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[3467]

Can anyone tell me when an EIS goes stale and needs updating? I ask because Illinois has a bunch of old ones that have never been acted on and it looks like there will be a capital bill funded by pot and gambling.

[Rick Powell]

Can anyone tell me when an EIS goes stale and needs updating? I ask because Illinois has a bunch of old ones that have never been acted on and it looks like there will be a capital bill funded by pot and gambling.

How stale depends on how many years it's been and what changes have occurred since the last Record of Decision. 3 years is usually enough to trigger a re-evaluation of impacts, including new environmental surveys to confirm the boundaries of wetlands, presence of endangered species, buildings that are newly eligible for historic status, and so on. If enough time has lapsed where the wisdom of the original decision is in question, a supplemental EIS may be required. Some studies are so far out of date that a completely new study may as well be started from scratch. The IL-53 extension in Lake County, which made it to the EIS stage in the 1990s but was never completed, is one such project, where the Tollway is starting a brand new study.

[edwaleni]

Can anyone tell me when an EIS goes stale and needs updating? I ask because Illinois has a bunch of old ones that have never been acted on and it looks like there will be a capital bill funded by pot and gambling.

How stale depends on how many years it's been and what changes have occurred since the last Record of Decision. 3 years is usually enough to trigger a re-evaluation of impacts, including new environmental surveys to confirm the boundaries of wetlands, presence of endangered species, buildings that are newly eligible for historic status, and so on. If enough time has lapsed where the wisdom of the original decision is in question, a supplemental EIS may be required. Some studies are so far out of date that a completely new study may as well be started from scratch. The IL-53 extension in Lake County, which made it to the EIS stage in the 1990s but was never completed, is one such project, where the Tollway is starting a brand new study.

The EIS for the US50 Freeway from O'Fallon to Lake Carlyle was completed in 1973 and updated in 1977. When discussions on funding its completion were held last fall, it was noted that it was expired and funding would have to be secured to replace it, even though 20-30% of the freeway and bridges were built on ROW acquired at the time but never used.

[3467]

Thanks because after years of no news Illinois is going to have some. What is not clear but the politics is radically changed.All but 67 are stale then because nothing has been done in a decade on most.US 50 does have an EA going on from Olney to Indiana another 4 lane ROW at each since 2012.

[abefroman329]

a capital bill funded by pot and gambling

First they have to legalize pot in Illinois.  And I really hope they're not thinking of building more casinos.  The one in Elgin has been hurting ever since Rivers opened, and Rivers is gonna be hurting if the Native American casino they're thinking of building near Kenosha ever gets built.

[3467]

That is what I keep hearing . For capital and higher ed. WIU is broke. Chair of trustees resigned for violating open meetings act for covering it up. Downstate complaints but it has to use Illinois terminology has no clout. Why I mention that old road wish list.

[3467]

Also I bring up EISs . A recent ruling by a judge in MT gave agencies a lot of NEPA flexability. While not national it's very interesting. You can find the ruling at wildearthguardians.org. they lost on NEPA but won big on ESA. Its interesting ruling if you deal with NEPA worth a read.Maybe it should go under general highway.

[3467]

Back to IL. I was at a Pritzger event. He wants progressive tax on ballot. That delays any big plans . But he wants to allow people to buy into Medicaid as public option which he thinks will bring in money. Pot and gambling for roads and higher ed. And some sort of interim school and ptasx relief. The first are clear the last one looks like magic.

[Brandon]

Back to IL. I was at a Pritzger event. He wants progressive tax on ballot. That delays any big plans . But he wants to allow people to buy into Medicaid as public option which he thinks will bring in money. Pot and gambling for roads and higher ed. And some sort of interim school and ptasx relief. The first are clear the last one looks like magic.

Slightly off-topic, but relevant to the discussion: If Pritzker wants a progressive income tax, it mandates a change in the state constitution, not something taken lightly, and very difficult to pass.  The 1970 state constitution (for better or worse) crystallizes the current flat tax (regardless of rate).

