Service Plazas on non-toll highways

[jmacswimmer]

Don't blame me, I simply pointed out that they were a nice feature and as usual haters gonna hate.

Not blaming anyone, I too think service plazas are a nice feature. I was just answering RGT's question, for better or for worse

[Roadgeekteen]

I also enjoy service plazas, they are a nice feature on roads.

[vdeane]

I would say that yes, service areas are more convenient than getting off the highway.  Getting off the highway involves dealing with turns and traffic lights and the drive time itself.  In a suburban area (where most of the both good and highway accessible eats are), that can easily add an additional 5-10 minutes, more if the lunch/bathroom stop is off a different exit than the gas stop.  I've had trips where my budgeted 30 minutes for lunch/gas got blown up to over 45 factoring all that in.  At a service area, though, it's easy off, easy on.

And prices absolutely are relevant to that question.  If given two otherwise identical options, people are going to go with the cheaper one.  Therefore, the fact that these places can not only survive but thrive with higher prices means that they are not otherwise identical to businesses off the interstate.  Clearly people get something that is worth paying the higher price.  Gee, I wonder what that could be...

[SkyPesos]

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.
Had we not done what we normally do and shot ourselves in the face, we could have had an interstate network with full service plazas everywhere like the toll roads, and likely with some rent arrangement that would have provided additional funds for the upkeep of the highways themselves. Instead of being drains on state budgets, rest areas could have been contributors.

I don't consider them to be an advantage for travelers. In my experience, gas prices at the service areas are higher than in private establishments. The restaurants often have limited menus and don't take part in lots of franchise promotions such as sales, value menus, coupons, and in some cases, the prices are higher, too, than they would be at the same brand of restaurant located off of the freeway exits. They also don't have the convenience of drive-thrus. I'm not sure how the franchisees handle apps, now. I know that at most McDonald's locations, you can order in the app, park in the parking lot, and they'll bring your food out to you. Other restaurants offer the same feature.

As for the WK Parkway's service area, that route was never an interstate. And the WK Parkway was originally a 140-mile slog through mostly rural areas, with few services and widely-spaced exits. The service plaza there made sense, and really still does despite more exits being built and more services popping up at Leitchfield, Beaver Dam, Central City, and Princeton. Hopefully, when that segment becomes an interstate -- and given Kentucky's penchant for getting the designation on its former toll roads, it's bound to happen -- the plaza will be grandfathered in.

Didn't Congress pass a bill to make it I-369 or something?

Upon further review, I think you're right. I believe they did get a definite future interstate designation for the WK between the Pennyrile and the Natcher. (I still have trouble with calling the northern section of the Pennyrile 69 and the Natcher 165.) And the service plaza is just to the west of the Natcher interchange. I may have even expressed a thought about whether or not the service plaza would be grandfathered in.

If they're going to turn that segment of the WK into an interstate, it's illogical for the whole thing to I-65 not to be so designated.

I think the 369 designation is half assed for a number for the rest of the WK Pkwy. Either combine it with the Bluegrass and call it I-54, 56 or 58, or if you want to leave the Bluegrass out, extend I-71 down the WK. KY is increasingly becoming like NC when it comes to 3di numbers now imo.

[sprjus4]

I'll also add that yes, service plazas are more convenient and easier to access than getting off the freeway to access gas, food, etc.

[plain]

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.
Had we not done what we normally do and shot ourselves in the face, we could have had an interstate network with full service plazas everywhere like the toll roads, and likely with some rent arrangement that would have provided additional funds for the upkeep of the highways themselves. Instead of being drains on state budgets, rest areas could have been contributors.

I don't consider them to be an advantage for travelers. In my experience, gas prices at the service areas are higher than in private establishments. The restaurants often have limited menus and don't take part in lots of franchise promotions such as sales, value menus, coupons, and in some cases, the prices are higher, too, than they would be at the same brand of restaurant located off of the freeway exits. They also don't have the convenience of drive-thrus. I'm not sure how the franchisees handle apps, now. I know that at most McDonald's locations, you can order in the app, park in the parking lot, and they'll bring your food out to you. Other restaurants offer the same feature.

As for the WK Parkway's service area, that route was never an interstate. And the WK Parkway was originally a 140-mile slog through mostly rural areas, with few services and widely-spaced exits. The service plaza there made sense, and really still does despite more exits being built and more services popping up at Leitchfield, Beaver Dam, Central City, and Princeton. Hopefully, when that segment becomes an interstate -- and given Kentucky's penchant for getting the designation on its former toll roads, it's bound to happen -- the plaza will be grandfathered in.

Didn't Congress pass a bill to make it I-369 or something?

