Freeways that aren't really a freeway

[sprjus4]

Ha! Another onehere! No rumble strips with a side crossing to the right. Definitely not a real freeway.

That segment before the at-grade RIRO is most certainly a freeway, however.

[sprjus4]

NCDOT calls this a "freeway" design.

And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?

The top example is fully a freeway / limited access design. Just because the curve radius is smaller doesn't disqualify it.

As far as the bottom example, that's not even on a freeway so no.

You're confusing high speed rural interstate standards with freeway with these interchange comparisons. A 15 mph RIRO on a fully controlled access road is still a freeway. Substandard, sure, but still a freeway.

[SkyPesos]

I never thought I'd see a definition of "freeway" that was stricter than the one used by the Canadians arguing with me in the Detroit Bridge Wars thread (that the Thruway wasn't a freeway due to the toll barriers), but then I read this thread...

I think tolbs got "freeway" and "interstate standards" mixed up.

[tolbs17]

I never thought I'd see a definition of "freeway" that was stricter than the one used by the Canadians arguing with me in the Detroit Bridge Wars thread (that the Thruway wasn't a freeway due to the toll barriers), but then I read this thread...

I think tolbs got "freeway" and "interstate standards" mixed up.

Interstate standards has 10-12 feet shoulders on the right side, with fully controlled access.

Freeways don't have to have 10-12 foot shoulders, but if the median is small, they have a cable barrier. And yes, fully-controlled access too.

[Rothman]

What is this obsession with cable barriers?

[tolbs17]

What is this obsession with cable barriers?

For safety reasons if there is an accident, people don't have to risk themselves being close in the roadways.

[Rothman]

What is this obsession with cable barriers?

For safety reasons if there is an accident, people don't have to risk themselves being close in the roadways.

It doesn't have to specifically be a cable barrier.

[tolbs17]

What is this obsession with cable barriers?

For safety reasons if there is an accident, people don't have to risk themselves being close in the roadways.

It doesn't have to specifically be a cable barrier.

Ok, so how about a concrete barrier?

[sprjus4]

^ Some sort of barrier is good practice when the median is narrower, but it's not required to make it a "freeway" .

[Bickendan]

Ok then. How about this? https://goo.gl/maps/WpYsmaAHqNC11p9h7

Or this? https://goo.gl/maps/GAJqY4ApiotdS4dz5

Or this? https://goo.gl/maps/tgqKAJgAfM4ZK5Xt9

Two of the three are classified as 'freeways'.

[kphoger]

Freeways don't have to have 10-12 foot shoulders, but if the median is small, they have a cable barrier.

Says who?

Also, what's your opinion about this?

[tolbs17]

Freeways don't have to have 10-12 foot shoulders, but if the median is small, they have a cable barrier.

Says who?

Also, what's your opinion about this?

Wikipedia. And that's a freeway

[hotdogPi]

Freeways don't have to have 10-12 foot shoulders, but if the median is small, they have a cable barrier.

Says who?

Also, what's your opinion about this?

Wikipedia. And that's a freeway

The Wikipedia article on freeways doesn't contain the word "cable" even once except inside other words such as "practicable".

[jmacswimmer]

Says who?

Also, what's your opinion about this?

Wikipedia. And that's a freeway

Wait...I saw a narrow median with no cable barrier in the GSV kphoger linked.  But you said upthread:

Freeways don't have to have 10-12 foot shoulders, but if the median is small, they have a cable barrier.

So how is that a freeway by your standards?

[kphoger]

Freeways don't have to have 10-12 foot shoulders, but if the median is small, they have a cable barrier.

Says who?

Wikipedia.

Not that I'm seeing:  In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled-access_highway#United_States and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled-access_highway#Design, I don't see Wikipedia saying anywhere that freeways must have 10- to 12-foot shoulders, nor that they must have cable barriers if the median is small.

[tolbs17]

Freeways don't have to have 10-12 foot shoulders, but if the median is small, they have a cable barrier.