Personally, I just don't see much funding for roads in Illinois at the state level (except for ISTHA) due to the pension situation (which has been a couple decades in the making).  Aside from a few interchanges here and there, I just don't see much happening.

[ilpt4u]

a capital bill funded by pot and gambling

First they have to legalize pot in Illinois.  And I really hope they're not thinking of building more casinos.  The one in Elgin has been hurting ever since Rivers opened, and Rivers is gonna be hurting if the Native American casino they're thinking of building near Kenosha ever gets built.

A couple of the Downstate casino proposals:

Danville would be a good one downstate. Closest in state are Joliet and Peoria, both a 1-2 hour drive. Nearest in Indiana is Hoosier Park NE of Indy, probably an hour+ away. And Danville could use anything it can get

Walker's Bluff in Carterville (between Marion and Carbondale) is an interesting one. They want one. Metropolis on the Ohio and Cape Girardeau across the Mississippi both have casinos, and are about 1 hour away each. St Louis and East St Louis have multiple casinos, about 1:30 away or so. That one has more in range competition. However Walkers Bluff has aspirations of being a Convention and Resort Center, and wants the casino to be a part of it

Any Gambling expansion, whether new or existing Casinos, should add Sports Betting. Now that the Federal prohibition on Sports Betting is gone, IL needs to join the Legalized states. AFAIK no bordering Gambling state has legalized it yet. Mississippi has, which is driveable from Southern IL, but not exactly close. There are new revenue possibilities, statewide, on Sports Betting

[3467]

Politically every downstate 4 lane project on the projects list is in a GOP district.  I expect Madigan blackmails a few to get the progressive tax on the ballot. It needs 60. But I do expect some money and I think like 4u it will be casinos and pot for a capital bill with token ptas relief until the progressive tax.

[3467]

Thy he Ontario TRS owns the skyway.  I have long suggested making TRS the Tollway owner and there goes half the debt.

[3467]

Tony Evers in WI suggested working with the GOP legislature on transportation. They responded by demanding he give up powers. Even Walkers staff slapped them down. So looks like no solution to Wisconsins road woes and as mentioned in central states..MO voters voted the gas tax down. Any other election effects in Midwest?

[mgk920]

Tony Evers in WI suggested working with the GOP legislature on transportation. They responded by demanding he give up powers. Even Walkers staff slapped them down. So looks like no solution to Wisconsins road woes and as mentioned in central states..MO voters voted the gas tax down. Any other election effects in Midwest?

Part of that, too, is that despite Democrat Evers narrowly winning the governor election, the Republicans *gained* seats in the legislature, increasing their majority.  The next few years will be interesting here.

Mike

[edwaleni]

Thanks because after years of no news Illinois is going to have some. What is not clear but the politics is radically changed.All but 67 are stale then because nothing has been done in a decade on most.US 50 does have an EA going on from Olney to Indiana another 4 lane ROW at each since 2012.

Yes, there is a US50 Coalition pushing for a 4 lane from O'Fallon to Vincennes.

The 4 lane in Illinois west of the Wabash ends north of Lawrenceville today, is a Super 2 briefly, before heading down an alignment to Olney.  In the original Interstate Plan, this route was supposed to be the St Louis-Louisville route but was moved south (now I-64).  The EA is to raise the road from the Wabash River to the Walmart Distro Center west of Olney to interstate standards. That distro center supports SE Illinois and parts of western Indiana so truck traffic has been increasing.

That US50 section around Vincennes and Lawrenceville was bulit in 1961-1962, but the road is in decrepit condition.  Also the economics in the region have changed dramatically since that road was built.  That part of the state used to be a large oil producer (Lawrenceville used to have a large refinery) and the road also served a former USAAF base, which for awhile was an international airport. There are no more commercial flights into that airport either.

Essentially, US50 would have a full interchange with IL-130 and a simple on/off ramps at IL-250 north of Bridgeport and at Red Hill State Park.  They would convert the Super-2 west of Lawrenceville and reconstruct the full interchange and bridges at IL-1.  I doubt any ramps will exist for the airport which is general aviation now since the runways were truncated back in the 1980's.  The ramps for IL-33 and the US50 BUSN Loop for Lawrenceville will remain.