Upon further review, I think you're right. I believe they did get a definite future interstate designation for the WK between the Pennyrile and the Natcher. (I still have trouble with calling the northern section of the Pennyrile 69 and the Natcher 165.) And the service plaza is just to the west of the Natcher interchange. I may have even expressed a thought about whether or not the service plaza would be grandfathered in.

If they're going to turn that segment of the WK into an interstate, it's illogical for the whole thing to I-65 not to be so designated.

I think the 369 designation is half assed for a number for the rest of the WK Pkwy. Either combine it with the Bluegrass and call it I-54, 56 or 58, or if you want to leave the Bluegrass out, extend I-71 down the WK. KY is increasingly becoming like NC when it comes to 3di numbers now imo.

Probably just leave BG Pkwy out, since it doesn't look like it will get past US 60 in any of our lifetimes anyway.

[GaryV]

Service areas are more convenient than getting off the highway, particularly so for some toll roads.  But you pay for that convenience with higher prices.

Just like you pay for the convenience of stopping at a 7-11 instead of going to the big-box grocery store.

[HighwayStar]

Service areas are more convenient than getting off the highway, particularly so for some toll roads.  But you pay for that convenience with higher prices.

Just like you pay for the convenience of stopping at a 7-11 instead of going to the big-box grocery store.

The key distinction is that consumers choose to pay for that convenience, otherwise they would have lower prices or be out of business.

[sprjus4]

KY is increasingly becoming like NC when it comes to 3di numbers now imo.

How, exactly? All of NC's 3di additions, with the exception of I-785, I-795, and I-587 (all too short for 2di routes) have been beltway and urban routes. None of them are long distance routes.

[US 89]

The only benefit I see to having service plazas on toll roads in the 21st century is if you exit the highway, you'll often end up paying more in tolls than if you hadn't exited due to how the ramp tolls work - even if you travel the same total distance.

That said, the higher prices at those service plazas probably more than account for whatever you save in tolls by going to them. So maybe there is no real benefit.

[Roadgeekteen]

The only benefit I see to having service plazas on toll roads in the 21st century is if you exit the highway, you'll often end up paying more in tolls than if you hadn't exited due to how the ramp tolls work - even if you travel the same total distance.

That said, the higher prices at those service plazas probably more than account for whatever you save in tolls by going to them. So maybe there is no real benefit.

The benefit is convenience.

[HighwayStar]

The only benefit I see to having service plazas on toll roads in the 21st century is if you exit the highway, you'll often end up paying more in tolls than if you hadn't exited due to how the ramp tolls work - even if you travel the same total distance.

That said, the higher prices at those service plazas probably more than account for whatever you save in tolls by going to them. So maybe there is no real benefit.

That would only be the case on a limited number of roads, yet service plazas still exist elsewhere, which indicates people consider them more convenient.

[hbelkins]

I'm a bit surprised that there aren't motels/hotels in some of the service plazas. There was a lodging establishment in the old Kentucky Turnpike service plaza at Shepherdsville. I think it was a Quality Inn at one point.

[1995hoo]

I'm a bit surprised that there aren't motels/hotels in some of the service plazas. There was a lodging establishment in the old Kentucky Turnpike service plaza at Shepherdsville. I think it was a Quality Inn at one point.

I think I read that Pennsylvania once had some sort of lodging upstairs at the Midway Service Plaza (I think the one on the south side, with a tunnel connecting it to the other side for access, but I might be mistaken).

[Rothman]

There's a small one near Exit 13 on I-87

No, there isn't.

[jeffandnicole]

The only benefit I see to having service plazas on toll roads in the 21st century is if you exit the highway, you'll often end up paying more in tolls than if you hadn't exited due to how the ramp tolls work - even if you travel the same total distance.

That said, the higher prices at those service plazas probably more than account for whatever you save in tolls by going to them. So maybe there is no real benefit.

I would imagine many people stopping at these plazas don't expect the pricing they're going to find there, or the limited options. Many service plaza fast food outlets don't have the dollar (or low price) options or cheaper combos. Someone driving may first see it as a convenience, but probably leave unhappy they fed their family on fast food and still spent 40 bucks for some basic meals.

[SEWIGuy]

I think most people buying McDonalds at a service plaza don't care if their value meal costs an extra $2 because the convenience is worth the cost.

[HighwayStar]

The only benefit I see to having service plazas on toll roads in the 21st century is if you exit the highway, you'll often end up paying more in tolls than if you hadn't exited due to how the ramp tolls work - even if you travel the same total distance.

That said, the higher prices at those service plazas probably more than account for whatever you save in tolls by going to them. So maybe there is no real benefit.

