US50 Coalition pushing for a 4 lane from O'Fallon to Vincennes.

...

AADTs:

8150   Vincennes - Lawrenceville
6600   Lawrenceville - Olney
4350   Olney - Clay City
7050   Clay City - Flora
6550   Flora - Salem
10500   Salem - Odin
6400   Odin - Sandoval
6700   Sandoval - Carlyle
7550   Aviston - Carlyle
9450   Carlyle - Lebanon
15300   Lebanon - O'Fallon

It's right on the line of needing it, if you ask me.  For comparison, I-64 east of Mount Vernon runs about 10000 to 12000 AADT.
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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2019, 05:56:20 PM »

I started this because the Illinois list was becoming the Chicago list. Nothing wrong with that they just seemed to lose interest in downstate projects. I am going to check  the latest figures.
One of the reasons IDOT  have for cancelling US 30 and 34 in northern Illinois was decline in traffic. 30 went from 7100 to 6600 .
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2019, 08:46:38 PM »

We discussed this a while back on the regular Illinois board, so I figured I'd post the AADTs from that thread.


Yes, there is a US50 Coalition pushing for a 4 lane from O'Fallon to Vincennes.

...

AADTs:

8150   Vincennes - Lawrenceville
6600   Lawrenceville - Olney
4350   Olney - Clay City
7050   Clay City - Flora
6550   Flora - Salem
10500   Salem - Odin
6400   Odin - Sandoval
6700   Sandoval - Carlyle
7550   Aviston - Carlyle
9450   Carlyle - Lebanon
15300   Lebanon - O'Fallon

It's right on the line of needing it, if you ask me.  For comparison, I-64 east of Mount Vernon runs about 10000 to 12000 AADT.

Thanks for reposting this as i was just about to do the same.

Salem to Odin is high due to (2) truck transfer terminals located just west of the I-57 exit.

Olney west to Clay City is just too low.  The jump from Clay City to Flora is due to co-signage with US-45. The Wal Mart Distro Center in Olney is really for stores east of there and into western Indiana. This is why the coalition was trying to get the 4 lane extended from Lawrenceville to IL-130 where the center is.  Also a major supplier to Wal Mart is Pacific Cycle, which has a plant south of Olney on IL-130.
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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2019, 07:55:54 PM »

A little farther north. I DOT  out an expressway ends sign on the Macomb bypass . First of all its a 2 lane full freeway and the freeway ends at an actual expressway US 67 .
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2019, 04:33:13 PM »

As for US-50

Olney to Vincennes
O'Fallon to Caryle
Salem Bypass with I-57

are warranted due to volumes, industry, commuting or recreational.

Carlye to Salem and Salem to Olney are just too low to justify.

Last time I spoke with some folks in SE Illinois along US-50 in the 1960's they used to drive over to Vincennes for certain items not local.

They said in the 1980's it started to shift and more people drove to Effingham or Terre Haute.

That all changed somewhat when Wal Mart built their first, then replacement super center north of Olney.

Regional heath care referrals for many years went to south Evansville. Now they go north to C-U via Carle.

The local oil business moved to Robinson (Marathon Refinery) when the Lawrenceville Indian Refinery closed down. That refinery had a lot of workers from Olney and Vincennes.

Robinson also has a large Hershey's plant there (the original Heath Bar factory).

Some people drive to work the Duke Energy plant across the Wabash near Mt Carmel or the CIPS Power Plant between Olney and Newton.

I know its hard to believe, but the Vincennes-Lawrenceville International Airport (just off US-50) used to have regularly scheduled airline service. Piedmont used to run commuter service out of there to either Indy to Evansville. It was to support all of the oil executives and employees flying in and out the 2 refineries (Robinson & Lawrenceville) nearby.

For those who are into deep trivia, "Havoline" oil was produced at the Indian Oil Refinery in Lawrenceville from 1906-1962. It's also where multi-grade oil was invented. It was sold to Texas Oil (Texaco) and the Indian name was retired. (But the town mascot is still the "Indians")

For many locals, they believe the political influence of the area declined as the local oil industry waned. The Indian refinery was finally sold to Marathon, and then shut down due to it being obsolete and uneconomic.

There is still oil in the region, but it is difficult to locate and extract. However, much of the remaining oil can be removed via fracking, but ILEPA created such overly strict environmental laws it remains uneconomic. While Illinois continues to lower taxes on high sulphur coal, opportunities for extracting oil and gas sit on the shelf. If cheaper fracking options remain in the Bakken or Permian Basins, the SE Illinois oil will probably remain in the ground.





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3467

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2019, 04:57:07 PM »

Since they pulled it in 17 under Rauner my guess is they never started Phase2 and probably needed a full EIS not the EA they were working on. Basically all the environmental documents they have are out of date because of no work except 34 and 67.And there is just no money in this budget for them.
All parts of the state got a little bit of expansion .
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Revive 755

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2020, 11:48:19 AM »

The report has been released for the 'Southwest Illinois Connector'.  https://www.siconnector.com/  The report has a map for previous studies, including one prior to the Supplemental Freeway corridor which would have used IL 13 and IL 15.

Kind of disappointing there's no mention in the report of getting a better bypasses for Waterloo or Columbia.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 11:56:07 AM by Revive 755 »
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edwaleni

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Re: Southern Illinois Notes
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2020, 03:41:25 PM »

The report has been released for the 'Southwest Illinois Connector'.  https://www.siconnector.com/  The report has a map for previous studies, including one prior to the Supplemental Freeway corridor which would have used IL 13 and IL 15.

Kind of disappointing there's no mention in the report of getting a better bypasses for Waterloo or Columbia.

This one probably deserves its own thread as I can think of several discussion points associated with it.

If no issues, I will start one.
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