Unfortunately IDOT has allowed a large amount of property creep along the ROW east of Olney since the current route was built in 1961.  Olney has plans for a large industrial park where US50, IL-250 and the CSX railroad meet at Holly Road, but CSX wanted Olney to pay for the switch and new rail spur. With CSX having closed that line between O'Fallon and Flora, Olney only is served from the east now by rail, making a large industrial park a challenge.  Olney let a federal grant lapse to reimburse them for CSX because they found they couldn't afford to extend city water and sewer. Since Illinois was broke, they couldn't help either.

So now they are hoping a US50 4 lane extension will help them attract new industrial clients.

The area was a target for oil fracking, but when Illinois passed the most onerous fracking rules in the world, many of the frackers have moved on.  If oil prices ever go back up, I can see this highway getting used heavily for oil support.  Until then, it will mostly be used for regional purposes, like agricultural, small industrial, and local A to B traffic.

[kphoger]

Yes, there is a US50 Coalition pushing for a 4 lane from O'Fallon to Vincennes.

...

AADTs:

8150   Vincennes - Lawrenceville
6600   Lawrenceville - Olney
4350   Olney - Clay City
7050   Clay City - Flora
6550   Flora - Salem
10500   Salem - Odin
6400   Odin - Sandoval
6700   Sandoval - Carlyle
7550   Aviston - Carlyle
9450   Carlyle - Lebanon
15300   Lebanon - O'Fallon

It's right on the line of needing it, if you ask me.  For comparison, I-64 east of Mount Vernon runs about 10000 to 12000 AADT.

[Revive 755]

^ I think the Carlyle - Lebanon stretch gets some large fluctuations with weekend traffic.  I've seen EB fairly crowded while at the same time WB wasn't bad.

[edwaleni]

^ I think the Carlyle - Lebanon stretch gets some large fluctuations with weekend traffic.  I've seen EB fairly crowded while at the same time WB wasn't bad.

The 1973 and 1977 EIS covered the O'Fallon to Carlyle section. The upgrade to interstate standards was started and contracts were issued, then IDOT cancelled them due to a shift in priorities.

That is why you see so many stretches of Super 2 or unused bridges along the ROW east of O'Fallon.

Contracts were also issued in 1973 for the section between Xenia to Clay City. Much of it involving upgrades around US45, but not interstate standards.  However, only 2 or 3 miles and 2 bridges were built before the contract was cancelled and only the 2 lane alignment was left.

The 4 lane segment was used for maybe 4 to 5 years and when it became obvious no more money was coming, IDOT closed the south side of the ROW and it became a 2 lane.

For years people complained about the sudden Xenia termination. Go south a mile and then return to the 1928 alignment to continue to Salem.

Finally IDOT fixed that in the 1990's where they completed the Xenia alignment to turn south and merge with the old alignment which allowed 2 stoplights to be taken out.

Below is the unfinished Xenia segment. It ended abruptly at Co Road 3000 and turned you south to "old" US 50.



This one is the unfinished US45 North intersection north of Flora.

[3467]

There is a study for an 2 lane Lebanon bypass that would connect to the segment to Carlyle. Then there is some 4 lane at Salem and the past Salem its 4 lane ROW to Indiana as edwalini describes.

[3467]

There are a lot of discussions on how to deal with a ton of issues but Pritzgers team wants a big Spring as of today pot and gambling may be general revs and a gas tax for capital.

[edwaleni]

Yes, there is a US50 Coalition pushing for a 4 lane from O'Fallon to Vincennes.

...

AADTs:

8150   Vincennes - Lawrenceville
6600   Lawrenceville - Olney
4350   Olney - Clay City
7050   Clay City - Flora
6550   Flora - Salem
10500   Salem - Odin
6400   Odin - Sandoval
6700   Sandoval - Carlyle
7550   Aviston - Carlyle
9450   Carlyle - Lebanon
15300   Lebanon - O'Fallon

It's right on the line of needing it, if you ask me.  For comparison, I-64 east of Mount Vernon runs about 10000 to 12000 AADT.