Says who?

Wikipedia.

Not that I'm seeing:  In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled-access_highway#United_States and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled-access_highway#Design, I don't see Wikipedia saying anywhere that freeways must have 10- to 12-foot shoulders, nor that they must have cable barriers if the median is small.

Thats for an INTERSTATE not a normal freeway.

[kphoger]

Freeways don't have to have 10-12 foot shoulders, but if the median is small, they have a cable barrier.

Says who?

Wikipedia.

Not that I'm seeing:  In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled-access_highway#United_States and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled-access_highway#Design, I don't see Wikipedia saying anywhere that freeways must have 10- to 12-foot shoulders, nor that they must have cable barriers if the median is small.

Thats for an INTERSTATE not a normal freeway.

No, that's not what you said.  In the complete post of yours that started this line of conversation, you specifically defined "freeways" as opposed to only Interstates specifically as having to have cable barriers in the median if the median is small.

Then, when we asked you where you were getting that information, you said it was Wikipedia.

Full post below:

Interstate standards has 10-12 feet shoulders on the right side, with fully controlled access.

Freeways don't have to have 10-12 foot shoulders, but if the median is small, they have a cable barrier. And yes, fully-controlled access too.

[tolbs17]

Freeways don't have to have 10-12 foot shoulders, but if the median is small, they have a cable barrier.

Says who?

Wikipedia.

Not that I'm seeing:  In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled-access_highway#United_States and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled-access_highway#Design, I don't see Wikipedia saying anywhere that freeways must have 10- to 12-foot shoulders, nor that they must have cable barriers if the median is small.

Thats for an INTERSTATE not a normal freeway.

No, that's not what you said.  In the complete post of yours that started this line of conversation, you specifically defined "freeways" as opposed to only Interstates specifically as having to have cable barriers in the median if the median is small.

Then, when we asked you where you were getting that information, you said it was Wikipedia.

Full post below:

Interstate standards has 10-12 feet shoulders on the right side, with fully controlled access.

Freeways don't have to have 10-12 foot shoulders, but if the median is small, they have a cable barrier. And yes, fully-controlled access too.

Well, that was just in my opinion.

[kphoger]

Then why did you claim it was Wikipedia's opinion?

[tolbs17]

Then why did you claim it was Wikipedia's opinion?

Cause, there is a difference between a freeway and one that is built to interstate standards.

[tolbs17]

22 in Bridgewater and Union have a "freeway" feel to it when driving on it. They are technically an expressway, but when driving on them, it has a freeway feel to it. Except going through North Plainfield where there's a few signals there that I wish were grade-separated.

This looks risky as hell. I wish there was a right turn lane.

[achilles765]

A couple here in Houston:
US 90 Alternate (South Main) from 610 to BW 8: interchanges, higher peed limit, yet a couple of at grade intersections that are RIRO
Memorial Drive from 45 to Shepherd: no at grade intersections, parkway feel, has one of the only full cloverleaf interchanges in the city at Waugh
Allen Parkway : basically the same as Memorial, except they added a signal at Taft so now its not continuously limited access.

[1995hoo]

West Virginia sometimes uses the word "freeway" to refer to higher-speed roads with at-grade intersections. You'll see a sign advising that the "freeway" is about to end. Two examples that readily come to mind are Corridor H eastbound approaching Wardensville and US-340 eastbound approaching Harpers Ferry. (Sorry, no Street View links–I'm typing on my iPad and the Google Maps app's "Share" button isn't working this morning.) Corridor H pretty much feels like a "freeway" despite having at-grade intersections. The relevant part of US-340 definitely does not.

[tolbs17]

https://www.wral.com/residents-fighting-proposed-u-s-64-expansion/5270347/

I miss this old project... I wish it got brought back because it looks VERY nice.

There was a youtube video about it but it's no longer available.

[kphoger]

This looks risky as hell. I wish there was a right turn lane.

How is that any riskier than the dozen business entrances just before there?