I would imagine many people stopping at these plazas don't expect the pricing they're going to find there, or the limited options. Many service plaza fast food outlets don't have the dollar (or low price) options or cheaper combos. Someone driving may first see it as a convenience, but probably leave unhappy they fed their family on fast food and still spent 40 bucks for some basic meals.

I doubt that is a common occurrence. I have never walked out of a service plaza fretting over the extra $2 I paid for my food, thinking if only I had spent 20 minutes trying to find an exit, navigate to another restaurant, eat there, and get back on the road.
You forget that the prices are posted and people know what they are buying, they can choose to walk away. But realistically most would not care, and the few that might only have to do it once to decide that they would rather spend the extra time and hassle trying to save a couple bucks.

[StogieGuy7]

Service plazas have higher prices and sometimes the branded restaurants therein may not have every item you'd find in a standalone of the same chain.  That said, they're far more convenient than exiting and thus save time if not money. And in places where service plazas are on non-toll highways (such as the 401 in Ontario), they're an easy and convenient place to stop.  Not far to my south is the Tri-State Tollway and I often stop at the Lake Forest Oasis for a coffee or snack along the way (gas too, but only if I'm in a pinch).  It's clean, it's convenient and it takes a lot less time than getting on and off would take, even if getting off wouldn't add to the toll cost (which it often does).

[vdeane]

There's a small one near Exit 13 on I-87

No, there isn't.

Is this beneath you?

[hotdogPi]

There's a small one near Exit 13 on I-87

No, there isn't.

Is this beneath you?

Somehow I looked in the other three places (Northway, overlap with 287, and the one in North Carolina), but not there.

[Roadgeekteen]

Think of a service plaza as buying something at a convenience store versus a supermarket.

[HighwayStar]

Think of a service plaza as buying something at a convenience store versus a supermarket.

True, and I would argue the price difference is probabally less in % terms in many cases than even that.

[hbelkins]

The only benefit I see to having service plazas on toll roads in the 21st century is if you exit the highway, you'll often end up paying more in tolls than if you hadn't exited due to how the ramp tolls work - even if you travel the same total distance.

That said, the higher prices at those service plazas probably more than account for whatever you save in tolls by going to them. So maybe there is no real benefit.

I would imagine many people stopping at these plazas don't expect the pricing they're going to find there, or the limited options. Many service plaza fast food outlets don't have the dollar (or low price) options or cheaper combos. Someone driving may first see it as a convenience, but probably leave unhappy they fed their family on fast food and still spent 40 bucks for some basic meals.

It's not just fast-food franchises at service plazas, either. Back in 1991 when I went west with my dad and brother, we stopped for lunch one day on I-70 somewhere in the Vail area. Menu prices were significantly higher than in other locations, so we left and went to another fast-food place. I'm thinking the two choices were Burger King and McDonald's, although I cannot remember for certain. At any rate, at the second option, menu prices were also significantly higher, so we bit the bullet there rather than trying to find a third option where the same phenomenon would likely have been encountered. So it seems that the area's status as a vacation destination gives local businesses the go-ahead to price-gouge.

If it had been me alone, I probably would have just gotten back in the car and stopped at Grand Junction.

The McDonald's in downtown Gatlinburg used to post signs saying they might not take part in all franchise-wide promotions or accept coupons, and that was 20 years ago.

[HighwayStar]

The only benefit I see to having service plazas on toll roads in the 21st century is if you exit the highway, you'll often end up paying more in tolls than if you hadn't exited due to how the ramp tolls work - even if you travel the same total distance.

That said, the higher prices at those service plazas probably more than account for whatever you save in tolls by going to them. So maybe there is no real benefit.

I would imagine many people stopping at these plazas don't expect the pricing they're going to find there, or the limited options. Many service plaza fast food outlets don't have the dollar (or low price) options or cheaper combos. Someone driving may first see it as a convenience, but probably leave unhappy they fed their family on fast food and still spent 40 bucks for some basic meals.

It's not just fast-food franchises at service plazas, either. Back in 1991 when I went west with my dad and brother, we stopped for lunch one day on I-70 somewhere in the Vail area. Menu prices were significantly higher than in other locations, so we left and went to another fast-food place. I'm thinking the two choices were Burger King and McDonald's, although I cannot remember for certain. At any rate, at the second option, menu prices were also significantly higher, so we bit the bullet there rather than trying to find a third option where the same phenomenon would likely have been encountered. So it seems that the area's status as a vacation destination gives local businesses the go-ahead to price-gouge.

If it had been me alone, I probably would have just gotten back in the car and stopped at Grand Junction.

The McDonald's in downtown Gatlinburg used to post signs saying they might not take part in all franchise-wide promotions or accept coupons, and that was 20 years ago.

"the go-ahead to price-gouge"

"Gouging" is not a real thing. It is to economics what perpetual motion is to physics.