These are interesting metrics.

Most traffic goes east from Olney but not west.

Most traffic goes west from Flora, but not east.

Also that Odin/Salem number is very high and kind of baffled me until I noticed that Con-Way has a logistics center on US50 next to WalMart and NAL west of I-57 between Odin and Salem.

[ILRoad55]

On Roosevelt around 290 and 294, there are some gates that look like the ones used on the express lanes of the Kennedy. It's pretty obvious they are used to close the ramp, but why? Have they ever been used?

Streetview reference, https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8617658,-87.9240695,3a,29.6y,70.56h,87.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suQOuAmDpST3dfjdyU9dRQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[ChiMilNet]

On Roosevelt around 290 and 294, there are some gates that look like the ones used on the express lanes of the Kennedy. It's pretty obvious they are used to close the ramp, but why? Have they ever been used?

Streetview reference, https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8617658,-87.9240695,3a,29.6y,70.56h,87.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suQOuAmDpST3dfjdyU9dRQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I know that they are closed inbound in the afternoon rush hour, or at least I have encountered that. I guess it is a traffic control measure... although I question the usefulness of this feature as all it does is funnel the traffic to the surface roads in the area.

[edwaleni]

On Roosevelt around 290 and 294, there are some gates that look like the ones used on the express lanes of the Kennedy. It's pretty obvious they are used to close the ramp, but why? Have they ever been used?

Streetview reference, https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8617658,-87.9240695,3a,29.6y,70.56h,87.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suQOuAmDpST3dfjdyU9dRQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I know that they are closed inbound in the afternoon rush hour, or at least I have encountered that. I guess it is a traffic control measure... although I question the usefulness of this feature as all it does is funnel the traffic to the surface roads in the area.

Installed as part of the Hillside Strangler remediation under Gov. George Ryan.  Intended to push traffic eastbound on Roosevelt to Mannheim when the traffic sensor at Wolf Road detects stopped or slow moving traffic.

While it might help with an acute issue, but when it closes, it pushes the traffic down to the left turn lane at Mannheim, as people have to turn left off Roosevelt to get back to the Ike.

IDOT has tried several times to bridge Mannheim over IL-38 (Roosevelt) but the towns of Hillside and Westchester won't have it. IDOT wanted to eliminate all or most of the retail for land acquisition around the intersection north to the CN (Illinois Central) tracks. Due to the cemetery just south of IL-38, all of the ramps would have to be situated north.

[ILRoad55]

On Roosevelt around 290 and 294, there are some gates that look like the ones used on the express lanes of the Kennedy. It's pretty obvious they are used to close the ramp, but why? Have they ever been used?

Streetview reference, https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8617658,-87.9240695,3a,29.6y,70.56h,87.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suQOuAmDpST3dfjdyU9dRQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I know that they are closed inbound in the afternoon rush hour, or at least I have encountered that. I guess it is a traffic control measure... although I question the usefulness of this feature as all it does is funnel the traffic to the surface roads in the area.

Installed as part of the Hillside Strangler remediation under Gov. George Ryan.  Intended to push traffic eastbound on Roosevelt to Mannheim when the traffic sensor at Wolf Road detects stopped or slow moving traffic.

While it might help with an acute issue, but when it closes, it pushes the traffic down to the left turn lane at Mannheim, as people have to turn left off Roosevelt to get back to the Ike.

IDOT has tried several times to bridge Mannheim over IL-38 (Roosevelt) but the towns of Hillside and Westchester won't have it. IDOT wanted to eliminate all or most of the retail for land acquisition around the intersection north to the CN (Illinois Central) tracks. Due to the cemetery just south of IL-38, all of the ramps would have to be situated north.

Wow! Didn't know about that. But yea, it does seem to push all the traffic further east on Roosevelt and onto Mannheim. There is also the entrance at Wolf Road and Harrison but not many drivers know of it. But you eventually get dumped into that merge after Westchester Blvd.